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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:16 am 
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tkalmus wrote:
fighting muskie wrote:
Out of the 3 Texas schools--Lamar, Sam Houston St, and Stephen F. Austin--are any of them ready to make the jump right now? I'm not really in the know about schools in Texas. I know that San Houston has been hot on the field lately and Lamar has decent attendance but I know very little about their facilities or finances.

I'd like to see them go East and take Georgia Southern, Appalachian St, Liberty, and James Madison. If WKU leaves I'd see if Delaware wanted in.

However, when you consider Karl Benson's track record as a sheepish conference commissioner I could very easily see him creating 9 fb/12 all sports hybrid league.


Sam Houston State has the best fan support and fb team right now (back to back NCG appearances '11/'12). Though they need some facility upgrades, they have the funds to do so. The administration is considering it but is no way as crazy about the idea as the fans are.
Wrong, Sam fan support sucks. Sam has made the FCS championship game 2 years in a row, Lamar football sucks, yet Lamar has much bigger attendance. 2nd, Sam admin wants FBS, fans does not.
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Stephen F Austin State has good fans too but the fb is down right now (just made back to back playoff appearances in '09/'10). They obviously need some facility upgrade but has less money available after splitting off from the Texas State Univeristy System and the administration doesn't seem to have any want to move up. However if SHSU goes SFA will try to jump ASAP, they don't care about much but they love the Battle of the Piney Woods game against SHSU.
SFA don't move up, Sam won't move up. SFA is not moving up.
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Lamar is the best market of the three and its administration is fully committed to FBS but the money (while more than SFA but less than SHSU) is not quite there yet. They've been upgrading/planning to upgrade facilities for the last few years but they have the least fan support of the three and the athletics aren't anything worth talking about.
How the heck does Lamar has the least fan support when Lamar leads the SLC in attendance, in all sports.
2nd, Lamar has the deepest pockets. Extremely deep pockets which is why Lamar can afford to move up while Sam and SFA can not.
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That being said, these schools were happy to be associated with each other and Texas St, UT-Arlington, and UT-San Antonio but now that those three are gone they've all grown some what uncomfortable in the Southland that's backfilled with D2 upgrades like Incarnate Word and Abeline Christian some non fb programs including Houston Baptist who just start fb to get the invite.

Lamar traditional rivals are La Tech, ULL, UNT, and Ark st. Not Sam or SFA.
Quote:

Add in that Central Arkansas is having budget issues as well as the entire state of Louisiana which was considering closing McNeese State, Nicholls and Northwestern State or possibly just moving them down to D2 and you can see why moving up to FBS may look better despite all the obsticles.

FYI while I don't think its feasible I also saw something on Southeastern Louisiana University moving up as a Sunbelt replacement for ULL if they get taken to CUSA and becoming UL-Hammond

SELA is not going Sunbelt in our life time. Take a look at SELA stadium size.

Lamar and Georgia Southern looks to be 2 slam dunks for SBC expansion.
NMSU and Mizz st could also get the call. App. st? I don't know.

Jax st, Liberty, Del, JMU, No...,


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:25 am 
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playa4life wrote:
Wrong, Sam fan support sucks. Sam has made the FCS championship game 2 years in a row, Lamar football sucks, yet Lamar has much bigger attendance. 2nd, Sam admin wants FBS, fans does not.

SFA don't move up, Sam won't move up. SFA is not moving up.

How the heck does Lamar has the least fan support when Lamar leads the SLC in attendance, in all sports.
2nd, Lamar has the deepest pockets. Extremely deep pockets which is why Lamar can afford to move up while Sam and SFA can not.

Lamar traditional rivals are La Tech, ULL, UNT, and Ark st. Not Sam or SFA.

SELA is not going Sunbelt in our life time. Take a look at SELA stadium size.

Lamar and Georgia Southern looks to be 2 slam dunks for SBC expansion.
NMSU and Mizz st could also get the call. App. st? I don't know.

Jax st, Liberty, Del, JMU, No...,

Sam's fans traveled to away games this year in droves since they only 3 three home games 1 against a D2 and another against the weakest SLC member. So yeah their attendence was low this year, but tickets to the Battle of the Piney Woods and the FCS championship sold at all time highs. Fan support does not directly correlate to attendence especially when you compare it to a school in a large market that gives away tickets when you order a pizza from Pizza Hut to fill the stadium, ntm Lamar charges less for tickets than Sam ($30 less for season tickets and they get 3 extra games and $20 less per individual) so obviously were not comparing apples to apples here. Sam's athletic department turned a 1 million dollar profit while Lamar's lost 2 million, and this is before increasing fb/titleIX scholarships.

Sam doesn't seem to want to move, SFA can't yet, therefor I think Lamar is the only option if the SBC wants to come back to TX.

You really think any of those school think of Lamar as their traditional rivals...ha that's like saying Texas is one of SMU rivals. And how in the world are you claiming UNT? I'll give that Lamar has history with ULL/AkSU but that's not a reason to get an invite to a conference.

Never said SELA was upgrading, I was just relaying something I read.

App St and Georgia Southern looks to be 2 slam dunks for SBC expansion.

Jax st, Liberty and JMU have all said they want to upgrade and are on the same level as Lamar.

Missouri State is not on the list, you could have learned that if you cared to read/attack anyone elses post besides mine.

Also another point I just left off but you always seem to neglect is that Lamar's athletics suck, and the SBC just added FCS upgrades South Alabama/Georgia State to its already watered down league and needs to be looking to add more power fb schools like Boise State and less like Idaho to offset the coming raid(s).

Boise had an FCS title and another title game apperance before upgrading, App St has 3 titles, GA So has 6 titles and 2 apperances, Sam has 2 apperances, UDel has a title and an apperance, JMU has a title too.

Heck just take a look at some of the FCS champs/championship game participants and you can clearly see a pattern.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FCS_Championship#History

UMass, Boise, Ark St, LA Tech, ULM, Marshall, Nevada, WKU...

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:53 pm 
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tkalmus wrote:
playa4life wrote:
Wrong, Sam fan support sucks. Sam has made the FCS championship game 2 years in a row, Lamar football sucks, yet Lamar has much bigger attendance. 2nd, Sam admin wants FBS, fans does not.

SFA don't move up, Sam won't move up. SFA is not moving up.

How the heck does Lamar has the least fan support when Lamar leads the SLC in attendance, in all sports.
2nd, Lamar has the deepest pockets. Extremely deep pockets which is why Lamar can afford to move up while Sam and SFA can not.

Lamar traditional rivals are La Tech, ULL, UNT, and Ark st. Not Sam or SFA.

SELA is not going Sunbelt in our life time. Take a look at SELA stadium size.

Lamar and Georgia Southern looks to be 2 slam dunks for SBC expansion.
NMSU and Mizz st could also get the call. App. st? I don't know.

Jax st, Liberty, Del, JMU, No...,

Sam's fans traveled to away games this year in droves since they only 3 three home games 1 against a D2 and another against the weakest SLC member. So yeah their attendence was low this year, but tickets to the Battle of the Piney Woods and the FCS championship sold at all time highs. Fan support does not directly correlate to attendence especially when you compare it to a school in a large market that gives away tickets when you order a pizza from Pizza Hut to fill the stadium, ntm Lamar charges less for tickets than Sam ($30 less for season tickets and they get 3 extra games and $20 less per individual) so obviously were not comparing apples to apples here. Sam's athletic department turned a 1 million dollar profit while Lamar's lost 2 million, and this is before increasing fb/titleIX scholarships.
Wrong again, Lamar was second to Mcneese in dollar profit. The remaining SLC schools were sub 1 million.
Quote:
Sam doesn't seem to want to move, SFA can't yet, therefor I think Lamar is the only option if the SBC wants to come back to TX.
Sam admin's want to move. Katfans are strongly against.
Quote:
You really think any of those school think of Lamar as their traditional rivals...ha that's like saying Texas is one of SMU rivals. And how in the world are you claiming UNT? I'll give that Lamar has history with ULL/AkSU but that's not a reason to get an invite to a conference.
Yes, ULL already supports Lamar moving to the SBC. Although not a traditional rival, Texas st is a second Lamar vote. I doubt Monroe would say no because of the close distant. That leaves Lamar's old long time conference mate, Ark st.
Lamar could be heading in March meeting with a 4 vote advantage
Quote:
Never said SELA was upgrading, I was just relaying something I read.

App St and Georgia Southern looks to be 2 slam dunks for SBC expansion.
yes, Georgia st. App st doesn't seem interested or ready or app st is very good with a secret.
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Jax st, Liberty and JMU have all said they want to upgrade and are on the same level as Lamar.
Those schools are east coast. SBC west will not take only eastern teams without a bridge to Texas st.
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Missouri State is not on the list, you could have learned that if you cared to read/attack anyone elses post besides mine.
I have a brain of my own. I don't let others think for me. Mizz st is not upgrading it's athletics because money grows on trees. Something is happening there, sbc or not.
Quote:
Also another point I just left off but you always seem to neglect is that Lamar's athletics suck, and the SBC just added FCS upgrades South Alabama/Georgia State to its already watered down league and needs to be looking to add more power fb schools like Boise State and less like Idaho to offset the coming raid(s).

Boise had an FCS title and another title game apperance before upgrading, App St has 3 titles, GA So has 6 titles and 2 apperances, Sam has 2 apperances, UDel has a title and an apperance, JMU has a title too.

Heck just take a look at some of the FCS champs/championship game participants and you can clearly see a pattern.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FCS_Championship#History

UMass, Boise, Ark St, LA Tech, ULM, Marshall, Nevada, WKU...

Lamar has a very good athletic department. Baseball top 25 a few seasons ago, MBB last year 25 wins and a trip to the NCAA although rebuilding this year and suck, WBB should be a post season team, Golf finish 3rd in the nation a few years ago, tennis and track is good. Lamar would challenge any in the SBC or CUSA commissioner cup. Lamar football needs some work. Your problem is you take the word of internet posters rather than researching for yourself.

Finally, TWC-Beaumont will be picking up Houston CSN. CSN will be airing Lamar games on tv in Beaumont and Houston. Benson and SBC is very interested.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:09 am 
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playa4life wrote:
Wrong again, Lamar was second to Mcneese in dollar profit. The remaining SLC schools were sub 1 million.
I can't find the link I was loking at this morning from my work CPU but this illustrates my point for now...
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/c ... 54955804/1
Details of average revenues and expenses at NCAA D-I public schools, 2006-2011:
Lamar University Southland $13,341,513 $13,341,523 Profit= $0
Sam Houston State Southland $11,196,466 $10,794,031 Profit= $402,435

And like I said SHSU played only 3 homes games meaning they got tons of body bag game money and another FCSNCG appearance which also means $$$.

playa4life wrote:
Sam admin's want to move. Katfans are strongly against.

Great so taking the word of message boards...BTW go look they aren't overly one way or another some are for and some against, they post thread about them getting mentioned with excitement and others about how they hope to stay in FCS a dominate...NTM their biggest front page'd thread is 35 replies so not exactly a great sample size. CNSBBS has plenty of Kat fan defending and supporting the move.

playa4life wrote:
Yes, ULL already supports Lamar moving to the SBC. Although not a traditional rival, Texas st is a second Lamar vote. I doubt Monroe would say no because of the close distant. That leaves Lamar's old long time conference mate, Ark st.
Lamar could be heading in March meeting with a 4 vote advantage

Those schools are east coast. SBC west will not take only eastern teams without a bridge to Texas st.

I'm sorry, when did they add another Texas school for UNT? Or even one within 300 miles? So why would they for Texas St? Where are they going to go? If CUSA calls they're gone.

Once again I think Lamar is still likely to get an invite over many other candidates but not for these minor reasons.

playa4life wrote:
I have a brain of my own. I don't let others think for me. Mizz st is not upgrading it's athletics because money grows on trees. Something is happening there, sbc or not.

Something is happening but its at least 5 if not 10 years away, so mentioning them as current Sun Belt candidate is wrong.

playa4life wrote:
Lamar has a very good athletic department. Baseball top 25 a few seasons ago, MBB last year 25 wins and a trip to the NCAA although rebuilding this year and suck, WBB should be a post season team, Golf finish 3rd in the nation a few years ago, tennis and track is good. Lamar would challenge any in the SBC or CUSA commissioner cup. Lamar football needs some work. Your problem is you take the word of internet posters rather than researching for yourself.

Personally I like college baseball and respect that Lamar has an okay program back in 2010 when they made a regional before losing the opening two to TCU/Baylor but that doesn't impress.

Lamar's last 25 wins season in men's bball was 1983-4, I'll assume you meant 23 wins which was in 2011-12 where they squeaked into the NCAA tourney by winning the SLC tourney (though not the conference) and were place in the play-in game which they lost by 12 points to Vermont.

I like most sports but WBB, golf, tennis and track do not belong in the conversation of conference realignment to any extent except whether a school simply HAS the same sports that a conference has. Competitiveness only really matter in FB/MBB/Baseball and niche sports like LAX/Hockey.

playa4life wrote:
Finally, TWC-Beaumont will be picking up Houston CSN. CSN will be airing Lamar games on tv in Beaumont and Houston. Benson and SBC is very interested.
That's great congrats, that huge for Lamar to get exposure but please don't insinuate that they picked it up for in order to get Lamar sports, as Comcast offers tons of teams inventory including (from their press release) "Arkansas, Houston, Lamar, LSU, McNeese State, New Mexico State, Rice, Sam Houston State, Texas A&M, and Texas A&M Corpus Christi. Other schools appearing on Comcast SportsNet Houston’s college basketball coverage includes Houston Baptist, Stephen F. Austin, UTEP, UTSA, and Texas State."

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:05 am 
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Lamar MBB is 3-24, who has the higher attendance?
Sam went to 2 national championship games. Who had the higher average attendance?
Ofcourse Sam fans traveled well to the NC, It was up the street in the Dallas area. A 2 hour drive. A virtual home game.

And I was counting after football returned to Lamar in 2010. Would Lamar not have a huge profit if they dropped the AD budget to Sam level.

BTW, Lamar baseball is 11-2 with a 3 out of 4 games win against PAC-12.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:14 pm 
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I went to the Texas A&M vs Sam Houston St. game and the Kats did not travel well to that one. It was an away game for Sam Houston St. and it was not a good showing for them. They got beat easily. That being said, I hear all kinds of things about Sam Houston St., who knows what is fact from fantasy! I think with them it is a wait and see policy. It would be great if they got the invite along with Appalachian St., Georgia Southern, and Lamar. However I think that the invites will go to New Mexico St., Appalachian St., Lamar, and Georgia Southern.

Appalachian St. - Ready to move up and is a successful FB program.
Georgia Southern - Same as above.
Lamar - Ready to move up, and is in a good position geographically.
New Mexico St. - Ready for an invite, and is already FBS.

The next four on the list should be (in no particular order) Sam Houston St., Missouri St., U. Tennessee - C., and Florida A&M.
Both lists of four give balance to the East-West regional format for a divisional split and this will get a CCG. Now we only have to wait for the SBC to get it's collective tail in gear and make some moves!


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:27 pm 
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I'm curious as to why we haven't heard an expansion announcement yet. Perhaps Georgia Southern and Appalachian St want to maintain their eligibility for this year's FCS post-season by delaying movement until after the season?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:31 pm 
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NorwichCat11 wrote:
I went to the Texas A&M vs Sam Houston St. game and the Kats did not travel well to that one. It was an away game for Sam Houston St. and it was not a good showing for them. They got beat easily. That being said, I hear all kinds of things about Sam Houston St., who knows what is fact from fantasy! I think with them it is a wait and see policy. It would be great if they got the invite along with Appalachian St., Georgia Southern, and Lamar. However I think that the invites will go to New Mexico St., Appalachian St., Lamar, and Georgia Southern.

Appalachian St. - Ready to move up and is a successful FB program.
Georgia Southern - Same as above.
Lamar - Ready to move up, and is in a good position geographically.
New Mexico St. - Ready for an invite, and is already FBS.

The next four on the list should be (in no particular order) Sam Houston St., Missouri St., U. Tennessee - C., and Florida A&M.
Both lists of four give balance to the East-West regional format for a divisional split and this will get a CCG. Now we only have to wait for the SBC to get it's collective tail in gear and make some moves!

The Katz returned less than 1K tickets (from what I remember reading) which while not greats, isn't horrible for an FCS team, and I don't think I've ever seen an FCS team sell out their allotments when playing the Longhorns in DKR over the last 15 years....

Back to the main topic, I think you picked 4 of the top choices, I'd also include Liberty and Sam in that list pushing it to 6.

The next 4 up to get it to a nice round top 10 are likely Jacksonville St (only Sun Belt would take but they already have 2 schools from Alabama), James Madison (just started exploring FBS), UT-Chattanooga (also just started), and Idaho as a fb only (though geography is horrendous).

Florida A&M, UDel, Missouri St, SFA, and YSU have all considered FBS but none have taken an active step in pursuing it recently. Florida A&M could be a Sun Belt candidate to replace the loses of FAU/FIU but as a HBU has had more recent interest in joining the SWAC. UDel thought about it but may only be encouraged to do so if a Northeastern FBS conference emerged with Buffalo, UMass, Temple, Marshall, Liberty, JMU, ODU, Charlotte, ECU, Army and Navy. SFA would be looking to move into the FBS if Sam ever jumps. YSU is always a MAC candidate right next to Kent St/Akron. And Missouri State just approved a big stadium upgrade but has not been pursuing FBS status and even turned down overtures from the Sun Belt when they needed school though now they have plenty of quality ones begging to get in, but they do have geography on their side as they'd fit in just about any nonAQ conference (former Big East, CUSA, MAC, SBC).

Still, I think its a mistake to call these viable candidates for this upcoming round of realignment, though most people didn't see Old Dominion as a viable candidate and they jumped to CUSA so I guess anything could happen.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:50 pm 
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fighting muskie wrote:
I'm curious as to why we haven't heard an expansion announcement yet. Perhaps Georgia Southern and Appalachian St want to maintain their eligibility for this year's FCS post-season by delaying movement until after the season?


There was a link back in Jan (though the local paper removed the story) about them waiting to see if the Big East would fall apart because if it did CUSA couldn't keep their current/incoming 14 members along with the 6 which might send some of their schools like MTSU, FAU, FIU, UNT back to them like BSU went back to the MWC.

Obviously even if the ACC got raided and UConn, Cincy, Temple, and USF all got ACC invites, those 6 schools would just return to CUSA, they'd raid CUSA for their better programs like Tulsa, So Miss, LA Tech, and Charlotte and wouldn't have to go back like Boise/SDSU did.

We can only guess that they are waiting on the Tulsa (and possibly SoMiss) invite, and trying to decide if CUSA will just take 1,2, 3 or possibly as many 4 teams (WKU, AkSU, ULL, GASt) so that they can deivise how to replace them by adding more teams in the West or East and possible divisions, etc.

They'll move soon enough, I expect we'll hear about an addition of two before May. At worst we'd at least see fb only invites to NMSU/Idaho if nothing else (no way do nothing with only 8 teams and a poacher at the door).

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:30 am 
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All indications are the BE FB conf (name TBD) will soon extend invitation to ECU for other sports when they are scheduled to move conferences, and invite Tulsa for all sports.
This will give them 11/12 once navy comes i for FB only in 2015.

CUSA will invite WKU to replace Tulsa as #14.

The SunBelt will then need 3 to get back to 12.
I happen to think Appy State / Georgia Southern are slam-dunks (but that is just MY opinion).
Then they would need one more to replace WKU.

Here I think the travel partner concept may come into play.
With Appy State / Georgia Southern - the Sunbelt will have:
2 in Texas
2 in Louisiana
2 in Alabama
2 in Georgia
WKU / MTSU / Appy State

They would ideally grab school #12 up in the VA / KY/ NC / SC/ TN area to help create 2 more travel pairs.
That might make James Madison the winner, as they could be paired with ASU, and WKU/MTSU could be paired.

Not sure what their deadline is. The 3 additions will DEFINITELY happen before June 30, 2013.
If they are going to try to expedite this for 2013 football, it's gotta happen REALLY soon,
in time for the 2013 schedules which are being formulated right now.i


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:34 am 
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sorry, I was forgetting the 2 in Arkansas - Arkansas State & UALR.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:49 pm 
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Sam has great admin., very good AD, good size but it lacks a market. This will keep Sam out of FBS.

Lamar has an entire market of more than 400k to itself. Lamar sits in a market bigger than ULL, ULM, Ark st, and BIG 12 Texas Tech Lubbock Market.

Advantage Lamar.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:28 pm 
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Tute,
If they loose Western Kentucky, it will take 5 to get to 12 and 3 will give them 10. At least in my funky math that's the answer I came up with! :D


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:57 am 
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Article out of Murfreesboro with comments from SBC Commish regarding league realignment who says SBC plans to "add additional members soon".Link at http://www.dnj.com/article/20130310/BLU ... ealignment


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:16 pm 
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Hopefully the Sun Belt keeps on moving and on track when it comes to find additional members to expand, but it has to be within the South Atlantic/Southeast regions. The obvious options should be finding those in the FCS level, if the conference wants to have division play for football (with a conference championship game), and to keep having divisions in mostly on all other sports it sponsors. I still believe that UALR has the possibility to re-instate football and find a stadium within its area. The same can be said for UT-Arlington.

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