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 Post subject: CUSA Realignment
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2002 11:52 pm 
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Ok, I will.


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 Post subject: CUSA Realignment
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2002 8:45 am 
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Until things start to go crazy around 2006, I'd love to see Marshall and UCF added to the mix. Marshall would have to face some problems with its other sports programs, but from a football-only perspective I think C-USA would garner much more attention. The numbers in Florida would certainly jump up. If C-USA is thinking long-term, maybe SMU would be a better addition than Marshall, but if C-USA wants its football programs to generate money, bad teams in large markets won't help much. Adding USF, and later UCF and Marshall, would allow C-USA to attract viewers (at least in Florida) year-round. If these teams were brought in, someone would have to be dumped. I like Army, but they bring down the product on the field. If Navy was also in the conference it might be a different story. If UCF and Marshall come in, an East/West split might work better:

West
1. Marshall
2. TCU
3. Cincinnati
4. Louisville
5. Memphis
6. Houston

East
1. South Florida
2. Central Florida
3. Southern Miss
4. East Carolina
5. UAB
6. Tulane

UCF and USF could build a rivalry in-state, garnering increasing interest in the Orlando and Tampa markets, and if USF continues it's rise, C-USA would have the potential for a title game between Marshall and USF every year.


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 Post subject: CUSA Realignment
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2003 9:57 pm 
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C-USA needs a school that can pull the "Big Bucks" from backers and alumni. A team that is building a NEW football stadium. A team with a rich tradition. And that school is SMU, SMU, SMU, SMU.....

C-USA does not need a "cash-strapped" school like fla tech (see ucf), with NO fan support or corporate support or rich tradition.

North Division:
Cincinnati
Louisville
Memphis
Army
ECU
UAB

South Division:
TCU
SMU
USF
Houston
Tulane

Much nicer and cleaner.....
USM


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 Post subject: CUSA Realignment
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2003 11:20 pm 
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Sorry TyBul have to agree with AccNole2 on this one.

Not only would UCF and Marshall bring a new rivalry to the conference it would bring two very good football programs.

Conf USA should try what the Big East wont and that is go to 16 teams for all sports. Football with 12 and basketball with 16 will work. Every basketball team could play one game for 15 with one other round robin game (i.e Louisville/Memphis could play home and home).

This would be the best if the conference can not get Army and Navy.


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 Post subject: CUSA Realignment
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2003 4:16 pm 
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i think that ucf is a good fit for usa, but not marshall. ucf may have a fledgling football program, but it is in a major tv market (orlando), and opens usa up to further recruiting in the state of florida (south florida will do likewise). remember, this conference used to be called the metro -- nearly all its schools are in major metropolitan areas (well, mid-major, at least). houston, new orleans, dallas-ft. worth, cincinnati, memphis, etc. marshall is in the middle of nowhere. it doesn't add a tv market, and it doesn't open up recruiting. while both the football and basketball programs are superior at marshall, it's about recruiting, visibility and dollars.

army likes its affliliation with the patriot league. speaking of which, feinstein's book on the patriot league is a great read.


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 Post subject: CUSA Realignment
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2003 10:39 am 
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sbro, disagree with your assessment of TV markets. TV market size is the most over rated factor in conference expansion. Surprising Marshall comes from a larger TV market than perceived. Thier market is in the top 50 and is larger that East Carolina and Southern Miss. Conf USA may pass up on Marshall for other reasons, however, TV market will not be one. I can't remember the last time I saw a Houston or SMU game on TV. Marshall was on the tube many times this season.

The Big East teams have far larger markets than any other conference in the land. We all know that Temple is leaving the conferece due to support. Guess what, Temple comes from one of the largest TV markets in the country.

College football is all about fan support. If a college team has fans that travel well to away games and bowl, this is much more important that the market location of the school. For the most part the SEC comes from smaller markets than Conf USA, however which confence has the CBS national TV contact.
Marshall would help to fill the stadiums of Cincy, Louisville, East Carolina, and maybe Memphis. Fans in the stands bring in dollars and college football needs lot of dollars to support the team and conference.


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 Post subject: CUSA Realignment
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2003 4:54 pm 
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Quote:
sbro, disagree with your assessment of TV markets. TV market size is the most over rated factor in conference expansion. Surprising Marshall comes from a larger TV market than perceived. Thier market is in the top 50 and is larger that East Carolina and Southern Miss. Conf USA may pass up on Marshall for other reasons, however, TV market will not be one. I can't remember the last time I saw a Houston or SMU game on TV. Marshall was on the tube many times this season.

The Big East teams have far larger markets than any other conference in the land. We all know that Temple is leaving the conferece due to support. Guess what, Temple comes from one of the largest TV markets in the country.

College football is all about fan support. If a college team has fans that travel well to away games and bowl, this is much more important that the market location of the school. For the most part the SEC comes from smaller markets than Conf USA, however which confence has the CBS national TV contact.
Marshall would help to fill the stadiums of Cincy, Louisville, East Carolina, and maybe Memphis. Fans in the stands bring in dollars and college football needs lot of dollars to support the team and conference.


I remember reading somewhere that Marshall had a piece of the Washington, D.C. market. 8-)


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 Post subject: CUSA Realignment
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2003 5:48 pm 
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There are 2 possibilities with C-USA.

1) There has been alot of bitterness between the football and non-football schools in C-USA. They're suffering a bit from the same problems the old 16 team WAC had. C-USA is simply too large. There has been talk about a new 8-team all-sports league from the southern "metro" schools, that would look like this:

METRO SOUTH

Louisville
Cincy
South Florida
Memphis
Tulane
UAB
Houston
TCU

In this scenario, East Carolina, Southern Miss, UCF, Marshall, Temple, Army, Navy, and Troy State, and possibly another MAC school, would form a new all-sports league. The current C-USA basketball schools could easily find homes in other leagues (Horizon League or MVC, and for Charlotte the CAA or possibly A-10 to replace Temple). There is also the possibility of the 8 Big East football schools (including UCONN) breaking away - in which case ECU and Southern Miss would be natural fits to joing with them.

2) Scenario 2 - C-USA stays as they are, and adds a 12th Football school. Only one option, really: Temple. Marshall is on shaky ground with the NCAA, and could face serious sanctions soon. Despite all of their recent success, they very rarely sell out their small stadium. They are a poor fit for C-USA. In fact, they've already been turned down by C-USA in the past.

UCF is not even an option, as long as USF is in the league. USF would never allow UCF in C-USA.

Temple fans are already assuming that they will be in C-USA when their Big East tenure ends.



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 Post subject: CUSA Realignment
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2003 8:58 pm 
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One scenrio is that CUSA or what ever they call the new conference may look like this after Notre Dame goes to the Big 10 and Boston College, Syracuse, and Maimi goes to the ACC.

1. Temple
2. Marshall
3. Cincinnati
4. Louisville
5. Memphis
6. East Carolina
7. South Florida
8. Va Tech
9. West Virginia
10. Pittsburgh

Basketball will still be strong with Temple, Cincinnati, Louisville, and Memphis.

Va Tech, Pittsburgh, Marshall, West Virginia, Louiscille, East Carolina, and South Florida will allow this group to replace the Big East in the BSC.



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 Post subject: CUSA Realignment
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2003 11:02 pm 
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West Virginia and Marshall will never be in a league together, I promise you that :) If there are two schools that hate each other more in America, I don't know what they might be.... WVU would never allow Marshall into such a league. But the ACC will not be adding any Big East schools, so it's not an issue. The Carolina schools, which run the conference, do not want any expansion.


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 Post subject: CUSA Realignment
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2003 11:34 pm 
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Hey guys new guy here,

I don't see a new all sports league being formed without Southern Miss. In Football we have a fairly large following on national tv, atleast as good as TCU and Louisville, and we have fairly good attendance for a mid major. The main prolbem with CUSA is that it is too large and does not allow for rivlaries to form. A new allsports league formed out of the ashes of CUSA should include - TCU USF Tulane Memphis Louisville Cincy Southern Miss SMU Houston UCF Marshall and Tulsa. This is assuming the WAC will die which is all but certian. East Division is Louisville, Cincy, USF, UCF, Marshall, Memphis. West Division - TCU Tulane Southern Miss Tulsa Houston SMU. You can sub Rice for Tulsa but Tulsa makes more sense due to Basketball RPI. This conference isnt too large and would allow for geographic rivalries to form. Now this is just my opinion but trust me if any league was formed from current NON BCS members without Southern Miss for football it would be a big mistake. I would like to hear you guys ideas on this. Plus I really like the Idea of Southern Miss getting picked up by the Big East and we are currently planning to upgrade our sport facilities hopefully this will make us more attractive to the Big East or very slim chance the ACC.


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 Post subject: CUSA Realignment
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2003 5:09 pm 
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Wilkie01, I like your 10 team conference idea, however, the ACC is going to remain at 9 forever and the Big East may have 9 football teams after 2007. The Notre Dame 2007 football scchedule has four Big 10 teams (Penn State, Mich, Mich State, Purdue) and no BE teams.

Could this be a blessing in disguise. BCS contract ends 2006, Big East football contract ends 2007.

Louisville would fit very nicly in the west division of the Big East. The ACC and Big East would each have 9 football teams for balance.

Let me guess on which idea you would prefer?


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 Post subject: CUSA Realignment
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2003 12:17 am 
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Lash,

I hope Louisville is in the Big East soon or the ACC. My 10 team conference would only happen
, if Big East football gets raided by the ACC.


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 Post subject: CUSA Realignment
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2003 2:30 pm 
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tybull,

What have you heard about SMU? Are they really pushing to return to the big leagues again? If there's a real chance they'll start winning, then yeah, SMU would definitely be great for C-USA. There's tons of money, fan support, and ultimately national appeal there if they win again. There's no doubt that a few winning season would bring in a very large market share in Texas. The TCU SMU match-up would be really interesting.

I think UCF may be a bit like the Atlanta falcons. Prove to the fans that you will win and put a good product on the field with some appealing match-ups, and "they will come." But as soon as they start losing, no one will show up. The fan interest in Orlando would definitely be fickle, but that part of Florida is football crazy, and Floridians as well as new arrivals from the midwest will probably tune in if the local team starts playing and beating some name teams. I appreciate the competitiveness and physicality of MAC football, but half of the league is being kept afloat by support from the Big 10 schools. If they don't even draw a crowd in the midwest, NO ONE will come to see them down here. C-USA would be a huge step up (however ingracious UCF might be to the MAC by leaving).

I do agree that if UCF doesn't materialize as a solid football program, they'd be a total dud.

sbro,

I think C-USA has to consider the wisdom of going purely for major markets. C-USA badly leads schools that will draw national interest. Right now Marshall is the only potential member that might lure a fan not otherwise interested in C-USA to tune in. Marshall is also a large tv draw regionally, though admittedly that doesn't deliver a major single tv market. I think C-USA, at least in terms of football, needs to seriously debate the wisdom of adding major market teams that, well, stink. Is Temple really gonna deliver the Philly market? In basketball, maybe, but who in Philly wants to watch the Owls get pounded by So Miss or ECU? Adding Marshall would be a lot like adding Va Tech. Outstanding fan support, a name team, good tv numbers regionally, and success on the football field. I don't think C-USA will ever take a step up without making it's match-ups more appealing and investing in programs that may reach BCS caliber.

ChrisG,

I like the southern metro idea. If the conference splits along basketball/football lines it'd make more sense. It'd probably be better to cater to the southern football fan-base as well to develop some heated rivalries. C-USA is a tough sell on the the southern football fans with outlier teams like Cincinnati.

Does USF have enough clout to keep UCF out? It's interesting that Miami is pretty friendly with UCF, but USF isn't. Maybe they think there's only room for one more big time Florida team?

Sooner or later, the ACC football/basketball division will become a serious problem. If UVA or Maryland ever slip in to the FSU/Clemson/Ga Tech camp, the conference might slip. I think Maryland in particular would be a great fit in the BE.





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 Post subject: CUSA Realignment
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2003 3:38 pm 
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If CUSA would quit farting around ( ::) ) and expand, they would find that several rivalries would come about, and things would be just fine. I've heard the song and dance about U of L wanting out of CUSA into the BE, but I just don't see it happening. I think Syracuse would have some major issues with them being in the BE and when was the last time ND and UL hooked up for anything?? The Big East wants and needs Notre Dame badly. UL is more of an afterthought.
Now on the issue of expansion, I think Marshall would be the way to go. Marshall is another VT in the making, and the NCAA has been biased as of late. (see all of the stuff Alabama is accused of. Some of it is true, but a lot of it is false, IMO. Nothing more than a witch hunt orchestrated by the University of Tennessee.) SMU is ok, but they wouldn't be my first choice. Navy wants no part of CUSA and wants in the Big East. Unlike UL, Navy has two things that the BE would really go after:
1. prior history w/ ND. (BE could use Navy as a lure to get ND in the conference)
2. well-respected, national program that gets a lot of press.
Enough on the BE, and on with CUSA expansion.
I don't mind seeing SMU replace UAB. If SMU starts to put together a respectable following (something along the lines of what GT has will suffice), they would be a good addition. UAB really would be a better fit in the Sunbelt.
CUSA needs to really hang onto Army, because Army may hold the keys to getting CUSA in the BCS. You never know.


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