Sun Belt Conference Expansion & Realignment Thread

tkalmus · **Joined:** Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:40 pm **Posts:** 1266

Fresno St. Alum wrote:

Huan wrote:

Seriously doubt any of the core big xii would go to elsewhere.

You brought up the idea of the PAC going to 14, I told you how. Hawaii, UNM, UNLV far less likely(0.01%) than UT(almost happened twice, 1990 and 2010 or 11) and OU/OSU (2010 or 11, 2011 or 12).

If anything happens in the P5 my guess would be B12 goes to 12 and ends the movement for a while until one day B1G or SEC decide 16 is the new #

And while I don't normally have a ton of inside information, I recently went to a fancy dinner party with a few UT higher ups and trust me when I tell you that if A&M keeps improving and UT keeps sliding that we may see some conference movement and the PAC has more consensus than the B1G or SEC.

The Bishin Cutter · **Joined:** Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:41 am **Posts:** 869

Huan wrote:

Thus that leaves FCS:
Liberty: ready, able and willing to join. Has resources to be FBS.
JMU: ready and able but not willing to join.
EKU: not ready
CCU: not ready
SHSU: not ready
Lamar: not ready but willing
ETSU: not ready. Just restarting football again, but there are currently 2 new football programs in the Belt (USA & GS) and possibly 1-2 in the future (UTA more likely than UALR), so why not take that experience and build on it? ETSU also has the right geography as well as similar scope of academic profile.

Missouri State, Illinois State, Towson, and Delaware are said to be studying FBS. Those schools are the ones behind Liberty and JMU. EKU likely passes them, though...they won't hesitate if they know they have a shot. Those others just don't want to be in the Sun Belt, and the SBC just doesn't want Liberty.

Gemofthehills · **Joined:** Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:54 am **Posts:** 12

Jacksonville State's BOT has already stated the desire to move to FBS. Plus several others could consider it if a conference desired them. Youngstown State, McNeese St, Central Ark, UTC, and others would give strong consideration. With the rate of universities announcing the desire to move feels like something big will change in the near future.

Huan · **Posted:** Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:38 pm

ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:

Huan wrote:

sure NMSU can become full member of the Sun Belt but it hardly matters.
Sun Belt needs one to go to 12, likely Liberty. If UTA starts football, Sun Belt might drop Idaho, or go to 14 with another eastern team. I kind of like ETSU in that scenario.

Since you mentioned UTA in the conversation, why not UALR (in case that round of realignment happens)?

no inside info
just what is available on the net

would be nice if both UTA and UALR would start FBS football

it would set up the Sun Belt for a nice zipper based divisions, with annual instate cross division games
A:B
UTA : Tx State
stAte : UALR
ULM : ULL
Troy : USA
GState : GSouthern
X : Appalachian State
NMSU : Idaho

hibbett2222 · **Joined:** Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:23 am **Posts:** 19

In all this discussion the interesting team to me here is CCU (Coastal Carolina). They have kind of came out of nowhere so to speak, due to the recent success in the FCS playoffs. CCU is very interesting due to their location. CCU is located in Myrtle Beach SC. A large vacation spot in the south. They have all the attractions located very close to their campus. There current football stadium doesn't hold many but on their website, it states that they can expand to 20,000 seat. So if they are willing that takes the seating issues out of the question. Their recent football success puts them higher than JMU, Liberty, and EKU (which i fell are the other top schools on the SBC list). I think that JMU declines invite if they have not already, then it come down to EKU and CCU next to see which one is willing to upgrade their facilities the quickest. Then if neither can the SBC has Liberty in their back pocket to pick up at the last minute. EKU has made it known that they are willing and soon as they get an invite they will upgrade and do whatever needs to be done to make the transition. CCU i think is a better location for the SBC to expand into. Only about 6 hours from App State, and same to Ga-State and GSU. Plus it gets the SBC into South Carolina and a larger market then either EKU or Liberty.

ncaanopaawaa2000 · **Posted:** Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:35 am

hibbett2222 wrote:

In all this discussion the interesting team to me here is CCU (Coastal Carolina). They have kind of came out of nowhere so to speak, due to the recent success in the FCS playoffs. CCU is very interesting due to their location. CCU is located in Myrtle Beach SC. A large vacation spot in the south. They have all the attractions located very close to their campus. There current football stadium doesn't hold many but on their website, it states that they can expand to 20,000 seat. So if they are willing that takes the seating issues out of the question. Their recent football success puts them higher than JMU, Liberty, and EKU (which i fell are the other top schools on the SBC list). I think that JMU declines invite if they have not already, then it come down to EKU and CCU next to see which one is willing to upgrade their facilities the quickest. Then if neither can the SBC has Liberty in their back pocket to pick up at the last minute. EKU has made it known that they are willing and soon as they get an invite they will upgrade and do whatever needs to be done to make the transition. CCU i think is a better location for the SBC to expand into. Only about 6 hours from App State, and same to Ga-State and GSU. Plus it gets the SBC into South Carolina and a larger market then either EKU or Liberty.

Now that you mentioned it Hibbett, it would let the Sun Belt have a South Carolinian school for the first time in conference history, plus it's also within the eastern side (that's if it becomes the possible 12th member). And actually, it's located within Myrtle Beach, specifically in Conway.

mozilla · **Posted:** Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:48 am

hibbett2222 wrote:

In all this discussion the interesting team to me here is CCU (Coastal Carolina). They have kind of came out of nowhere so to speak, due to the recent success in the FCS playoffs. CCU is very interesting due to their location. CCU is located in Myrtle Beach SC. A large vacation spot in the south. They have all the attractions located very close to their campus. There current football stadium doesn't hold many but on their website, it states that they can expand to 20,000 seat. So if they are willing that takes the seating issues out of the question. Their recent football success puts them higher than JMU, Liberty, and EKU (which i fell are the other top schools on the SBC list). I think that JMU declines invite if they have not already, then it come down to EKU and CCU next to see which one is willing to upgrade their facilities the quickest. Then if neither can the SBC has Liberty in their back pocket to pick up at the last minute. EKU has made it known that they are willing and soon as they get an invite they will upgrade and do whatever needs to be done to make the transition. CCU i think is a better location for the SBC to expand into. Only about 6 hours from App State, and same to Ga-State and GSU. Plus it gets the SBC into South Carolina and a larger market then either EKU or Liberty.

Why does the SBC want another brand new school in the East? There are three brand new schools in the East already? Does it really make sense to add another one so soon?
If the SBC makes it to 12fb schools...then four out of six schools in the East will be brand new to FBS. Why not mix in a brand new school more to the West side?

I did check out...via google maps....the stadiums of EKU, Liberty, Sam Houston, and Coastal Carolina. All appeared to be in pretty good shape. Liberty has the best group of fb, bb, and baseball. The other three are about the same in size of the group as a total.

CCU's fb field is unique and very clean and modern looking...though, a bit small.
Sam Houston looks to be the only field with a track. Where the others seem to have a separate track. Which does make their field look odd when compared to the others.
EKU has a triple deck on one side of the field. And a single on the other. Looks odd to be honest. But seats good numbers.

edit:
Liberty's baseball field says it holds 5000+, but, I can't see where they would sit. There isn't much bleacher seating. There is a big field house on the third base line...though it's hard to tell what type of seating might be held inside? So, I don't know about the 5000 person capacity??

NJITHighlander · **Joined:** Sun Jun 02, 2013 6:11 pm **Posts:** 3

Men's soccer coming back to Sun Belt
http://www.sunbeltsports.org/news/2014/ ... 45401.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ncaanopaawaa2000 · **Posted:** Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:41 am

NJITHighlander wrote:

Men's soccer coming back to Sun Belt
http://www.sunbeltsports.org/news/2014/ ... 45401.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So far, good news on the Sun Belt's behalf, just because they re-instated a sport that was a charter sport since the conference's inception. Plus, it also has enough member schools to at least gain an automatic bid for the NCAA Tournament within that sport.

Putting a bit aside from soccer, the conference has until the end of June to try find an adequate school as its 12th member (either for football-only or for full membership status). To be a bit more realistic, why not find like 2-4 candidates on the West side (like on Texas or Arkansas or Louisiana), and 1 candidate on the East side? If the expansion is being focused to the West, that means either the Arkansas schools (Arkansas St. & UALR) or the Louisiana schools (UL-Lafayette & UL-Monroe) would represent part of the East Division to offset division play.

tkalmus · **Joined:** Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:40 pm **Posts:** 1266

ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:

NJITHighlander wrote:

Men's soccer coming back to Sun Belt
http://www.sunbeltsports.org/news/2014/ ... 45401.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So far, good news on the Sun Belt's behalf, just because they re-instated a sport that was a charter sport since the conference's inception. Plus, it also has enough member schools to at least gain an automatic bid for the NCAA Tournament within that sport.

Putting a bit aside from soccer, the conference has until the end of June to try find an adequate school as its 12th member (either for football-only or for full membership status). To be a bit more realistic, why not find like 2-4 candidates on the West side (like on Texas or Arkansas or Louisiana), and 1 candidate on the East side? If the expansion is being focused to the West, that means either the Arkansas schools (Arkansas St. & UALR) or the Louisiana schools (UL-Lafayette & UL-Monroe) would represent part of the East Division to offset division play.

Arkansas and Louisiana schools don't want to move East and Texas schools like Texas State don't want more Texas schools like SHSU/SFA/Lamar. And the playoff money caps out at 12 per school and they already subsidize UTA/UALR with that a bit, there is no way they cut up the pie any more than they have to.

Texas State has a good racket, they can get payday games from other area schools because their are now 5 and maybe even 7 teams in the state (all old SWC-Rice) that would pay pretty well for them and the 4 in CUSA for body bag games, but if other start upgrading it lowers their attractiveness and eliminate any negotiating power they have to possibly get a home game every few years from one of the big guys.

Ark/LA would want to move because...
A: it increases travel costs if they got put in a division with NC/GA/AL/?KY/VA/SC?
B: it reduces the effectiveness of their recruting as is easier to recruit a kid from your local states than it is from halfway across the country and its easier to sell a kid on playing close to home in TX/AR/LA than it is NC/GA/AL/?

The Sun Belt seem pretty set on keep the divisions geographically clear. ArkLaTex isn't voting to break up, and I doubt GA/AL would want to increase their travels either. I don't see them adding another school West of the Mississippi anytime soon barring a raid from CUSA.

mozilla · **Posted:** Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:55 am

tkalmus wrote:

ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:

NJITHighlander wrote:

Men's soccer coming back to Sun Belt
http://www.sunbeltsports.org/news/2014/ ... 45401.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So far, good news on the Sun Belt's behalf, just because they re-instated a sport that was a charter sport since the conference's inception. Plus, it also has enough member schools to at least gain an automatic bid for the NCAA Tournament within that sport.

Putting a bit aside from soccer, the conference has until the end of June to try find an adequate school as its 12th member (either for football-only or for full membership status). To be a bit more realistic, why not find like 2-4 candidates on the West side (like on Texas or Arkansas or Louisiana), and 1 candidate on the East side? If the expansion is being focused to the West, that means either the Arkansas schools (Arkansas St. & UALR) or the Louisiana schools (UL-Lafayette & UL-Monroe) would represent part of the East Division to offset division play.

Arkansas and Louisiana schools don't want to move East and Texas schools like Texas State don't want more Texas schools like SHSU/SFA/Lamar. And the playoff money caps out at 12 per school and they already subsidize UTA/UALR with that a bit, there is no way they cut up the pie any more than they have to.

Texas State has a good racket, they can get payday games from other area schools because their are now 5 and maybe even 7 teams in the state (all old SWC-Rice) that would pay pretty well for them and the 4 in CUSA for body bag games, but if other start upgrading it lowers their attractiveness and eliminate any negotiating power they have to possibly get a home game every few years from one of the big guys.

Ark/LA would want to move because...
A: it increases travel costs if they got put in a division with NC/GA/AL/?KY/VA/SC?
B: it reduces the effectiveness of their recruting as is easier to recruit a kid from your local states than it is from halfway across the country and its easier to sell a kid on playing close to home in TX/AR/LA than it is NC/GA/AL/?

The Sun Belt seem pretty set on keep the divisions geographically clear. ArkLaTex isn't voting to break up, and I doubt GA/AL would want to increase their travels either. I don't see them adding another school West of the Mississippi anytime soon barring a raid from CUSA.

If the best school for the SBC is in Ark, La, or Texas....I just can't see the SBC avoiding them.

Give me a break on the travel issue. That is a joke. Especially when you have schools like Idaho in...for the one main NCAA sport(fb). It is just not that far for a La school to travel to Alabama or Georgia or NC.

The SBC is looking for the best available school...no matter where they are. So, when someone suggests UMass....I just won't believe that moving an Ark or La. school to the east is that big of a deal especially when there are two schools in Alabama....to bridge the gap.

And I really don't believe that Tx State is blocking schools like Sam Houston. Having two fb schools in the State of Texas isn't too many for a state this large.

There is no perfect resolution for the SBC problems. All schools will have to work together to make things work out best. If a school or two has to make some concessions....then so be it. Survival and strengthening of the conference is the 'most important' item, in my opinion.

Lastly, I don't believe that a division of the SBC has more power than the conference as a whole.

mozilla · **Posted:** Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:20 pm

To illustrate my vision of the future SBC....here's how I think it could work.

SBC East:
App. State, Georgia Southern, Georgia State, Troy, S. Alabama, Arkansas State, with the addition of Belmont for non fb.

SBC West:
ULL, ULM, Sam Houston, Tx State, UALR non fb, UTA/Idaho, New Mexico State.

The East is connected by the addition of Belmont for non fb in a main hub like Nashville. Belmont would bridge Ark State to App State and the rest of the East. Ark State would also add some age and depth to the East...which it needs with only one longtime DI program(Troy). The travel for Ark State wouldn't be bad either...not having to travel more than two states away at any one time. States covered by the East: Arkansas, Alabama, Tennessee, Georgia and North Carolina.

The West is pretty much the same as its been with the addition of Sam Houston and the full membership of NMSU. Sam bridges Texas State to the La schools...and also allows some reduced travel for NMSU in all sports(by pulling out of the WAC). States in the West: Louisiana, Arkansas, Texas, New Mexico and Idaho.

With the addition of NMSU in all sports and the addition of Belmont....gives the SBC a huge boost in basketball on both sides of the conference. And the addition of Nashville to the conference adds a great market to the East...which it really needs because Boone, Troy, and Stateboro are pretty small towns.

Adding Belmont and NMSU is a whole lot better than what they accomplished with soccer.

Hope that helps to clarify my thoughts from earlier.

Huan · **Posted:** Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:25 pm

Maybe the soccer thing is to make the SBC more attractive to any potential 12 FBS candidate
JMU has men soccer
But then so does liberty

ncaanopaawaa2000 · **Posted:** Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:29 pm

Interesting analysis so far from Mozilla.

tkalmus · **Joined:** Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:40 pm **Posts:** 1266

mozilla wrote:

If the best school for the SBC is in Ark, La, or Texas....I just can't see the SBC avoiding them.

Give me a break on the travel issue. That is a joke. Especially when you have schools like Idaho in...for the one main NCAA sport(fb). It is just not that far for a La school to travel to Alabama or Georgia or NC.

The SBC is looking for the best available school...no matter where they are. So, when someone suggests UMass....I just won't believe that moving an Ark or La. school to the east is that big of a deal especially when there are two schools in Alabama....to bridge the gap.

And I really don't believe that Tx State is blocking schools like Sam Houston. Having two fb schools in the State of Texas isn't too many for a state this large.

There is no perfect resolution for the SBC problems. All schools will have to work together to make things work out best. If a school or two has to make some concessions....then so be it. Survival and strengthening of the conference is the 'most important' item, in my opinion.

Lastly, I don't believe that a division of the SBC has more power than the conference as a whole.

A school can't be voted in without a majority of members wanting it. If half the schools oppose it then it won't happen, ergo a united division can block the addition of any school it chooses.

When talking about the travel expenses to adding a team to the Sun Belt conference, we're NOT talking about football.

The Sun Belt conference sponsors 18 sports, most of which play more conference games than football does.

So dismissing travel concerns because of Idaho is pointless.

But even if we consider that, only 4 teams a year would travel to Idaho (or NMSU) (or any other fb only school like UMass or NDSU). Its not even worth considering, when compared to the travel of other sports.

Conference games per sport:
M Football: 4home+4away+CCG (play everyone in division and half other division)
W Volleyball: 9home+9away+tournament (play everyone but double round robin in division)
M/W Basketball: 9home+9away+tournament (play everyone but double round robin in division)
Base/Softball: 4home+4away+1rivalhome+1rival away+tournament (play everyone+extra rival game)
M/W Soccer: Play everyone.
M/W Indoor Track & Field: Invitationals+Tournament, teams from divisions seem to be invited to compete more often together (only at 2 non SBC sponsored events did a team from the East compete with one from the West)
M/W Outdoor Track & Field: Invitationals+Tournament (same as above but 5 times)
M/W Cross Country & M/W Golf & M/W Tennis: Not as organized but also needs to be considered.

Sun Belt Conference Expansion & Realignment Thread

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