I'll quote an old buddy of mine in response to your post , "Everyone has fun on Sundays, with a ho ho, hee, hee, haha." My point? Methinks you had little bit too much fun yesterday. ;) Now for the other part of your post.


Did you know that (Gasp!!!) Eastern Washington has been a member of DI for awhile now? BTW, the War between the States is over (the North won, in case you're curious. Dang yankees!!), man has landed on the moon, and the internet has been invented.


Yep, that's exactly what I'm telling you, tman. Even Pounder can back me up on this one, and Pounder's from Portland, FYI. The Big West has its sights set on Cal State-Bakersfield, currently in Division 2. Utah State and Idaho came into the Big West back when it still sponsored football. Once the Big West ceased to sponsor football, Utah State and Idaho were given the cold shoulder until they left the league. Since USU's and Idaho's departures, the Big West has yet to invite a single team from outside California into the conference.


I don't know it for a 100% certainty, but given the Big West's trend for wanting to stay a CA bus league, and having West Coast fans verifying this information, I feel 75% certain that I'm correct.


Ever heard of the WAC?


Broke, or because they wanted to?? My alma mater dropped tennis too, but didn't cite financial difficulty as a reason.


Again, ever heard of the WAC?

A new nest is in the making
University officials remain committed to plans for an updated basketball facility
By John Schumacher -- Bee Staff Writer
Published 2:15 am PDT Monday, May 15, 2006
Story appeared in Sports section, Page C1


This arena will not be built in Natomas, the railyards or anywhere near the up-and-coming downtown waterfront.
Instead, the idea is to build the long-awaited facility a few hundred yards from the American River, next to a football stadium and a parking structure, hoping it becomes a centerpiece that draws the community onto an often-overlooked campus.

The biggest questions are when it will be built, and who will pay for it.

Sound familiar?

For all the on-again, off-again talk of a new Kings arena, there's another proposed basketball building stirring chatter around town.

Sacramento State President Alexander Gonzalez announced last month the university arena project, estimated to cost $50 million to $60 million, would be separated from plans to construct an estimated $9 million football fieldhouse and a projected $63 million to $68 million recreation, wellness and events center for students, as well as those to spend $32 million to $36 million renovating Hornet Stadium.

Some took that as a setback to the university's attempt to build an arena, including some students who voted two years ago to pay $110 a semester toward the project.

Others, including Gonzalez, remain optimistic the facility, which essentially will be privately funded and is projected to have 6,000 to 8,000 seats, will become a reality, even if there is no official time frame.

"I've already started talking to people about the arena," he said. "I'm committed. I want to move forward."

While there is debate over whether the Kings truly need a new arena, it's harder to question Sac State's pursuit of a new basketball facility. The men's and women's teams play at the Hornets Nest, a 1,200-seat gym that opened in 1955 and is tied for the sixth-smallest arena among the NCAA's 333 Division I basketball schools.

That makes attracting top recruits virtually impossible.

"I'm able to talk to certain types of guys and get their attention, but it's just kind of hard to pull them in and finish the job," said men's basketball coach Jerome Jenkins, who, in his sixth season, posted a 15-15 record, the first time the Hornets have reached .500 since joining Division I in 1991-92.

"When I worked at Eastern Washington, guys driving into Cheney were like, 'Wow, see the cows.' But then they saw the arena (6,000-seat Reese Court). It was something extra special."

Women's basketball coach Dan Muscatell said the lack of an arena can be a deal breaker.

"Recruiting to our current facility is the number one objection that I try to overcome very, very early in the process," he said. "In other words, I'm telling kids, 'If you need a four-sided arena with more than 2,000 seats, this isn't the place for you.'

"When you're recruiting a higher level of student athletes, they want that 'Wow' factor. We don't have that. That's what the arena brings to us."

Young players on campus said they would love to be in a new arena.

"It would help us in recruiting a lot because somebody walks into our gym, they see it like a high school gym," freshman guard Loren Leath said. "They walk into an 8,000-seat arena, they can just imagine themselves playing in it."

Sacramento State and Portland State are the only schools in the eight-team Big Sky Conference - Northern Colorado will become the ninth member in the fall - whose regular arenas are not large enough to host the conference tournament.

"We think it's imperative that they (have one), and I think they do, too," Big Sky Commissioner Doug Fullerton said. "We encourage them."

Athletic director Terry Wanless said he is confident Gonzalez will deliver, calling the arena the "final piece of the puzzle" to transform Sacramento State into a destination campus.

"Obviously, the decision to separate out the projects is a very logical process so we can start the building process," Wanless said. "I'm very excited we're going to start with the fieldhouse and recreation center. Hopefully that will be a source of encouragement. The arena is not just for athletes. It will enhance student life."

And maybe set up the Hornets for an eventual move to the Western Athletic Conference, whose members include nearby Nevada, Fresno State and San Jose State. Sacramento State competes in the WAC in baseball and gymnastics.

"If you look long-term, the possibility exists," Wanless said. "The university could consider elevating the program to the next level. The WAC makes the most sense because of geographic location.

"The WAC isn't going to be interested in an institution that doesn't have facilities similar to other members. Look at what's out there. It's obvious we're deficient."

Who will pay for the arena? With student fees now directed primarily toward the recreation center, Gonzalez hopes to raise private money and/or find a business partner for the arena.

And while the $50 million to $60 million price tag is a far cry from the $400 million figure mentioned for a new Kings arena, it still is serious money. And finding dollars for sports in Sacramento can be a trying task.

Brian Flajole, tournament director of the Longs Drugs Challenge, searched in vain for a title sponsor to replace Longs Drugs when the company opted last fall to move its LPGA tournament from Auburn to Danville.

"The problem they face is like every sports team or organization in this town," Flajole said. "You're always trying to go to the same companies and get a slice of the pie. And that pie doesn't get any bigger."

It's often not really a local pie, either, with many visible companies here (Intel, Hewlett-Packard) headquartered elsewhere. Longs moved the golf tournament to be closer to corporate headquarters in Walnut Creek.

"A lot of decisions on those kinds of dollars, whether donations or sponsorships or whatever, are made outside the area," Flajole said. "What you lose a lot of times is the emotional buy-in. You don't have a guy who lives there or has a son who goes there."

There are different ways to finance an arena. Consider:

* Gonzaga built the 6,000-seat McCarthey Athletic Center, completed in November 2004, for $25 million, relying on private donations and a building partner fund.

* The University of San Diego opened the 5,100-seat, $17 million Jenny Craig Pavilion in 2000, with Craig providing the majority of the funding.

* Fresno State plays at the 16,116-seat Save Mart Center, which cost $100 million and opened in 2003. Save Mart, corporate sponsorships, private gifts and luxury seat licenses helped pay the tab.

* USC hopes to open the 10,000-seat, $100 million Galen Center, built with private donations, in September.

"Fundraising is always the most interesting part of it," said USD associate athletic director John Martin, who said Craig's contribution was "probably two-thirds" of the total cost.

"It always comes around you kind of overshoot what you're going to do, then draw back."

USD also used naming rights within the arena, with the fitness center, locker rooms and other parts of the building generating more donations.

Gonzalez hopes he can someday point with pride to an arena at Sac State. He notes he raised the required $25 million before student fees kicked in to primarily fund the recreation, wellness and events center. While that building could wind up with 2,000 to 3,000 seats, Gonzalez said it will not take the place of an arena.

"If we could build something like 6,000 to 8,000 (seats), that would be really good for the region," he said.

Gonzalez said reaction to splitting off the arena, which was done to save the practice track needed for hosting major events such as the Olympic Trials and NCAA Championships, reminded him of a commercial he saw recently where a woman orders a latte and immediately asks, "Where's my latte?"

"It doesn't happen that way," he said. "It takes awhile. We really are moving at light speed compared to other projects.

"This is a part of my track record. Let's see what I can do in the next couple of years."


About the writer:
The Bee's John Schumacher can be reached at (916) 326-5523 or jschumacher@sacbee.com.

Don't assume that the MWC will take three teams... and you might become a better prognosticator.

As much as I like to work with alternate paradigms when I have the time, I think MWC still waits for Fresno State to clean up their act, then only adds to offset future subtractions.

I KNOW the Pac-10 won't consider San Diego State, and I'm still having trouble seeing how Utah makes the grade within 30 years.

Portland Civic Stadium / PGE Park was originally Multnomah Stadium, which is an unfinished horseshoe. The seating diagram gives it the look of a baseball stadium, but look at the long stand on the west side. It's an unfinished football stadium. Really, if you look at the history of the place, it's destiny is as a SOCCER stadium, but I digress.

The Big West WILL consider Portland State... IF PSU funds the travel for all the California schools to Portland. That's the same cold shoulder that Idaho and Utah State were given by the Big Wuss until they got out... and at least they get substantial funding. Portland State will not have that kind of money for the foreseeable future. BTW, that means PSU is a VERY LONG WAY from 1-A. They are stuck, however- they can't go anywhere for basketball without football, D2 is an option with its own set of pitfalls, especially for football scheduling... shut down athletics altogether?

tman, you can say much the same thing about El Paso, California, and EVERY FREAKING WHERE ELSE OUT WEST as you did about Arizona. I think your comment, in the end, was kind of lame, as it throws out stereotypes that don't always hold, certainly not over time. Northern Arizona's problem is that the Walkup Skydome limits their options, and they aren't drawing large enough crowds to compel them to consider any options.

Did you read that Sacramento article carefully? Confirms what I thought when the news first came out. The article is a puff piece, but the gist of it is that Sac State just delayed their ambitions again. They're possibly in the same boat as Portland State money-wise (though at least they have the LAND to get things done); I'm not putting money down on them to get into the WAC anytime soon. It appears modernizing the track facilities to get the big events in Sac is a bigger priority, which tells you who's sponsoring the improvements they are making. Davis might pass them by in terms of any race to 1-A.

How will davis pass Sac State to D1? They have a 12K seat football stadium, this is the size of the new stadium they are building, currently they have a 8K seat stadium. Need a minimum 15K seat stadium to even be considered for IA.

Thought I read that phase 1 was 20K... but, then again, Davis has been a bit dodgy with the stadium issue themselves. They're obviously scraping for funds. The problem for Sac is that Davis knows where to scrape and Sac has mined what they can to little effect. Reflecting on this, the "passing up" might be more of a 20-year process than a 5-year process.

Sac still has a basic problem- FILL Hornet.

I almost said that Portland State could make a decision quicker than that, but that's when other observers should apply the vise grips to my carcass.

I REALLY find this funny TS2 because you ripped people for posting stuff like this. If I can direct you to a quote you made on 5/8/06 on the thread 'Debate: The BE should split'

That was for Sac State, the new stadium will seat 20K, it seats 21K now.

$25M is scrapping? Another $1M was raised in the last month making $26M.

"Initial construction should provide between 13,000-14,000 permanent seats".....Davis website

RE: Northern Arizona University and the Walkup Dome

I don't normally use this argument because it is yet to be determined what the NCAA will do regarding attendance requirements for I-A.

But if they don't enforce and if it ever comes to the point where the WAC needs some members to survive as a league and the Big Sky is the source, then they may even extend an invite to anyone willing to move up I-A that is within the Western Footprint. The Walkup Dome's capacity is just a tad over 15,000. I believe 15,800 if I am not mistaken. This is about 1,000 less than U Idaho's Kibbie Dome. Last year UI averaged over 15,000 per game. Can't remember if there was a WSU Martin Stadium home game applied to them last year or not. NAU could legitimately play 5 games in the Walkup Dome and then boost their attendance by playing a game in the Cardinals new stadium in Glendale, AZ. Eastern Michigan has done this the last two years by playing another MAC Michigan Directional (CMU I think) at Ford Field in Detroit and has had some better attendance numbers. Well in 2004 at least. 2005 they only had 11K.

But it is an option. Phoenix-Glendale is less than 2 hours away and there is coverage of NAU in the Phoenix media:

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/

You will notice the "ASU", "U of A", and "NAU" links on the left nav.

NAU also has 90,000 living alumni which actually exceeds the University of Idaho slightly. So there may be an interest and following for this team enough to support a lower-end I-A program so that the WAC could survive if they were ever in that situation where they needed an 8th team.

If the I-A attendance figures are enforced, the WAC may be less than 8 teams already as San Jose State hasn't met the figures in the last two years, Utah State met it in 2004 but failed by 5K in 2005, and Idaho met it in 2005 but was below in 2004, and I think New Mexico State has had some pretty close calls with their average attendance over the last 2 years.

? ? ? and the word rumor clarify my position.

Interesting in that Ala-Birmingham, Central Florida, East Carolina, and Marshall could consolidate with the all-sports teams splitting out of the BE confederation and solidify a 12-team, all sports and academic conference. Yes, the reshuffling solution. :)

CUSA stays 12 team by adding North Texas, NMSU, LA Tech, and Arkansas State, a re-invention of the new, Ole Southwest, having unloaded and sacrificed their eastern-most for the new BE.

Let's see the LA-somethings and MTSUs' and other SunBelter's left, join north with the Eastern and Southern Illinois' and company for another consolidated conference.

Utah and BYU head to the PAC 10, with the seven remnants of the MWC and five remaining from the WAC (USU, Hawaii, Nevada, BSU, FSU) make the new MWC. Idaho and SJSU join an expanded and upgraded effort for a new 12-team Big Sky.

Awh, they all are in packages of twelve ::).

My little idea from a while back was if say the BE took Memphis, East Carolina, UCF and Marshall and PAC-10 to take BYU & Utah. The WAC expands with San Diego St and UNLV, while the remander of MWC expands with CUSA West expect Tulane. LA Tech from the WAC, UAB, Southern Miss, and Tulane join the Sun Belt.

Here is what I came up:

WAC
Boise State
Fresno State
Hawaii
Idaho
Nevada
New Mexico State
San Diego St
San Jose State
UNLV
Utah State

SWC (former MWC)
Air Force
Colorado State
Houston
New Mexico
Rice
SMU
TCU
Tulsa
UTEP
Wyoming

Sun Belt
Arkansas State
Florida Atlantic
Florida International
Middle Tennessee
North Texas
Louisiana Tech
Louisiana-Lafayette
Louisiana-Monroe
Southern Miss
Tulane
Troy
UAB

Interesting SportsKC. Actually though, may end up having a lot of unhappiness with a Louisiana dominated SB conference. LA Tech, Tulane, Southern Miss, and perhaps UAB, may think they are too good, one way or the other, for this. Hey, not everyone is going to be happy are they? :)

Y'all is silly. Oh, wait, this left coaster omitted something... ALL y'all is silly.

I think I've said the rest before; except to add a comment that 12-school conferences are for the mega-rich AND the ultra-poor, not mid-majors who have scraps of money to distribute.