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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2003 12:33 pm 
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http://bonesville.net/Articles/OtherArticles/Bonesville/C-USA/100503_Expansion_Plan.htm

It is starting to heat up!


Last edited by iam4ala on Sun Oct 12, 2003 9:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2003 12:49 pm 
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This scenario makes a lot of sense, and the only fly in the ointment is indeed the uncertainty of whether the BE will be looking for an additional team should Boston College defect...

The 13-team "insurance" thus is probably prudent.

CUSA obviously sees itself as having an edge up on the WAC, and this is probably an accurate assessment. WAC is in major trouble in this scenario, and possible MWC action a few months down the road will only make it much worse...

The natural rivalries proposed in this scenario do seem quite attractive, you almost hope the BE keeps its hands of off CFU and SFU just so the pairings suggested in this scenario come about. Would be good for the conference....

:D


Last edited by javaman on Tue Oct 07, 2003 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2003 1:35 pm 
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It make sense:

* Should/when BC leaves for the ACC, surely it will be a CUSA school that joins the Big East. If not a CUSA school, it will be one of the (2) MAC schools already part of the CUSA mix.

* The TCU to the MWC rumblings have really picked up. IT wouldn't be shocking to see them leave...the MWC could expand to only 9 and still increase their chances for a BCS spot in the future once you get a good look at the new big east.

Decimate the WAC...the remaining WAC schools will probably just bring in Sunbelt schools or add a couple of schools and stay at 8-10.

A) Figure it's a step down, but they could probably setup a comfortable 12 school league with 2 divisions based on geography.

WAC:
West=
Fresno St.
Hawaii
Boise St.
Nevada
San Jose St.
* Utah State

East=
UTEP
* New Mexico St.
* North Texas
Louisiana Tech
* Middle Tennessee St.
* Arkansas St.



What does the Sunbelt do? These 4 are left out of the mix...
Idaho
LA-Lafayette
LA-Monroe
Troy St.


B) Just add a couple...


WAC:
Fresno St.
Hawaii
Boise St.
Nevada
San Jose St.
UTEP
Louisiana Tech
* Utah State
* New Mexico St.
* North Texas








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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2003 2:15 pm 
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Quote:
* The TCU to the MWC rumblings have really picked up. IT wouldn't be shocking to see them leave...the MWC could expand to only 9 and still increase their chances for a BCS spot in the future once you get a good look at the new big east.

Even though I've included a reference to similar ideas on this board, I'm leary of TCU going to the MWC. Especially if it's just TCU and the conference stays at 9. Seems to put TCU at a travel disadvantage, as if someone merely pushed this under the notion "TCU plays good football, they should go next." Will agree, though that the MWC and CUSA will pick apart the WAC; just a question of when.

As for CUSA's expansion, a couple things come to mind here:

- What if the BE doesn't lose BC, or take one of these schools listed and CUSA is stuck at 13? Plans for #14, maybe? North Texas might make it overkill in TX, but other options could be too weak.

- I'll say it again: I'd be quite careful of how this could work out if I'm Marshall. Lots to gain on the surface, and there may be thoughts that down the line the school will be invited to the Great East if the BE splits, but looking more closely I wonder if the increased travel costs might cut into what could prove to be only marginal gains. The MAC also arguably boasts a better top 4-5 football programs than the new CUSA would:

Marshall
Toledo
Miami
Bowling Green
Northern Illinois

So. Miss
Memphis
TCU
UCF
USF

Same might possibly be said for basketball. I may be the only one, but I'd prefer to see the MAC invite ECU and possibly MTSU. The WAC and/or SunBelt will whither and die, while the MAC will likely be reborn leaner and better as new bowl/BCS opportunities await.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2003 5:01 pm 
What would TCU get out of going to the Mountain West and what the Mountain West get out of inviting TCU? The addition of TCU would not bolster the Mountain West's chances for BCS inclusion, and their closest conference rival would be New Mexico. The ascension of the TCU program coincided with the formation of the Mountain West Conference, as the level of competition in the WAC waned and the school was able to build some momentum which carried it over into C-USA membership and initial success. I am not saying that TCU could not compete in the MWC, I am just saying the Horned Frogs impact would not be similar to those that Florida State on the ACC or Marshall in the MAC, which would be the sort of thing required to admit a school as distant georgaphically, and to a lesser extent, culturally, from the schools of the Mountain West Conference.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2003 10:30 pm 

Quote:

.



- I'll say it again: I'd be quite careful of how this could work out if I'm Marshall. Lots to gain on the surface, and there may be thoughts that down the line the school will be invited to the Great East if the BE splits, but looking more closely I wonder if the increased travel costs might cut into what could prove to be only marginal gains. The MAC also arguably boasts a better top 4-5 football programs than the new CUSA would:

Marshall
Toledo
Miami
Bowling Green
Northern Illinois

So. Miss
Memphis
TCU
UCF
USF

Same might possibly be said for basketball. I may be the only one, but I'd prefer to see the MAC invite ECU and possibly MTSU. The WAC and/or SunBelt will whither and die, while the MAC will likely be reborn leaner and better as new bowl/BCS opportunities await.


How in the world do you come up with UCF as one of C-USA's top football programs (should they join)- try one of the worst. USF certainly hasn't earned that honor either.
As for the MAC, I'd use the words "best football teams this year" - of the top 5, only 2 have been to a bowl in a long, long time (to the best of my recollection).


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2003 12:31 pm 
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How in the world do you come up with UCF as one of C-USA's top football programs (should they join)- try one of the worst. USF certainly hasn't earned that honor either.

Fine. Place another CUSA school (existing or proposed) into the list. Regardless, the results are the same: A distinct absence of perennial powers or supreme draws. ECU is in decline, as are Houston. Rice? SMU? Tulsa? UAB or Tulane, both of which almost dropped football this year?


Quote:
As for the MAC, I'd use the words "best football teams this year" - of the top 5, only 2 have been to a bowl in a long, long time (to the best of my recollection).

a) The MAC only has two bowl ties to play with, and their teams rarely get invited elsewhere. No one wants to lose to a "lesser school" on national TV.

b) Again, just comparing the two leagues, not claiming anyone was ready to stampede the BCS year-after-year.


As a league, the CUSA may indeed play better ball now and prove much better in the long run. As I said before, they certainly have better cards to play with right now, and are definitely the deeper conference. But if Marshall were to stay put and given the other prospective changes, I think the gap between programs within the top half of each league is growing smaller, not larger. Just my opinion.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2003 8:09 pm 

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Wouldn't it make more sense for C-USA and the WAC to merge, and pick up a couple of other teams. You could basicaly end up with a 14 team 2 division conference.

TCU
Houston
La. Tech.
Tulane
Memphis
Miss St. / SMU
Rice / N. Texas

Fresno St.
Boise St.
Hawaii
Nevada
San Jose St. / San Diego St.
UTEP / New Mexico
New Mexico St. / UNLV


Too many mouths to feed, lack of commonality and high travel costs


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2003 9:04 am 
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Quote:
Wouldn't it make more sense for C-USA and the WAC to merge, and pick up a couple of other teams. You could basicaly end up with a 14 team 2 division conference.


a) This would have required the two leagues to aproach each other and talk about such an idea. Instead, like the ACC/BE affairs, each has become staunchly territorial and sees this as a winner take all contest.

b) It is all but given 1-3 of the premier WAC programs is headed to the MWC, as that conference is too close to BCS status and will lack the fat that a WAC/CUSA merger would involve. Further, you won't get a MWC school to leave for the WAC (which they already broke away from) or this.

c) SMU, Rice, etc, would probably want nothing to do with the extreme western schools if/when Fresno and/or Boise heads to the MWC. They're discouraged about the travel to Hawaii (and vice-versa) as it is.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2003 7:00 pm 
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SCV-Dog,

It appears that this concept (WAC/CUSA) merger is a variation on the desire of the WAC to attract the cream of CUSA.

Your teams list includes MWC teams which is just a fantasy. This is a step DOWN for these teams, and I am assuming that your inclusion of Miss St. is a mistake and you meant So.Miss. Miss St. would be run by idiots if they voluntarily left a BCS conference for any proposed amalgamation of this sort.

TCU is the key to all of this, and they left the WAC a couple of years ago. Why would they go back?

Sorry, not gonna fly.
Fresno St. has to hope for a call from the MWC, regardless the WAC is in a serious hurt.

They are going to have to pick up Utah St. and New Mexico. UTEP needs to swallow hard and do the right thing for the sake of the conference as a whole. Even Idaho may start to look pretty good to the WAC.
8-)


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2003 9:59 pm 

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Commanality would be very good and travel costs would be less than it already is for each division.
E. teams would not play W. except in conference title game. and a merging of C-USA and WAC would bring 7 bowl games.


From the perspective of the WAC teams, perhaps, but not from the perspective of the c-usa teams - they are taking on more mouths and higher costs - for what benefit? What do they get out of the deal?


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