WAC General Realignment Thread

tute79 · **Joined:** Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:25 pm **Posts:** 1493

I suppose the WAC is an ever-so-slightly better situation than the Great West, but the long-term prospects look utterly horrible.

You should never be enamored with joining a conference, if all of their current members wish they were elsewhere.

UVU is not Big Sky material, since UVU lacks football.
HOWEVER, could UVU / Denver garner an invitation to the Summit as a package ?
The Summit:
a) may soon be hurting for members
b) does not sponsor FB, so being a non-FB school is not an issue, and
3) Has moved their footprint west to the Great Plains and stretching to Colorado / Utah might not be out of the question.

I'm of the opinion that ultimately the Great West / WAC schools want to be:
Seattle - WCC
Dever / UVU - Summit
Idaho - Big Sky
NMSU - Sun-Belt
CSUB - Big West
Boise State - MWC (that $10 million BE exit fee is going to be a hard pill to swallow !)
New Jersey Tech - AE
Chicago State - Summit / Horizon (problem is, they are unlikely to be wanted)
UTPA - Southland

It'd be nice if these schools could settle down into a stable conference,
and then the NCAA rule that prohibits moving up divisions without a conference invitation will prevent any future "independent orphans".

Quinn · **Joined:** Thu Oct 17, 2002 8:05 am **Posts:** 3757

I'm with ya tute. It's not too bad. It's basically a chance for some GW schools to "upgrade" to a auto-bid conference.

If you look at the schools remaining, only NMSU is a huge flight risk to the Sun Belt. It just seems that it is more likely than say, Boise St. returning to the MWC or getting into Big Sky, but I guess that is on the list as well. Furthermore...

Current WAC & Flight Risk Chances:

NMSU:
- Sun Belt all sports
- Sun Belt FB only
- Downgrade to FCS & Southland
- Indy FBS, Summit or Southland for other sports

Idaho:
- SB for FB only
- Downgrade to FCS and Big Sky
- Indy football, Summit for other sports

Denver:
- joins WCC
- joins Summit

Boise St.:
- returns to MWC
- joins Big West
- joins Big Sky
- joins Summit

Seattle:
- joins WCC
- joins Summit

So assuming the 5 stay, you bring in Utah Valley, CSU-Bakersfield and UTPA and you have an 8 school conference.

If 1-2 leave, you reach out to Chicago St. and/or NJIT as replacements to remain at 8.

So it would appear that for sometime, they could remain at 8.

PLUS....if the Big East takes another western school, that means the WAC could grow to 9.

That said, this is the time for the schools with some options to take them:

Excluding the FBS options which are givens for NMSU and Idaho, you've got:

Boise St: still trying for Big West. If that fails, there is the Big Sky attempt...Big Sky seems partially receptive to Boise St. for non-football sports but Idaho makes it 12/14, Boise St. makes it 12/13. and you've always got the chance for a group of WAC schools to move to the Summit. Remember, the Summit was a conference with schools in southern Utah, Lousiana and it's current footprint.

Denver: if the WCC isn't an option, there's always the Summit.

Idaho: Big Sky downgrade option, followed by the Summit if it's a group with Denver, Boise St., Utah Valley, etc.

Seattle: WCC is top goal. If they are out, they would need to hope for a Summit League western push.

NMSU: limited options...just Southland and hope the Summit accepts them if FBS is done.

JPSchmack · **Joined:** Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:21 pm **Posts:** 851

I strongly suspect that the WCC waits for a while on Denver/Seattle.

Because if they go to 12 teams and then BYU bolts, there is literally no one else for them to add and they are stuck on 11 for eternity.

There's 14 D-I schools in the Mountain/Pacific time zones that are private. The WCC, Seattle, Denver, USC and Stanford.

If BYU left and the WCC was at 11, there'd only be four candidates west of the Mississippi for them to call: Saint Louis (not going), Houston Baptist, Creighton and Oral Roberts.

Creighton would be very interesting, though.

Fresno St. Alum · **Posted:** Tue May 08, 2012 3:22 pm

JPSchmack wrote:

I strongly suspect that the WCC waits for a while on Denver/Seattle.

Because if they go to 12 teams and then BYU bolts, there is literally no one else for them to add and they are stuck on 11 for eternity.

There's 14 D-I schools in the Mountain/Pacific time zones that are private. The WCC, Seattle, Denver, USC and Stanford.

If BYU left and the WCC was at 11, there'd only be four candidates west of the Mississippi for them to call: Saint Louis (not going), Houston Baptist, Creighton and Oral Roberts.

Creighton would be very interesting, though.

Well Grand Canyon is a for profit school, was private. I'm just thinking out loud but in 7 years(per ncaa rule, must play 3 provisional, 5 full member D-II years before moving D-I) Azusa Pacific seems like a school that would want to do that.

freaked4collegefb · **Joined:** Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:37 pm **Posts:** 7063

CSNBBS MB thread discussing "possibility"of the WAC trying to salvage FBS FB by assembling a bunch of eastern FCS upgrades by 6-1-2012.Link at http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=570897

tute79 · **Joined:** Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:25 pm **Posts:** 1493

PLEASE NO !!!!

Any of those schools would run the terrible risk of ending up in the limbo that the current WAC schools are in.
There are better move-up options (Sun-Belt, MAC).

tkalmus · **Joined:** Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:40 pm **Posts:** 1036

tute79 wrote:

PLEASE NO !!!!

Any of those schools would run the terrible risk of ending up in the limbo that the current WAC schools are in.
There are better move-up options (Sun-Belt, MAC).

Those options are limited, MAC wants 1 school as a fb only member to offset UMass (Villanova BE/CAA and Youngstown St Horizon/MVFC are the only immediately available candidates, everyone else would need to find a new home for all sports), the Sun Belt wants 2 schools and JMU, GA So, Lamar, SHSU, UDel, Jacksonville St and App St all want those last two spots.

I could see the WAC offering everyone that the Sun Belt doesn't grab and then hope that the Big Sky guys would want to come over in Dec.

Already in : Idaho, NMSU
Likely Eastern Upgrades: GA Southern, App St, JMU, Lamar
Likely Western Upgrades: Montana, Montana St
Possible Upgrades: Portland St, Sac St, Cal Poly, UC Davis, SHSU, Jacksonville St

Fresno St. Alum · **Posted:** Sat May 19, 2012 7:37 pm

tkalmus wrote:

tute79 wrote:

PLEASE NO !!!!

Any of those schools would run the terrible risk of ending up in the limbo that the current WAC schools are in.
There are better move-up options (Sun-Belt, MAC).

Those options are limited, MAC wants 1 school as a fb only member to offset UMass (Villanova BE/CAA and Youngstown St Horizon/MVFC are the only immediately available candidates, everyone else would need to find a new home for all sports), the Sun Belt wants 2 schools and JMU, GA So, Lamar, SHSU, UDel, Jacksonville St and App St all want those last two spots.

I could see the WAC offering everyone that the Sun Belt doesn't grab and then hope that the Big Sky guys would want to come over in Dec.

Already in : Idaho, NMSU
Likely Eastern Upgrades: GA Southern, App St, JMU, Lamar
Likely Western Upgrades: Montana, Montana St
Possible Upgrades: Portland St, Sac St, Cal Poly, UC Davis, SHSU, Jacksonville St

YSU hasn't done a FBS study but Illinois St. has. I wonder if they could be MVC/MAC members.

sec03 · **Joined:** Sat May 20, 2006 2:09 pm **Posts:** 1232

Idaho to the MAC for fb only. NMSU to the SB. WAC gives up sponsoring fb, but could develop non-fb sports.

Eastern upgrades with 2 very west schools, in NW & SW, doesn't look stable for a long-term future.

freaked4collegefb · **Joined:** Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:37 pm **Posts:** 7063

Article out of Boise with comments from SBC and WAC Commissioners regarding SBC decision not to invite Idaho or NMSU at this time.Link at http://voices.idahostatesman.com/2012/0 ... aho_member

freaked4collegefb · **Joined:** Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:37 pm **Posts:** 7063

Article out of Las Cruces with comments from NMSU AD regarding SBC snub and possibility that the WAC may have to regroup with a bunch of FCS moveups.Link at http://www.lcsun-news.com/las_cruces-bu ... shuts-door

tute79 · **Joined:** Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:25 pm **Posts:** 1493

Wonder if the Big Sky would entertain the possibility of Idaho / NMSU as Oly sports members / FBS independents ?
It could risk fracturing the conference if say Montana / MSU then pondered doing the same...
or they could have a stipulation that after a few years, Idaho / NMSU had to agree to drop down to FCS or leave....
just a thought...

The WAC is SOOO sickly, won't somebody please stick a fork in it ?

Fresno St. Alum · **Posted:** Fri May 25, 2012 1:13 pm

tute79 wrote:

Wonder if the Big Sky would entertain the possibility of Idaho / NMSU as Oly sports members / FBS independents ?
It could risk fracturing the conference if say Montana / MSU then pondered doing the same...
or they could have a stipulation that after a few years, Idaho / NMSU had to agree to drop down to FCS or leave....
just a thought...

The WAC is SOOO sickly, won't somebody please stick a fork in it ?

Montana and MSU can't do the same because you need a conf to move up to fbs. They can't just be Indy/Big Sky members like NMSU and Idaho who are existing members of FBS.

tute79 · **Joined:** Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:25 pm **Posts:** 1493

Well, wait a minute !

I know you can't play a sport a the same level in a different conference, if your home conference sponsors football AT THAT LEVEL.

However, can a conference house schools playing FBS and FCS at the same time (while sponsoring either FBS or FCS FB) ?

I think the answer is YES ! I will cite the Sun-Belt. So I conclude that FBS and FCS are two differnet leveles (NCAA divisions) of football.

WKU was an FCS member of the MVFC (Gateway League as it was then known), while WKU was in the Sun-Belt. Sun-Belt was an FCS league.
I think right now, South Alabama (for a transition period) is playing FCS FB and then will move up (this fall ?)

Big South sponsors FCS, but includes Campbell, who plays non-scholarship Pioneer League FB,
so that must be yet another FB division within D-1 (did it used ot be referred to as D-1AAA ?)

Fresno St. Alum · **Posted:** Fri May 25, 2012 4:14 pm

tute79 wrote:

Well, wait a minute !

I know you can't play a sport a the same level in a different conference, if your home conference sponsors football AT THAT LEVEL.

However, can a conference house schools playing FBS and FCS at the same time (while sponsoring either FBS or FCS FB) ?

I think the answer is YES ! I will cite the Sun-Belt. So I conclude that FBS and FCS are two differnet leveles (NCAA divisions) of football.

WKU was an FCS member of the MVFC (Gateway League as it was then known), while WKU was in the Sun-Belt. Sun-Belt was an FCS league.
I think right now, South Alabama (for a transition period) is playing FCS FB and then will move up (this fall ?)

Big South sponsors FCS, but includes Campbell, who plays non-scholarship Pioneer League FB,
so that must be yet another FB division within D-1 (did it used ot be referred to as D-1AAA ?)

I know about the Sun Belt thing. I'm not sure I follow the rest.

Here's the breakdown. If Idaho and NMSU join the Sky and stay FBS. Montana and MSU can not move to FBS because they Sky is a FCS conf. w/ 2 schools that play Indy FBS.

So in what way would Montana or MSU be a risk? They can't be FBS indy. Big Sky isn't a FBS conf., still wouldn't be w/ NMSU/Idaho. Montana and MSU would have to join the WAC or MWC to be FBS.

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