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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:27 am 
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I thought NJIT was going to the America East in 2015.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 11:18 am 
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Hadn't heard anything like that. NJIT is working to position themselves to be an attactive expansion candidate for a northeastern conference,
and they've talked to the American East, the NEC, the MAAC. So far, not takers.

A few years ago, they were awful at most D-1 sports, and their facilites wer poor.

So NJIT has been pouring some resources into that, and their BB team seems to be gaining respectability.
I had heard they are trying to raise some big bucks for a new Atletics Center. Not sure how that is going.
Once they address competitiveness and facilities, they should be much moe attractive when one of those confrences needs a new member.

As for now, they are the lone independent in D-1 (in terms of no conference home for their oly sports).


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 11:32 am 
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tute79 wrote:
Hadn't heard anything like that. NJIT is working to position themselves to be an attactive expansion candidate for a northeastern conference,
and they've talked to the American East, the NEC, the MAAC. So far, not takers.

A few years ago, they were awful at most D-1 sports, and their facilites wer poor.

So NJIT has been pouring some resources into that, and their BB team seems to be gaining respectability.
I had heard they are trying to raise some big bucks for a new Atletics Center. Not sure how that is going.
Once they address competitiveness and facilities, they should be much moe attractive when one of those confrences needs a new member.

As for now, they are the lone independent in D-1 (in terms of no conference home for their oly sports).


Speaking of facility upgrades, how about having those big bucks to be raised (and saving them) to build a new indoor multi-purpose sports area with at least 4,000 to 5,000 seats of capacity, but on-campus (to replace their current indoor arena of the Estelle & Zoom Fleisher Athletic Center that has like 1,500)? If not, why not NJIT share an indoor arena like the Izod Center or the Prudential Center (where Seton Hall men's & women's basketball plays; and which NJIT basketball is partially played, but should be full-time)?

Anyways, back to the WAC conversation, how about having North Dakota as a possible expansion candidate for all-sports? After all, they're playing baseball for the league as an affiliate. Plus, the school is trying to be "the lone wolf" from the other Dakota schools, since they joined the Big Sky.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:28 pm 
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The Big Sky is way better and far more stable than the WAC--no chance UND moves there


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:45 pm 
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With some recent discussion regarding UMKCs possible move back to the Summit.....

Got me to thinking what will happen to the lowly WAC? And, what schools are there for the WAC to choose from?

I fear that if the conference looses Kansas City....that Chicago State will feel a bunch of pressure to find a closer home....like the A-Sun, Ohio Valley, Summit?, other?. Mostly because there is even less of a guarantee that the WAC will stay alive. But, maybe Chi State doesn't mind all the travel??

Also, if NMSU....ever gets that full invite to the SBC??? That will all but destroy the WAC, if they haven't replaced some of these schools before that time.

So anyway....who is there to choose from for the WAC?

DI: NJIT, ?
DII: Metro State, ?

I just really don't know about the WAC. I would have figured that they would push hard for another addition....but, there hasn't been anything about new schools that I have heard.
How many members does it take to keep a conference alive? 5? 6?

I don't know if any of the others will find their way to better homes....but, as has been said....Everyone wants out of the WAC.
Pretty sad for a once proud conference.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 8:13 am 
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mozilla wrote:
With some recent discussion regarding UMKCs possible move back to the Summit.....

Got me to thinking what will happen to the lowly WAC? And, what schools are there for the WAC to choose from?

I fear that if the conference looses Kansas City....that Chicago State will feel a bunch of pressure to find a closer home....like the A-Sun, Ohio Valley, Summit?, other?. Mostly because there is even less of a guarantee that the WAC will stay alive. But, maybe Chi State doesn't mind all the travel??

Also, if NMSU....ever gets that full invite to the SBC??? That will all but destroy the WAC, if they haven't replaced some of these schools before that time.

So anyway....who is there to choose from for the WAC?

DI: NJIT, ?
DII: Metro State, ?

I just really don't know about the WAC. I would have figured that they would push hard for another addition....but, there hasn't been anything about new schools that I have heard.
How many members does it take to keep a conference alive? 5? 6?

I don't know if any of the others will find their way to better homes....but, as has been said....Everyone wants out of the WAC.
Pretty sad for a once proud conference.


Like you said Mozilla. The WAC WAS once a proud conference, which is totally sad and disheartening for true WAC fans. Besides, there had been great sports moments within that conference's past (such as Utah became the 1st school from the WAC to participate in the NCAA Final Four, and ALMOST winning a national championship for the conference, who lost to Kentucky in the 1997-98 season); especially in football to make it one of the best mid-major D-I-A/FBS conferences, and here are such as the following:

a.) when BYU brought the conference's only pure and legal national championship in football back in 1984
b.) when Air Force was on the road to be the 2nd school from that conference to achieve at least a national title game in 1985 (also making back-to-back, conference-wise), which was fell short to lose against then-defending champ & conference mate BYU, but ended in the top 10 within the polls (#5 in Coaches & #8 in AP, with #4 as highest peak before losing to BYU on the road)
c.) when Boise St. became the 2nd team in the BCS era (the 1st was former WAC member & current MW member Utah in the 2004 season) and 3rd from the conference to at least be ranked in the top 10 in the polls, but also the 1st from the conference to participate a BCS bowl game (and winning it, like the 2007 Fiesta Bowl)
d.) when Hawaii became the 2nd team from the conference to participate in a BCS game (despite losing in the 2008 Sugar Bowl, with an impressive unbeaten regular season)
e.) at one point, the WAC champ hosted/participated in the Fiesta Bowl

However, there had been some negatives, such as having an unstable rotation when it became the 1st conference to have at least the maximum of 16 members, which started division play and it lasted for a few years, and eventually losing some of the well-talented football-sponsoring full member schools to the younger and fresher MW (i.e.: Boise St. in 2011, Nevada & Fresno St. in 2012, Hawaii in 2012 for fb-only, Utah St. in 2013); the Sun Belt (Texas St. & UTA in 2013); and C-USA (Louisiana Tech & UTSA in 2013) all due to the 2010's conference realignment (ironically, Denver was the only non-fb member to leave the WAC, only to join the Summit in 2013).

With those being said, I think that MORE than ever the WAC must find replacements and FAST! For instance, some Mountain & Pacific States schools like Metro State (of the D-II RMAC) or UC-San Diego (of the D-II CCAA) or such should fill up. But in case they can't find any schools to replace, then the WAC would certainly be doomed. Besides, the minimum number for an NCAA D-I conference to at least keep an AQ alive for sponsoring all sports is at least 6 (7 with FCS football, and 8 with FBS football), but I'm sure it's 8 for all-sports status in general. And the following possible scenarios might occur if the WAC doesn't put things together (if the return of UMKC to the Summit is officially & successfully confirmed):

a.) NMSU might re-join the Sun Belt as an all-sports member (good travel partner for Texas St. & UTA), or join C-USA (good travel partner for UTEP)
b.) Chicago St. should either re-join the Summit, join the Horizon or re-join the D-I Indy ranks
c.) Utah Valley might join the MW as an Oly sports member (to fill up & neutralize Hawaii's fb-only spot) or join the Big Sky
d.) Cal State-Bakersfield might join the Big West
e.) Grand Canyon might join the D-I Indy ranks
f.) Seattle might re-join the WCC or join the Big Sky
g.) UTPA (soon to be UTRVG) might join the Southland or re-join the Sun Belt or re-join the D-I Indy ranks

So far, those are the only things I could think of, until there's any more scoop with the rumors of UMKC's possible conference shift.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:45 pm 
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Mozilla-I'm curious as to where you heard about UMKC returning to the Summit? Can you give us your link or source? leaving a stable conference for a dumpster fire never made sense for the Kangaroos.

As we all know, the WAC is a mess. No one wants to truly be there and if dominoes start falling they are going to lose their AQ status and tournament bid. There are a few scenarios I could see where we might see some stability:

Some of the better Big Sky schools go FBS and form a new league--this could cause the Big Sky to back fill with WAC schools near the footprint--Utah Valley, Seattle, Grand Canyon and maybe Cal St-Bakersfield would in the running (My assumption is that NMSU would be in the new FBS league) With the odd number of members in football in the Big Sky right now Utah Valley or Grand Canyon might even be able to get a call up if they start an FCS program now.

Another thought would be for the WAC to doggedly pursue schools who are disadvantaged and/or unwanted in their current leagues. UALR, UT-Arlington, New Orleans, and Texas A&M-CC would make a nice central time zone block and would give the conference an anchor region. Give these schools perks--give them a reason to want to join. Sell them on the chance to go to the big dance. Sell them on division play among each other, UTRGV, UMKC, and Chicago St. If they can get a dialogue going, their current conferences might let them out without exit fees simply so they can redefine their leagues as strictly football-playing conferences.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 8:16 am 
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fighting muskie wrote:
Mozilla-I'm curious as to where you heard about UMKC returning to the Summit? Can you give us your link or source? leaving a stable conference for a dumpster fire never made sense for the Kangaroos.

As we all know, the WAC is a mess. No one wants to truly be there and if dominoes start falling they are going to lose their AQ status and tournament bid. There are a few scenarios I could see where we might see some stability:

Some of the better Big Sky schools go FBS and form a new league--this could cause the Big Sky to back fill with WAC schools near the footprint--Utah Valley, Seattle, Grand Canyon and maybe Cal St-Bakersfield would in the running (My assumption is that NMSU would be in the new FBS league) With the odd number of members in football in the Big Sky right now Utah Valley or Grand Canyon might even be able to get a call up if they start an FCS program now.

Another thought would be for the WAC to doggedly pursue schools who are disadvantaged and/or unwanted in their current leagues. UALR, UT-Arlington, New Orleans, and Texas A&M-CC would make a nice central time zone block and would give the conference an anchor region. Give these schools perks--give them a reason to want to join. Sell them on the chance to go to the big dance. Sell them on division play among each other, UTRGV, UMKC, and Chicago St. If they can get a dialogue going, their current conferences might let them out without exit fees simply so they can redefine their leagues as strictly football-playing conferences.


Sorry, I should have noted that we were talking about this subject in the Summit Forum(on this site). I don't know if there was ever a credible source??


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:42 pm 
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The trouble with rebuilding the WAC is that it has no appeal whatsoever to new members. It's unstable, geographically a mess, and has no definitive direction or vision. For a conference to be successful it needs to have a reasonable geographic footprint in order to facilitate easy, cost effective travel and to create a sense of cohesion and shared identity. The WAC identity is essentially "we're the schools no one else wanted and we couldn't even find enough members on the same side of the Rockies, let alone the Mississippi."


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:19 am 
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fighting muskie wrote:
The trouble with rebuilding the WAC is that it has no appeal whatsoever to new members. It's unstable, geographically a mess, and has no definitive direction or vision. For a conference to be successful it needs to have a reasonable geographic footprint in order to facilitate easy, cost effective travel and to create a sense of cohesion and shared identity. The WAC identity is essentially "we're the schools no one else wanted and we couldn't even find enough members on the same side of the Rockies, let alone the Mississippi."


The institutional likeness thing couldn't hurt, either. On another forum, someone talked about Denver making its departure as hastily as able because of wanting no part of GCU and the potential word of Metro State being in the pipeline, as well as not being too thrilled with Chicago State, either.

What could likely befall the WAC is its place as the island of misfit toys...schools with issues and enemies who can't get a break from another conference. That's not what the WAC wants, but it's potentially more stable than trying to rely on other schools "just passing through." Weirdly enough, add Metro State to UVU, GCU, CSU...you start to get a core.

This conference may just need to expand to anticipate the UMKC's, SU's, NMSU's, Bakerfield's, and UTPA's future moves. Hey, at some point, they're going to. Why get weighed down with that?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 1:42 pm 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
fighting muskie wrote:
The trouble with rebuilding the WAC is that it has no appeal whatsoever to new members. It's unstable, geographically a mess, and has no definitive direction or vision. For a conference to be successful it needs to have a reasonable geographic footprint in order to facilitate easy, cost effective travel and to create a sense of cohesion and shared identity. The WAC identity is essentially "we're the schools no one else wanted and we couldn't even find enough members on the same side of the Rockies, let alone the Mississippi."


The institutional likeness thing couldn't hurt, either. On another forum, someone talked about Denver making its departure as hastily as able because of wanting no part of GCU and the potential word of Metro State being in the pipeline, as well as not being too thrilled with Chicago State, either.

What could likely befall the WAC is its place as the island of misfit toys...schools with issues and enemies who can't get a break from another conference. That's not what the WAC wants, but it's potentially more stable than trying to rely on other schools "just passing through." Weirdly enough, add Metro State to UVU, GCU, CSU...you start to get a core.

This conference may just need to expand to anticipate the UMKC's, SU's, NMSU's, Bakerfield's, and UTPA's future moves. Hey, at some point, they're going to. Why get weighed down with that?


Right now there pretty much the Great West with a auto bid. I actually think that some schools might want the WAC to survive. The reason is that is could be the western feeder conference. On the east coast you have the American east and Atlantic sun. On the west and mountain you could have the WAC. The WAC could be positioned better because they have a tv deals (other then digital or ESPN3) I think the other conference might like to have a safety net conference for their schools. I know Portland stat was hurting for money a couple of years ago and was thinking of cutting football. If the Big Sky decides to kick out non football schools then Portland state could go to the WAC.(Idaho could go back) The WAC could position itself as a place to park Olympic sports for schools or conferences that want football only memberships.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 11:48 am 
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I don't know if the auto-bid really does anything for them, though. I mean, it justifies the expense and upkeep of certain programs, and it's obviously a motivator, but I've wondered how you recruit if you're in that conference? Are you going to the dregs and saying "hey, at least you can play Division 1?" That's not much of a sell for certain schools, although I know it probably is for those like GCU.

If programs want it to survive, it's all the additional work these programs take on to find new, hopefully stable homes, as well as being able to back its programs' recruiters up with some semblance of a confident response on the trail. Some of these programs...this is all they've got beyond independence. And they can ask NJIT how that's working out.

Unlike American East (not as weak as it is perceived now that it lost its Boston bully) and the Atlantic Sun, WAC's footprint is obscene, and there isn't any sort of cultural, institutional, or geographical bond to it. If AE and AS are the next conferences above WAC from the bottom, that divide is massive.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 6:30 pm 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
I don't know if the auto-bid really does anything for them, though. I mean, it justifies the expense and upkeep of certain programs, and it's obviously a motivator, but I've wondered how you recruit if you're in that conference? Are you going to the dregs and saying "hey, at least you can play Division 1?" That's not much of a sell for certain schools, although I know it probably is for those like GCU.

If programs want it to survive, it's all the additional work these programs take on to find new, hopefully stable homes, as well as being able to back its programs' recruiters up with some semblance of a confident response on the trail. Some of these programs...this is all they've got beyond independence. And they can ask NJIT how that's working out.

Unlike American East (not as weak as it is perceived now that it lost its Boston bully) and the Atlantic Sun, WAC's footprint is obscene, and there isn't any sort of cultural, institutional, or geographical bond to it. If AE and AS are the next conferences above WAC from the bottom, that divide is massive.


You are right about America East. They aren't weak; they are small because they want to be. They could raid the NEC if they wanted to but at the moment none of those schools fills any of their needs. It would only make sense if they were taking over sponsorship of CAA football or decided to part with CAA and needed Central Connecticut St for numbers. Monmouth would be another potential add.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:59 am 
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Going a bit off-topic from the WAC, but seeing those last posts remind me of something. How about the current AmEast schools who play Olympic sports (Maine, New Hampshire, etc.) go to the CAA as full members? Or the AmEast sponsor football by grabbing their already full members who play football in the CAA?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:08 pm 
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I'd say it's more likely America East sponsors football, as Albany, Maine, Stony Brook, and New Hampshire aren't really wanted in the CAA as full members. I don't think we'll see any movement there unless if the 12-member CAA football league decides it is too big for its own good, or someone else in the AE starts a football program.

The WAC could very well turn into an FCS conference, but it will take a scheduled commitment to football from all involved. Seattle and Grand Canyon would be good candidates for non-scholarship football; the WAC could then grab San Diego as an affiliate, and perhaps 3 other schools would start programs-if Chicago State is one, Drake from the Pioneer League can become an affiliate since they fall in the WAC footprint.


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