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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:43 pm 
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arkstfan wrote:
BePcr07 wrote:
hibbett2222 wrote:
So i was just reading on the NBC sports blog about maybe the FBS football ad for the SBC might be Army instead of Umass. (Idk if there is any truth to it or not) but the arguement is that the reason the AAC agreed to make a new bowl with the SBC (Cure Bowl) might be to give Army a chance to play Navy in a bowl game. interesting, like i said IDK but give something to talk about. So if SBC did have the option to add either Umass or Army for FB only, which would be the better fit for the conference?


At the risk of sounding ridiculous, Army is closer to the Sun Belt members than Massachusetts. Army offers a national brand name that every recognizes with a much deeper and richer football history than most schools in FBS. Adding Army may help the Sun Belt in scheduling non-conference games with the American since Army/Navy would be a consistent game year-in-year-out. I only have 2 reservations with Army. 1) Scheduling - since they will have to play both Navy and Air Force outside of conference play, they wouldn't have much spare games for anyone else & 2) MAC - okay its not really a reservation as much as it's a personal preference to see them in the MAC.


I've not heard any talk that Army is inclined to join a conference in football but their TV deal I think is about to expire and they've only secured bowl ties for three of the next six years. If you take a critical eye looking at their options, what you have is:

AAC. Basically the group Army couldn't compete with before in CUSA and even if AAC allowed Army and Navy to keep the financial windfall of their game's TV rights, the value falls because AAC cannot let them play after the title game because the game impacts the standings. The ratings for Army-Navy were falling and the second Saturday in December date pushed them back up to what they used to be. Moving to November would slash the TV value of the game.

MWC. Terrible geographic fit. At least has Air Force which helps their scheduling. But not likely to be competitive.

MAC. Could be very competitive with much of the league. May be viewed as a positive because part of the team's role is to promote enlistment, they do OK in the midwest but could do better.

CUSA. Could be very competitive with much of the league. South is historically a strong region for enlistment. Army games tend to attract generals and Congressmen and the south has lots of military friendly GOP congressmen. UTEP probably counts more west than south.

Sun Belt. Same as CUSA but also offers western exposure with Idaho and NMSU. If UMass were to come also, it would give Army a conference opponent they can bus to and lock in exposure in more regions.

Now I'm not expecting any Army announcements, until they say otherwise, I am assuming they are content as an indy.

Good to see you here Ark St.!

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:13 am 
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Good to see you here, arkstfan!

As for Army...it's independence or the MAC. Competitively, they may be able to line up better with the Sun Belt schools, but I don't see other benefits. Army isn't after the kind of kids who go to Sun Belt schools...there's a reason their other sports are in the Patriot. And their AD has and probably will continue to talk down these other programs (I'm sure he's a real peach if one has to work with him). If the Sun Belt is an option, it's because they'd be in with these relatively small FBS programs who used to populate the FCS ranks...but I just don't see it.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:38 am 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
Good to see you here, arkstfan!

As for Army...it's independence or the MAC. Competitively, they may be able to line up better with the Sun Belt schools, but I don't see other benefits. Army isn't after the kind of kids who go to Sun Belt schools...there's a reason their other sports are in the Patriot. And their AD has and probably will continue to talk down these other programs (I'm sure he's a real peach if one has to work with him). If the Sun Belt is an option, it's because they'd be in with these relatively small FBS programs who used to populate the FCS ranks...but I just don't see it.

TBC I generally agree with you, but this sentence is incorrect. The Sun Belt (area, not conference) aka the South sends more people per capita into the military than any other area's of the nation. These are the exact type of people that the Amry recruiters would love to get in touch with and advertise in front of. Academically though, I agree with you, MAC or nothing.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:38 pm 
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tkalmus wrote:
The Bishin Cutter wrote:
Good to see you here, arkstfan!

As for Army...it's independence or the MAC. Competitively, they may be able to line up better with the Sun Belt schools, but I don't see other benefits. Army isn't after the kind of kids who go to Sun Belt schools...there's a reason their other sports are in the Patriot. And their AD has and probably will continue to talk down these other programs (I'm sure he's a real peach if one has to work with him). If the Sun Belt is an option, it's because they'd be in with these relatively small FBS programs who used to populate the FCS ranks...but I just don't see it.

TBC I generally agree with you, but this sentence is incorrect. The Sun Belt (area, not conference) aka the South sends more people per capita into the military than any other area's of the nation. These are the exact type of people that the Amry recruiters would love to get in touch with and advertise in front of. Academically though, I agree with you, MAC or nothing.


Twice as many members of the Senate Armed Services Committee are from Sun Belt states than MAC states. In the House 12 SBC states 8 MAC states. South is all in on military. Most reliable politicians for their funding, most reliable source of recruits.

Sniffs and snorts of academics aside, Army football has two missions. 1. Beat Navy 2. Promote the US Army for enlistment and political purposes.

The tight geography of the MAC is counter-productive to the mission. Limited to five states clustered around the Great Lakes across two time zones. Sun Belt in football is 8 states spread over four time zones in the sweet spot of their political and enlistment heartland.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:00 pm 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
Good to see you here, arkstfan!

As for Army...it's independence or the MAC. Competitively, they may be able to line up better with the Sun Belt schools, but I don't see other benefits. Army isn't after the kind of kids who go to Sun Belt schools...there's a reason their other sports are in the Patriot. And their AD has and probably will continue to talk down these other programs (I'm sure he's a real peach if one has to work with him). If the Sun Belt is an option, it's because they'd be in with these relatively small FBS programs who used to populate the FCS ranks...but I just don't see it.






I don't really see it being indy or MAC. First MAC is not going to expand anytime soon. They are content to have 12. If they wanted Army they would have added them while Umass was already there to make 14. As for Army not being after the kids who go to Sun Belt School's (not sure what you mean by this!) Sun Belt School are mainly in the south which is very pro military! And the SBC is really the only conference currently that Army could come into and challange for the title immediately. Now as i said before idk if Army is really a option for SBC but if they are then Army (i believe) would like to join SBC as FB only.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:13 pm 
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The more I look at Army the more I wonder how sustainable their model is.

Scheduling isn't a big deal but they still have three years with no bowl tie over the next six years.

Their TV deal I believe expires this year and the numbers I've found so far, other than the no competition from other colleges Army-Navy game, they post ratings that the Sun Belt wouldn't be impressed with.

Next year they become the only academy not affiliated in football and they and BYU are the only two left without a conference or a conference handling part of their scheduling (pending resolution of UMass).

One season of .500 or better in 17 years. They need to shake something up.

Army wants to run the option like Navy and Air Force do. Navy has just over 60 southerners on roster. Air Force 33, Army just 24. Southern high schools run a lot of option and option variant HUNH popularized by Gus Malzahn is widely popular throughout the region. Each branch has a similar number of bases in the south.

I tend to think Army is going to hold on to independence for quite some time longer though, the C-USA disaster has left a very bad taste.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:19 pm 
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hibbett2222 wrote:
The Bishin Cutter wrote:
Good to see you here, arkstfan!

As for Army...it's independence or the MAC. Competitively, they may be able to line up better with the Sun Belt schools, but I don't see other benefits. Army isn't after the kind of kids who go to Sun Belt schools...there's a reason their other sports are in the Patriot. And their AD has and probably will continue to talk down these other programs (I'm sure he's a real peach if one has to work with him). If the Sun Belt is an option, it's because they'd be in with these relatively small FBS programs who used to populate the FCS ranks...but I just don't see it.






I don't really see it being indy or MAC. First MAC is not going to expand anytime soon. They are content to have 12. If they wanted Army they would have added them while Umass was already there to make 14. As for Army not being after the kids who go to Sun Belt School's (not sure what you mean by this!) Sun Belt School are mainly in the south which is very pro military! And the SBC is really the only conference currently that Army could come into and challange for the title immediately. Now as i said before idk if Army is really a option for SBC but if they are then Army (i believe) would like to join SBC as FB only.


Hibbet is saying that the schools in the Sun Belt sign stupid kids who can't get admitted to West Point. Never mind they and the other academies go head-to-head fairly often with Sun Belt schools and as I put in a prior post Army, the least successful of the academies on the field has the fewest southern players of the academies. Navy winner of 9 of the last 11 Commander-in-Chief trophies has nearly 3X as many southerners as Army.


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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 7:56 am 
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arkstfan wrote:
hibbett2222 wrote:
The Bishin Cutter wrote:
Good to see you here, arkstfan!

As for Army...it's independence or the MAC. Competitively, they may be able to line up better with the Sun Belt schools, but I don't see other benefits. Army isn't after the kind of kids who go to Sun Belt schools...there's a reason their other sports are in the Patriot. And their AD has and probably will continue to talk down these other programs (I'm sure he's a real peach if one has to work with him). If the Sun Belt is an option, it's because they'd be in with these relatively small FBS programs who used to populate the FCS ranks...but I just don't see it.






I don't really see it being indy or MAC. First MAC is not going to expand anytime soon. They are content to have 12. If they wanted Army they would have added them while Umass was already there to make 14. As for Army not being after the kids who go to Sun Belt School's (not sure what you mean by this!) Sun Belt School are mainly in the south which is very pro military! And the SBC is really the only conference currently that Army could come into and challange for the title immediately. Now as i said before idk if Army is really a option for SBC but if they are then Army (i believe) would like to join SBC as FB only.


Hibbet is saying that the schools in the Sun Belt sign stupid kids who can't get admitted to West Point. Never mind they and the other academies go head-to-head fairly often with Sun Belt schools and as I put in a prior post Army, the least successful of the academies on the field has the fewest southern players of the academies. Navy winner of 9 of the last 11 Commander-in-Chief trophies has nearly 3X as many southerners as Army.


Um no Hibbett is not saying the Schools in the Sun Belt sign stupid kids (where did you get that!) I said that the south is very pro military and have plenty of veterans. I didn't say anything about the students that go to schools in the Sun Belt! Arkstfan must have been half asleep when you wrote that response!


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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 9:28 am 
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Article from EKU paper with comments from EKU President and AD regarding lack of a SBC invite at http://www.easternprogress.com/2014/04/ ... ern-sports


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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 9:50 am 
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freaked4collegefb wrote:
Article from EKU paper with comments from EKU President and AD regarding lack of a SBC invite at http://www.easternprogress.com/2014/04/ ... ern-sports" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Is that not what I said. EKU is not ready because they need to up the ad budget, stadium, coach pay, and add women's sports. Benson gave the same to do list to Lamar. Shameful Lamar completed all those task only to get siked...umass in stone. BTW, baseball season for Lamar ends May 17.


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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 9:58 am 
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hibbett2222 wrote:
arkstfan wrote:
hibbett2222 wrote:
The Bishin Cutter wrote:
Good to see you here, arkstfan!

As for Army...it's independence or the MAC. Competitively, they may be able to line up better with the Sun Belt schools, but I don't see other benefits. Army isn't after the kind of kids who go to Sun Belt schools...there's a reason their other sports are in the Patriot. And their AD has and probably will continue to talk down these other programs (I'm sure he's a real peach if one has to work with him). If the Sun Belt is an option, it's because they'd be in with these relatively small FBS programs who used to populate the FCS ranks...but I just don't see it.






I don't really see it being indy or MAC. First MAC is not going to expand anytime soon. They are content to have 12. If they wanted Army they would have added them while Umass was already there to make 14. As for Army not being after the kids who go to Sun Belt School's (not sure what you mean by this!) Sun Belt School are mainly in the south which is very pro military! And the SBC is really the only conference currently that Army could come into and challange for the title immediately. Now as i said before idk if Army is really a option for SBC but if they are then Army (i believe) would like to join SBC as FB only.


Hibbet is saying that the schools in the Sun Belt sign stupid kids who can't get admitted to West Point. Never mind they and the other academies go head-to-head fairly often with Sun Belt schools and as I put in a prior post Army, the least successful of the academies on the field has the fewest southern players of the academies. Navy winner of 9 of the last 11 Commander-in-Chief trophies has nearly 3X as many southerners as Army.


Um no Hibbett is not saying the Schools in the Sun Belt sign stupid kids (where did you get that!) I said that the south is very pro military and have plenty of veterans. I didn't say anything about the students that go to schools in the Sun Belt! Arkstfan must have been half asleep when you wrote that response!

You said Army isn't after the sort of kids who go to Sun Belt schools, there is a reason their other sports are in the Patriot.

So what sort of kid does Army want?
Air Force and especially Navy are signing more southern kids and beating Army regularly.
The south is loaded with kids who consider military service a privilege.
What is it about kids in the Patriot that makes them more compatible for Army? Their point of geographic origin or their academic profile.

If it is point of origin Army deserves their 17 years of futility but be true to who you are at least.
That leaves academics. Sun Belt schools go head-to-head frequently for kids and we always expect it to be a battle because when you are dealing with a 17 or 18 year old in the south promising him an education and six years of employment as an officer I promise you the kid has a close relative telling him about how great their military service was and how awesome it would be to be there as an officer instead of an enlisted like they were.

But I still don't understand what the difference in Patriot League and Sun Belt players is that you are referencing.


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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 9:58 am 
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playa4life wrote:
freaked4collegefb wrote:
Article from EKU paper with comments from EKU President and AD regarding lack of a SBC invite at http://www.easternprogress.com/2014/04/ ... ern-sports" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Is that not what I said. EKU is not ready because they need to up the ad budget, stadium, coach pay, and add women's sports. Benson gave the same to do list to Lamar. Shameful Lamar completed all those task only to get siked...umass in stone. BTW, baseball season for Lamar ends May 17.


Lamar still has 6,000 fewer seats than is feasible for an FBS school, I don't think Lamar has done all it can to be FBS.


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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 11:26 am 
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playa4life wrote:
freaked4collegefb wrote:
Article from EKU paper with comments from EKU President and AD regarding lack of a SBC invite at http://www.easternprogress.com/2014/04/ ... ern-sports" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Is that not what I said. EKU is not ready because they need to up the ad budget, stadium, coach pay, and add women's sports. Benson gave the same to do list to Lamar. Shameful Lamar completed all those task only to get siked...umass in stone. BTW, baseball season for Lamar ends May 17.



"umass in stone" Do you have any proof of this? I have been trying to find a statement about this but have not been able to.


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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 11:31 am 
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After reading this article, now it can be safe to say that Eastern Kentucky is out of the equation (or out of the question) in terms of becoming an upcoming expansion candidate school for the conference.

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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 11:40 am 
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ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
After reading this article, now it can be safe to say that Eastern Kentucky is out of the equation (or out of the question) in terms of becoming an upcoming expansion candidate school for the conference.



Yeah they are out of the question for the next few years until they get all the "to do" list finished (if they do). But at least they now know what they have to get done! SBC having these discusssions with these FCS schools (Liberty, Larmar, EKU,etc) is good for them because it allows these school who want to move up, to continue to work on "to do list" so that when the next wave of expansion comes the SBC will have schools in each division to call up to take that spot instead of having to worry about taking whatever is left over. I know people don't like the idea of keep moving up FCS schools, but blame that on the Power 5 conferences that keep expanding. The only option for conferences like SBC is to call up or disband!


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