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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 10:27 am 
Commonly, I am from Louisiana and have many Cajun alumni and friends.

It is commonly known as USL or University of Southwestern Louisiana.

This recent name game is pointless, the school in Lafayette is known as USL, The University of Louisiana has campuses in Monroe, Alexandria and Shreveport in addition to Lafayette.

Don't try to make a silk purse out of a sows ear.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 11:08 am 
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We are referred to some as Louisiana, others as Louisiana-Lafayette, and by others as both as evidenced by the Andy Katz article below. We quit being USL in 1999. We prefer "Louisiana" for reasons explained at the following site if anyone wants to know: http://www.angelfire.com/la3/ulragincajuns/battle.html. But that's neither here or there. I don't try to ram politics down peoples' throats. Let's confine ourselves to sports, shall we?

http://sports-att.espn.go.com/ncb/ncaatourney04/columns/story?columnist=katz_andy&id=1761903

FRIDAY'S GAMES
Orlando, Fla.

(6) Vanderbilt vs. (11) Western Michigan: How will a Western Michigan team capable of more than just one win this week handle the spotlight of the NCAA Tournament? How will Ben Reed and Mike Williams deal with Vanderbilt's strong, physical play? How will Steve Hawkins coach on the biggest stage in his career?

(3) NC State vs. (14) Louisiana-Lafayette: Will the Wolfpack play like they did in finishing second during the ACC's regular season? Will the Wolfpack be able to get the necessary spacing against a more frenzied Louisiana team? Will Louisiana be able to translate its close losses in "up" games against Arizona, Xavier and Dayton into playing well enough to beat NC State?





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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 10:09 pm 
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We are referred to some as Louisiana, others as Louisiana-Lafayette, and by others as both as evidenced by the Andy Katz article below. We quit being USL in 1999. We prefer "Louisiana" for reasons explained at the following site if anyone wants to know: http://www.angelfire.com/la3/ulragincajuns/battle.html. But that's neither here or there. I don't try to ram politics down peoples' throats. Let's confine ourselves to sports, shall we?

http://sports-att.espn.go.com/ncb/ncaatourney04/columns/story?columnist=katz_andy&id=1761903

FRIDAY'S GAMES
Orlando, Fla.

(6) Vanderbilt vs. (11) Western Michigan: How will a Western Michigan team capable of more than just one win this week handle the spotlight of the NCAA Tournament? How will Ben Reed and Mike Williams deal with Vanderbilt's strong, physical play? How will Steve Hawkins coach on the biggest stage in his career?

(3) NC State vs. (14) Louisiana-Lafayette: Will the Wolfpack play like they did in finishing second during the ACC's regular season? Will the Wolfpack be able to get the necessary spacing against a more frenzied Louisiana team? Will Louisiana be able to translate its close losses in "up" games against Arizona, Xavier and Dayton into playing well enough to beat NC State?





This was an interesting and informative article. Thanks California Cajun.

I grew up in Natchez, Mississippi, which is right across the "Father of Waters" from Vidalia, LA and a mere 80 miles north of Baton Rouge....one of those border cities that reports just as much of the news and happenings from the neighboring state as from it's own. In fact there are as many LSU fans and alums in Natchez as MSU, Ole Miss, and USM combined. I graduated many years ago, but moved to St. Francisville, LA and worked for the state of Lousiana from 1998-2002.

And yet, I have NEVER....and I mean NEVER, NEVER, NEVER heard of a "THE University of Louisiana" until a few months ago on this forum. Now, granted, I don't visit other forums, but I keep up to date with most beezwax in college sports, etc. ALL I have EVER heard of is ULL, UL-L, UL-Lafayette, La.-Lafayette, and Louisiana-Lafayette. Frankly, I didn't think there was anything wrong with the former name. All the above mentioned stuff just seems like such a mouthful. I actually thought "USL" was kind of cool. It rolled out of one's mouth as smoothly as LSU, BYU, UCLA, NLU, UAB, USC, etc. Granted, I understand the reasoning for wanting to change the "regional" and "small" classification that a directional school invokes. USC gets away with it, but that's an entirely different sort of situation where tradition is concerned.

I'm not trying to pick an argument here. I guess I'm just pointing out that although ULL fans, alumni, etc. can call themselves Louisiana, everyone knows better. In fact, I think there is LESS recognition by doing so. Just look on your sports web sites. You'll NEVER see "NC State vs. Louisiana" on one of these sites....NEVER....not even if ULM drops to I-AA. So, in light of that fact, "NC-State vs. La.-Lafayette" seems ridiculous when "NC State vs. USL (or SW La.) looks better, sounds better, and is instantly recognized rather than envoking questions such as "who the heck is La.-Lafayette and when did they move up to Div. 1 basketball?" (Which is not an invalid question with all the such and such at such and such showing up lately in NCAA roundball...TAMCC, TAMK, IUPW, etc.). I like USL...oops...ULL... ;D...but I am actually embarrassed to admit that when I saw the new names (ULL and ULM) several years ago, I actually didn't make the connection at first!!

For me, they will always be affectionately known as the USL Ragin' Cajuns!!!


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 10:13 pm 
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By the way folks...can anyone actually tell me who IPUW is?

Logic tells me the Indiana-Purdue part.....but I cannot find any reference to them other than IPUW.

Thanks!!! ???


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 12:28 pm 
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This was an interesting and informative article. Thanks California Cajun.


I appreciate the fact that you took time to read the article. We assert ourselves as Louisiana because the UL name was unlawfully and unconstitutionally taken away from us and we intend to reclaim it, if only in popular name. We solicit your support in calling us Louisiana.

The reason for abandoning "USL" was because, as a professor friend of mine said, "When you are introduced in academic circles as being from 'Southwestern' Louisiana your stock goes down." Our athletic director received a letter mis-addressed to Southeastern Louisiana. Ron Guidry pitched in the World Series and Joe Garagiola said with millions watching that he attended the University of 'Southern' Louisiana. In other words, when we did something right, the accomplishment was obscured by the name of the school.

I want to steer the discussion back to conference realignment, and in so doing I can tell you of a conversation our president had with the president of the University of Memphis. He wanted the UM president to support him in an effort to get into another conference, but the UM president said, "Doc, I just can't sell 'Southwestern Louisiana.'"

UL graduates and supporters check these boards because they want a more favorable conference situation for their athletics. Now that our $100 million goal for academics has been reach, the attention has been turned to athletics. Would someone in your conference rather be in a conference with USL, ULL, or UL?

Thanks for taking the time to listen. What you call us is certainly your choice. I am using the name that we feel is rightly ours, and one we feel we will eventually reclaim.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 4:18 pm 
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I grew up in Natchez, Mississippi, which is right across the "Father of Waters" from Vidalia, LA and a mere 80 miles north of Baton Rouge....one of those border cities that reports just as much of the news and happenings from the neighboring state as from it's own. In fact there are as many LSU fans and alums in Natchez as MSU, Ole Miss, and USM combined. I graduated many years ago, but moved to St. Francisville, LA and worked for the state of Lousiana from 1998-2002.


My wife's extended family is based in Hattiesburg, my mother-in-law graduated from USM and my father-in-law graduated from Mississippi State. We admire what both schools have accomplished and UL hopes to perform at the level USM does in the near future. One of our graduates is a faculty member at MSU and he can tell you everything about the academic standing of the various universities. Mississippi State has a phenominal record for research and development, certainly tops in the state. One reason why we feel the Louisiana name is important is because we outdistance the schools that we have been traditionally associated with. Our struggles with football, which we are taking steps to bring to an end, really paints an inaccurate picture of what we're all about.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:23 pm 
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By the way folks...can anyone actually tell me who IPUW is?

Logic tells me the Indiana-Purdue part.....but I cannot find any reference to them other than IPUW.

Thanks!!! ???

I assume you mean IPFW = Indiana Purude Fort Wayne

No other school acronym comes close.

They recently followed IUPUI to Division I.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 3:24 pm 
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Yep, that's it. Knew it was something like that. Thanks.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 8:03 am 
We assert ourselves as Louisiana because the UL name was unlawfully and unconstitutionally taken away from us and we intend to reclaim it, if only in popular nameYou act like ULL is some private entity whose assests were expropriated. ULL is owned by the taxpayers, is subject to the whim of the taxpayers and they, via their representatives, can call you what they choose.

He wanted the UM president to support him in an effort to get into another conference, but the UM president said, "oc, I just can't sell 'Southwestern Louisiana.'"
That converstation, if it happened, happened 20 years ago. In the meantime, C-USA has added University of Alabama Birmingham, East Carolina and recently added Central Florida and has North Texas on its short list. If you think name is the reason ULL isn't in C-USA, you haven't been paying attention.

One reason why we feel the Louisiana name is important is because we outdistance the schools that we have been traditionally associated with. ULL was traditionally associated with McNeese, NW State---->you've left them 25 years ago and no one associates you with them.
YOu also were and are currently associated with La Tech, Monroe and UNO---->have you outdistanced them? Your funding is the same, your academic standing is the same, some of your teams are better and some aren't.
Take La Tech --->they certainly have a football program well above ULL, and if they get into C-USA it will be by default. And this is WITH relationships with future current teams, relationships that ULL does NOT have. ULL has no intrinsic aids (like a market, compelling academics, national recognition, relationships with current teams) that will get them in with a mediocre athletic program. ULL needs something that will blow their socks off- like a football program or a NCAA tourney quality basketball program (a NIT team this year, in the NCAAs via a weak league). You probably have 3 years to get it done. Meanwhile, the So Fla schools, and MTSU and UNT also probably have that time-frame.
Good luck



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 8:14 am 
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We assert ourselves as Louisiana because the UL name was unlawfully and unconstitutionally taken away from us and we intend to reclaim it, if only in popular nameYou act like ULL is some private entity whose assests were expropriated. ULL is owned by the taxpayers, is subject to the whim of the taxpayers and they, via their representatives, can call you what they choose.

uh, not really. The taxpayers do contribute some $$ to the university but not nearly as much as the students, the students parents, and the alumni do. It is not a complete private entity, but its not entirely public either. Does the public of Louisiana have a right to rename LSU if they so desire?

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He wanted the UM president to support him in an effort to get into another conference, but the UM president said, "oc, I just can't sell 'Southwestern Louisiana.'"
That converstation, if it happened, happened 20 years ago. In the meantime, C-USA has added University of Alabama Birmingham, East Carolina and recently added Central Florida and has North Texas on its short list. If you think name is the reason ULL isn't in C-USA, you haven't been paying attention.

The name might indeed be part of the problem, but it isn't all of the problem as you have speculated.

Quote:

One reason why we feel the Louisiana name is important is because we outdistance the schools that we have been traditionally associated with. ULL was traditionally associated with McNeese, NW State---->you've left them 25 years ago and no one associates you with them.
YOu also were and are currently associated with La Tech, Monroe and UNO---->have you outdistanced them? Your funding is the same, your academic standing is the same, some of your teams are better and some aren't.
Take La Tech --->they certainly have a football program well above ULL, and if they get into C-USA it will be by default. And this is WITH relationships with future current teams, relationships that ULL does NOT have. ULL has no intrinsic aids (like a market, compelling academics, national recognition, relationships with current teams) that will get them in with a mediocre athletic program. ULL needs something that will blow their socks off- like a football program or a NCAA tourney quality basketball program (a NIT team this year, in the NCAAs via a weak league).

UL-L does have something that sets it apart, believe it or not: success in college baseball. Rice definitely did NOT get into CUSA based on its football or basketball merits!!!


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 9:54 am 
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JD,

I certainly don't think your post is accurate. But it contributes nothing to the subject of Sun Belt realignment to debate it.

The reason I come here is because I run a Sun Belt message board and am always on the lookout for interesting articles people run across that I can pass along. UL is only one of many SBC schools anxiously awaiting future developments.

Speaking of Louisiana Tech, they've earned a CUSA invitation more than the other candidates, because they had the guts to roll the dice and join the WAC. They won a conference championship in football.


DawgNDuck Fan,

Regardless of your beliefs, thank you for your remarks. This message board has a reputation for friendliness and mutual respect, and from what I can tell you epitomize that very well.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 12:19 pm 
Cali-Cajun, allow me to add my moral support to your cause, though in the meantime UL-L isn't all together sad. I read the article as well and have some familiarity with the issue: A college friend was marrying his high school sweetheart in Baton Rouge. She was an LSU grad who gave us visitors a tour of the campus and had to explain some sign we saw advocating LSU as "THE university of Lousiana." (She could care less, by the way)

My advice, then, is twofold:

- Continue to assert yourselves as UL as often as possible and build the public perception. Use really, really small print on the "LaFayette" part! Ignore it all together in informal settings. Over time, hopefully, people will simply recognize the name as U of L and someday you can revisit the issue in the legislature.

- Tell your LSU friends (if they care) that those of us in civilization think a college should be free to name itself what it wants so long as it's not one already taken. Any attempt to stifle a change for political reasons is trite. In essence, if LSU is sooooo concerned about its image in this manner, it simply will make the whole state look that much more stupid to the rest of the nation. What? Are they trying to make Alabama look good?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 2:07 pm 
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Gunner,

What I have never understood is why LSU didn't take the University of Louisiana name for themselves 100 years ago if they don't want anyone to have it except in watered down form. You snooze, you lose. We would have been fine with Louisiana State. It would have met our goals of having a non-regional name without the city tag.

LSU couldn't have it when it first opened in 1860 because Tulane preexisted as the University of Louisiana. But thereafter the original UL stopped operating due to lack of funding until Paul Tulane helped them out in the 1880s. UL renamed itself The Tulane University of Louisiana in his honor.

LSUNO and the LSU Law Center were renamed UNO and the Hebert Law Center in the 1970s using the same procedure as USL was renamed UL. That is, with the permission of the immediate management board above them. Legislative approval was not needed. The UNO and Hebert names stuck, but the UL name was struck down by the legislature and judges and LSU has the only public law school in the state. You can't have it both ways forever. Lawyers arguing against the UL change said "the board was young and the state constitution was new" when the other names were awarded, but that excuse doesn't fly. I'd be ashamed to make an argument like that. You only say something like that when you're desperate. Whether someone thinks UL is worthy of the name based on his perception of the university's size and scope, or status in athletics, has nothing to do with this. No qualifications were attached to the awarding of the name.

For 15 years UL tried to get the name back through the LSU-controlled legislature and finally in 1995, they let the management board (the Board of Trustees for State Colleges and Universities) change its name to the University of Louisiana System. It also said that any of its member schools could have the UL name provided that at least two schools seek it, and the city tag would be attached. It took four years for Northeast Louisiana University to agree to the change, so in 1999 USL changed to UL at Lafayette and NLU changed to UL at Monroe.

We think that's dirty pool. In my mind, ULM is an innocent bystander which was used by LSU to ensure that no one would ever have the Louisiana name except in watered down form. We won't accept that. Ever. ;)In Louisiana politics there was no choice but to take the Louisiana-Lafayette option or else be doomed to being Southwestern Louisiana forever.

The enemy is not ULM, it is LSU. I like ULM and have personal friends from there. We try to look at the name thing as a positive, and among ourselves we refer to our annual football game as The Battle of Louisiana. We try to play the last scheduled game of the year. One way LSU maintains its preeminence is that they stir up trouble and get the other schools to hate each other. Plus, as I mentioned earlier, they have the only public law school and most legislators and judges are lawyers.

Sorry for the long-windedness, but this is something that I have been involved in since 1974, my freshman year in college, when we had a student referendum on campus. That first referendum lost, and I got the chance to meet the President, he consoled me, and said that we'd try again. Some older people say the movement started back in 1960 when we first achieved university status. When you've had a goal in mind for 30-45 years, you will never give up.

We will ultimately prevail, and I do thank you for your support. I brought all of this up for the sole reason that in previous posting I refered to ourselves as Louisiana, and I was criticized for doing so. You don't hear me running down people for what they choose to call their alma mater. There is no desire on my part to start a debate without provocation. This board has a reputation for being friendly and staying on topic. Hopefully now everyone has had his say and we can get back to Sun Belt Conference Realignment.

Thanks for the opportunity to finish the story and hopefully find out what anyone knows about what's in store for the SBC. ;)


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 8:05 pm 
With names, there is always a mixture of history, state politics, location, and institutional characteristics abound. In Louisiana, LSU influence and idenity protection has had a lot to do with UL-L and UK-M, etc. I remember reading an article several years ago based on the UL initiative.
I would prefer that the public did not get caught up in names, but it is important. Heck, look at why so many schools dropped "college" from their name in preference for "University". Many that did so, are not comparatively that large, nor necessarily have vast and distinguished graduate programs. For private insitutions, changing a name may be less complicated than getting approval from a state network.
There are directional schools that have developed distinction in academics as well as sports. (We will leave the University of Southern California out of the mix for being private).
Cal-Davis, Cal Poly SLO, are very respected academically. No, they are not Cal-Berkeley in vastness and recognition. But, they are academically impressive.
Southern Illinois, Georgia Southern, Southern Mississippi, South Florida, Central Florida, Northern Illinois, Northern Arizona, Northern Iowa, among others, have garnered some recognizable distinctions nationally. Note, for most, the UNIVERSITY OF STATE, and STATE UNIVERSITY have been taken. Therefore, that leave Univeristy of State-City, a directional name, a city name, or a place internationally, or a name after a individual or religious figure, or a group, as the options.
Certain colleges with "city" names have gathered national followings: Miami (though in Coral Gables), Boston College (in Chestnut Hill), Pittsburgh, University of Houston, etc.
Many directional schools had "branched off" or were former state "teachers colleges", and most all, developed well after flag-ship and land grant institutions. That may not suggest fairness in state appropriations and other funding, or appeal to major collegiate conferences.
There is indeed confusion too: an Indiana University in Pennsylvania, a California University in Pennsylvania, a couple of Xaviers, St. Francis', Columbias, St. Marys, Gordons, even a Notre Dame College among others. And, Louisiana-Lafayette fans, there is a Lafayette College in Pennsylvania also. Perhaps use that in the arguement to just say "U of L" ;)!


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 8:59 pm 
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To add on to the issue of directional names, I graduated from Northeastern in Boston and had no problems. Everbody called it NU and knew what you were talking about.

Before UL-L can go calling itself THE UNIVERSITY OF LOUISIANA, it should maybe recognize that perhaps it is not the academic equal of LSU and that LSU is the flagship university of the state. There are a few states where the "University of State", the "State University" and even the "State Tech" are equal in stature, but in different areas. If by chance, UL-L vs. LSU can be put on the same level as UNC-NC State, Georgia-Georgia Tech, Virginia-Virginia Tech, Texas-Texas A&M or Michigan-Michigan State then you might have a valid argument. Until then, be happy with UL-L. I personally think that "USL" sounds better than "UL" or "ULL".


Last edited by civilrat on Tue Mar 23, 2004 9:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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