WAC General Realignment Thread

tute79 · **Joined:** Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:25 pm **Posts:** 1491

Now you've lost me.

Assuming the Big Sky remains sponsoring FCS.
Idaho and NMSU join in for Oly Sports, but for FB are FBS independents.
Montana and MSU go to the league office and say, we would like to withdraw form Big Sky FB, and become FBS independents,
but remain in the confernece for Oly Sports, JUST LIKE Idaho and NMSU.
Why couldn't they (theoretically) have that same deal ?

Then the fear would be if others (Portland State, Sacto State....) demanded the same deal, the Big Sky's numbers for their FCS FB league would be threatened...

I realize this is a bit convoluted, but ....

Fresno St. Alum · **Posted:** Fri May 25, 2012 9:29 pm

tute79 wrote:

Now you've lost me.

Assuming the Big Sky remains sponsoring FCS.
Idaho and NMSU join in for Oly Sports, but for FB are FBS independents.
Montana and MSU go to the league office and say, we would like to withdraw form Big Sky FB, and become FBS independents,
but remain in the confernece for Oly Sports, JUST LIKE Idaho and NMSU.
Why couldn't they (theoretically) have that same deal ?

Then the fear would be if others (Portland State, Sacto State....) demanded the same deal, the Big Sky's numbers for their FCS FB league would be threatened...

I realize this is a bit convoluted, but ....

Montana and MSU can't just become FBS Indy. They are NOT existing FBS members which means they would need an invite from an actual FBS conf. to even start the transition to FBS. NCAA says you can NOT join FBS w/o a FBS conf. invite. What FBS conf would they be in to leave Big Sky fb?

Your SBC point on WKU and USA would be the opposite of Montana and MSU. That would be like Montana playing oly sports in the WAC w/ FCS fb in the Sky and MSU starting up fb w/ oly in the WAC. Then UM moves from FCS to FBS WAC since WAC sponsors FBS fb. MSU decides to start fb in WAC FBS. They can't do that in the Big Sky because the BSky doesn't sponsor FBS fb.

tute79 · **Joined:** Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:25 pm **Posts:** 1491

OK, I follow.. so there is an NCAA restriction.

So the only likely way those Big Sky schools move to FBS is to accept an invitation to MWC (either all-sports, or FB only), or thesame with regard to WAC.
And the WAC may go out of business as a FB league after 2012...

I'm hoping Idaho and NMSU find a happy home in MWC or Big Sky, and the WAC shuts down instead of making these desperate overtures (a la the Big East).

Fresno St. Alum · **Posted:** Sat May 26, 2012 2:32 pm

tute79 wrote:

OK, I follow.. so there is an NCAA restriction.

So the only likely way those Big Sky schools move to FBS is to accept an invitation to MWC (either all-sports, or FB only), or thesame with regard to WAC.
And the WAC may go out of business as a FB league after 2012...

I'm hoping Idaho and NMSU find a happy home in MWC or Big Sky, and the WAC shuts down instead of making these desperate overtures (a la the Big East).

They added that rule during the 2007 moratorium, they also added that rule for moving from D-II to D-I. They eliminated NAIA to D-I(Belmont, Lipscomb, HBU), and JUCO to D-I(UVU). Not existing(sports) to D-I(TAMU-CC). They made a rule that you must be a full member of D-II for 5 years(8 total w/ 3 provisional years) before applying to D-I(FGCU).

clay777 · **Joined:** Sun May 27, 2012 4:14 pm **Posts:** 1

If the Big Sky schools are to scared to move up to play with the big boys let them stay at FCS level. the WAC should go after the cental and eastern schools. They should go after N.Dakota St.,S.Dakota St.,N.Iowa,Missouri St.,Lamar,Sam Houston St.,McNeese St., SF Austin.
I believe if have the Eastern schools ready to join than some of the schools that I mention will join. Have a agreement with Eastern schools that they can break apart after some more of the Western schools are ready to join.
East: App. St.,Jacksonville St.,Liberty,James Madison,Youngstown St.,Georgia Southern,Delaware,Richmond
West:Idaho,NMSt.,N.Dakota St.,S.Dakota St.,N.Iowa,Lamar,Sam Houston St.,Missouri St.
Non FB: Denver,Seattle,Boise St.,Utah Valley
That will give you 20/16 conference a much better stable conference than before. That will give you 7 divisional FB schedule and one or two cross divisional games.
OLY Divisions:
East: App.St.,Jacksonville St.,Liberty,James Madison,Youngstown St.,Georgia Southern,Delaware,Richmond,Lamar,Sam Houston St.
West: Idaho,NMSt.,N.Dakota St.,S.Dakota St.,N.Iowa,Missouri St.,Denver,Seattle,Utah Valley,Boise St.
I believe this will give a good TV contract.

pounder · **Posted:** Mon May 28, 2012 3:43 pm

Here's that sliver of opportunity for Montana to threaten all sorts of things against Doug Fullerton if he doesn't fall in line with a WAC/Big Sky merger idea.

Of course, my idea is pie-in-sky, Montana has serious issues with football players being bad guys in Missoula, and as sharks go, Fullerton is pretty good. He's also a UM alum, so...

...never mind.

dbackjon · **Joined:** Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:50 pm **Posts:** 267

Scared to move up? Damn, that is some arrogant bullshit.

Some schools realize that actually playing for a NC is far better than having 5 home games, three body bag games, and no shot at anything, other than a Toliet Bowl.

The SunBelt, WAC and other than a couple of teams from the CUSA, THAT is crap football - they don't matter, just too full of themselves to realize it.

seanbo · **Posted:** Tue May 29, 2012 9:50 am

dbackjon wrote:

Scared to move up? Damn, that is some arrogant bullshit.

Some schools realize that actually playing for a NC is far better than having 5 home games, three body bag games, and no shot at anything, other than a Toliet Bowl.

The SunBelt, WAC and other than a couple of teams from the CUSA, THAT is crap football - they don't matter, just too full of themselves to realize it.

or they just want their shot at being the next Boise State

Fresno St. Alum · **Posted:** Tue May 29, 2012 2:07 pm

seanbo wrote:

dbackjon wrote:

Scared to move up? Damn, that is some arrogant bullshit.

Some schools realize that actually playing for a NC is far better than having 5 home games, three body bag games, and no shot at anything, other than a Toliet Bowl.

The SunBelt, WAC and other than a couple of teams from the CUSA, THAT is crap football - they don't matter, just too full of themselves to realize it.

or they just want their shot at being the next Boise State

Or they just want to compete at the highest level. FCS doesn't offer that. Most of the world doesn't know or care who won the FCS title. It's like being the NIT champ. The ones moving up figure it's better to be in an opening round game of the NCAA tourney(New Orleans Bowl) than be the NIT champ. I don't think anyone is scared to move up, they are either unable to afford it or happy to play in the NIT.

dbackjon · **Joined:** Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:50 pm **Posts:** 267

Fresno St. Alum wrote:

seanbo wrote:

dbackjon wrote:

Scared to move up? Damn, that is some arrogant bullshit.

Some schools realize that actually playing for a NC is far better than having 5 home games, three body bag games, and no shot at anything, other than a Toliet Bowl.

The SunBelt, WAC and other than a couple of teams from the CUSA, THAT is crap football - they don't matter, just too full of themselves to realize it.

or they just want their shot at being the next Boise State

Or they just want to compete at the highest level. FCS doesn't offer that. Most of the world doesn't know or care who won the FCS title. It's like being the NIT champ. The ones moving up figure it's better to be in an opening round game of the NCAA tourney(New Orleans Bowl) than be the NIT champ. I don't think anyone is scared to move up, they are either unable to afford it or happy to play in the NIT.

Sorry, but the FCS championship is NOT the NIT. A toliet bowl is lOWER than the NIT.

Unless you are in the big conferences, FBS is a money losing. third tier experience. Might as well stay in FCS, and actually PLAY for something - the thing that every other sport does.

Getting into the Sunbelt, etc doesn;t mean you are playing or competing at the highest level. Anyone that thinks that is a fucking moron, frankly.

Hell, the second best team in the Sunbelch last year got smoked AT HOME by a team too weak to even make the playoffs.

SunBelt football is worse than CAA, Big SKy, Southern or MVFC football.

Fresno St. Alum · **Posted:** Tue May 29, 2012 4:41 pm

dbackjon wrote:

Fresno St. Alum wrote:

seanbo wrote:

dbackjon wrote:

Scared to move up? Damn, that is some arrogant bullshit.

Some schools realize that actually playing for a NC is far better than having 5 home games, three body bag games, and no shot at anything, other than a Toliet Bowl.

The SunBelt, WAC and other than a couple of teams from the CUSA, THAT is crap football - they don't matter, just too full of themselves to realize it.

or they just want their shot at being the next Boise State

Or they just want to compete at the highest level. FCS doesn't offer that. Most of the world doesn't know or care who won the FCS title. It's like being the NIT champ. The ones moving up figure it's better to be in an opening round game of the NCAA tourney(New Orleans Bowl) than be the NIT champ. I don't think anyone is scared to move up, they are either unable to afford it or happy to play in the NIT.

Sorry, but the FCS championship is NOT the NIT. A toliet bowl is lOWER than the NIT.

Unless you are in the big conferences, FBS is a money losing. third tier experience. Might as well stay in FCS, and actually PLAY for something - the thing that every other sport does.

Getting into the Sunbelt, etc doesn;t mean you are playing or competing at the highest level. Anyone that thinks that is a fucking moron, frankly.

Hell, the second best team in the Sunbelch last year got smoked AT HOME by a team too weak to even make the playoffs.

SunBelt football is worse than CAA, Big SKy, Southern or MVFC football.

Sure they are, they play Alabama and have the same FBS letters by their name. You can make a poll here or on the the csn board, that will show that most people would rather be a FBS member than be FCS. Troy gets to be on tv 2 or 3 times a year. In FCS you have to make it to the semi finals to make it on tv. FCS loses money too. FBS get double the pay for a body bag vs FCS. NAU was in touble a couple of years ago, so lets not act like FCS doesn't lose money. I watch the FCS, but I'm speaking for most of the world that doesn't even know they exist. None of my friends and fam can name more than 1 FCS school. The 2 UCD grads would be the exception. They know CP, Sac St. too so that's 3 schools. Seems to me a lot of the move ups hope to be the next Nevada, BSU, Troy, why not shoot for the best? More air time too(weeknight espn, highlights on espn), school Prez' love that.

Fresno St. Alum · **Posted:** Tue May 29, 2012 4:46 pm

You said it yourself on the fcs board, about the CAA is now better w/ Ga St. gone. If Ga St. isn't a contender in FCS, and has a FBS offer, why not take it? The only teams winning titles that get air time at all are Montana, Delaware, App St., JMU now NDSU. Someone might get in the semis but these are the familiar faces. So those are the ones that wouldn't be winning titles anymore if they moved up. Texas St., UTSA, Charlotte, Ga St. weren't going to win any NCs in the FCS. ODU, maybe but CUSA offered them a rare jump over SBC, MAC, WAC startup status so they took it.

I hear the same argument about moving from D-II to D-I every year on the D-II board. They were saying how dumb it would be for the 4 Dakotas to move up because they'd end up like N.Colorado and UCD(sucky). Good thing they didn't listen to the D-II homers. NDSU won the title, made the tourney. SDSU made the tourney and playoffs.

I hear the same argument on the NAIA board about moving D-II.

dbackjon · **Joined:** Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:50 pm **Posts:** 267

Fresno St. Alum wrote:

You said it yourself on the fcs board, about the CAA is now better w/ Ga St. gone. If Ga St. isn't a contender in FCS, and has a FBS offer, why not take it? The only teams winning titles that get air time at all are Montana, Delaware, App St., JMU now NDSU. Someone might get in the semis but these are the familiar faces. So those are the ones that wouldn't be winning titles anymore if they moved up. Texas St., UTSA, Charlotte, Ga St. weren't going to win any NCs in the FCS. ODU, maybe but CUSA offered them a rare jump over SBC, MAC, WAC startup status so they took it.

I hear the same argument about moving from D-II to D-I every year on the D-II board. They were saying how dumb it would be for the 4 Dakotas to move up because they'd end up like N.Colorado and UCD(sucky). Good thing they didn't listen to the D-II homers. NDSU won the title, made the tourney. SDSU made the tourney and playoffs.

I hear the same argument on the NAIA board about moving D-II.

It is not even the same for football moving from DII to DI - and you know it. You are going from one division that has playoffs to another that has playoffs - with equal access for all conferences that want it.

dbackjon · **Joined:** Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:50 pm **Posts:** 267

Fresno St. Alum wrote:

dbackjon wrote:

Fresno St. Alum wrote:

seanbo wrote:

dbackjon wrote:

Scared to move up? Damn, that is some arrogant bullshit.

Some schools realize that actually playing for a NC is far better than having 5 home games, three body bag games, and no shot at anything, other than a Toliet Bowl.

The SunBelt, WAC and other than a couple of teams from the CUSA, THAT is crap football - they don't matter, just too full of themselves to realize it.

or they just want their shot at being the next Boise State

Or they just want to compete at the highest level. FCS doesn't offer that. Most of the world doesn't know or care who won the FCS title. It's like being the NIT champ. The ones moving up figure it's better to be in an opening round game of the NCAA tourney(New Orleans Bowl) than be the NIT champ. I don't think anyone is scared to move up, they are either unable to afford it or happy to play in the NIT.

Sorry, but the FCS championship is NOT the NIT. A toliet bowl is lOWER than the NIT.

Unless you are in the big conferences, FBS is a money losing. third tier experience. Might as well stay in FCS, and actually PLAY for something - the thing that every other sport does.

Getting into the Sunbelt, etc doesn;t mean you are playing or competing at the highest level. Anyone that thinks that is a fucking moron, frankly.

Hell, the second best team in the Sunbelch last year got smoked AT HOME by a team too weak to even make the playoffs.

SunBelt football is worse than CAA, Big SKy, Southern or MVFC football.

Sure they are, they play Alabama and have the same FBS letters by their name. You can make a poll here or on the the csn board, that will show that most people would rather be a FBS member than be FCS. Troy gets to be on tv 2 or 3 times a year. In FCS you have to make it to the semi finals to make it on tv. FCS loses money too. FBS get double the pay for a body bag vs FCS. NAU was in touble a couple of years ago, so lets not act like FCS doesn't lose money. I watch the FCS, but I'm speaking for most of the world that doesn't even know they exist. None of my friends and fam can name more than 1 FCS school. The 2 UCD grads would be the exception. They know CP, Sac St. too so that's 3 schools. Seems to me a lot of the move ups hope to be the next Nevada, BSU, Troy, why not shoot for the best? More air time too(weeknight espn, highlights on espn), school Prez' love that.

NAU can play Alabama as well. Neither of us are going to get a home game against Alabama.
No one, outside of these boards or hard-core football fans, know who Troy is. All the "exposure" means jack.

If a school wants to go to the mediocrity of the SunBelt - have at it.
But the attitude that schools are stupid to turn down an offer to go to a 10th-rate FBS confernence vs staying in a first rate FCS conference is ASSININE. Some schools feel FCS is BEST for them.

Fresno St. Alum · **Posted:** Tue May 29, 2012 6:03 pm

dbackjon wrote:

Fresno St. Alum wrote:

You said it yourself on the fcs board, about the CAA is now better w/ Ga St. gone. If Ga St. isn't a contender in FCS, and has a FBS offer, why not take it? The only teams winning titles that get air time at all are Montana, Delaware, App St., JMU now NDSU. Someone might get in the semis but these are the familiar faces. So those are the ones that wouldn't be winning titles anymore if they moved up. Texas St., UTSA, Charlotte, Ga St. weren't going to win any NCs in the FCS. ODU, maybe but CUSA offered them a rare jump over SBC, MAC, WAC startup status so they took it.

I hear the same argument about moving from D-II to D-I every year on the D-II board. They were saying how dumb it would be for the 4 Dakotas to move up because they'd end up like N.Colorado and UCD(sucky). Good thing they didn't listen to the D-II homers. NDSU won the title, made the tourney. SDSU made the tourney and playoffs.

I hear the same argument on the NAIA board about moving D-II.

It is not even the same for football moving from DII to DI - and you know it. You are going from one division that has playoffs to another that has playoffs - with equal access for all conferences that want it.

To them it is. They feel, FCS is not worth a move to D-I. They move just to get their name on espn bottom line and the hope of 1 day getting eliminated in the 1st round of the tourney as dumb reasons to leave.

Fresno isn't a big time school, but we've been top 25 a few times, we've beat big name schools in bowl games. we get on tv 4 or 5 times a year. I'll take that over an FCS playoff appearance. We finished in the black too.

I still point to all of those other reasons Prez feel the need to move up. I still stand by most americans not knowing or caring about fcs. I care because I follow all D-I, D-II, NAIA, D-III in that order, I'm in the minority. I'm the only on the FCS board that isn't a fan of a fcs school, current or recent move up.

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