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PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 11:21 am 
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Colorado State's approved to borrow $220m from the state to build this.

So, where will these guys be in a few years?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:09 pm 
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I would assume they are positioning themselves to be ready, should the Big XII or PAC expand in a few years.

I think they could go wither way.
If I were them, a move to the PAC (and rivalry with Colorado) would be choice #1.
But if the Big XII came knocking on their door with $20-25 mill/year TV revenue, they'd jump on that in a heart-beat.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:26 pm 
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tute79 wrote:
I would assume they are positioning themselves to be ready, should the Big XII or PAC expand in a few years.

I think they could go wither way.
If I were them, a move to the PAC (and rivalry with Colorado) would be choice #1.
But if the Big XII came knocking on their door with $20-25 mill/year TV revenue, they'd jump on that in a heart-beat.


I think the PAC would be the #1 choice, too. They already have established recruiting in most of the PAC states and they have historical conference affiliation with Colorado, Utah, Arizona, and Arizona St. I think BYU would be the perfect #14 for the PAC to expand, but they've already made clear their views on BYU. Utah St wouldn't be the worst, but there are better options. I would personally rank (just what I like, not based on anything else) the Mountain West options for the PAC as:

1) Colorado St
2) BYU - not Mountain West, but close enough
3) Boise St
4) New Mexico
5) Nevada
6) UNLV
7) San Diego St
8) Hawaii
9) Utah St
10) Fresno St
11) Air Force
12) San Jose St
13) Wyoming


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 1:38 pm 
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Under the parameter of adding Colorado State and under no circumstances adding BYU here are some ideas...

Add CSU & New Mexico.
-Utah is moved to the PAC-12 North.
-PAC North: Cal, Stanford, Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, Washington State, Utah
-PAC South: USC, UCLA, Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, Colorado State, New Mexico

Add CSU, New Mexico, Oklahoma & Oklahoma State.
-PAC North: Cal, Stanford, Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, Washington State, Colorado, Colorado State
-PAC South: USC, UCLA, Arizona, Arizona State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Utah, New Mexico

Either way, I think the PAC 12 is improved.
+ State of Colorado is secured.
+ State of New Mexico is added.
+ State of Oklahoma is added.

The "Texas or else" mantra is bad business IMO. Anytime you use the phrase "or else" congratulations, you have just given one party 100% of the leverage at the bargaining table. Also, these expansion plans sans Texas keep the Pac-12 California-based as was the original intention of the conference.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 3:29 pm 
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If it's the PAC, Colorado doesn't seem to support them so much.

Is it just me, or is Colorado turning into that creepy guy who hangs out too much in the woods by themselves? Here's a school who turned its back on old Big 8 rivals and now doesn't care if CSU buggers off. I know CU gets a lot of its students from the coast, but that'll never change their address/location, and just because they're in the PAC, students aren't going to look at Colorado and think they're the same as Cal, UCLA, USC, and Stanford (or Washington), just because of sports.

Back to CSU and potential P5 landing spots...CSU athletically tended to recruit in Big XII territory, even if its academic pull was more from the coast? I don't know how the Big XII would look at that...wouldn't they want a school that helped build a pipeline? Colorado used to be how Nebraska went to the coast to grab talent...CSU isn't quite the same.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 4:42 pm 
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Bishin,
I think CU is tired of losing every year to it's in state rival that is in a lower conference. It is a little embarrassing to get beat up by the rams on a regular basis, and your supposed to be a PAC12 power school.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:31 pm 
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Are all 11 Mountain West schools okay with this charity status for Hawaii? If not, then you probably have your next UAB-type expansion move coming. Right now, Hawaii has no realistic shot at becoming an Independent. The start-up costs and risks of playing as an Indy are tough for: BYU, Army and Navy let alone for a school with a much smaller athletic budget three time zones away in the middle of the ocean. Obviously right now Hawaii has enough support from enough Mountain West members (whatever that number of members actually is). Lets assume that after the next ten years Hawaii stays in the doldrums and Mountain West members (as a majority vote) decide that enough is enough. Why ten years? Everyone here knows that the P5 tectonic plates are shifting in in 2025. Naturally, all conferences big or small will take stock of the major changes and act accordingly.

With UTEP you could replace Hawaii with a 12th member for Olympic Sports. Improved West Texas recruiting access. Decent-to-occasionally-good Olympic sports (NCAA Titles in Baseball, Basketball and Track & Field) and a close partner for New Mexico and UNLV. The "iconic" Sun Bowl? I kid, but a good amount of college football fans are aware of their stadium due to the Sun Bowl Game.

There's also BYU, New Mexico State, Tulsa and others who could equal/surpass Hawaii in football and blow it away by default in contributions in the Olympic Sports. An even number of Olympic Sports may not seem significant until you consider that the Mountain West is currently forced to have wonky conference tournaments for each of their Olympic Sports.

Rice would be a dream candidate, but I think they are actually holding out for a power conference. Before everyone spits their coffee out, just remember that Rice has the type of donors who could simply write up a big enough check (ala T. Boone Pickens of Oklahoma State) to compete at a P5 level in football. Doing so in basketball is literally as easy as calling Larry Brown on the phone or calling any currently disgraced yet formerly great coach (R.I.P. Tark ... but more will follow in your footsteps and even Ole Coach Cal of Kentucky will get there someday if I had to guess).

In conclusion, if I'm Wyoming, I say "Why bother?" when it comes to Hawaii and their negative financial impact (including diminished potential income via replacement) on the Mountain West. Yes, Colt Brennan and June Jones made it happen for Hawaii once. Is evidence of that (mind you, for 1-3 seasons only) something the Mountain West wants to take into consideration for the next hundred years? Or shall we look into the eyes of all the tired students as they reach campus at 4 A.M. after defeating a (2-10, 0-8) Hawaii team in front of ten fans in their crumbling stadium? UTEP doesn't want to join? Fine. Tulsa would in nanoseconds. You would gain a March Madness team every 2-3 years and a bowl team every 2-3 years. Hawaii isn't offering anything close to that now or in the next ten years. The costs of funding a football team are rising. Who wants to travel those extra times zones just to win a noncompetitive game?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:16 am 
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bigshotbob wrote:
Are all 11 Mountain West schools okay with this charity status for Hawaii? If not, then you probably have your next UAB-type expansion move coming. Right now, Hawaii has no realistic shot at becoming an Independent. The start-up costs and risks of playing as an Indy are tough for: BYU, Army and Navy let alone for a school with a much smaller athletic budget three time zones away in the middle of the ocean. Obviously right now Hawaii has enough support from enough Mountain West members (whatever that number of members actually is). Lets assume that after the next ten years Hawaii stays in the doldrums and Mountain West members (as a majority vote) decide that enough is enough. Why ten years? Everyone here knows that the P5 tectonic plates are shifting in in 2025. Naturally, all conferences big or small will take stock of the major changes and act accordingly.

With UTEP you could replace Hawaii with a 12th member for Olympic Sports. Improved West Texas recruiting access. Decent-to-occasionally-good Olympic sports (NCAA Titles in Baseball, Basketball and Track & Field) and a close partner for New Mexico and UNLV. The "iconic" Sun Bowl? I kid, but a good amount of college football fans are aware of their stadium due to the Sun Bowl Game.

There's also BYU, New Mexico State, Tulsa and others who could equal/surpass Hawaii in football and blow it away by default in contributions in the Olympic Sports. An even number of Olympic Sports may not seem significant until you consider that the Mountain West is currently forced to have wonky conference tournaments for each of their Olympic Sports.

Rice would be a dream candidate, but I think they are actually holding out for a power conference. Before everyone spits their coffee out, just remember that Rice has the type of donors who could simply write up a big enough check (ala T. Boone Pickens of Oklahoma State) to compete at a P5 level in football. Doing so in basketball is literally as easy as calling Larry Brown on the phone or calling any currently disgraced yet formerly great coach (R.I.P. Tark ... but more will follow in your footsteps and even Ole Coach Cal of Kentucky will get there someday if I had to guess).

In conclusion, if I'm Wyoming, I say "Why bother?" when it comes to Hawaii and their negative financial impact (including diminished potential income via replacement) on the Mountain West. Yes, Colt Brennan and June Jones made it happen for Hawaii once. Is evidence of that (mind you, for 1-3 seasons only) something the Mountain West wants to take into consideration for the next hundred years? Or shall we look into the eyes of all the tired students as they reach campus at 4 A.M. after defeating a (2-10, 0-8) Hawaii team in front of ten fans in their crumbling stadium? UTEP doesn't want to join? Fine. Tulsa would in nanoseconds. You would gain a March Madness team every 2-3 years and a bowl team every 2-3 years. Hawaii isn't offering anything close to that now or in the next ten years. The costs of funding a football team are rising. Who wants to travel those extra times zones just to win a noncompetitive game?


This plan has got some real big holes in it.

>Tulsa...doesn't play baseball. And why would they leave the AAC for a lateral move? Give up Dallas, Houston, Memphis and New Orleans for....Albuquerque, Colorado Springs, Ft. Collins and Laramie? Really? Doubtful!
>NMSU....only plays 6 men's sports which includes fb, bb and baseball. They are almost worthless for this example.
>Rice....why would Rice leave a conference with 3 other Texas schools to play in the MWC? And, they don't spend major money on athletics at Rice. If they did...they would be in the Big 12, already.
>UTEP....the MWC had a choice to take UTEP...but passed. What has changed their minds since then? And, what does UTEP feel about that snub? Would they leave their Texas mates to play against New Mexico(who they already play every year in every sport)...and a bunch of schools that snubbed them?
>BYU....come on. BYU isn't joining the MWC.

This could all be 'slightly' fixed by just adding one Olympic school. I say slightly...because in almost every MWC sport...there are between 1 and 5 schools missing that sport. There are 12 for fb, 11 for bb, and only 6 or 7 schools in every other sport. Which is sad for a conference that considers themselves 'so good'.

I know....hybrid leagues are frowned on by some. But, I don't really subscribe that it is bad in all situations.
With Hawaii unable to support Olympic teams in the MWC...they should be substituted by a super high quality program. like:

Gonzaga, Denver, Wichita State, Seattle, Long Beach State, Cal. State Fullerton, St. Mary's, Pepperdine, someone along these lines.

The MWC could score a great school and a great market with this move. They could add to ALL their Olympic events(9-11 sports)...instead of just a few(6 sports) with Tulsa and NMSU. Adding a school with only a few Oly sports wouldn't help anything.

And...if Wyoming is complaining about Hawaii....that is a complete joke. Wyoming needs to look in the mirror.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:48 pm 
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I could see there being a possibility that the MWC could grow tired of Hawaii, particularly if Hawaii football stays crappy. There's also the possibility of Hawaii someday deciding that they can't afford to field the sport. Replacing them would be somewhat theoublesome though. Idaho and NMSU are bad; UTEP is going to want to have Texas schools join the league too; Tulsa is in a pretty good set up in the American and joining the MWC would mean far more travel for what amounts to a lateral conference move. Montana could be an option and they probably hold their own. My other thought for a western replacement would be one of the following: Cal Poly, UC Davis, or Sacramento St. Sacramento St seems the most likely of the California bunch.

As for the idea of adding a non-football school remember that once you let them in then you are stuck with them. They are a permanent fixture in their conference and they have to be accounted for in all future conference alignment scenarios. With that being said, if the MWC was trying to get BYU back, inviting Gonzaga and gutting the WCC might coax them to come too.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 12:57 pm 
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fighting muskie wrote:
I could see there being a possibility that the MWC could grow tired of Hawaii, particularly if Hawaii football stays crappy. There's also the possibility of Hawaii someday deciding that they can't afford to field the sport. Replacing them would be somewhat theoublesome though. Idaho and NMSU are bad; UTEP is going to want to have Texas schools join the league too; Tulsa is in a pretty good set up in the American and joining the MWC would mean far more travel for what amounts to a lateral conference move. Montana could be an option and they probably hold their own. My other thought for a western replacement would be one of the following: Cal Poly, UC Davis, or Sacramento St. Sacramento St seems the most likely of the California bunch.

As for the idea of adding a non-football school remember that once you let them in then you are stuck with them. They are a permanent fixture in their conference and they have to be accounted for in all future conference alignment scenarios. With that being said, if the MWC was trying to get BYU back, inviting Gonzaga and gutting the WCC might coax them to come too.


Wouldn't UC Davis be the right fit...for academics... and their AAU status? Or, is Davis not that great a market?

IF...the MWC had a school like Gonzaga filling in for Hawaii's Oly sports....then wouldn't it help decrease the aggravation felt by a lackluster Hawaii fb program?
As compared to Hawaii fb...and nothing else. Which....at this point...isn't adding up to much.

If the MWC added a school like a Gonzaga...they could also begin to sponsor men's soccer. Which would add another sport to the league.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:25 pm 
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There's the benefit of recruiting the islands that come with Hawaii, and I think that's sort of the upside with UH...that, and some strong ties of years of working with each other. If UH is good to work with, even if they aren't any good, they would be safe, I would think, as long as they can field a D1 football team. From what I gathered, only BYU was the real pill with them; travel obstacles (the no Sunday thing) and recruiting (the heavy presence of the LDS, including a BYU satellite, in the state).

Maybe if the MWC can get the Cougs back into it, that might be so good for Hawaii...but you'd have to actually get BYU back into that conference, and I'm not sure that happens. I used to think BYU would come back if the MWC changed leadership...I could see some schools not giving in to their demands.


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