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 Post subject: As The Spartans Turn
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 7:59 pm 
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Location: Portland! (and about time!)
subtitled "Fifth verse, same as the first"

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/living/education/8302763.htm

We're talking about a $10.3 million to $13.7 million overall deficit (there were some supposedly revised numbers coming from campus today). The word in Boise (conference rival, not much else) is that football there has been taking money from the general fund.

Moreover, San Jose State decided to "forfeit" their home game this coming season v Stanford, and will play it in Stanford Stadium, with the cost burden cited as the reason for the move. As a replacement, San Jose State is adding Morgan State to the schedule, and is on record hoping they can sell out Spartan Stadium the way Grambling did last year.


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 Post subject: As The Spartans Turn
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 10:13 pm 
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Location: Great Northwest
The state of SJSU football is indeed not very good at the moment. I feel it is a shame that the Bay Area can't support its college sports teams. Cal and Stanford are notoriously under apreciated. St. Marys calls it quits. What else is there? Is there any area in the entire USA that supports its college athletics less than the Bay Area? :(

San Jose State University should do what it can (short of corruption) to keep its football 1-A. 1-AA should not be an option. St. Mary's proved that won't work. Community involvement is the key. Sure, the community has changed, let SJSU change to accomodate it. They have a once proud tradition and could have again. :)


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 Post subject: As The Spartans Turn
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 10:22 pm 
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My guess is that San Jose State will be saying goodbye to football and to the WAC and hello to the Big West to which they belonged until the mid 90s. Possibly the Big West could look like this:
NORTH: UC Davis, Cal Poly, San Jose State, Sacramento State (from Big West), Pacific,
SOUTH: UC Irvine, UC Riverside, UC Santa Barbara, Cal State Northridge, Fullerton State, Long Beach State

This makes for a compact and practical league and colleges with pretty much the same characteristics.



Last edited by civilrat on Tue Mar 30, 2004 10:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: As The Spartans Turn
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 11:19 am 
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Location: Portland! (and about time!)
I lived in the Bay Area for a couple years.

Sports isn't the high priority in the first place. We are, after all, talking about San Francisco, Silicon Valley, Oakland, Wine County, Livermore Laboratory, Marin County, Half Moon Bay, even Santa Cruz- there's a lot to do, be, what have you. Some of the most fun I had down there was making beach trips- in January, before hitting the Cow Palace for a Sharks game at night.

Then when you get to sports, you have the Giants AND A's, the Niners AND Raiders (I lived there when the Raiders were in LA, but local media still kind of catered to old-time Raider fans), Warriors, Sharks, and a healthy soccer contingent (caveat being that it's probably pro-Mexican soccer). With all that, and with a metro area that's big, but not LA, somewhat spread out, but without too many traffic alternatives, something has to give. There usually isn't enough time on local TV to deal with Cal and Stanford sports. That's how the cookies crumbles there.

Then there's the state of California overall. Long Beach, Fullerton, Pacific all canned 1-A programs. I suspect this is the fate at San Jose State, and I think it's because football doesn't have the same fan base there that it has over most of the country. People find ways to build baseball stadia, while LA still meekly tries to burrow their way back into the NFL... and the changing demographics mean soccer becomes a growing priority.


Last edited by pounder on Wed Mar 31, 2004 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: As The Spartans Turn
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 11:28 am 

I don't want to see any Programs Lose Football, i think that San Jose State would do well in I-AA football though, They could join either the Big Sky or the new "Great West" Conference...it would cut travel costs, especially in the big sky...cause they wouldn't have to fly all the way to Hawaii, and travel all the way to Louisiana Tech.

But i think they can cut costs in the new WAC. Add in Idaho, and they'd have have a perfect, competitive conference in which they could do well in. And no more trips to Dallas, Tulsa, Houston and possibly Louisiana. The only way they can make it however, is to win more games. They need to win 5 games at least to get some interest in fans, which will turn out to see the games, which will give the school more money to work with.



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 Post subject: As The Spartans Turn
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 12:15 pm 
Add Idaho? Another sieve hanging on for dear life.


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 Post subject: As The Spartans Turn
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 12:59 pm 
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Location: Portland! (and about time!)
At least with the WAC (pre-current-realignment), your airport destinations are as follows:

Boise
Dallas
El Paso
Fresno (sometimes LA and SJ)
Honolulu
Houston
Reno
San Jose (SFO, Oakland)
Shreveport (BSU has bussed from Ruston to Dallas)
Tulsa

Compare to:
Billings (for Bozeman)
Missoula
Phoenix (for Flagstaff)
Pocatello (I wonder if teams bus from Salt Lake?)
Portland
Sacramento (who kinda sorta says they want out)
Salt Lake (for Ogden)
Spokane (for Cheney)

Have you ever priced flights to Montana and Eastern Idaho? Not that flying to Boise is any great shakes... but I actually argue that the Big Sky is more expensive travel for San Jose, and we haven't broached the subject of Montana winters yet. In the North American Hockey League (Junior A in America), the team in Fairbanks is in a division with Texas teams rather than Montana, Dakota, and Minnesota teams because it's simply cheaper to fly to Dallas... though it's a wonder that the Texas teams bought into the arrangement.

Besides, if 1-AA and D2 teams (remember Santa Clara?) can't survive in the Bay Area as it is, why would San Jose be any different?

There's 29 Cal "State" schools (or so, as this was being discussed haphazardly in Boise yesterday)... 5 now have football: Fresno, San Jose, San Diego, Sacramento, and Humboldt. Humboldt is D2 I think, and not in much of a division at the moment, playing Northwest schools, and pickings are slim, San Jose is where it is, we know some Sacramento rumors, and many people believe it's a matter of time before San Diego addresses the subject. Our Fresno friends wanting to rename to California State may win by attrition.


Last edited by pounder on Wed Mar 31, 2004 1:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: As The Spartans Turn
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 1:13 pm 
With all that, and with a metro area that's big, but not LA, somewhat spread out, but without too many traffic alternatives, something has to give. There usually isn't enough time on local TV to deal with Cal and Stanford sports. That's how the cookies crumbles there.

************************

Speaking as a Chicagoan (who once lived in the Bay Area), Chicago and the Bay Area are pretty much the same size with about the same mix as far as pro teams. Yet the Chicago media never has any diffulty giving Northwestern, Illinois, and Notre Dame a lot of local football coverage. Yo'd think the SF/Oak/SJ press would be doing the same for Cal and Stanford.


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 Post subject: As The Spartans Turn
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 1:35 pm 
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does wac football die if sjsu drops out?

heres how i see it:


the core seven:
fresno st.
hawaii
nevada
boise st.
utah st.
new mexico st.
utep

wild cards:
san jose st.
la tech
idaho (i know they arent in the wac)

if sjsu drops and la tech leaves for either the cusa or sunbelt, then wont the wac have to invite idaho. BUT even idaho is struggling and they might not stay 1-a. if that happens, then there is NO 8th bailout member.

my question is what happens then? obviously these 7 could form an unofficial conference and still play each other, but would they still be able to hold their bowl bids or would the ncaa not let a conference with less than 8 teams have bowl affiliations? i would guess that if the current wac bowls wanted to have ties w/ them, the ncaa couldnt stop them, but im not sure.


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 Post subject: As The Spartans Turn
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 3:37 pm 

Quote:
does wac football die if sjsu drops out?

heres how i see it:


the core seven:
fresno st.
hawaii
nevada
boise st.
utah st.
new mexico st.
utep

wild cards:
san jose st.
la tech
idaho (i know they arent in the wac)

if sjsu drops and la tech leaves for either the cusa or sunbelt, then wont the wac have to invite idaho. BUT even idaho is struggling and they might not stay 1-a. if that happens, then there is NO 8th bailout member.

my question is what happens then? obviously these 7 could form an unofficial conference and still play each other, but would they still be able to hold their bowl bids or would the ncaa not let a conference with less than 8 teams have bowl affiliations? i would guess that if the current wac bowls wanted to have ties w/ them, the ncaa couldnt stop them, but im not sure.


How about North Texas, they are upgrading their facilities have been to 3 straight bowls and are in the coveted DFW market.


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 Post subject: As The Spartans Turn
PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2004 8:15 am 
I really hope the MWC administration gets their $hit together soon and realizes what a great opportunity we have right now to destroy the Western Athletic Conference.

UTEP will be accepting a CUSA invite in a matter of days. As soon as UTEP accepts that invite it will be crucial that the Mountain West make a bold move to completely destroy the WAC!

Fresno State, Nevada and Boise State should be offered immediate MWC-12 invites the second that UTEP accepts the bid to CUSA-12.

Our main competition the WAC would be absolutely destroyed if that happened, they would be left with Hawaii, Louisiana Tech and bunch of dead weight in between. The WAC would not be able to survive the losses of Fresno State, Nevada, Boise State and UTEP,.... that would be the end of the WAC.

Hawaii would have to go independent in Football.

San Jose State would drop Football and join the Big West.

Utah State, New Mexico State and Louisiana Tech would be forced to go back to the Sunbelt with their tails between their legs.

This a strategic move that the Mountain West leadership must make to secure our spot as a Western Power for the next 50+ years! This is a critical time in the history of College Sports and if we could eliminate the WAC from existence it would do wonders to help the future chances for the Mountain West in all sports!

We must become the MWC-12 right now!

UTEP leaving the WAC and joining CUSA is a major blow to the stability of the WAC. The WAC is ready to be destroyed and the MWC leaders must have the guts to do what has to be done.

These moves must be made for the long term good of the Mountain West, if we take a hit financially in the short term that is fine because we know we will make it up over the long haul.

Adding three schools like Fresno State, Boise State and Nevada may not be something that helps the Mountain West today but it is without a doubt what needs to be done to secure our seat at the BCS table tomorrow.

The Mountain West must make bold moves to secure our future. We must lock up the Western part of the United States so that only two conferences exist out here (PAC-10 and MWC-12), this will guarantee us a spot at the table within 15-20 years. The West is growing at an unbelievable rate and will continue to grow faster than the rest of the country, long term this is good news for the PAC-10 and MWC-12 because it means we will have more recruits available to choose from and to stack our conferences with. It is only a matter of time until the MWC-12 and PAC-10 would completely dominate the collegiate sports world. That is why the WAC must be eliminated, no matter what it takes it must be accomplished. We do not need the WAC sticking around, growing stronger and becoming our competition. The WAC shouldn't even exist.

The MWC-12 could host a Football Championship game in a new Football Stadium that will be built in San Diego California. This MWC-12 Championship may not be a huge success from day one but over time as we build the tradition it will grow and become a great source of revenue for this conference. This Championship game is something that has to be built over time, right now we are wasting year after year of not building this great tradition while other Conferences are only getting stronger and making more and more money.

A MWC-12 Basketball Tournament could become a huge money maker for this conference over time also. It isn't going to sellout 20,000 per game in the first year but if we built the Tournament it wouldn't be long before each of the MWC-12 schools would be bringing 2,000 or 3,000 fans each year and the Tournament would become a huge success! I am talking standing room only for people to attend the event. This won't happen overnight but must be built, each year we waste a great opportunity to build stronger rivalries and stronger Conference Championships.

Imagine Football rivalry weekend at the end of November for the MWC-12 with:

MWC-12 Rivalry Weekend
BYU vs. Utah
TCU vs. New Mexico
Colorado State vs. Wyoming
Fresno State vs. San Diego State
Air Force vs. Boise State
UNLV vs. Nevada

We could build rivalry weekend into a great tradition for this conference but that isn't going to happen unless we make the bold move to 12 teams and kill off the annoying WAC!

We without a doubt want to improve our Mountain West Conference image. The way to do that is by investing in the future and making bold moves that will secure us a place at the table, not today but maybe tomorrow. To do that we must lock up the Western part of the United States so that only two major conferences will exist out here.... The PAC-10 and MWC-12!

The 12 of us need to work together to build a great conference, otherwise alone we are going to all crumble. The MWC could be great if it was willing to invest in the future, if it keeps living in the past or is afraid to fight for what is rightfully ours.... we will die a slow death. That is what is happening now, a slow painful death into nothingness.

Kill the WAC Now!

MWC-12

Mountain Division
Colorado State
TCU
Air Force
New Mexico
Boise State
Wyoming

Pacific Division
BYU
Utah
Fresno State
San Diego State
UNLV
Nevada


Grow some balls Thompson! Do what needs to be done for our future.


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 Post subject: As The Spartans Turn
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2004 8:05 pm 
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The ultimate caveat emptor (sp?) to that expansion plan would be Pac 10 expansion (despite the rumblings it won't happen, they may be forced to to keep up with the rest of the BCS)... they could take a Utah, a Colorado State, etc. from the conference, and take Hawaii (wouldn't that just irk the Big 5 in the MWC?). UH would actually be beneficial to the PAC as well as themselves, as it would help recruiting for all schools involved, and the extra money made off football by UH (now that they're in a conference that can afford to take some of the brunt of travel reimbursements) could be used to build the school to be stronger academically in years to come.

This leaves MWC having the options of scraping up a Sun Belt school, stealing UTEP from CUSA, or trying to convince a Montana-caliber program to jump up from I-AA. No matter how it stacks up, you won't add anyone that instantly ponies up your BCS clout, which is exactly what you want to do with expansion.

That plan seems like a good place to end up eventually, but for right now it's overkill. I could see adding a Fresno or Hawaii as being a good move, but adding SDSU and Nevada does very little to help MWC jockey for BCS position. For time being, IMHO patience is the best route for MWC to take.


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