Sunbelt General Realignment Thread

westwolf · **Posted:** Tue Mar 23, 2004 9:25 pm

La-Laf is the name most used. La-Mon is used, similarly, for the Monroe school. Much more straightforward when they were SWLA and NELA respectively. Schools shouldn't get uppity.

JD · **Posted:** Wed Mar 24, 2004 12:05 am

uh, not really. The taxpayers do contribute some $$ to the university but not nearly as much as the students, the students parents, and the alumni do. It is not a complete private entity, but its not entirely public either. Does the public of Louisiana have a right to rename LSU if they so desire? Uh, yes really. TAxpayer per student funding is about the same as tuition. Try running a state school without the taxpayers (not just ULL, any state school). Why do you think private school tuition is 5-10 times state school? To some extent it's more teachers, more highly paid teachers- to another extent the difference is lack of state subsidy.

UL-L does have something that sets it apart, believe it or not: success in college baseball. Rice definitely did NOT get into CUSA based on its football or basketball merits!!!
How do you think SMU got in? Women's swimming? No- academics and relationships. Same with Rice. Tech has women's baskets (which is a stronger than ULL's baseball is and probably a sport of equal importance)- it's 50/50 whether they're invited. Yes, their baseball is good- not compelling, however, especially when the new league has 5 teams in the top 25 right now.

Cajuun, didn't mean to redirect the sunbelt board- just responding to a point YOU made, however. Everyone knows ULL has a world of potential- I see a 3 year window to realize it and get what you might feel is better conference affiliation for it. The name is the least of the issues.

JD · **Posted:** Wed Mar 24, 2004 12:10 am

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To add on to the issue of directional names, I graduated from Northeastern in Boston and had no problems. Everbody called it NU and knew what you were talking about.

Before UL-L can go calling itself THE UNIVERSITY OF LOUISIANA, it should maybe recognize that perhaps it is not the academic equal of LSU and that LSU is the flagship university of the state. There are a few states where the "University of State", the "State University" and even the "State Tech" are equal in stature, but in different areas. If by chance, UL-L vs. LSU can be put on the same level as UNC-NC State, Georgia-Georgia Tech, Virginia-Virginia Tech, Texas-Texas A&M or Michigan-Michigan State then you might have a valid argument. Until then, be happy with UL-L. I personally think that "USL" sounds better than "UL" or "ULL".

Cajun makes a good point on this. In most cases, "State" is the second school or the aggie school. In rare cases is the STate school funded better than the U school (Ohio State is one exception, as is LSU obviously). If LSU were U of La, I think ULL would have less trouble getting the name LSU, than U of La.

JD · **Posted:** Wed Mar 24, 2004 12:23 am

Just for the record, the taxpayers contribute $160 million to LSU for operations. At 30,000 students, that' over $5 grand per student. That's about tuition.

californiacajun · **Posted:** Wed Mar 24, 2004 9:20 am

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Before UL-L can go calling itself THE UNIVERSITY OF LOUISIANA, it should maybe recognize that perhaps it is not the academic equal of LSU and that LSU is the flagship university of the state. There are a few states where the "University of State", the "State University" and even the "State Tech" are equal in stature, but in different areas. If by chance, UL-L vs. LSU can be put on the same level as UNC-NC State, Georgia-Georgia Tech, Virginia-Virginia Tech, Texas-Texas A&M or Michigan-Michigan State then you might have a valid argument. Until then, be happy with UL-L. I personally think that "USL" sounds better than "UL" or "ULL".

The term "flagship" implies to me that someone has certain advantages given to them without having to compete, so the fact that LSU has more disciplines is not a reflection of their superiority over others. I don't think anyone should be exempt from competition, ever, nor do I think the name "University of Louisiana" has to go on forever unused because another school has been declared the flagship. It's not that way in Ohio. The fact that the Board of Trustees of State Colleges and Universities awarded us that UL name is recognition that we have achieved excellence and were determined to be worthy of this moniker. Whether someone thinks UL is worthy of the name based on his perception of the university's size and scope, or status in athletics, has nothing to do with this. ;)No qualifications were attached to the awarding of the name. For those that think a school named "University of Louisiana" has more to offer than one called "University of Southwestern Louisiana," why do you think we sought the name? ::) For those who don't want us to have that name, why didn't they seek it themselves? ::) It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that a name like that lying fallow for 100 years is inevitably going to be taken. The nerve "uppity UL" had to do this! >:(

If you'd like to know how I see things in the future, it would be like Ohio. Ohio State is clearly the big boy, but Ohio is a unique and outstanding school in its own right. Most people see universities through intercollegiate sports, and in that state you have Ohio, Bowling Green, Toledo, and Miami traditionally associated with other Mid-American conference schools regardless of the academics, research and development, etc. In Louisiana we'll similarly have Louisiana State as the big boy, and Louisiana. My guess is that in sports we'll one day be associated with some combination of current WAC and CUSA universities, and the sports fan will judge us in context of this league like he/she judges Ohio in context of the MAC. :D

pounder · **Posted:** Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:08 am

If names are everything, then explain Clemson and Auburn. Rutgers, well...

Portland State is 12 years older than La-La, the big state schools are always throwing roadblocks in on the development of the place (I believe it still isn't legally allowed to have a "campus"). It's not simply a matter of name recognition, it's "I want all the resources" (mantra of the Boise sports radio hack). I could sympathize with the Cajuns' plight on this, I suppose, however, the key to all this is DIY. If you haven't done it, in reality, it's your own fault, and having someone else to blame is a crutch that people are NOT going to respect. That's just the lay of the land IMO.

californiacajun · **Posted:** Wed Mar 24, 2004 12:09 pm

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Ohio is very much a "Big Boy" in its own right with 5 regional campuses over 1/3rd of the state like many flagship institutions. Ohio like UNC is the oldest school in the state, and has the most comprehensive offerings. Ohio receives more money from the state than regional Miami and Bowling Green. Where we differ from a UNC is the vast majority of the states professional programs are located in Ohio State at Columbus in the center of the state. Ohio is in the corner of the state so it didn't make sense to have a Dental school or a Law School located in a rural area. Ohio State has the monster land grant reputation as a result, while we have a more quasi-private reputation.

When Ohio trademarked its new logo in 1996, Ohio State filled a law suit. Ohio State/Ohio A&M has always had an idenity crisis. High dropout rates, an image of being very much an urban school in the mold of Pitt or Cinncinati rather than Michigan, the school has perception problems. Ohio State was afraid we would take away its Go Ohio! cheers with our new trademark. Ohio and Ohio State eventually reached an agreement where Ohio would keep its trademark but Ohio State had a right to its traditional cheers. Soon after in 1999, Ohio and Ohio State squared off in Columbus to play football, the first time in 80 years and it was broadcast regionally on ABC. Unfortunetly for Ohio they couldn't come away with the win after being tied at half time.

I would love to see an annual Ohio-Ohio State game and I think it would do for Ohio what the Colorado-Colorado State game has done for Colorado State. Even if the game is played in Columbus every year, that would be fine by me. Ohio State doesn't like to play us very much, especially in basketball because they'll lose, and is weary of another major football competitor instate. Cinncinnati has moved to the Big East, but they've never won more than 8 games in the history of their program. I would like to see Ohio in the Big East but with Cinncinatti there expect a block unless we can expand our stadium to 50k and force our way in with top 25 play.

I expressed the opinion that my school had emerged into somewhat of a big boy and others disagreed. It's all a matter or opinion and perception. But seriously we are admirers of your university and your name ;)

californiacajun · **Posted:** Wed Mar 24, 2004 12:20 pm

Quote:

If names are everything, then explain Clemson and Auburn. Rutgers, well...

Portland State is 12 years older than La-La, the big state schools are always throwing roadblocks in on the development of the place (I believe it still isn't legally allowed to have a "campus"). It's not simply a matter of name recognition, it's "I want all the resources" (mantra of the Boise sports radio hack). I could sympathize with the Cajuns' plight on this, I suppose, however, the key to all this is DIY. If you haven't done it, in reality, it's your own fault, and having someone else to blame is a crutch that people are NOT going to respect. That's just the lay of the land IMO.

No one thought the Berlin Wall would go down either and look what happened. The lay of the land changed. We are quietly going about our business and will ultimately prevail as well. We're not asking for sympathy.

I used Louisiana in a post, which I have been doing ever since I started using this forum, and for the first time someone clearly loyal to another school made some unkind remarks about our worthiness. I responded to some comments that were inaccurate and the result is that the subject took over the discussion. One of the funny things about the name thing is that if it is so unimportant as some people claim, why can't people who represent other schools stop talking about it? Kind of underscores how important this name is. ;) All I did was use "Louisiana" in a post.

Anybody heard any news about conference realignment? Or is that subject off the table?

dogsncocks · **Posted:** Wed Mar 24, 2004 12:33 pm

Rutgers is The State University of New Jersey.
It is wrong to suggest that STATE UNIVERSITY is the #2 high profile campus in each state. For example, in the south, many of the STATE COLLEGES, are historically and predominantly African-American: South Carolina State, Tennessee State, Alabama State, Delaware State, etc. Maryland-Eastern Shore fits in with this along with North Carolina A&T, NC Central, Florida A&M, etc.
There is no University of New York nor a Minnesota State University (despite the TV series: Coach).
Auburn (old Alabama Poly Tech or something like that), Clemson, Purdue, Marshall, Miami of Ohio, and William and Mary, Temple (state-related) among a few others, are high profile public universities that do not have a "governance body or enity" nor the term "State" within their visable names.
The point: there is no interstate uniformity as it pertains to name labeling.

dogsncocks · **Posted:** Wed Mar 24, 2004 1:08 pm

By the way, The University of Pennsylvania is a private, Ivy league institution. The Pennsylvania State University is state-related, but not state owned.

Sorry, kinda off-track on the Sun Belt matter. I say add Notre Dame, Navy, Army, and Temple to the group ;D!

californiacajun · **Posted:** Wed Mar 24, 2004 1:20 pm

Quote:

Rutgers is The State University of New Jersey.
It is wrong to suggest that STATE UNIVERSITY is the #2 high profile campus in each state. For example, in the south, many of the STATE COLLEGES, are historically and predominantly African-American: South Carolina State, Tennessee State, Alabama State, Delaware State, etc. Maryland-Eastern Shore fits in with this along with North Carolina A&T, NC Central, Florida A&M, etc.
There is no University of New York nor a Minnesota State University (despite the TV series: Coach).
Auburn (old Alabama Poly Tech or something like that), Clemson, Purdue, Marshall, Miami of Ohio, and William and Mary, Temple (state-related) among a few others, are high profile public universities that do not have a "governance body or enity" nor the term "State" within their visable names.
The point: there is no interstate uniformity as it pertains to name labeling.

I certainly agree with that point and wish it could become more widely accepted. Seeking a name change should not imply arrogance or suggest that you are trying to get ahead at the expense of someone else. If we hadn't pursued the UL name, you can bet your bottom dollar that somebody else inevitably would have done so, and their fans would similarly be the whipping boy. I wonder if Texas State (nee Southwest Texas State) fans go through the same thing. As Pounder suggested, it's the price you pay when you dare to buck the status quo.

Dr No · **Posted:** Wed Mar 24, 2004 1:49 pm

'and for the first time someone clearly loyal to another school made some unkind remarks about our worthiness.'

Wrong, I am a born and bred Louisiana coon azz. And I made that statement about USL. USL will always be USL or SWLA. My buddies all have degrees from USL. I went to college in California, so I could care less what you call the school.

If you think you are 'Louisiana' what about McNeese and the other 'state' schools?

Again, you can't make a silk purse from a sows ear. USL is a good school, but don't flatter yourself by claiming you now represent the entire state of Louisiana. You represent a demographic section of Louisiana that stretches from Welsh to maybe Beaux Bridge. Go too far West and you are in Cowboy country, too far East and its the Bengals.

USL should have named themselves, "University of the Bayou"

That would be correct, honest, appropriate and fitting.

Dr No · **Posted:** Wed Mar 24, 2004 1:54 pm

And I have a degree from SWTSU. That was wrong and inappropriate for the school to lay claim that they represent the entire state of Texas. They serviced a region of Texas, same as USL and East Texas State and SF Austin, etc.

If USL was worthy and the people who started the school had the political power, USL would have been called UL a long time ago.

It is nothing more than selfish self promotion and atypical arrogance.

californiacajun · **Posted:** Wed Mar 24, 2004 2:09 pm

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Again, you can't make a silk purse from a sows ear.

This is the insult started the whole thing, very uncharacteristic of this message board which has always kept things friendly. Some people also take exception to the term "coon azz," so as a native Californian turned Cajun, I'm going to ask you on behalf of my bretheren to keep things friendly.

You're expressing your opinion. No qualifications of size and scope were attached to the name University of Louisiana when it was granted by the Board of Trustees in 1984. University of Louisiana is a name, regardless of the connotations of dominance and disrespect to others you read into it.

You were on the right track when you said you could care less what I called my school. I'm not convinced, because you couldn't let go of it then, and apparently can't let go of it now.

As I remember you responded to a post that was about nothing but sports with nothing about sports. Why don't we get back on topic.

Sunbelt General Realignment Thread

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