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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 10:59 am 
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While looking at the MAC conference map...the thought occurs to me....that the State of Ohio really needs to set down and rethink the way their schools are distributed throughout the NCAA.
6 teams in one conference is killing their chances at winning anything.

Ohio, needs to take two or three teams out of the MAC and put some in the SunBelt, C-USA, the AAC, and any other conference they can get to.
Ohio has plenty of distribution in the bb conferences, but to expand into other fb conferences could really help put more funds in the coffers(with wins). And would keep the schools from feeding on each other in one single conference.

They also need to find a school to partner up with Cincy....and follow them up the ladder(if Cincy already had a partner...they might be in the Big12?).

Plus, I don't know if it really helps the MAC to have so many schools in one state...and essentially...one market.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:39 pm 
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fighting muskie wrote:
The Bishin Cutter wrote:
fighting muskie wrote:
With all of the changes that have occurred in C-USA, I wonder if Marshall would ever consider coming back to the MAC? It would mean easier travel and the level of play will be about the same, especially with all of the new programs coming into C-USA East.


I think one has to convince administration that "going back" in this case is actually an upgrade. I don't know if that happens as easily as it seems.

I'm watching the following programs as potential MAC members:
Missouri State
Illinois State
Western Kentucky
James Madison/Old Dominion/Charlotte (pick two)
Marshall
UMass as a full member
Army (fb-only)
NDSU
Temple (fb-only)

I listed them based on how plausible I thought they were.


You might want to consider Delaware as another outside possibility too especially if JMU starts serious conversations with the MAC but UMass continues to stonewall.


Yeah, and they have said they are conducting a FBS viability study. Towson's also been rumored to be conducting one (or considering to conduct one). I don't know if Delaware can really do it, though. While the football does have a decent following, the way they operate ("TransferU") and the region's general saturation of FBS programs, I don't know how they stay visible, even if they do become the MAC's easternmost outpost.

mozilla wrote:
With Marshall, plus the following: WKU, ODU, UNCC, and possibly JMU heading to C-USA....I don't see any of these teams splitting up the group to head to the MAC(and their 6 teams from Ohio).


It's not the same CUSA they signed up for.

As for the Ohio saturation, most of those schools are of the same system. It's kind of like the Big West in some respects.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:50 pm 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:

It's not the same CUSA they signed up for.


I understand what you are saying....but, when is C-USA ever the same as it was a few years ago. It always changes.

CUSA in that area:
JMU, ODU, UNCC, Marshall, WKU, Md Tenn. and UAB.

I think those schools could enjoy their relative close proximity. Why give that up for a piece of the MAC?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:51 pm 
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mozilla wrote:
While looking at the MAC conference map...the thought occurs to me....that the State of Ohio really needs to set down and rethink the way their schools are distributed throughout the NCAA.
6 teams in one conference is killing their chances at winning anything.

Ohio, needs to take two or three teams out of the MAC and put some in the SunBelt, C-USA, the AAC, and any other conference they can get to.
Ohio has plenty of distribution in the bb conferences, but to expand into other fb conferences could really help put more funds in the coffers(with wins). And would keep the schools from feeding on each other in one single conference.

They also need to find a school to partner up with Cincy....and follow them up the ladder(if Cincy already had a partner...they might be in the Big12?).

Plus, I don't know if it really helps the MAC to have so many schools in one state...and essentially...one market.


As a lifelong Ohio resident I would argue that the MAC's strength is its geographic concentration in Ohio and Michigan. Proximity breeds rivalries and comradery among member schools and also keep travel budgets reasonable. MAC schools, aside from maybe the newest member Buffalo, are not going to leave chasing greener pastures that are going to quickly dry up and turn into wastelands when the next raid comes. Personally I think the schools in C-USA and the Sunbelt would be better served if they joined forces and then divided based on geography.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:34 pm 
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fighting muskie wrote:
As a lifelong Ohio resident I would argue that the MAC's strength is its geographic concentration in Ohio and Michigan. Proximity breeds rivalries and comradery among member schools and also keep travel budgets reasonable. MAC schools, aside from maybe the newest member Buffalo, are not going to leave chasing greener pastures that are going to quickly dry up and turn into wastelands when the next raid comes. Personally I think the schools in C-USA and the Sunbelt would be better served if they joined forces and then divided based on geography.



I can completely understand the proximity and travel arguments.

I don't know that I want any school to chase a greener pasture....just a pasture without so many of it's brothers competing for. Because, the way it's set up now....one or maybe two teams max...might make it out of Ohio from the MAC. Whereas, if they were in different and suitable conferences....then they could bide for two, three or four conference championships(AAC, CUSA, MAC, SBC). Wouldn't that significantly raise the odds of teams from Ohio winning?

But again, I can understand the vision in which they all want to stick together, as well.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:33 pm 
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mozilla wrote:
I don't know that I want any school to chase a greener pasture....just a pasture without so many of it's brothers competing for. Because, the way it's set up now....one or maybe two teams max...might make it out of Ohio from the MAC. Whereas, if they were in different and suitable conferences....then they could bide for two, three or four conference championships(AAC, CUSA, MAC, SBC). Wouldn't that significantly raise the odds of teams from Ohio winning?


Institutional likeness of members will do a lot. Can't imagine the Ivy-like Rice University wanting to be with North Texas and UTSA without there being a SMU or Houston also around, or Tulane or Tulsa.

It's the same with that Ohio MAC cluster. Most of those schools are small national universities with tiny athletic budgets. You get schools like Buffalo, who's AAU, and UMOH, who's an original Public Ivy (ahead/before OSU, no less). When you peg that to what's populating the Sun Belt and CUSA more and more...there's reason to give pause about who you'd rather surround yourself with. Part of what makes the MAC so "stable," or just more consistent, is that these schools understand they are among equals.

This is partly why I think schools like Marshall would come back, or that ODU, Charlotte, or JMU would forgo geography for something better, which the MAC is. JMU turned down the Sun Belt. The CUSA they wanted is now very much like the Sun Belt they turned down. ODU joined CUSA with the support of ECU, who is no longer there. Charlotte used its ties with schools like Tulane, Memphis, USM, and others who used to call Charlotte an equal in the distant past. Those guys? Charlotte's among strangers again (and below ECU).

Heck, it was smarter for JMU, ODU, and Charlotte to join the Sun Belt, but they didn't. That was because of the hierarchy they thought they were committing to. They thought they bought into a higher peg. That isn't the case anymore...which is why the MAC may look more appealing.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:07 am 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
mozilla wrote:
I don't know that I want any school to chase a greener pasture....just a pasture without so many of it's brothers competing for. Because, the way it's set up now....one or maybe two teams max...might make it out of Ohio from the MAC. Whereas, if they were in different and suitable conferences....then they could bide for two, three or four conference championships(AAC, CUSA, MAC, SBC). Wouldn't that significantly raise the odds of teams from Ohio winning?


Institutional likeness of members will do a lot. Can't imagine the Ivy-like Rice University wanting to be with North Texas and UTSA without there being a SMU or Houston also around, or Tulane or Tulsa.

It's the same with that Ohio MAC cluster. Most of those schools are small national universities with tiny athletic budgets. You get schools like Buffalo, who's AAU, and UMOH, who's an original Public Ivy (ahead/before OSU, no less). When you peg that to what's populating the Sun Belt and CUSA more and more...there's reason to give pause about who you'd rather surround yourself with. Part of what makes the MAC so "stable," or just more consistent, is that these schools understand they are among equals.

This is partly why I think schools like Marshall would come back, or that ODU, Charlotte, or JMU would forgo geography for something better, which the MAC is. JMU turned down the Sun Belt. The CUSA they wanted is now very much like the Sun Belt they turned down. ODU joined CUSA with the support of ECU, who is no longer there. Charlotte used its ties with schools like Tulane, Memphis, USM, and others who used to call Charlotte an equal in the distant past. Those guys? Charlotte's among strangers again (and below ECU).

Heck, it was smarter for JMU, ODU, and Charlotte to join the Sun Belt, but they didn't. That was because of the hierarchy they thought they were committing to. They thought they bought into a higher peg. That isn't the case anymore...which is why the MAC may look more appealing.


I completely get where you are coming from.

Regarding which lower 5 conference is best. Does it really matter?
All the lower 5 are just about equal, so there is no higher peg.

So, while I get that the conferences are no longer filled with exactly the teams that fostered a school into it.....it doesn't exactly change much. The only thing that really matters is....winning the conference and hope for an at large bid to the playoff, right?

And if the MAC adds teams like JMU, ODU and UNCC....then, aren't they just diluting their solidarity with lesser schools that they were avoiding in CUSA and the SBC, in the first place?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 6:23 pm 
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mozilla wrote:
And if the MAC adds teams like JMU, ODU and UNCC....then, aren't they just diluting their solidarity with lesser schools that they were avoiding in CUSA and the SBC, in the first place?


Perhaps. The MAC would get schools who potentially only see the conference as a temporary home, where there are other schools who would love to be with the MAC for some considerable time. That's not ideal.

But as for why these schools want to move around the Go5, it's because they aren't all equal. There's bowl tie-in's, P5 scheduling agreements (MWC with the PAC, MAC with the B1G), market penetration, and politics. Look at how many SBC schools sat at home during bowl season compared to other Go5 conferences.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 7:37 pm 
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rumor, JMU to the MAC imminent. EKU, Liberty, Lamar put on your best dress and shake what you got for that SBC invite. If they don't like you they'll wait for Missouri St. to finish their upgrades and take them.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 11:24 am 
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CSNBBS MB thread discussing "unconfirmed rumors" regarding possible MAC expansion at http://csnbbs.com/thread-678155.html


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 6:49 pm 
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Something tells me the MAC is going to straight to the all-sports 14 membership thing on this one. Out you go, UMass, and either hello Missouri State or welcome back Marshall...


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:09 pm 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
Something tells me the MAC is going to straight to the all-sports 14 membership thing on this one. Out you go, UMass, and either hello Missouri State or welcome back Marshall...


1st UMass would ask if they could replace Marshall for all sports in CUSA. If that's a no then what back to FCS, stay A10 or all sports in the MAC? The A10 should still lose St.Louis and 1 more so I wonder if that make all sports to the MAC an easier choice.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 9:03 pm 
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Wow,
I think U. Mass for all sports and 14 it is. But hold onto those horses just one second! What if this is a precursor to move to 16? U Mass for all sports, and in JMU. Then add 2 more - Northern Iowa for the west, and Delaware for the east? How does this grab you?


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 9:12 pm 
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NorwichCat11 wrote:
Wow,
I think U. Mass for all sports and 14 it is. But hold onto those horses just one second! What if this is a precursor to move to 16? U Mass for all sports, and in JMU. Then add 2 more - Northern Iowa for the west, and Delaware for the east? How does this grab you?


If they think going to 16, it would need to generate more money, but I don't think any 2 of those or even throw in Missouri St. would do it. That flat line of 1 mill per school for up to 12 on the NCAA playoff payout for the G5 kinda slows expansion. Would ESPN raise the MAC's tv deal if Delawarre and UNI were added? probably not but Bish or someone said their contract is up in 2016-17 maybe that gives them a shot.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:18 am 
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Someone pointed out on the CSN board that if JMU were to announce a move to the MAC next week the CAA would not allow them into any postseason tournaments.

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