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 Post subject: CUSA Realignment
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2003 8:22 pm 
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I can see why C-USA would want Temple (a chunk, though it seems to me very small, of the Philly market), but as football only? Wow. I still think they'd be better off bringing in Marshall.


I agree but the rumor I am hearing is full membership.


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 Post subject: CUSA Realignment
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2003 11:37 pm 
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Hello all,

I would like to see if the admistrators could start a new thread based upon what could happen to the teams not usually considered for expansion by the BE and ACC if CUSA falls apart. I have personally thought about this a great deal being a Southern Miss fan and knowing geographically that we might be a great fit for either the ACC or the BE. My best guess is that if either were to pick us up it would be the ACC, we do have a little history with them as we applied to be a initial member back in 1953. I do not know why we did not make it, I think it maybe because we were not a full university at that time. We did not get that honor till the early sixties.

Anyways, I believe if CUSA fell apart and the MWC raided the WAC the following scenario could take place. With this realignment several good teams would find themselves out of a confernces. Most notably TCU Houston Southern Miss Tulane SMU Rice La Tech UTEP Tulsa you could even bring in ULL from the Sunbelt. Now what you have here is a very good regional conferences. you have 5 Texas teams *great for developing rivalries, 3 Louisiana Teams and 1 from Mississippi. I know this would probably never be a BCS conference but the potential is there. I believe this conference with these Teams is atleast the equal to the MWC WAC and MAC (I do consider CUSA one step ahead of the MWC seeing as we win the Liberty Bowl have a decent tv contract and have notable basketball). Any ideas on this, think we could start a thread.


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 Post subject: CUSA Realignment
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2003 9:48 am 
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Apart from Colorado State's out of conference success, I agree with your comparison of the listed teams to the MWC.

What you're suggesting is similar to an idea I was pushing on the Sunbelt Realignment forum. It's my feeling that sooner or later C-USA will have to split or totally disintegrate. If the BE is only interested in one of these teams (Louisville I'd guess), I'd suggest including Memphis and possibly UAB (if they stay afloat) in your conference, then you'd have 12 members (if you wanted that many), and could split into Delta and Plains divisions. You'd probably have Arkansas St. and North Texas as options as well.

As far as starting a thread on which of these teams woudl be snapped up by the BE and/or ACC, I think you can just go to the main board and click start a new thread. Apologies to the administrator if this is not correct.

I think the BE, depending on what's going on with Notre Dame, would take a serious look at Louisville, ECU, So. Miss, and maybe Army. Army would just be for the potential benefits of having both Army and Navy in the same conference (I doubt they'd go for it). Louisville seems like th eonly solid fit for the BE which would conribute in both sports and which would not generate any major objections. So Miss is probably the only option among the deep south members. A bit of a stretch regionally, but it'd be interesting to see how they'd fare in a major conference where they face Miami every year. Recruiting might surpass what's going on at Ole Miss right now (which is scary). I think many of the former C-USA teams in the southern region cold potentially find a home in the Big 12, if there were room, or, if the Big 12 ever breaks apart, in a reformed SWC.

TCU is just too much of a geographic stretch for the BE, but if they keep laying football at this level, the Big 12 will have to be interested. USF will probably be a major success in C-USA, but I doubt that Miami would allow then into the BE, too much of a recruiting threat. They'd be an excellent team to have in a new non-BCS conference of southern teams. I don't know if they could find a home anywhere else, unless FSU and the pro football ACC schools gain control of decision-making in the ACC and they decide to add a Florida team (no doubt to kill Miami in recruiting). I already think of Marshall as a C-USA team, though that may never happen. At any rate, if they do join, I think they'd lobby to move up into the ACC or BE. They'd have abetter shot at the BE, because the only West Va (as far as I know) would have any major objection to them joining. But that might be enough to keep them out. There's no way the ACC would let them in, WAY too many academic questions and the school is all about football.


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 Post subject: CUSA Realignment
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2003 11:26 pm 
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Yeah I do agree Marshall is not a good fit for the ACC. I believe alot of people refer to them as a rogue program with suspect academics. However I do believe the Big East may be interested in them. Even though I am a CUSA fan, there is a very big arising prolbem. It concerns the basketball schools versus the football schools and one prolbem is Louisville Cincy and Memphis are really basketball schools. With Louisville waiting for the chance to jump into a BCS conferences its just a matter of time before on side tears CUSA apart. I also believe even though the new comissioner is a great pick, there is already a rift between the schools. The comish has stated that CUSA basketball is what established the conference but that isnt the truth. CUSA was built by So Miss Memphis Houston Cincy and Louisville in 95 and I think ECU in 97. The basketball schools came later. Personally I think Slive screwed CUSA by allowing the 4 basketball schools in Marquette Charlotte Saint Louis and Depaul. Only school i can really say which has made a good contribution is Marquette these schools have stretched the conference to far. Why in the world does USM have a interest in playing Marquette. I understand they are a basketball power, but we arent and I would rather play Louisville Memphis and Cincy in basketball anyways these are teams that are close and that I care about. I measure CUSA in years first 3 great then came the basketball schools bad bad bad, then we add TCU and USF for football which was good but I dont know if it put us back in good shape.

One thing I have been looking at here lately is that Southern Miss has and is planning to upgrade their facilities, I know we are in the middle of recruiting wars but I think our AD may have a eye towards the BE and ACC i can see expanding the football stadium and upgrading the basketball arena but the womens tennis facilites, swimming facilites and a couple of other projects are getting upgraded. I think this is in the hope that the BE or ACC is going to grab us up in 2006. I just think it is kinda fishy. I mean if we are gonna continue to play in CUSA a 3300 seat stadium is fine but if Miami Pitt and BC starts coming to town I think we will need a bigger stadium. I also noticed a big time upgrade in scheduling we have had Okie State, Texas AM Illionis the last few years and Nebraska next year. I think our AD may know something or might just be making plans for the future but I think alot of conferences and schools know somethings are gonna take place and if you look around you can see it.


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 Post subject: CUSA Realignment
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2003 8:07 pm 
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;D Well, the way I see it is this:

1. PAC 10 adds 2
2. Big Ten adds 1
3. ACC adds 3
4. So the question is what does the Big East do?
I believe the Big East will add 4.

So who is in the pool of available teams assuming no teams leave these conferences? I think there are 22 teams in the pool (numbers are not rankings).

The Number One Choice
1) Norte Dane

MAC
2) Marshall
3) Central Florida
4) Toledo
5) Miami-Ohi0

WAC
6) Fresno State
7) Hawaii

Mountain West
9) BYU
10) Utah
11) Colorado State
12) San Diego State

CUSA
13) Louisville
14) Cincinnati
15) East Carolina
16) Memphis
17) South Florida
18) Southern Miss
19) TCU

Other Possibles
20) Air Force
21) Army Navy
22) Temple

So the question is who takes which teams.


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 Post subject: CUSA Realignment
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2003 9:13 pm 
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cyc46,

southern miss has always had a thing for scheduling tough opponents -- the future schedules are nothing new. it's one of the things i like about the eagles -- they're not afraid to schedule the big boys. but i wouldn't read anything into it vis-a-vis realignment.

i think southern miss is fine where it is, as is conference usa. 2-3 bids annually in basketball (sometimes 4), and usually 2-3 quality teams in football. all they need is a 12th team to create that championship game and a little extra money, and maybe every once in a while a dominant team comes along and steals a bcs bid.


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 Post subject: CUSA Realignment
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2003 10:03 pm 
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True Southern Miss has always scheduled hard but the difference now is we are getting these teams for a return game in Hattiesburg. Last year we were the first ever Mississippi team to host a Big Ten team which just happened to be defending champions Illionis. Nebraska will get us alot more eagle club members and season ticket holders a great season would probably get alot of them to stay. I personally like CUSA alot, I do have a few issues with it however. I would like to drop atleast two of the basketball schools Probably Saint Louis and Depaul. We need another quality team to get to twelve. My ideal would be to get Temple when they leave the Big East in Football. Temple allsports would be good for CUSA, it would probably increase their travel costs. I personally think the new comish is looking very hard at them. I have no proof just a suspicion. I think we have a very good core group of teams we just need a little refining, hopefully Louisville will come to appreciate what they have with CUSA but I cant blame them for leaving for the BCS if they get a chance. But if CUSA is around for awhile which i believe is 50/50 right now it will eventually become BCS or be included in a playoff. I just really believe that the WAC MAC and CUSA may not make it past the big shakeup in 2006.


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 Post subject: CUSA Realignment
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2003 3:41 am 
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travel costs for temple wouldn't be that much more in conf usa. they go to miami every other year, so a trip to memphis, houston or new orleans isn't much worse. basketball travels a lot cheaper than football does.


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 Post subject: CUSA Realignment
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2003 11:23 am 
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Temple would definitely add some quality in the basketball department to a conference that's already very good. And if they wactually win in football,there might be more fan interest in Philly.

cyc46,

It sounds like So Miss has the same notions that UCF does, a move to the ACC or BE in 2006. Both schools should put their money on the BE, because they don't seem to have the same opposition to expansion, whether it be to 9, 10, or 12. I think UCF has the inside track, being in Orlando and having decent relations with the big dog, Miami.

With the basketball/football rift already a factor, I think C-USA is really gonna have some problems, but losing a few times like Louisville and/or TCU might not put the nail in their coffin, since there are teams in the WAC and MAC (La Tech, Toledo, Marshall, UCF) you guys could bring in to fill the gaps. I think the MAC may be in greater jeopardy. Either the WAC or MWC may be toast. Those conferences need to focus regionally and pool resources or one wil have to swallow the other. MWC has the better programs in terms of appeal and fan support. The WAC has the teams that actually deliver right now.

Wilkie01,

I still have no clue how to handle the Pac 10, no one is a perfect fit that isn't already in a BCS conference. But of the non-BCS schools I think Air Force and Colorado State would be a perfect fit in the Big 12. Air Force is definitely better than the cellar dwellars and they play a style of ball that fits in very well with the old Big 8 fans, and Colorado St. has flat out proven they can hang with the Big 12 teams. Adding both BYU and Utah is probably the best solution for the PAC 10 in football, since both teams have proven they can field quality teams and there is solid fan support (and regionally they aren't too much of a stretch). Recruiting at both schools would definitely improve, so they wouldn't really water down the PAC 10. But institutionally BYU does not fit in the PAC 10 at all. The only other options for the PAC are the same Colorado teams (including Colorado itself) that fit so well in the Big 12.

Now that I think about it, the Big 12 is actually in decent shape to lose a few members, since Air Force, Colorado St., TCU, and perhaps even BYU and Utah could be plugged right in.



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 Post subject: CUSA Realignment
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2003 11:35 am 
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"CUSA was built by So Miss Memphis Houston Cincy and Louisville in 95 and I think ECU in 97."
Well, that's not true - the first season was 1996 and add Tulane to your list. Army and ECU played football for the league title the following year, 1997.

"The basketball schools came later."
That's not accurate either. The first basketball season preceeded the first football season ( I think - if not, it came directly behind the first football season): Marquette, DePaul, St Louis, UAB (basketball) and Charlotte are charter members of C-USA.
Look, from a competition standpoint, I agree we don't need the non-football schools. Cincy, Memphis and Louisville, the only 3 football schools that are playing good ball at this time, can get sufficient power ratings playing each other twice a year and playing some teams ooc. The metro did just fine and that was without cincy ad memphis for a while.
But the reason those teams are in the league is $$$: to not bring them along from the metro and great midwest would have cost a ton: hell, we had to pay VCU AND Virginia Tech like 1.5 million each (VPI got paid - incredible - shouldn't have gotten a dime - they had an invite had they brought their football team along).
I want them to leave, too - we'd have a more cohesive conference with a more focused direction. I'd like to go to the original C-USA members plus S Fla - it is those members that have won all c-usa football and basketball titles and most of the bowl games. And then selectively add a couple of members. Can't afford to kiick the rest out, however - they'll have to leave by their own choice.


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 Post subject: CUSA Realignment
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2003 11:41 am 
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Quote:
" I'd like to go to the original C-USA members plus S Fla - it is those members that have won all c-usa football and basketball titles and most of the bowl games.


I'm sorry, add TCU too. Not only has the resultant league won every football and basketball and baseball, except for one or two) and every women's basketball title, but EVERY team except for USF (potential, potential, potential) and Memphis (original metro member with cincy, lou and tulane) has won either a football or basketball title.


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 Post subject: CUSA Realignment
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2003 11:57 am 
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I agree with some of your postings. But you have me wrong in one respect. Those teams I mentioned did form CUSA, it was those schools that together and were the driving force to form the league. Those schools I mentioned with independent football programs were loosing money on travel and fan base at the time. They needed something to come together and make things better for them. Come on lets be real here you can play 1A basketball and not loose a ton of cash like football. CUSA was formed for the football anyone else who thinks otherwise is wrong. Yes over time it has become a basketball first conference, But intially it was formed to help those independents east of the Mississippi with football programs cut costs (*btw it also made scheduling better for the football teams and as a whole has helped most of the teams bring in more money). So as you can see I am right. CUSA wouldnt be a league without those football schools pushing the right buttons. As for the basketball teams yes they were there at the start cant argue that but what they provided then what they are not providing now is help for those teams like Cincy Louisville and Memphis to have a good RPI, last couple of years Marquette has been the only consistent contributor (you can say Depaul and Charlotte have made the NCAA but they arent consistent) so back then what was a win win for everyone has now turned into a geographic nightmare and also not to mention the basketball schools are blocking improvement I believe its the president of Charlotte that keeps tabling expansion. It only hurts the football schools because with 11 teams we are loosing our rivals. Southern Miss and Louisville dont play this year the biggest football matchup in CUSA over the last few years and Southern Miss and Memphis almost did not play due to the schedule but they changed it. So from where I sit the only schools loosing out are the Football schools, Basketball schools need to pull their weight or get out.


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 Post subject: CUSA Realignment
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2003 12:02 pm 
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I forgot one thing, may not seem too important at the time but remember what caused the old WAC to crack was that the league kept changing around the rivalry games in a rotating schedule. Traditionaly rivals didnt get to play each other every year and that is what is troubling CUSA right now. The league as a whole needs rivlaries need people to care about their team versus this team. I mean Louisville has beat us three in a row and lots of posts on the Southern Miss board goes along the lines of I cant wait to pay Louisville back well my friends that will not happen next year. That only hurts CUSA because this young league needs rivalries to develope to get people involved or its doomed to fail, because I could really care less about Southern Miss vs Army but give me Tulane Louisville Memphis or TCU and I am gonna be there in a lightning storm to watch it.


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 Post subject: CUSA Realignment
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2003 1:36 pm 
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Cyc, you could also add East Carolina to that list. Also, like Louisville, ECU will be rotating off USM's sched which really is a shame, considering just how big of a rivalry those two teams have.


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 Post subject: CUSA Realignment
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2003 2:25 pm 
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is there any chance of a football-only school joining cusa, a la army? personally, i like the way the basketball conference is aligned, and i like charlote and marquette especially. that way you can have two divisions, one with the original six, and one with the six who joined later. usm and louisville would always meet.


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