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 Post subject: Mountain West
PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 12:17 am 
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<<Houston would probably be a better choice for market reasons than SMU but I don't think they would want to leave CUSA unless SMU, Rice and Houston all went to the MWC. They like playing Tulane and Souther Miss, and Houston is a real southern city.>>

I agree they would be reluctant. I think they don't see much benefit in MWC over CUSA schools. They certainly don't help home gate. And with budget issues, UH doesn't want to add to travel costs. But "Houston is a real southern city"???? In what regard?


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 Post subject: Mountain West
PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 2:42 pm 
We need to be careful not to base what is "southern" on the boundries of the old Confederacy. At that time, the plains and western USA was sparsely populated.

Boston College's connection now to the ACC is not based on it being "southern", obviously. It is based on it being "eastern". East-West may be just as important in factoring geography as North-South. The PAC 10, for example, is clearly established as a "western" entity, inclusive of northern and southern teams, geographically speaking.


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 Post subject: Mountain West
PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 9:10 pm 
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solid -> boise st & fresno st

others...
montana - strong 1aa program that would have no other in-state competition
nevada - pretty solid. has to compete with unlv, and also fresno st, california, and stanford.
hawaii - solid program really far away
utep - nice stadium and relatively distant from major schools. geographically ok. not much support the past few years.


Last edited by lsuilike on Mon Sep 13, 2004 4:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Mountain West
PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 1:06 pm 
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Actually Tulsa makes a lot of sense in the CUSA because Tulsa is an oil town. There are a lot of ties with Texas because of the economy.

And while I agree with you about Ft. Worth being west and San Antonio southwestern, Dallas is about as south as you can get among big Texas cities. I once heard someone say its hard to find two major cities more alike than Atlanta and Dallas. Dallas and east Texas originally were dominated by immigration from the old south, but Houston, being a port city and an oil capital is much more diverse. Culturally, in many ways it is much more western than southern, even if it is geographically close to the south.

With Houston's immigrant mix of Mexicans, Central Americans, Indians, Pakistanis, Nigerians, Italians, Greeks, Chinese & Vietnamese along with southerners and midwesterners, its not much like the old south. The southern accent is much milder than just about any other region of Texas east of Interstate 35. A few weeks ago I walked into a Toys R Us in central Houston. The first language I heard was Russian. The 2nd was Spanish. The 3rd was Chinese. After hearing a couple of English speakers, the next was a Muslim lady speaking a language I was not familiar with, probably either Urdu or Arabic. As I was checking about a Hindu lady behind me was speaking an Asian Indian language. About the only thing missing was Vietnamese (after LA, Houston has the largest Vietnamese population outside Viet Nam). While that might be common in the old south in 20 or 30 years, its not the case now.


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 Post subject: Mountain West
PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 4:15 pm 
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;D i forgot tulsa was in CUSA.


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 Post subject: Mountain West
PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 1:20 pm 
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Actually Tulsa makes a lot of sense in the CUSA because Tulsa is an oil town. There are a lot of ties with Texas because of the economy.

And while I agree with you about Ft. Worth being west and San Antonio southwestern, Dallas is about as south as you can get among big Texas cities. I once heard someone say its hard to find two major cities more alike than Atlanta and Dallas. Dallas and east Texas originally were dominated by immigration from the old south, but Houston, being a port city and an oil capital is much more diverse. Culturally, in many ways it is much more western than southern, even if it is geographically close to the south.

With Houston's immigrant mix of Mexicans, Central Americans, Indians, Pakistanis, Nigerians, Italians, Greeks, Chinese & Vietnamese along with southerners and midwesterners, its not much like the old south. The southern accent is much milder than just about any other region of Texas east of Interstate 35. A few weeks ago I walked into a Toys R Us in central Houston. The first language I heard was Russian. The 2nd was Spanish. The 3rd was Chinese. After hearing a couple of English speakers, the next was a Muslim lady speaking a language I was not familiar with, probably either Urdu or Arabic. As I was checking about a Hindu lady behind me was speaking an Asian Indian language. About the only thing missing was Vietnamese (after LA, Houston has the largest Vietnamese population outside Viet Nam). While that might be common in the old south in 20 or 30 years, its not the case now.


Dude - I do not think that Atlanta and Dallas are anything at all alike - Dallas is heads above - never felt safe in Atlanta - as far as Atlanta being southern, most of the people I met there were from the northeast - Arkansan


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 Post subject: Mountain West
PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 3:52 am 
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Dude - I do not think that Atlanta and Dallas are anything at all alike - Dallas is heads above - never felt safe in Atlanta - as far as Atlanta being southern, most of the people I met there were from the northeast - Arkansan


One common bond they both have for sure:
Six Flags Theme Parks

The Dallas and Atlanta parks were the first two parks in the chain. Also, they've both hosted a dubbed "America's team" in professional sports, with the Braves and the Cowboys.

Other than that, I have no clue, not being too familiar with Dallas (only visited the airport), but born in Atlanta


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 Post subject: Mountain West
PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2004 12:32 pm 
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Dude - I do not think that Atlanta and Dallas are anything at all alike - Dallas is heads above - never felt safe in Atlanta - as far as Atlanta being southern, most of the people I met there were from the northeast - Arkansan

Having been to Dallas and Atlanta, I've never felt safe in either!! The suburbs are pretty nice though.


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 Post subject: Mountain West
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 11:23 pm 
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Montana seems intresting to me for the MWC. Montana seems like they would only move up if they got a good deal and the MWC would be the best deal they could get. Boise State moved up from I-AA and are doing well, and Montana has had more success at that level than Boise State did. Throw in Boise State and Fresno State with Montana and I think the MWC would have a very solid conference.

MWC
West
Boise State
BYU
Fresno State
San Diego State
UNLV
Utah

East
Air Force
Colorado State
Montana
New Mexico
TCU
Wyoming


Last edited by sportskc on Tue Sep 28, 2004 11:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Mountain West
PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 10:18 pm 
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Been away for a while. made the jump from a rec soccer coach to a competitive coach and MAN!, does that take more time.

Anyway, I digress. I am on record here as saying that BYU and Utah will not be the choice if and when The Pac-10 makes its move to 12, but what if...?

That would leave the MWC with only seven and the WAC with nine. Where would the MWC go from here. Houston makes sense, as does some of the others mentioned above. Fresno, Boise, Nevada, and Hawai'i also would be prime targets.

My question is this, does the MWC without BYU and Utah have the allure to bring in these teams? I could almost see Fresno,Hawai'i, Nevada, and Boise (after having been recently jilted, again in Fresno and Hawai'i's case) make a power play for the WAC. After losing the Utah teams, would SDSU, New Mexico, and UNLV consider a move to the WAC as opposed to joining with the Eastern/1AA teams discussed above?

The WAC would have some good travel/rivalry partners.

Nevada/UNLV
Boise/Idaho
New Mexico/NMSU
Fresno/SDSU

But then you are left with Utah St./La. Tech and SJSU/Hawai'i.

I don't know its late, I might just be dreaming. ;)



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 Post subject: Mountain West
PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 9:20 am 
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Good question Gumby. The same scenario could result if the Pac 10 took CU and Utah and the Big 12 replaced CU with BYU (a little less remote than BYU to Pac 12).

There would be some allure to Fresno and Boise to form a strong conference (i.e. MWC), but there would be short term financial costs. And given the history, maybe the WAC schools would stand together and cherry pick MWC. I think the WAC surviving would be a very strong possibility. SDSU, UNLV and UNM would definitely be invited. That would give a west of Hawaii, SJSU, SDSU, Fresno, UNLV and Nevada and an east of Boise, ID, Utah St., NMSU, New Mexico and La Tech. La Tech would be encouraged to leave and CSU invited.

Wyoming, TCU and Air Force would have to look for a new home. TCU would likely be welcomed back into CUSA (with La Tech-or maybe New Mexico? or Air Force?). Wyoming would have to hope that the WAC was willing to go to 14 or that the BE took a few CUSA schools and left room for some MWC schools in CUSA.


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 Post subject: Mountain West
PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 9:27 am 
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Looking at the scenarios and geography, I think future Pac expansion kills either the MWC or WAC. Given that MWC minus BYU =CUSA=WAC=MAC=Sun Belt in national perception, the MWC could be the one that dissappears. BYU not being invited elsewhere is the key as to whether the MWC survives or the WAC survives. There are 8 western schools in the WAC (+LT) and 8 in the MWC (+TCU) and there are no more independents in the west. Losing 2 schools just doesn't leave room for 2 conferences. With SJSU, Idaho and Wyoming struggling with finances and/or attendance standards, that number could drop even more. I doubt SJSU and Idaho will be I-A in 10 years. Wyoming will probably find a way to make it.


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