Some smart words there 2Early. I hope Univ. of Idaho will put out, because it will make for better sports at the school for it's students and it public as a whole. I know that other Division 1-A schools will support UI as a Independent so that would not be a issue. They can get what they want and that is to stay in division 1-A with the requirements. It would not take to 2014 to make it to that level if the state-local aministation/students/public at Idaho will support it. UI does have some of the steps needed. They just need several more to make thing come to true. Yes, UI does need to make the upgrades first to make the next steps. A conference change alone does not insure that they will stay in division 1-A.

A few points to mention about all this "pay your dues" argument:

1. There is no requirement for how big a stadium has to be. Only 15,000 average attendance. The NCAA allows one neutral site game to count for that attendance mark, so obviously if it is ok with the NCAA, it should be ok with everyone else.

2. You are right that Idaho went too quickly to 1-A. We have made an investment in facilities, with the Cowan Spectrum (in the Kibbie, seats 10K for bball), the new East End Addition (gives us 7,000 square foot of workout facility, putting us on par with nearly every school in the WAC), and stabilizing the head football coach and athletic director.

3. The rules for moving to 1-A never had anything to do with facilities. The only problem was the 30K stadium requirement, which the NCAA smartly removed. There were never any rules that stated "You must have a budget of $xxx or that you must have x amount of seating or x amount of workout space." The only requirements were for football attendance and Title IX compliance.

4. Which makes more sense? The fact that a good school makes a conference or that good conferences make a school. Look at Wyoming, San Jose State, many of the MAC schools. Obviously there are more schools than Idaho that have problems. However, they don't have the same problems because Idaho is in a bad regional conference. It made some sense with NM State and Utah State, but now with them gone, Sun Belt makes no sense whatsoever. The same argument can be made for LaTech. With all the texas schools and Tulsa gone to CUSA, they don't make sense regionally. Switch Idaho into the WAC and put LaTech into CUSA. This is the easiest solution.

5. Until the NCAA reconsiders the stadium requirement (highly unlikely) and/or the attendance requirement allowing for one neutral site game (also unlikely), Idaho WILL MEET all criteria for I-A. It is not like you can just easily move back down to 1-AA. It would cost too much because of the current emphasis on staying 1-A and with Title IX.

6. So, if Idaho meets the criteria set by the NCAA, why wouldn't they be a candidate for the WAC? It is ludicrous to shut us out simply because our stadium is a bit smaller. We can fill it much easier with Boise State, Nevada, NM State and Utah State than we can with Louisiana schools and Middle Tennessee State. We need the WAC. The WAC might not need us, but we need some help. I think that with our bball, track and football programs we are a viable option. I think that the better regional competition would make us better. We can focus later on building a stadium. Until it is required by the NCAA, why spend time and money working on it? As long as we can still make the attendance requirement per NCAA regulations, what is the point of building a stadium? We do need to eventually, but we shouldn't be required to build one and then see who will invite us to their conference.

GO VANDALS!!!

The WAC will not solve Idaho's problems.

THE WAC WILL NOT SOLVE IDAHO'S PROBLEMS.

Doing things that generate NEW REVENUE will solve Idaho's problems. If you focus on JUST qualifying for 1-A, and IMO both you and the school seem to still be in the mindset of qualifying under the previous standards, you'll fail. Depending on Fresno State to motivate Boise-based alums to make a trip up is pointless when Kibbie doesn't even sell out for Boise State.

The Cowan Spectrum (Kibbie Dome with a few curtains) is NOT an answer, it's curtains. Example: Idaho State has pulled basketball out of Holt Arena (Holt is almost the same functional dome as Kibbie, just spun around inside 90 degrees, and short 4K seats) for a reason- playing in their old gym forces people to buy season tickets, so at the very least, they are making normal utility payments based on cash on hand rather than incurring debt. More than that, it probably increases revenue (ticket prices go up), and gets their alumni motivated to build a new basketball arena. Idaho's average attendance would fit all too well inside old Memorial Gym right now. Idaho will be doing well with a 4,000-seat arena with luxury suites rather than paying to heat up all of Kibbie when 1,500 brave souls are at one end watching basketball. Very few brave souls buy season tickets when they know they can walk up.

If you can build a new football stadium in the process, cool. However, I mention basketball first because it is WAY underperforming, and in the process of realigning basketball, you're then freed up to really make improvements to Kibbie for football. If luxury suites can be put in there, the only other thing that needs to be done is to wedge no more than 2,000 more seats in there somehow.

If you feel I'm not being fair here, well, that's the lay of the land for you. 8 miles from Pullman and 300 miles from your biggest "TV fan base" means Idaho has to do things with a heck of a lot more oomph than the schools around them just to get noticed. Given I'm a Duck, you can guess what I'm going to say about being innovative... let's just put it that way.

Sure the WAC will not solve Idaho's Problems...But the WAC can help solve those problems compared to the Sun Belt...having Idaho in the Sun Belt will no doubtedly kill them as far as fan base and travel expenses...Sure they need to win more games...but last year they beat Utah State and New Mexico State...so they can find ways to win...just think if Idaho was 9-3 and they won the Sun Belt Title...I'm sure that the Kibbie Dome would be filled up to capacity...so it's not really the size of the Kibbie Dome...but they first need to win games...i mean they have about 12,000 or so for an average attendance...i'm sure they'll count the Washington State Game as a home game....and they will definitely make their attendance...and i think they could have an agreement with Washington State to use their stadium as their own at times....

I just think Geographically Idaho should be in the WAC...there's no telling where college teams will be in 5-10 years...in 5 years Idaho or San Jose State, or Army, or any of those low level teams...they could be winning 7 or 8 games...so it's an investment, and you need schools in your area that will add value, and Idaho will add Value, the money will come...and the WAC will want to grab Idaho...

The WAC will not solve Idaho's problems. It may help a bit, but it is up to Idaho to step to the plate.

They should use Martin Stadium for the home field, IMO. There is no shame in using a nearby stadium even if it is on, or near another's campus. How long did UCLA play their games in the LA Colloseum, basically on the USC Campus?

Ironically, in the long run Idaho may help solve the WAC's problems. Remember, Idaho is not the only western school looking at attendance problems. SJSU has issues of their own. If they don't make the cut in a few years and Idaho has already dropped back to the Big Sky, where does the WAC look then for their 8th team? The WAC should add Idaho, if for nothing else than a bit of an insurance policy. :)

Idaho should just become independent during this time of change and help reduce costs for themselves. Other Division 1-A schools will help in getting them where they want to be. It will also be a chance for University and the state of Idaho to prove themselves....

I wouldn't wish independence on my about-to-be-ex-wife's school, if she had one. Independence meant that Utah State had to schedule Connecticut and Troy State. It doesn't help. I don't think it reduces costs more than it reduces fan bases for schools not approximately named "Notre Dame."

From the FWIW file:

Dan Hawkins on Boise radio tonight, was asked the question, "Do most WAC schools want Idaho in the conference?"

Answer: "No." Response time, approximately 0.4 seconds.

Yes, he's the Boise State coach. Yes, he's a salesman of high magnitude in town. I believe he understands the market (even if there are 10K Vandal alums here), so to call this an unbiased answer is probably pushing it. I just happen to note that, given the chance to give a sometimes typical measured, diplomatic response to such a question, nothing of the sort came forth.

Perhaps the bigger question is whether that answer will be the same after NCAA's April meetings.

The only schools who will survive at the non-BCS IA level will have 30,000+ students and a large metro home base from which to pull support. Or have a winning tradition.

Idaho is remote and has a small student body compared to other WAC schools. More bodies=more student fees. More citizens in your town=more opportunities to sell tickets.

The 'sleeping giant' known as Sac State is awakening.

http://www.csus.edu/union/wrec/project.html

and

http://www.sacbee.com/content/sports/story/8405663p-9335023c.html

At least Sac State has visuals and donors lined up. More than I can say for Idaho.

Best of luck UI, you are a respected institution, just located in BFE.

And Sac State was an associate member of the WAC in baseball and softball.

New baseball facility built last year:

http://www.hornetsports.com/sports/baseball/hornetfield/field.asp

and a new softball facility was built at the same time.

Uhh, I'm not so sure about that. I believe San Jose State fits one of your descriptions and they're talking like they might be out of I-A soon. Perhaps the only schools that will survive at non-BCS level will have 30,000+ students, a large metro home base to get support from, and have a winning tradition, or a firm committment to I-A from that school's administration??


No doubt U of Idaho is remote. It's located in the Palouse region of the Pacific Northwest (how many posters can actually show me where that is, besides Pounder, ;D ) where cows probably outnumber people. (reminds me of Drain, Oregon) Despite the disadvantages you mention, SacAttack, Idaho does have a strong committment to I-A from its administration, something San Jose State does not have. Could Idaho's student body increase? Possibly, but it's not going to happen with Idaho competing in the Sunbelt, where it's already bleeding red ink all over the place. Think about it, Sac Attack, which schools would you like to see more: Boise State, Hawaii, and Utah State or UL-Monroe, Florida International, and Troy State?
I rest my case. ;)


Very interesting information on Sacramento State, btw.

[quote author=DawgNDuckFan link=board=1a&thread=1068734084&start=84#5 date=1078429633]

No doubt U of Idaho is remote. It's located in the Palouse region of the Pacific Northwest (how many posters can actually show me where that is, besides Pounder, ;D ) where cows probably outnumber people. (reminds me of Drain, Oregon) Despite the disadvantages you mention, SacAttack, Idaho does have a strong committment to I-A from its administration, something San Jose State does not have. Could Idaho's student body increase? Possibly, but it's not going to happen with Idaho competing in the Sunbelt, where it's already bleeding red ink all over the place. Think about it, Sac Attack, which schools would you like to see more: Boise State, Hawaii, and Utah State or UL-Monroe, Florida International, and Troy State?
I rest my case. ;)

Cows outnumber people? LMAO! ;) It isn't quite that bad here, but yes we are very remote. This school has about 12,000 students on its way to 15-18k within 10 years. The area has many supporters. We aren't very far from CDA and Spokane. We get a lot of supporters from there. Boise alums (which BTW happen to number in the 40K range) get up here quite often. Many have children that go to school here now. Homecoming and Parents' weekends are pretty big around here.

All I'm arguing is this fact: Idaho is committed to staying in 1-A, both at the administration level, athletic level and state board level. Idaho has enough to stay. We can manipulate the attendance requirement, will meet the Title IX requirements, and will be able to stay. Yet I agree that the SunBelt is not the conference for us. We need the WAC. If you buy the argument that some conferences are about the academic reputation, then Idaho would be an excellent addition. We are very good academically.

The comment by Boise State is no surprise. They have hated us for quite some time. I hope that with them having a new president and us having a new president, we can mend the intense hatred between the schools. I would much rather see it as a good rivalry. Not hatred, not trying to kill us any chance they get. BTW, the WAC commissioner is a BSU alum. Is it chance that BSU was invited with LaTech? They screwed us then, they will lobby against us now. There are new members in the WAC, so I don't think that Mr. Hawkins has a good grasp of the sentiment. Nevada-Reno has been a good playing partner in the past along with Utah State and NM State. I guess it would be a mute point should CUSA take LaTech. Who else would they add? I don't think North Texas would consider it...

The fact that we are remote hurts us. The fact that we have a small stadium hurts us. Do I think the move to 1-A was a bad idea? Yes. But we have moved and I think that moving down to 1-AA would hurt the school even more. I hope what happens is that Idaho gets into the WAC. If we are in the WAC (much to Boise State's dismay), we would be in a great regional conference, become competitive once again, and be able to get some student support around athletics (which has been severely lacking while we are in the SunBelt). If we don't get into the WAC, I think life will be very hard. Athletics, which has had 4 years of operating in the black, would go red quickly. Having all sports travel to the widespread SunBelt would hurt us badly. I think the same argument can be made for LaTech's budget if it ends up staying in the WAC.

Here are what I think are absolutes:

1. Idaho will remain in 1-A and meet all requirements.
2. Idaho has a firm commitment to 1-A by administration and athletics, needing a boost by students.
3. Idaho will forever be stuck in a small town. Moscow isn't growing very much. Student population is up quite a bit, but there are no businesses except service industry that are moving here.
4. We will get an outdoor stadium and a basketball arena in the future.

Those are my thoughts. Don't discount the ability to stay in 1-A. I think many of the "trouble" schools, ala Wyoming, San Jose State, MAC schools, will pull together to stay...

I don't follow SJSU so I am not privy to them officially discussing leaving IA. I know a lot of inuendo's, assumptions and guesstimations are being made by posters that think because SJSU is having difficulty drawing for football games, then they must be getting ready for solvency. They are in a low spot right now, they will bounce back.

Personally, I would love to see Sac grow into the WAC and have long term conference relations with our neighbors Nevada, Fresno and SJSU.

Sac has a new Prez and AD, both athletic minded and going all out to move Sac into big league status.

The Sac Prez and football coach both went to Fresno while Fresno was expanding. So, they know first hand how important athletics and football are to a university.

Being in North Carolina, I can't say that I really know much about Sac State or Idaho but I do know where BFE is located. 8-)
We have that in the south too, sorry East Carolina fans! Seriously, though, ECU has built a solid D-1 program because they play in an area rich with opponents at the D-1 level with ACC, SEC, Southern, CAA, etc. in their backyard. CUSA games are the ones that cost ECU the most travel.
Idaho and the WAC would both benefit in that they can create regional rivalries. The WAC departures were all about that fact that nobody in Houston or Dallas cared about games with SJSU, Boise, and even Fresno. I think that failed conferences have shown that you must create regional rivalries if you don't have the history. I wish school's moving up or looking for a better gig the best and I believe the sooner Idaho can get in a western conference, the better. Is Moscow really on the sunbelt of America? Is Ruston, La really western?
My only concern for the new ACC is BC and if they can enjoy the yankee cousin treatment here. But Duke is really a New England school after all so they will have a buddy in spirit. 8-)

I live in NC too. Triangle area, but went to Sac State. What area of NC are you in? I have many Pack, Heels and Pirate alum's in my office.

Wilmington area, it's great done here this week.