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 Post subject: The WAC/Sunbelt raid
PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 9:34 am 
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If I am not mistaken, the WAC is in the process of losing Tulsa, SMU, and Rice - La Tech may be gone as well - they are looking to raid the Sunbelt - there are three "western" schools that would be perfect.......New Mexico, Idaho, and Utah (I can't remember if they are NM State, Utah State, and Idaho State) - anyway, they are a great fit in my opinion - then the more eastern Sun Belt schools can form more allegiances (La Tech can come back, Troy State is coming etc.) - Arkansan


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 Post subject: The WAC/Sunbelt raid
PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 10:06 am 
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Despite Internet articles to the contrary, the word on the street is that the SBC ADs have made a pact to circle up the wagons.

USU's AD has told the WAC he will forward the names of any interested schools to the SBC & NMSU's AD said he "likes the direction of the Sun Belt".

With the 2005 rules getting ready to kick in, the only way the WAC & 'Belt can be viable is as one huge conference.


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 Post subject: The WAC/Sunbelt raid
PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 12:12 pm 
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Quote:
Despite Internet articles to the contrary, the word on the street is that the SBC ADs have made a pact to circle up the wagons.

USU's AD has told the WAC he will forward the names of any interested schools to the SBC & NMSU's AD said he "likes the direction of the Sun Belt".

With the 2005 rules getting ready to kick in, the only way the WAC & 'Belt can be viable is as one huge conference.

Even SB fans have to acknowledge that the way-out-there members (ID & UT ST) would bolt for the WAC in a heartbeat. The WAC offers a number of opponents in the area and the SB just can't offer that. There is no chance in the world that these 2 schools would take the SB over the WAC.

The NM ST quote is so laughingly vague that I feel safe in thinking that they would also take a WAC invite straight away, especially since they tried to get into the WAC in the past. But at least there could be some argument on this one.


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 Post subject: The WAC/Sunbelt raid
PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 12:58 pm 
Are there enough "viable" Sun Belt programs for the WAC to expand to 12 and formally establish Eastern and Western Divisions? This would seem to be Karl Benson's ideal, but it seems that there are too many questions (e.g. NMSU-UTEP, I-A future of several SBC schools)...


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 Post subject: The WAC/Sunbelt raid
PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 1:32 pm 
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SMU, Tulsa, & Rice are leaving the WAC, citing "travel costs" as one of their reasons. This leads me to believe that Arkansas State, ULs Monroe & Lafayette, MTSU, & Troy State are not being seriously considered by the conference.

This leaves Idaho, Utah State, NMSU, & North Texas. Idaho is pitiful in football, so I don't expect an invite for them. It's USU & NMSU if the WAC wants to go with 9, or all three if they want 10 (or if LT leaves).

Go ahead and consider NMSU and USU in the WAC.

I don't see the WAC and SBC merging--the WAC is twice as powerful as the SBC (though that's not saying much). Think about it--the WAC has lost three of 1A's worst teams, and they'll add two or three of 1A's worst teams. The WAC is right back where they started, albeit with MWC raids looming. There's just no way the WAC and SBC will merge.


Last edited by lsutootnanny on Tue Oct 21, 2003 1:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: The WAC/Sunbelt raid
PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 1:48 pm 
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SMU, Tulsa, & Rice are leaving the WAC, citing "travel costs" as one of their reasons. This leads me to believe that Arkansas State, ULs Monroe & Lafayette, MTSU, & Troy State are not being seriously considered by the conference.

This leaves Idaho, Utah State, NMSU, & North Texas. Idaho is pitiful in football, so I don't expect an invite for them. It's USU & NMSU if the WAC wants to go with 9, or all three if they want 10 (or if LT leaves).

Go ahead and consider NMSU and USU in the WAC.

I don't see the WAC and SBC merging--the WAC is twice as powerful as the SBC (though that's not saying much). Think about it--the WAC has lost three of 1A's worst teams, and they'll add two or three of 1A's worst teams. The WAC is right back where they started, albeit with MWC raids looming. There's just no way the WAC and SBC will merge.


Yes, yes, yes Bayou-toot!
;D ;D
Look at it this way, the western WAC will not have to travel as far to play the conference dogs. Utah and New Mexico are closer than Texas and Oklahoma. If that is appealing add Idaho. If you want to add a higher quality program, and a "bridge" in the footprint out to La.Tech invite No. Texas. When the MWC steals Boise, invite them both. ;)
8-)


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 Post subject: The WAC/Sunbelt raid
PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:00 pm 
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Speaking of the MWC, they're talking about going to 12--if they succeed in this, at least two will come from the WAC.

If this happens, you may see the WAC going to the eastern SBC teams. They have to rename the conference the WAC 'n' EAC (pronounced YAK).

The WAC is dead.


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 Post subject: The WAC/Sunbelt raid
PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:14 pm 
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I agree the WAC is in trouble. The remaining WAC teams are not very well linked. Hawaii and Fresno have been longing for the MWC ever since the original WAC teams left and created the MWC. I don't believe La Tech and Nevada have a strong relationship and both would jump to create better regional rivals. I just could never get excited about a conference game in Ruston with Nevada. This is a great opportunity to establish regional conferences again. If it can become a 12-team with east and west, that might do. I agree that ULL and ULM are barely D-1 along with Idaho, but survival might make for strange bedfellows. Must we wait until the big "announcement of Nov. 4 from the BE?" CUSA should take La. Tech if a spot opens.


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 Post subject: The WAC/Sunbelt raid
PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:16 pm 
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Speaking of the MWC, they're talking about going to 12--if they succeed in this, at least two will come from the WAC.

If this happens, you may see the WAC going to the eastern SBC teams. They have to rename the conference the WAC 'n' EAC (pronounced YAK).

The WAC is dead.


Other than TCU, what other non-WAC school is the MWC eying?


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 Post subject: The WAC/Sunbelt raid
PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:27 pm 
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Nevada, Boise State, Fresno State & Hawaii want in the MWC.

That's why I think the Sun Belt holds the better hand in this poker match- the WAC is a sieve, leaking schools all over the place. The MWC will keep taking schools from the WAC- one at a time, over years, or in one giant grab. It will be a constant problem until they get to twelve.

The Sun Belt isn't going anywhere. The logical choice is for the WAC schools that aren't on the MWC short list to move to the Sun Belt and force the schools interested in the MWC to join the Belt, wait for a MWC invite or go indy.


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 Post subject: The WAC/Sunbelt raid
PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:51 pm 
"SMU, Tulsa, & Rice are leaving the WAC, citing "travel costs" as one of their reasons. This leads me to believe that Arkansas State, ULs Monroe & Lafayette, MTSU, & Troy State are not being seriously considered by the conference"

Yes, but Rice, SMU, and Tulsa left the WAC voluntarily. As long as Louisiana Tech remains a member of the WAC, there will still be a need to surround the school with opponents closer than those in El Paso (not to mention the other WAC outposts).

As it *currently* stands, the WAC has 3.5 bowl tie-ins (Hawaii, Humanitarian, Mobile, and Silicon Valley) and all of its members field I-A football programs. If were an SBC school and felt confident that a two-division set-up was workable, I might consider, but obviously there would need to be a serious consideration of a potential "domino effect" in the West-WAC...

The WAC will not limit itself to Idaho, New Mexico State, and Utah State if/when it expands...


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 Post subject: The WAC/Sunbelt raid
PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 3:01 pm 
I think you analysis is correct, especially as Wright Waters has been quoted as saying the Sun Belt is not interested in big exit penalties for those who might want to take advantage of other opportunities. This will make a merger of some sort with the Sun Belt pretty attractive to those schools who feel they might end up in the Mountain West.

On the other hand, the WAC without SMU, Rice, and Tulsa does not have the attraction to the Sun Belt schools east of New Mexico that it once may have had. And as to NMSU and USU, they might be a little shy about dropping and running to join up a conference that is likely to be raided again in the fairly near future by the Mountain West- ie- they could not really sure of what the conference they would be joining would look like a year or two from now. What would they gain by joining a conference that consisted of potentially only USU, NMSU, UTEP, San Jose St., and La Tech after the Mountain West gets done?


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 Post subject: The WAC/Sunbelt raid
PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 9:37 pm 
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dues x mentioned the wac having 3.5 bowl tieins. isnt the humanitarian bowl going to be affiliated w/ whatever conference boise st is in as is the hawaii bowl with hawaii. that leaves the silicon valley classic, which might want out since no teams are from california, and the chance of the mobile bowl. the sunbelt has and will not lose the new orleans bowl. therefore as i see it the sunbelt and wac are pretty even in bowls if wac west is drastically altered.

ps: how do i get the line above a quote box to say who posted the quote and when it was posted. i know how to get a quote box but cant figure out how to post who it was by.


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 Post subject: The WAC/Sunbelt raid
PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 9:50 pm 
I said they *currently* have 3.5 bowl tie-ins, I never said that they would retain those bowl tie-ins for an indefinite period of time, especially since three of those bowls are "homegrown" (e.g. Hawaii, Humanitarian-Boise State, Silicon Valley-San Jose State). Further note that Hawaii played in the only Hawaii bowl; Boise State in three of the last four (out of 6 total) Humanitarian Bowls; and that Fresno State has played in all three Silicon Valley Classics. My reference to the WAC was AS IT NOW STANDS, without speculation on Mountain West expansion. However, that deal with Mobile is probably as good as gone (not that the E-WAC posed much of a threat post-TCU anyway).

On paper the *current* remaining WAC has more fringe benefits (e.g. better contractual obligations) than the Sun Belt (but then again, the Sun Belt probably shouldn't have more than one bowl as generally everyone loses almost all of their non-conference games and finishes with a losing record).


I will always use this time to point out that just because your home field hosts a bowl, that bowl is not necessarily "yours." Especially in those instances where the bowl outgrew the school (San Diego State-Holiday, Tulane-Sugar, UTEP-Sun) or the conference (Holiday-WAC, Independence-Southland, Florida Citrus-MAC, Las Vegas-Big West, Fiesta-WAC) or the bowl precedes the program (Outback-South Florida, Florida Citrus-Central Florida). Not that it has been mentioned recently, but some people still don't realize that not all "hosted" bowls are designed to acommodate the "host." Frankly, I think that when a bowl has out-lived its purpose (i.e. it no longer hosts a conference champion) it should more often than not be terminated (e.g. Humanitarian, Independence, Las Vegas). Obviously the Fiesta Bowl is a big exception, as is the Holiday Bowl (to a lesser extent).



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 Post subject: The WAC/Sunbelt raid
PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 10:07 pm 
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insightful analysis on bowls and their affiliation. sorry i didnt read your first post more closely. my bad


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