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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2005 6:03 pm 
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Freshman
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Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2005 4:25 pm
Posts: 15
Greetings. I have been thinking about the future of the Big East conference and therefore the future of CUSA.

It appears to me, the Big East has two routes they can go.

1. Expand with 1-AA programs like UMass and Nova and hope for the same success UConn has had.

2. Raid CUSA again for 3-4 teams.

A third option would be #1 combined with adding Army and Navy as football only programs.

Here are my thoughts on this situation.

IMO, the Big East needs to focus on strong football schools within the Eastern and Central time zones. They need to bring in programs that can compete in football right away, even if the other sports may need some improvement, which the BE affiliation could probably help quickly. I think the 12 team two division All Sports set up is the best way to go. That said here are the Universities I think would strengthen the conference the most:

1. Memphis - I have read many of the posts, both positive and negative for the school, including the so called "spat" with Louisville. But, Memphis has a great TV market #44, an up and coming football program with a fine stadium, strong basketball and one of the best basketball venues in the country. Memphis could be the cornerstone of the Big East's final expansion.

2. East Carolina - Geographically it's a good fit. The football program is down right now, but they have a solid fan base and a turn around with Holtz seems apparent. The basketball program is a diamond in the rough. Although the TV market isn't in the top 20, it's close at a suprising #35! Plus they have an outstanding baseball program.

3. Southern Miss - What can you say about the football program there? These guys play as tough as any team in the nation. They will bring a more impressive football identity than any of the recent additions to the BE and that includes the so called CUSA king Louisville. They are expanding their stadium to around 45k to make them more attractive as well. The basketball situation isn't great, but they hired Larry Eustachy and he should turn things around quickly. It's a small TV market, but when you combine the 3 main areas they draw from, Hattiesburg, Jackson and the gulf coast, it gives them around 568K which would place their TV market at # 55.

4. UAB - Ok, this one's a reach. The football program is still a question mark and their budget concerns are a real issue. But, the basketball program is strong, they have a solid TV market at #40 and good facilities. They are strong academically and well respected around the country for their medical school. I believe they have been growing their studnet body base as well.

So these southern four combined with recent additions South Florida and Louisville could make up the Big East South. allowing the Big East to power into the deep south terrain that has always been dominated by the SEC. Notice I left out Marshall. I just don't think West Virginia would vote for them. Also Tulane is out. It's a private school.

The set up would look like this:

BE NORTH

1. SYRACUSE
2. UCONN
3. PITTSBURGH
4. RUTGERS
5. WEST VIRGINIA
6. CINCINNATI

SOUTH

1. LOUISVILLE
2. SOUTH FLORIDA
3. SOUTHERN MISS
4. MEMPHIS
5. EAST CAROLINA
6. UAB


What do you think?


CUSA would then look something like this :

West

1. UTEP
2. HOUSTON
3. SMU
4. TULSA
5. RICE
6. NORTH TEXAS

East

1. TULANE
2. MARSHALL
3. UCF
4. La. TECH
5. TROY
6. La. Lafayette


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2005 6:35 pm 
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All-Conference
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Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2003 11:18 pm
Posts: 758
Well you have posted 5 times on here and 3/5 of them have been the same propsal. So at least you are consistent. Its not a bad idea by all means, Lash has said it a few times but he has changed his mind like TCU does conferences. It could happen, don't know if it will.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 9:05 am 
storm;

I agree with your picks and the reasons for picking them if the BE splits. UCF could be a very long distance pick if one of your teams is rejected if for no other reason than a USF travel partner. They have had some success prior to their current loosing streak and that ended yesterday with a win over Marshall. I would add Memphis and ECU to the current BE if it stays together and the FB and BB just split into two divisions.

Not only will CUSA be picked by the BE, I think that a Texas team will be picked by the MWC in an expansion to 12. My guess would be Houston for a TCU travel partner and for their past BB success.

Back to the BE pick. The number of teams could be limited if the split BE decides to replace Nova with Temple for their BB in the split. Hey their FB is getting better. Yesterday they only got beat 19-16. Have they finally bottomed out? Will the rebound starting next week?
Who do they play? Other options include U Mass if they come up with stadium funding with the NE market, and Ohio, Toledo, and N. Illinios from the MAC. I don't think the BE will attack the MAC any time soon unless it gets desperate and has too for survival in a split. It does offer alternatives though.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:35 pm 
I think they will not raid C-USA again because I think they will raid the MAC.

East: Buffalo, Connecticut, Rutgers, South Florida, Syracuse, Temple
West: Akron, Cincinnati, Louisville, Pittsburgh, Toledo, West Virginia



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:55 pm 
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All-Conference
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Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2003 11:18 pm
Posts: 758

Quote:
I think they will not raid C-USA again because I think they will raid the MAC.

East: Buffalo, Connecticut, Rutgers, South Florida, Syracuse, Temple
West: Akron, Cincinnati, Louisville, Pittsburgh, Toledo, West Virginia


Other than Temple, that is really dumb. Akron? Buffalo? Come on, these are programs that make Temple look like Notre Dame. Again you show that you are probally the dumbest poster on here.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 8:13 pm 
David:

Buffalo - absolutley not - they stink so bad that they belong in D III or lost in Canada.
Akron no Toledo is a possiblity if the BE is forced to turn to the MAC.

Temple is a possiblity but more for their BB program in a BE split. Ohio and N. Illinois might be considered if the BE has to go to the MAC as a final alternative to expand.

HOWEVER outside of future MAC member Temple the MAC teams would be taken as a secondary decision after all other options are exhausted. They will try an internal move first but Nova is the only option. Nothing on that front except Nova hopefuls and TS2. Not a peep out of the Nova administration or the Nova AD office. Next the CUSA options must be taken into consideration and they are the most realistic given what is left for the split BE to expand with. They already have the stadium capacities, the football followings, and the BB programs that the new BE would be looking for and need to remain respectable for the BCS and NCAA basketball tournament.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 8:54 pm 
USM and UAB have no money -at the bottom of C-USA. They got Eustachy on the cheap. UAB has done a good job of keeping its basketball coach.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 8:55 pm 
OH, and C-USA will never look like that. Marshall would return to the MAC first (for travel if nothing else). La Lafayette? Get real.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 4:29 pm 
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Freshman
Freshman

Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2005 4:25 pm
Posts: 15
Well......IF and that's a BIG IF....my BE proposal happend, how would you see CUSA shake out? Who would be left to make CUSA a viable option?

La. Lafayette has a great womens basketball program, very good baseball program and a decent mens basketball team.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 10:21 pm 

Quote:
Well......IF and that's a BIG IF....my BE proposal happend, how would you see CUSA shake out? Who would be left to make CUSA a viable option?

La. Lafayette has a great womens basketball program, very good baseball program and a decent mens basketball team.


La Laf has a great women's SOFTBALL program (their women's hoops has never made postseason in its history); in men's hoops, they have won 1 NCAA tourney game without cheating (they have won the auto bid from the sunbelt with regularity, for whatever that's worth) and their football program is probably the least accomplished in the history of the NCAA - it's awful.
That's the point. C-USA wouldn't expand past 9 or so. Nothing says they must go to 12.
Your proposal is pie in the sky anyway. USM and UAB have zero chance for the BE. The lowest budgets in c-usa - and you can see it in their minor sports which they barely fund - close to the worst in c-usa. (USM is the worst; UAB is second-division).


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 6:19 am 
So with So. Miss and UAB out in the south, and Temple and Villanova out in the north who does that leave for BABE to expand with after the BE split.

There may not be a rapid move to 12. Memphis is the logical choice for BABE as a number 9 when they split.
The bring decent FB, BB, and stadium capacity along with the potential to grab the Liberty bowl. This adds a group of assets that adds immediate value to the new conference.

Delaware shows no interest for a move up, Umass ran the numbers and can't afford to move up, so that lets the door open for number 10 for ECU (stadium capacity and good fan traveling team especially for bowls if they get there) and UCF (travel partner for USF).

After that BABE will have to take a look at the MAC with Ohio, No. Illinios, and Toledo. The pickings are getting slimmer all the time. Temple needs to rebound in football (not sure that will be happening soon) to match something to their BB program for another BABE look.
Also even though BABE will be an allsports conference, they may take a run at Army and Navy for a 12 team conference further down the road. This gives Army a chance to get back on track. An 8 or 9 game BABE schedule would allow 3 to 4 games out of conference for the academies to schedule ND, west coast, Cusa, and Mac teams that they currently like to play.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:26 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 10:57 pm
Posts: 1292
Location: Portland! (and about time!)
For the Big East to gain any enhanced credibility, the question is not who they can mine from the minors, but who they can steal (or steal back) from the majors.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 9:19 am 
They will have to mine the minors and turn them and themselves into mjors like they did with V. Tech and BC.

Not only are they not getting anyone back, they still have the potential to loose Pitt or Cuse if the B-10/11 expands to 12.

The BE has no alternative but to grab the minors and rebuild. They did it once and can do it again. Some other universities like Rutgers must produce to bring credibility back to the BE also. You can't beat Mich. St and loose to New Hampshire or Buffalo. You cannot give a game back like they did at Illinios this year either.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 12:50 pm 
Any Big East or MWC consolidation for the purpose of a BCS bid is unrealistic and will not happen. Among the reasons:
1. Extremes in Geography
2. No common traditions and history
3. Both the BE and MWC have teams in which to expand; they may not be beautiful, but they are there and SIZE of conference is a factor.
4. Issues with travel for minor sports and burdens for traveling fans. There will be conference fb games generally inaccessible to the bulk of traveling fans.
5. Differences in which sports (minor/Olympic) that are sponsored.
6. BE ALREADY has BCS; they don't need MWC if they must expand to maintain it.
7. MWC has certain successful WAC and western C-USA teams to draw from if need be for size enhancement.
8. Mega conferences across massive geography have failed before.
9. Even if such happened, segments of C-USA, MAC, WAC, and SUNBELT could re-formulate and deliver a challenging case of their own. It does not terminate the fairness and access issues.
10. Such a consolidation does not deliver the attraction of inter-sectional games such as Notre Dame-USC and Penn State-Alabama (to be renewed for a few years).
11. Travel costs and lucrative TV packages to justify such a move are not assured.
12. If the BCS system is such that conferences are configuring based on an external organization focused on post-season play, and natural and regional rivalries have to be negated or compromised due to this; then, the problem fundamentally resides in the criteria associated with the BCS structure. Further, the BCS structure could change, whereby proving further a cross-country conference becomes even less feasible.
13. To do a 6-6 inter-regional model, involves removing a couple to three teams on each side. Who gets sacrificed? They may be good members of the conference complying consistently with rules.
14. Those excluded could have awesome bb teams. The divide solely on fb will have serious repercussions.

The big, successful conferences are contiguous, built on traditional and regional rivalries. OK, BC in the ACC is a bit odd--but it is Atlantic coast and the profile of the school matches. The BE made replacements with contiguous schools and replaced a Florida member. While the BE can be cited for hybrid designs and reluctance to embrace all-sports because of who were already members, they are not adventurous nor seek to further compromise their northeast foundation.


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