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 Post subject: WAC Realignment
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2002 12:37 pm 
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Here's the starting point for WAC expansion/realignment issues:

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 Post subject: WAC Realignment
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2002 12:07 am 
I'll start this one, even though I am a bit biased.

Hawaii should be given a chance to move out of the WAC and join the Pac-10 for a few reasons. First, they have volleyball teams that can compete, their basketball teams are very good, and the football team is rising like a lion of Judah under June Jones.

Boise, meanwhile, is doing good under its own right. But if they had defeated Arkansas this year, they would have made a case of bailing out of the WAC. The next best thing would be the Mountain West, but even they can't seem to reach parity. Boise could try the Big XII, but they would have to make a financial overhaul.

Fresno, meanwhile, is in a bit of limbo. Sure, they've done well under Pat Hill. But even with a few wins over big-time opponents isn't good when you aren't dominant in your own conference. And a slump of bowl losses isn't helping, either. Same thing with La. Tech. Last year, they were good, but they too fell in a bowl game. This year, they aren't doing any better.

The other WAC teams are in worse shape, too. Rice, UTEP, Tulsa, SJSU, SMU, and Nevada need to improve on their stock if they want to get something.

Right now, the WAC's teams are stuck to the floor in terms of realigning. Hawaii has the best shot, but they need to get more big time wins. They have their chance, starting with the last three games of the regular season, against Cincy (winnable), Alabama (make-or-break game), and San Diego State (winnable, too).

Just my humble opinion.


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 Post subject: WAC Realignment
PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2002 6:24 am 
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If the WAC hadn't expanded to 16 schools a few years ago none of this geographic mess would have happened. But the conference has to move on and play the hand it's dealt. The expansion of Boise State made sense geographically but Louisiana Tech? Gimme a break. Five time zones of schools unfamiliar with each other. As a Fresno State fan I never get riled up when SMU, Rice or Louisiana Tech comes to town. Right now the WAC should consider realignment and expansion at the same time. At the current membership of 10 it should increase to 12 to create a football championship game. La Tech should leave and join the Sun Belt or CUSA. Bring in Utah State, Idaho and New Mexico State. This doesn't seem like a possibility though since USU recently accepted an invitation to the Sun Belt with New Mexico already in and Idaho going the same way. If the WAC officials had used common sense in expansion the conference would make a lot more geographic sense right now. Not to mention travel costs would be reduced. Two 6-team divisions:

Western Division Eastern Division
Fresno State Utah State
San Jose State New Mexico State
Nevada UTEP
Hawaii Tulsa
Boise State SMU
Idaho Rice



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 Post subject: WAC Realignment
PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2002 4:19 pm 
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that was my dream wac lineup too. la tech belongs regionally with the sbc. having boise state and idaho in the same division reinforces rivalries. ditto new mexico state and utep, which are only a few miles apart.

the problem with the current wac is that it is a patchwork of schools from defunct conferences. only a handful of natural rivalries. san jose and fresno were in the pcaa way back when, before joining the wac in the 90's. smu and rice were the sisters of the poor from the swc (after smu received the death penalty, that is). hawaii and utep were part of the original wac, before it expanded, but were never rivals in the traditional sense. tulsa and louisiana tech were independents. boise was 1-aa, then joined the big west, ditto nevada.

usa, on the other hand, gave its conference a few years' head start to initiate rivalries among the original six members, then added teams every other year or so. it helps that they were already basketball rivals. with the exception of adding army, which still makes no sense to me (except the new york tv market, if you can find the games on), they've made every right move. i'm afraid the current lineup of the wac won't ever gel the way usa's did.


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 Post subject: WAC Realignment
PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2002 7:37 pm 
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[quote author=Hachiko link=board=general&thread=1036345056&start=1#0 date=1036732021]I'll start this one, even though I am a bit biased.

"Hawaii should be given a chance to move out of the WAC and join the Pac-10 for a few reasons. "


Nothing is blocking Hawaii from being "given a chance to move out of the WAC and into the Pac-10" except the ten presidents in the PAC10 who are happier with the status quo of their conference than any other group of presidents in any other conference in America. I suspect Hawaii, Fresno State, Nevada and Boise State will head either piecemeal or all at once into the MWC. It is likely as good as any of us can expect. I would definately support UH to the PAC10 but I sincerly doubt they would take you. Good luck though....


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 Post subject: WAC Realignment
PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2002 9:11 pm 
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the pac ten has been talking about expansion since 1995, but they have been focussed on teams like texas and colorado. good luck there.

they might expand, eventually. the conference is more conservative than others -- it was the last major conference to add a basketball tournament. it has taken snubs at the hands of the bcs twice now, and depending on what happens to usc, it could be three. and still no threats of leaving. plus, they like the balance their conference offers: 2 nocal teams, 2 socal, 2 arizona, 2 oregon, 2 washington. hawaii is a bad fit for that reason.

eventually they will expand, within a year of big ten expansion. but they will more likely take mwc or big 12 teams than wac teams.

once that domino falls, it will be a scramble to realign all the mid-majors for the magic 12-team conference. and right now, the mwc has the edge over the wac, and would be the likely destination for boise, hawaii, fresno and one other.


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 Post subject: WAC Realignment
PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2003 6:02 pm 
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The main reason why the WAC is unstable, IMO, is because there's only 10 teams. The geographic spread of the conference members is a problem, but it can be alleviated (partially solved) somewhat if the conference expanded to 12 teams, IMO. The big thing about expansion is who will be selected? If the West WAC teams have their way, they'll go for two western members. If the EWAC teams have their way, they'll go for two EWAC members. The two sides will need to compromise for the conference to survive. Here's the teams that could get WAC membership, IMO:

Utah State: has long standing relationships w/ many WAC members.

UL-Lafayette: Has been mentioned as a WAC candidate before. Hiring of Ricky Bustle from VT definitely indicates something is up at ULL.

North Texas: Improving facilities, but will the EWAC teams be willing to let the Mean Green in?

Idaho: perfect fit for this conference, but does anyone want the Vandals to stay out of the WAC??


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 Post subject: WAC Realignment
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2003 1:16 pm 
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DawgNDuckFan,

The WAC is not unstable because it has only ten teams. The WAC has stability problems due to geography, i.e. it is really two conferences. The west consists of FSU, BSU, UN, UH, and SJSU and the east being Rice, LTU, SMU, Tulsa and UTEP (although UTEP could slide either way). This creates divisiveness in voting and interests. It also makes the WAC ripe for predation by other conferences (MWC, CUSA). This puts pressure on the eWAC schools to look out for themselves and possibly seek an alliance with the more regional and solvent of the SBC schools since they must have some concern that the wWAC schools covet the more geographically sensible MWC and would likely join if invited.

If the WAC were to go to 12 teams you have hit upon the most likely candidates but all of them have their drawbacks.

USU would be the most favorable candidate but since the WAC has repeatly spurned them and since the WAC is seen as unstable, i.e. if say the wWAC teams left to create a twelve team MWC (say FSU, UH, BSU and UN leave in any combination) USU may be no better off than they are now except they will have alienated the SBC.

UI is not likely to remain D1A IMO and even if they do they have no market, no fan base, are difficult to get to and they have facilities that are middle of the pack in D1AA.

ULL may be the best bet for the eWAC as they have decent facilities, wouldn't mind being with LTU and finally appear to be committed to improvement. They would be a tough sell to the wWAC without a comparable western companion.

NTU would have concerns similar to USU and they also show no inclination to join the WAC.

NMSU has a waning interest in the WAC due to reasons similar to USU and NTU plus they have been blocked in the past by UTEP.

Montana would be a good candidate since they already make all of the D1A criteria and would be competetive now. There seems to be very little impetus there for moving up to D1A and they may be politically tied to MSU.

PSU, also of the BSC, has decent facilities and a great market. They have yet to show they can consisitently capture a significant proportion of that market, however.

Other candidates, in the east at least, would be ArkSU and UL-M from the SBC. ASU has an iffy but possible chance to remain D1A while UL-M seems destined to return to the SLC.

If SJSU does not make it in D1A (and their chances are as good or better than half of the SBC and a good chunk of the MAC) then one of the above western schools will be pursued if the MWC takes two or less teams from the WAC. If CUSA takes a team and the MWC stand pat or takes only one team, look for the WAC to invite an eastern and a western team from the above list. The sad part is, those teams might just say no thanks.


Last edited by bronco85 on Thu Mar 13, 2003 10:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: WAC Realignment
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2003 8:59 pm 
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Quote:
DawgNDuckFan,

The WAC is not unstable because it has only ten teams. The WAC has stability problems due to geography, i.e. it is really two conferences. The west consists of FSU, BSU, UN, UH, and SJSU and the east being Rice, LTU, SMU, Tulsa and UTEP (although UTEP could slide either way). This creates divisiveness in voting and interests. It also makes the WAC ripe for predation by other conferences (MWC, CUSA).
If the WAC were to go to 12 teams you have hit upon the most likely candidates but all of them have their drawbacks.

But wouldn't having divisions get rid of this problem?
Still, if what you say is true, the conference may not last long anyway, and all of the MWC/CUSA/Sunbelt pundits will have been correct on the WAC's future. (Double serving of crow, please ;D :'( )

Quote:

Montana would be a good candidate since they already make all of the D1A criteria and would be competetive now. There seems to be very little impetus there for moving up to D1A and they may be politically tied to MSU.

I don't think the Griz are politically tied w/ MSU. Could be wrong, but I don't think so. You are correct though that there seems to be very little impetus for going IA. Let's just say they're going through the GSU (Georgia Southern) syndrome (i.e. they want to be the big fish in a little pond). However, there used to be some impetus for going IA on the MSU campus. I don't know what happened with that.

Quote:

PSU, also of the BSC, has decent facilities and a great market. They have yet to show they can consisitently capture a significant proportion of that market, however.

The Vikes are on working on that, but the problem is that my Ducks as well as the Beavers have lion's share of the Portland market. There has been some talk of merging PSU w/ the Oregon Institute of Technology near Klamath Falls. The merged campus would be in Portland. For more info, I'd like to recommend www.oregonlive.com, the Portland Vikings forum.

Quote:

If SJSU does not make it in D1A (and their chances are as good or better than half of the SBC and a good chunk of the MAC) then one of the above western schools will be pursued if the MWC takes two or less teams from the WAC. If CUSA takes a team and the MWC stand pat or takes only one team, look for the WAC to invite an eastern and a western team from the above list. The sad part is, those teams might just say no thanks.

Here's a horror story for Spartan fans. Let's say that SJSU survives the IA cuts, but the WAC still splits up. With a majority of the WWAC teams headed for the MWC and eWAC teams headed for the Sunbelt or a SW conference, where's SJSU going to go???


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 Post subject: WAC Realignment
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2003 10:30 am 
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ULL may be the best bet for the eWAC as they have decent facilities, wouldn't mind being with LTU and finally appear to be committed to improvement. They would be a tough sell to the wWAC without a comparable western companion.


The UL President wouldn't let athletic fund raising compete with academic fund raising until the $100 million drive for academics was completed. In other words, the athletic department was forbidden to hit the big money people who contributed to academics for contributions.

The $100 million goal has been reached, so start judging UL's commitment to athletics starting now. There is an immediate $10 million drive going on for athletics that will continue after the first goal is reached. The long-time offensive coordinator at Virginia Tech during the days of Jim Drunkenmiller and Michael Vick was hired last year as head football coach and was given a five-year contract. The university president said in a radio interview last Thanksgiving that he stays in contact with the WAC and CUSA, so he knows what's going on and probably knows what realignment is available out there, what is not, and if waiting a little longer could result in something better.

The WAC will become a better league if Hawaii leaves, because if they don't leave, others will because they can't afford being in the conference. If this occurs they could build a 12-team all-sports league so they can go to East and West divisions and cut costs even more.

I've been asking people that know more than I do for some "scoop" for some time now, and nothing is forthcoming. I sure hope UL can find itself in a better situation either in the Sun Belt, the WAC, or a new league, although the latter will cost its members automatic bids.

http://forums.delphiforums.com/SBCsports/start


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 Post subject: WAC Realignment
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2003 6:31 pm 
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Quote:


The UL President wouldn't let athletic fund raising compete with academic fund raising until the $100 million drive for academics was completed. In other words, the athletic department was forbidden to hit the big money people who contributed to academics for contributions.

CalCajun, it sounds like your president is very dedicated to academic fundraising. Will he show this same dedication to athletic fundraising (i.e. banning all academic fundraising now until athletics hits its goal??)



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 Post subject: WAC Realignment
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2003 10:39 am 
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CalCajun, it sounds like your president is very dedicated to academic fundraising. Will he show this same dedication to athletic fundraising (i.e. banning all academic fundraising now until athletics hits its goal??)


He has got to be in his mid-70s by now and has been on the job 30 years. I think he is a sports fan, and now that he took an academic fund that had $400,000 and increased it to $100 million, I think he probably wants to get UL in good shape sports-wise and set up in a good conference situation before he leaves. We hope his successor is very supportive of athletics.

http://forums.delphiforums.com/SBCsports/start


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 Post subject: WAC Realignment
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2003 10:51 am 
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Hawaii should be given a chance to move out of the WAC and join the Pac-10 for a few reasons. First, they have volleyball teams that can compete, their basketball teams are very good, and the football team is rising like a lion of Judah under June Jones.


Hawaii needs to get out of the WAC because the current members can't afford the trips, even if they help with the cost.

My guess is that UH will wind up in the Mountain West. If they eventually become members of the Pac-10, it will be because they took the intermediate step to the MWC and excelled.

Boise is doing a great job playing their way into prominence.


http://forums.delphiforums.com/SBCsports/start


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 Post subject: WAC Realignment
PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2004 8:05 am 
I really hope the MWC administration gets their $hit together soon and realizes what a great opportunity we have right now to destroy the Western Athletic Conference.

UTEP will be accepting a CUSA invite in a matter of days. As soon as UTEP accepts that invite it will be crucial that the Mountain West make a bold move to completely destroy the WAC!

Fresno State, Nevada and Boise State should be offered immediate MWC-12 invites the second that UTEP accepts the bid to CUSA-12.

Our main competition the WAC would be absolutely destroyed if that happened, they would be left with Hawaii, Louisiana Tech and bunch of dead weight in between. The WAC would not be able to survive the losses of Fresno State, Nevada, Boise State and UTEP,.... that would be the end of the WAC.

Hawaii would have to go independent in Football.

San Jose State would drop Football and join the Big West.

Utah State, New Mexico State and Louisiana Tech would be forced to go back to the Sunbelt with their tails between their legs.

This a strategic move that the Mountain West leadership must make to secure our spot as a Western Power for the next 50+ years! This is a critical time in the history of College Sports and if we could eliminate the WAC from existence it would do wonders to help the future chances for the Mountain West in all sports!

We must become the MWC-12 right now!

UTEP leaving the WAC and joining CUSA is a major blow to the stability of the WAC. The WAC is ready to be destroyed and the MWC leaders must have the guts to do what has to be done.

These moves must be made for the long term good of the Mountain West, if we take a hit financially in the short term that is fine because we know we will make it up over the long haul.

Adding three schools like Fresno State, Boise State and Nevada may not be something that helps the Mountain West today but it is without a doubt what needs to be done to secure our seat at the BCS table tomorrow.

The Mountain West must make bold moves to secure our future. We must lock up the Western part of the United States so that only two conferences exist out here (PAC-10 and MWC-12), this will guarantee us a spot at the table within 15-20 years. The West is growing at an unbelievable rate and will continue to grow faster than the rest of the country, long term this is good news for the PAC-10 and MWC-12 because it means we will have more recruits available to choose from and to stack our conferences with. It is only a matter of time until the MWC-12 and PAC-10 would completely dominate the collegiate sports world. That is why the WAC must be eliminated, no matter what it takes it must be accomplished. We do not need the WAC sticking around, growing stronger and becoming our competition. The WAC shouldn't even exist.

The MWC-12 could host a Football Championship game in a new Football Stadium that will be built in San Diego California. This MWC-12 Championship may not be a huge success from day one but over time as we build the tradition it will grow and become a great source of revenue for this conference. This Championship game is something that has to be built over time, right now we are wasting year after year of not building this great tradition while other Conferences are only getting stronger and making more and more money.

A MWC-12 Basketball Tournament could become a huge money maker for this conference over time also. It isn't going to sellout 20,000 per game in the first year but if we built the Tournament it wouldn't be long before each of the MWC-12 schools would be bringing 2,000 or 3,000 fans each year and the Tournament would become a huge success! I am talking standing room only for people to attend the event. This won't happen overnight but must be built, each year we waste a great opportunity to build stronger rivalries and stronger Conference Championships.

Imagine Football rivalry weekend at the end of November for the MWC-12 with:

MWC Rivalry Weekend
BYU vs. Utah
Fresno State vs. SDSU
Colorado State vs. Wyoming
Air Force vs. Boise State
New Mexico vs. TCU
UNLV vs. Nevada

We could build rivalry weekend into a great tradition for this conference but that isn't going to happen unless we make the bold move to 12 teams and kill off the annoying WAC!

We without a doubt want to improve our Mountain West Conference image. The way to do that is by investing in the future and making bold moves that will secure us a place at the table, not today but maybe tomorrow. To do that we must lock up the Western part of the United States so that only two major conferences will exist out here.... The PAC-10 and MWC-12!

The 12 of us need to work together to build a great conference, otherwise alone we are going to all crumble. The MWC could be great if it was willing to invest in the future, if it keeps living in the past or is afraid to fight for what is rightfully ours.... we will die a slow death. That is what is happening now, a slow painful death into nothingness.

Kill the WAC Now!

MWC-12

Pacific Division
BYU
Utah
Fresno State
San Diego State
UNLV
Nevada

Mountain Division
Air Force
Boise State
Colorado State
Wyoming
New Mexico
TCU

Grow some balls Thompson! Do what needs to be done for our future.


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 Post subject: WAC Realignment
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2004 9:28 am 
Hey RR, you sound a little threatened with the WAC. It looks like the WAC gives the MWC a run for its money. Looking at the new members coming in, they also have been rivals between the past WAC and the MWC and have been successful providing a great game between both. Yes, the west is stronger with 3 conferences that can be competitive. Let the west stabilize and prosper!


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