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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 5:20 pm 
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I think that eventually the WAC is going to fall below the minimum NCAA threshold and be forced to fold. The league lacks a core identity and a reasonable footprint. It has no direction or vision other than trying to stay alive. Its members are too far flung. Even if you tried to use NMSU, Grand Canyon, Utah Valley, and CSU-B as a geographic core you would have to find D-II schools in the area willing to move up and invest and that's hard to do due to the unstable nature of the conference and the faraway road trips to Chicago St, UMKC, UTRGV, and Seattle are not appealing. Most every member hopes to be invited elsewhere. Unless there is a movement in the Big Sky for football members to move up into FBS with Idaho and NMSU requiring the Big Sky to backfill with regional nonfootball schools the WAC members are going to be living on the edge of extinction.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 7:40 pm 
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If NMSU is added to the SBC this time around...then what will the WAC do to stay alive? Losing the best school in the conference can't be a good thing for recruiting new members.

If the WAC folds...where do the leftovers reside?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:08 am 
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mozilla wrote:
If NMSU is added to the SBC this time around...then what will the WAC do to stay alive? Losing the best school in the conference can't be a good thing for recruiting new members.

If the WAC folds...where do the leftovers reside?


If NMSU gets an invite by the SBC at any given time, the WAC would be force to fold operations as a conference if its commissioner couldn't find the right replacement school that must benefit for the rest of its members. For now, NMSU is being the most consistent school the WAC has on its membership for Oly sports (aside from football, which the conference dropped a few years ago after like 50 years of legacy in that sport). It's no secret that the conference has no core center, nor any good markets, but just a bunch of newcomers. Half of its members are in the West, with the others being in the South (UT-RGV) & the Midwest (UMKC & Chicago St.), making them look like outliners.

One alternative for the WAC to replace NMSU is to add like 2-3 schools that fit the core center of the conference's footprint, that benefits in TV, media and city markets respectively too. Some D-II schools like UC-Colorado Springs or Metro St. [Denver] should be stepping up to D-I, as well as Cal St.-LA [LA] or San Fransisco St. [Bay Area] or UCSD [San Diego]. When that happens, then they would need to find some quality schools for the South and the Midwest as well or in the Upper North (states like ND or SD or MT).

In case there aren't any schools to step up to join D-I, then those current schools will have to find better conference homes regional-wise. Like Seattle could return to the WCC, Cal St.-Bakersfield could the Big West (with most of its former D-II CCAA rivals), Chicago St. and UMKC would either returning to the SL or joining the HL, Grand Canyon and Utah Valley might be D-I Independents or join the Big West, UT-RGV might join the Southland.

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Last edited by jlog3000 on Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:51 am 
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WAC MB thread (previously posted in another thread)discussing report that the SBC will be conducting a campus visit later this week to WAC allsports member NMSU.Link at http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=451&f=2368&t=13993811


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 4:05 pm 
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jlog3000 wrote:
mozilla wrote:
If NMSU is added to the SBC this time around...then what will the WAC do to stay alive? Losing the best school in the conference can't be a good thing for recruiting new members.

If the WAC folds...where do the leftovers reside?


If NMSU gets an invite by the SBC at any given time, the WAC would be force to fold operations as a conference if its commissioner couldn't find the right replacement school that must benefit for the rest of its members. For now, NMSU is being the most consistent school the WAC has on its membership for Oly sports (aside from football, which the conference dropped a few years ago after like 50 years of legacy in that sport). It's no secret that the conference has no core center, nor any good markets, but just a bunch of newcomers. Half of its members are in the West, with the others being in the South (UT-RGV) & the Midwest (UMKC & Chicago St.), making them look like outliners.

One alternative for the WAC to replace NMSU is to add like 2-3 schools that fit the core center of the conference's footprint, that benefits in TV, media and city markets respectively too. Some D-II schools like UC-Colorado Springs or Metro St. [Denver] should be stepping up to D-I, as well as Cal St.-LA [LA] or San Fransisco St. [Bay Area] or UCSD [San Diego]. When that happens, then they would need to find some quality schools for the South and the Midwest as well or in the Upper North (states like ND or SD or MT).

In case there aren't any schools to step up to join D-I, then those current schools will have to find better conference homes regional-wise. Like Seattle could return to the WCC, Cal St.-Bakersfield could the Big West (with most of its former D-II CCAA rivals), Chicago St. and UMKC would either returning to the SL or joining the HL, Grand Canyon and Utah Valley might be D-I Independents or join the Big West, UT-RGV might join the Southland.


If the WAC couldn't put that plan into action WITH NMSU on the roster....how will the WAC proceed without NMSU on the roster?
Now, the WAC has even less cache, then when it did with NMSU.
If schools wouldn't join with NMSU...they will never come without NMSU.
The WAC is doomed without NMSU.
They should have added schools two or three years ago.

And, I have no idea how any of the existing schools will get into conferences that are above the WAC...like the HL, WCC or Big West?? Why would any of these conferences want a WAC program? If any of those conferences did want a WAC school....they could have had them a long time ago. Unfortunately, those conference have little desire for the WAC programs.

That's what the WAC gets for waiting sooooo looooong to make a move.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:46 am 
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jlog3000 wrote:

If NMSU gets an invite by the SBC at any given time, the WAC would be force to fold operations as a conference if its commissioner couldn't find the right replacement school that must benefit for the rest of its members. For now, NMSU is being the most consistent school the WAC has on its membership for Oly sports (aside from football, which the conference dropped a few years ago after like 50 years of legacy in that sport). It's no secret that the conference has no core center, nor any good markets, but just a bunch of newcomers. Half of its members are in the West, with the others being in the South (UT-RGV) & the Midwest (UMKC & Chicago St.), making them look like outliners.

One alternative for the WAC to replace NMSU is to add like 2-3 schools that fit the core center of the conference's footprint, that benefits in TV, media and city markets respectively too. Some D-II schools like UC-Colorado Springs or Metro St. [Denver] should be stepping up to D-I, as well as Cal St.-LA [LA] or San Fransisco St. [Bay Area] or UCSD [San Diego]. When that happens, then they would need to find some quality schools for the South and the Midwest as well or in the Upper North (states like ND or SD or MT).

In case there aren't any schools to step up to join D-I, then those current schools will have to find better conference homes regional-wise. Like Seattle could return to the WCC, Cal St.-Bakersfield could the Big West (with most of its former D-II CCAA rivals), Chicago St. and UMKC would either returning to the SL or joining the HL, Grand Canyon and Utah Valley might be D-I Independents or join the Big West, UT-RGV might join the Southland.


OK, I'm trying to rethink this a little....maybe with NMSU staying.
If the SBC rebuffs NMSU and heads a totally new direction by uniting the older SBC schools in the west division...and showing Idaho, NMSU, UTA and LRu the door in two years.
With LRu and UTA heading to the WAC.

With these two schools....the WAC has much more pull than it would have before. They would be able to start their division split(to lessen travel for each division) and start focusing on potential schools to recruit. Trying to get to 14 would be a possibility with the added DI programs. Maybe even Idaho rethinks leaving...with the prospect of downgrading to FCS?? A strong WAC has a much better chance of snagging new members.

On the list:
New Orleans, aTm CC in the east.
Idaho, Metro St(DII), or UCCS(DII) for the west

Which would total up something along these lines:

WAC east: Chi St, UMKC, LRu, UTA, RGV, CC, New Orleans
WAC west: Seattle, Idaho, Bakersfield, UVU, GCU, NMSU, Metro State
(BB would play a h/h with their 6 div rivals...then would play h/h with only three of the other division to further reduce travel)

So, depending on what the SBC does...the WAC could have a fighting chance. Question is...whether or not the WAC has enough in the tank to try and pull a couple of strong moves off?

If NMSU has prepared for both outcomes....things could work smoothly. If they haven't talked with UTA and LRu...then, who knows??


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:14 pm 
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The WAC schools better be praying that NMSU fails to get that full invite to the SBC. The loss of the best and longest tenured member will be disasterous for the league and further decrease their chances of snagging future members.

Aside from Bakersfield, I don't think any of the state schools have interest in playing in any conference that isn't made up of all California schools. Maybe a few non-football schools in Colorado soul be be convinced to move up together to form the "heart" of the conference but none have come forth yet. No one in FCS with a football team will touch this league. I think the best plan would be to try to lure away non-football schools in football leagues. Think of New Orleans, Little Rock, UTA, A&M CC, joining UTRGV in a southwestern cluster.

No one in the WAC is going to find a conference to take them in the current landscape:

The WCC doesn't want Seattle (thanks Gonzaga)
The Big West doesn't want Bakersfield (UC schools don't want to be a minority)
The Southland is too full for UTRGV (and they lack football)
The Big Sky is too full for Grand Canyon and Utah Valley (and they lack football)
The Summit might be pursuaded to forgive UMKC but Chicago St will not get to return

If they fall below the NCAA minimum I think the league remains as a scheduling alliance and the existing members will try to park as many of their sports as they can into affiliate relationships with other regional leagues.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:20 pm 
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Article out of Las Cruces(previously posted in another thread)discussing NMSU SBC allsports membership bid at http://www.lcsun-news.com/las_cruces_sp ... pportunity


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:23 pm 
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There are 24 FCS football programs between the Southland and Big Sky. The WAC should reorganize itself as the third western FCS league.

Big Sky:
Sacramento State
UC Davis (associate)
Cal Poly (associate)
Portland State
Eastern Washington
Idaho State
Montana
Montana State

WAC:
Weber State
Southern Utah
Northern Arizona
Northern Colorado
Houston Baptist
Abilene Christian
Incarnate Word
North Dakota

Southland:
Southeastern Louisiana
Northwestern State
McNeese State
Nicholls State
Central Arkansas
Lamar
Stephen F. Austin
Sam Houston State

The non-football members get placed accordingly - Idaho, Seattle, Utah Valley, and Bakersfield in the Big Sky; Grand Canyon, and UTRGV in the WAC; and New Orleans and Texas A&M-Corpus Christi in the Southland. UMKC returns to the Summit and Chicago State is sentenced to the Atlantic Sun. This arrangement also maximizes a lot of the existing affiliate memberships the WAC has in place; North Dakota and Northern Colorado play baseball in the WAC, and the four Texas schools play men's soccer in the WAC.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 9:41 am 
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wbyeager wrote:
There are 24 FCS football programs between the Southland and Big Sky. The WAC should reorganize itself as the third western FCS league.

Big Sky:
Sacramento State
UC Davis (associate)
Cal Poly (associate)
Portland State
Eastern Washington
Idaho State
Montana
Montana State

WAC:
Weber State
Southern Utah
Northern Arizona
Northern Colorado
Houston Baptist
Abilene Christian
Incarnate Word
North Dakota

Southland:
Southeastern Louisiana
Northwestern State
McNeese State
Nicholls State
Central Arkansas
Lamar
Stephen F. Austin
Sam Houston State

The non-football members get placed accordingly - Idaho, Seattle, Utah Valley, and Bakersfield in the Big Sky; Grand Canyon, and UTRGV in the WAC; and New Orleans and Texas A&M-Corpus Christi in the Southland. UMKC returns to the Summit and Chicago State is sentenced to the Atlantic Sun. This arrangement also maximizes a lot of the existing affiliate memberships the WAC has in place; North Dakota and Northern Colorado play baseball in the WAC, and the four Texas schools play men's soccer in the WAC.


Very interesting and well thought out.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 11:38 am 
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That alignment would be brilliant if the parties involved could work it out. Regionalizing the western conferences would make a whole lot of sense. There are few things though:

Utah Valley ought to be with the other two Utah schools
The schools placed in the WAC group are a kind of disadvantaged plus they are getting stuck with the odd ball North Dakota. I'd try to work out something with the Summit/MVFC to swap them out for Denver
Bakersfield is in Southern California so it might be better for them to be grouped with the Arizona schools
I'd try to incorporate UTA and Little Rock in the plan as Southland members and move A&M CC to the WAC group with nearby UTRGV

Grouping all of these schools is tough. So many considerations to think about.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 12:55 pm 
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fighting muskie wrote:
That alignment would be brilliant if the parties involved could work it out. Regionalizing the western conferences would make a whole lot of sense. There are few things though:

Utah Valley ought to be with the other two Utah schools
The schools placed in the WAC group are a kind of disadvantaged plus they are getting stuck with the odd ball North Dakota. I'd try to work out something with the Summit/MVFC to swap them out for Denver
Bakersfield is in Southern California so it might be better for them to be grouped with the Arizona schools
I'd try to incorporate UTA and Little Rock in the plan as Southland members and move A&M CC to the WAC group with nearby UTRGV

Grouping all of these schools is tough. So many considerations to think about.


A few other schools to think about throwing in the mix:

Tarleton St, Angelo St, W. Texas A/M, or the almost created West Florida, and the non fb playing Metro State. Any of these schools could fill in a spot if needed.

Or, if they combined A&M Kingsville with A&M CorpusChristie....then, they would have a really solid fb and Oly sport school. They aren't very far apart??? UT is covering much more territory with their RGV project.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:38 am 
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Article out of Lafayette(previously posted in another thread)reporting that SBC Presidents are expected to meet in Dallas tomorrow to vote on possible league expansion.WAC allsports member NMSU is reportedly under consideration.Link at http://www.theadvertiser.com/story/spor ... n/71349570


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