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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2003 1:56 pm 
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San Jose St shouldn't even be playing Div 1A ball. They can't draw flies.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2003 2:42 pm 
Another Thought:

I agree in adding San Jose St to the MWC. Since MWC is looking at market size and with San Jose St improving attendance, in a large market, which may get better with the MWC. I can see that could give the MWC a better lock on the Pacific Timezone and be a PAC-10 threat with BCS (if BCS selected). Adding TCU/Houston to the MWC would also give a large Texas market. It does look like MWC is looking at markets with schools as a in. The main place to look at and to make a stronger stand, is to be a PAC-10 competitor or as some might see it "a threat". The MWC can be a threat if they choose to. It does look like it is big markets that they are looking for with schools that share in their ideals. Let their idea of chemistry make the challenge. Why make a threat to the WAC which makes a weaker west, when the PAC is where the threat of past dominancy should be the target. Wrong wording. Better yet, this could make a stronger WEST for All Western Conferences. The east has several conferences that are strong. The west deserves having strong competitive conferences with each other too. :)

The MWC could look like this.

East
Air Force
Colorado State
Houston
New Mexico
TCU
Wyoming

West
BYU
San Diego State
San Jose State
UNLV
Utah






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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2003 4:57 pm 
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San Jose is unlikely to make the 1A cut and you guys think the MWC should consider them? Geography/market are factors that come into play, but the quality of a program will be the most influencial.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2003 5:42 pm 
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Alas,
Unfortunately the King is on the mark here. :-[
SJS needs a better institutional commitment just to stay 1A.
Living in the vicinity, I don't see this happening.
They're not even on the radar screen for MWC. They will be happy to be able to stay in the WAC and not relegate to the Big West.
Body bag games don't make you 1A. Stanford also just dropped them in 2005 in favor of UCDavis. This is a bad sign, when your best local rival would rather play a 1AA team than you (perhaps they figure you will be 1AA about the same time?) ???
8-)


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2003 6:28 pm 
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"Better market, better exposure" is what the WAC was thinking when they added San Jose State in the first place. Lot of good it did the WAC...

Stanford and Cal have a LOT of trouble getting pub in Bay Area media given the pro teams. You can imagine how buried SJSU gets.

Every indication I've heard is that San Jose would think like Pacific, Fullerton, and Long Beach before them... better to drop football than to go 1-AA. Besides, us soccer vultures are descending over Spartan and making plans to correct the problems that currently exist with the Earthquakes and Mexican teams (who probably bring in more money).


Last edited by pounder on Wed Dec 10, 2003 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2003 8:56 pm 
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Quote:
"Better market, better exposure" is what the WAC was thinking when they added San Jose State in the first place. Lot of good it did the WAC...

Stanford and Cal have a LOT of trouble getting pub in Bay Area media given the pro teams. You can imagine how buried SJSU gets.



Pounder's got a good point here. San Jose used to be a fairly respectable mid-major, but the demographics of the area changed. San Jose is now pretty big time, even after the dot com bust. Families would much rather spend thier sports entertainment dollars at he NHL's Sharks than Spartan football.

There is a real danger going after a school for expansion with exposure and market as your main concerns. San Jose State is a second tier college program in the middle of a Major Professional Sports market, and they struggle mightily with attendence and deep fan support. Does that sound familiar to anyone...TCU perhaps. ::) The MWC is a conference made up of schools that are the only game in town (w/ the exception of the Utah Jazz), TCU is a completely different type of animal...Be careful what you wish for MWC. :)


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2003 11:35 pm 
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I found an interesting thread regarding TCU to MWC.
http://memphis.cusa-talk.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=34091&forum=37&20#265375


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 5:40 am 
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nice find, scvd...

tcu still very serious about mwc if the source is reliable...

sounds also like those memphis folks are having a geographic identity crisis ...

8-)


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:57 pm 
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Quote:
San Jose is unlikely to make the 1A cut and you guys think the MWC should consider them? Geography/market are factors that come into play, but the quality of a program will be the most influencial.


Any solid, or struggling program that got a major break and got into a better conference in their region would grow, because it would draw fan interest, more television coverage, and more fans could travel with their team play on the road.

The problem is that nearby schools want to maintain a perceived edge over their neighbor in recruiting, media exposure, and frankly fear competition, and will fight to keep them out. That's why the lower tier conferences will never challenge the Big 10, SEC, ACC, etc. for supremacy. These major conferences were formed before the television age, and have a geographical advantage over the mid-major conferences. A big reason they initially got big is because the schools were close together and rivalries were allowed to develop. The mid-majors will not give themselves the chance to let this phenomenon evolve.

I understand why TCU wants into the Mountain West, but I really think that the geography problem, with the closest rival being a 10-hour drive away, will work against them if they join.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 1:36 pm 
Does the fact CSU dropped Fresno State from their Schedule next year have any bearing on this, or is it a response to something that may happen?


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 2:34 pm 
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HPD, I don't think Colo. St. dropping Fresno was done with any malice, or with an eye to Keeping the WAC in its place as a lesser conference. :) That being said, For open date purposes, the Rams had to drop Fresno in order to schedule a home and home with USC. :( Gee...what would you do in CSU's shoes? :-/ Any school will accept a hand up before extending a hand down, especially for a home and home.

If this was really a part of any big conference spacing conspiracy, I doubt if a Pac-10 would schedule a MWC just so the MWC could screw a WAC.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 4:59 pm 
I agree, just thought I'd throw it out there, It's definately a great pick on CSU's schedule..as of a couple a weeks ago there SOS is pretty tough next year for OOC

So far non-conference next year:

@ CU - unranked
@ USC - #2
Minnesota - #25
@ Miami (OH) - #14

It should give the conference more pub



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 7:38 pm 
If indeed Boise & TCU join, that would complicate the travel partners situation which is decent right now for MWC.

If TCU joins they may need to Bring Houston and/or UTEP along whom they could travel with. Boise could then possibly travel with fresno or Nevada if they were to join.

Reno to Boise 331 air miles
Fresno to Boise 498 air miles


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2003 2:08 am 
I was looking at the Maps post on this Forum and just thought of a couple of things...

i think it would be a great Idea if the MWC and WAC kinda did a trade...


the WAC could trade NM state and UTEP for San Diego State...yea i know...the MWC doesn't want to give up that Sunny San Diego Location...but it might be easier on travel


WAC

Hawaii
Fresno State
San Diego State*
Boise State
Nevada
Utah State
San Jose State
Idaho (rescued from the Sun Belt, i like Idaho, they'd be much more competitive in the WAC...they will get better, i mean they won the same amount of games as ECU, Army, SMU, and UTEP Combined!!! from the looks of their schedule, they could have won at least 2 more games because the scores...(loss no more than 3 points)) And plus they Beat Utah State and New Mexico State this YEAR....they're both going to the WAC...???


MWC

Utah
BYU
UNLV
Colorado State
Air Force
Wyoming
New Mexico
New Mexico State
UTEP


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2003 6:59 am 
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Don't how NM would react to that.


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