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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:12 pm 
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Karl Benson presided over the death of the WAC (as a bottom tier FBS conference).
He tried his ill-fated "plan" to lure MWC defectors and failed.
Thompson quickly reacted and dealt the WAC a death blow by grabbing Nevada and Fresno State.
Benson hurriedly tried to replace the lost teams but there weren't enough replacement schools available.

Meanwhie CUSA was picking over the Sun-Belt and Wright Waters had already announced his plans to retire.
Benson snagged the Sun-Belt job, and rebuilt the confernece by inviting the WAC FBS schools.
It is correct to say that the Sun-Belt is an entry-level FBS confernece, and if schools want to leave,
there is nothing to hold them there.

All things considered, I think the Sun-Belt appears to be a decent coherent regional conference.
The geography is sensible.
Too much is made of FBS-only affiliates Idaho and NMSU.
Yeah, those 2 schools (well, Idaho especially) are far-flung, but this FB affiliation only involves a few games / year in a single sport.
And it compensates for the problem that UALR and UTA don't have FB teams.

Benson seems to have a vision for how he's pulled this conference together,
and it's done a lot to respect geography, bail out 2 conferences that were largely wrecked by realignment,
and compete at a fairly decent level.

Given what he has had to work with:
for his peformance as WAC commissioner, I'd give him a D.
for his performance as SBC commissioner, I'd give him an A-.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:18 pm 
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Explain me something tute, and in your own words: Why did New Mexico St. choose fb-only status instead of full membership?

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:37 pm 
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ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
Explain me something tute, and in your own words: Why did New Mexico St. choose fb-only status instead of full membership?

They weren't offered full membership, if they were, they'd be a full member.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:49 pm 
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Fresno St. Alum wrote:
ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
Explain me something tute, and in your own words: Why did New Mexico St. choose fb-only status instead of full membership?

They weren't offered full membership, if they were, they'd be a full member.

Exactly.

The Sun Belt schools new NMSU was out there but decided to offer UT-Arlington (in the DFW market) the full membership.

If they really wanted NMSU, UT Arlington would be back in the Southland Conference and NMSU would be a full member.

Benson could have fought for NMSU tooth and nail for all we know, but no matter what happened the university presidents decides that the current setup was in their best interest.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:17 pm 
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For soccer, the 3 affiliates are Howard (DC), NJIT (NJ), and Hartwick (NY). I know Hartwick is a bit away but their men's soccer program was grandfathered into Division I like a bunch of hockey programs and other sparse teams at Division II and Division III schools. Hartwick was in the MAC. I am shocked (literally in awe) why they would have left the MAC. The other MAC men's soccer schools are Akron, Bowling Green, Buffalo, Northern Illinois, Western Michigan, and West Virginia. They left an "eh" soccer conference with 1 perennial powerhouse (Akron - go figure!) for a conference that could only be described as crappy. Howard men's soccer was ranked dead last (#203) by NCAA RPI - for those of you who don't understand soccer and the differences between Division I, II, and III, I played Division III soccer in the 2000s. We would play a Division I team who was consistently in the bottom 20 of NCAA RPI as a non-conference game and we went 0-1-2 (W/L/T). Our loss was 3-2 in OT. We were very average in Division III. Is there any information on why Hartwick moved?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:36 pm 
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Answering my own question of how Howard is in fb and bb:

Last 6 seasons:

fb - 22-45 (played 4 fbs schools Rutgers and E. Mich twice, played 5 DIII schools, finished 2nd once in conf.)
bb - 45-140 (over 20 losses per year all six years)

Who would have thought that the MEAC was so tough?

Does anyone think that the SBC is setting Howard up for future inclusion as an all sports member?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:41 pm 
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mozilla wrote:
Does anyone think that the SBC is setting Howard up for future inclusion as an all sports member?


No I don't. The Sun Belt picked up 3/5 of the soccer independents. Incarnate Word will be going the WAC for soccer, I believe, and I'm not sure about Belmont. I the Sun Belt was just looking to re-add men's soccer to its plate of athletics and Howard was independent and relatively close being in DC.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:48 pm 
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mozilla wrote:
Benson was in charge while all those schools decided to move on. He couldn't keep any of them from heading out...which says to me...that the SBC doesn't really have much holding power. So, if another round of realignment, does happen...then the SBC will fall pray again. Without any other recourse than to have more schools than necessary to keep a CCG going. And he doesn't even have enough to get the CCG off the ground. Yes, I hold him responsible for this lack of foresight.
Yes the Sun Belt is the lowest FBS conference, if anyone comes calling there members will leave. Benson was in a similar situation in the WAC and tried to reverse the tables but failed, I don't think he's going to try to upset the balanance of power when his conference good be mostly gone tomorrow if the others chose to (NMSU/Idaho>MWC, All others>CUSA). And he had a vision when he was hired only ?2ish? years ago was to get a CCG and to use it in order to get his conference a real TV deal. I'm not sure how that's a lack of foresight, he knew what he was getting into and has been acting accordingly.

mozilla wrote:
I am not against the additions that have been made...other than not getting NMSU as a full member. I do feel that he could have added more schools last year...to finalize this process, though.
NMSU didn't have the votes and neither did any of the schools that wanted in last year (Jax St/Liberty/Lamar), again not his fault.

mozilla wrote:
I don't feel that the number of schools that have declined an invite to the SBC or have declined even being looked at....says good things about the SBC. And isn't the Commissioner responsible for that, as well. The schools I can remember that have said no: Fla A&M, Mo State, UT Chatt., JMU?, Illinois State.
It has more to do with their own financial situations and their comfortability with their place in the FCS than their opinion of the SBC, and of those you named only JMU feels that they are better than the SBC and its primarily has to do with geography.

mozilla wrote:
Throwing Idaho and NMSU a lifeline. I'm not against that either. But, why not lock NMSU in for the long haul? A full member is much better than an affiliate when building a conference, no? And NMSU has a long history in DI athletics, which I see as a positive for a young conference.
I don't disagree but as I said above its the presidents decision not Benson's.

mozilla wrote:
Since fb is the big money maker...I am a bit curious as to what is going to happen with UALR and UTA. Are two schools that don't play fb the limit. Will we see more? Will there be less, soon? If two are good...is four better? What's the deal? Also, the schools that were added for soccer.....were any of them good enough to be a member? Or are they one sport wonders...just good enough to be an affiliate only? Trying to figure out the direction the conference is attempting to head??
I don't think they want anyone non-fb schools but I could see possibly 1 more in the East like a Florida Gulf Coast. As far as men's soccer goes, the Sun Belt grabbed 2 independent schools NJIT (Great West now full Indy) and Howard (MEAC) plus a D3 MAC affiliate Hartwick. None of these will be full members they were simply added to get GASt, GASo, and AppSt a conference with a post season entry. There are no soccer schools in Texas other than the ones that just joined the WAC (Incarnate Word, UTPA, HBU) only other soccer schools not in a conference is Belmont who must have declined. But they just wanted and needed 6 which they now have, this really shouldn't be of any concern to the larger realignment picture.

mozilla wrote:
Patched together.
CUSA are all longtime FBS programs(barring ODU and UNCC, which have been really good at DI hoops for years). None of the CUSA schools are fb only members. CUSA schools states all touch each other(states connecting from VA down to TX) for the majority of schools.
LOL CUSA looks just like the SBC. Is it really bothering you that they don't have a school in TN or MS? The East schools will fly to the West and the West to the East regardless of wether or not they add a school in those states. The touching/contiguous states arguement is weak, the PAC12 was willing to leave out Utah for TX/OU and then they wouldn't have touched. The Big Ten was in talks to take GT w/o any of their states touching too. That point is just something people use to after the fact but rarely think about before. Distance means something but contiguousness doesn't.

mozilla wrote:
SBC schools...large percentage are new to FBS. Many schools in the SBC don't play major sports in this conference, if at all. NMSU and Idaho, as well as, soccer affiliates(3 of 6) are all on the edges of the conference. There are some big gaps in the continuity of the conference allignment.
So, there are some differences between the two conferences. And the way each conference will proceed should be different, as well. The SBC needs stability. CUSA already has stability built in.

CUSA has 14 affiliates, the SBC has 5, who has bigger "continuity" issues?

The SBC just need to expand and stay put. Just like last time, the longer the schools mix into the culture of FBS the better they look.

mozilla wrote:
There are soccer programs in Texas and other States. Why go up to NY for a DIII program?

Because they just needed 3 schools and no others were available as I wrote above, I'm pretty sure they grabbed the 3 weakest schools they could get to boost GASt/GASo/AppSt and get them into the post season. This isn't a big deal they need 6 to supponsor the sport and they got 6, no more no less.

mozilla wrote:
It just seems to me that things are happening very haphazardly. And what happens to the Tx/La/Ark block when ULL or Ark State leaves? Or if ULM doesn't have enough money to continue at its current level?

Nothing crazy, they'd likely replace them with NMSU (as full member), Missouri State, Lamar, or SHSU.

mozilla wrote:
Y'all don't find anything wrong with what's happening in the Sun Belt or the direction it's heading? Maybe, direction it's heading isn't the right term? How about, time it's taking to get things completed?

Yes that's about the only thing that you CAN blame Benson for but to be fair he was mainly dealing with West Coast schools and connections for years, NOT East coast ones so there is some adjustment. He was hit with a lot quickly and made some great decisions quick and is still figuring everything out as it comes in (like the men's soccer) but he knows that getting the 12th fb member is the first non-slam dunk solution he has to make and wants to do it right, but the FCS just got raided for 5 Southern programs (4 SBC schools + ODU)(USA/UTSA/UNCC were start ups) so the quality isn't as obvious once you get past 5.

I think they missed the bus by not adding the 12th last year but its hard to blame them with only Liberty/JAX St but this is crunch time and they need a 12th by July 1.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:00 pm 
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NE Az corner touches SW Co corner, the SE Co corner touches the NW Ok corner. But yeah it means nothing to touch. WVU way the hell out on an island and sure the B12 could take Cincy who could fill the gap but seems to be in no rush to add anyone. Miami was in the BE w/o anyone close.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:20 pm 
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If, it is the Presidents that chose not to include NMSU as a full member....then, why aren't the Presidents getting credit for making all the other decisions?

Which leads me to ask....what has Benson done at all, then?

Benson didn't create the schools that were up and coming....that the SBC chose from, to replace exiting schools. Those schools were the next in line, or, the schools that chose to declare their desire to move up, and they were already next in line. It was the Presidents that chose which schools they invited. What part did Benson do?

Benson gets the pub...but, the Presidents make all the decisions? Is that how it works? Or am I missing something.

And, foresight ....Benson should have been prepared to loose another school. So that, the SBC could have already sponsored a CCG. They shouldn't still be waiting.
If he was diddling around with soccer instead of finding fb schools...then he wasn't doing his job properly.

I just feel like no one is leading this group. If it is Benson...then he should fix the fb problem. If it's the Presidents....then there is probably little Benson can do. Unless, he has a quality plan for the future.
The SBC isn't like the PAC, B1G, SEC, or Big 12. They can't just follow suit and do exactly what the big boys do. The SBC doesn't have the money, size of schools, markets and so many other factors that are built into those big boy conferences. So, comparing them is like comparing apples to oranges. The SBC is at the bottom...and must do more to hold their position. Constantly getting raided...is something that should be planned for...it shouldn't be a surprise to the Sun Belt Commissioner.
So, we have sat here for about 12 months...and we are still no closer to the SBC getting a 12th member. But, hey....we got the soccer thing figured out.
And there are still the tentative fb schools out west that hasn't been solidified.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:52 pm 
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Could it be possible that NMSU and Idaho have set up some type of agreement with the SBC to include any WAC fledgling fb programs? And once there are enough...they will all leave to restart WAC fb?
So, that NMSU and Idaho wouldn't ever be considered for SBC full membership and would be considered just temporary until further notice.

And the SBC...kind of sponsors a conference that will be beneath them, in the future.

Possible?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:51 pm 
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mozilla wrote:
Could it be possible that NMSU and Idaho have set up some type of agreement with the SBC to include any WAC fledgling fb programs? And once there are enough...they will all leave to restart WAC fb?
So, that NMSU and Idaho wouldn't ever be considered for SBC full membership and would be considered just temporary until further notice.

And the SBC...kind of sponsors a conference that will be beneath them, in the future.

Possible?

That won't happen, you'd need 6 more western fcs move up schools to be invited for fb only to the SBC. Then after the 2 year provisional period, the 6 schools, Idaho would have to become full members of the WAC, then the WAC would have to petition the NCAA to allow an 11th conference back into the FBS. I bet the other 10 fbs conf vote no, why split the 1 mill per school up to 12 w/ a whole other conf? They won't. You won't get 6 FCS school to take all those risks in the hopes of a slim to none outcome.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:02 pm 
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BePcr07 wrote:
For soccer, the 3 affiliates are Howard (DC), NJIT (NJ), and Hartwick (NY). I know Hartwick is a bit away but their men's soccer program was grandfathered into Division I like a bunch of hockey programs and other sparse teams at Division II and Division III schools. Hartwick was in the MAC. I am shocked (literally in awe) why they would have left the MAC. The other MAC men's soccer schools are Akron, Bowling Green, Buffalo, Northern Illinois, Western Michigan, and West Virginia. They left an "eh" soccer conference with 1 perennial powerhouse (Akron - go figure!) for a conference that could only be described as crappy. Howard men's soccer was ranked dead last (#203) by NCAA RPI - for those of you who don't understand soccer and the differences between Division I, II, and III, I played Division III soccer in the 2000s. We would play a Division I team who was consistently in the bottom 20 of NCAA RPI as a non-conference game and we went 0-1-2 (W/L/T). Our loss was 3-2 in OT. We were very average in Division III. Is there any information on why Hartwick moved?

Yes, there is.
Quote:
Hartwick was recently informed by the MAC that the College's contract would not be renewed due to the Conference's desire to move forward without multi-divisional institutions.

http://www.hartwickhawks.com/news/2014/ ... 41011.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Now for some speculation:
I think it's about hockey. I think the MAC intends to announce sponsorship of hockey this spring or, more likely, next spring, and they want to avoid any political pressure to include D2 schools (and former CCHA conference mates) such as Ferris State and Lake Superior State. They'll add only full D1 affiliates such as Robert Morris, Niagara, and Canisius, and of course encourage other MAC schools to add varsity hockey.

This season, for the first time, the MAC hockey schools have been split between two hockey conferences, and I don't think they like it. Plus, the travel has been brutal. This is also the first season all the Big Ten hockey schools have played in the same conference, and the increased level of excitement is another indication to the MAC that they should be sponsoring hockey.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:52 pm 
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Dennis wrote:
BePcr07 wrote:
For soccer, the 3 affiliates are Howard (DC), NJIT (NJ), and Hartwick (NY). I know Hartwick is a bit away but their men's soccer program was grandfathered into Division I like a bunch of hockey programs and other sparse teams at Division II and Division III schools. Hartwick was in the MAC. I am shocked (literally in awe) why they would have left the MAC. The other MAC men's soccer schools are Akron, Bowling Green, Buffalo, Northern Illinois, Western Michigan, and West Virginia. They left an "eh" soccer conference with 1 perennial powerhouse (Akron - go figure!) for a conference that could only be described as crappy. Howard men's soccer was ranked dead last (#203) by NCAA RPI - for those of you who don't understand soccer and the differences between Division I, II, and III, I played Division III soccer in the 2000s. We would play a Division I team who was consistently in the bottom 20 of NCAA RPI as a non-conference game and we went 0-1-2 (W/L/T). Our loss was 3-2 in OT. We were very average in Division III. Is there any information on why Hartwick moved?

Yes, there is.
Quote:
Hartwick was recently informed by the MAC that the College's contract would not be renewed due to the Conference's desire to move forward without multi-divisional institutions.

http://www.hartwickhawks.com/news/2014/ ... 41011.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Now for some speculation:
I think it's about hockey. I think the MAC intends to announce sponsorship of hockey this spring or, more likely, next spring, and they want to avoid any political pressure to include D2 schools (and former CCHA conference mates) such as Ferris State and Lake Superior State. They'll add only full D1 affiliates such as Robert Morris, Niagara, and Canisius, and of course encourage other MAC schools to add varsity hockey.

This season, for the first time, the MAC hockey schools have been split between two hockey conferences, and I don't think they like it. Plus, the travel has been brutal. This is also the first season all the Big Ten hockey schools have played in the same conference, and the increased level of excitement is another indication to the MAC that they should be sponsoring hockey.


That makes sense. I looked it up and only Bowling Green, Miami OH, and Western Michigan have hockey programs. Massachusetts does too, but I think they want to disassociate with the MAC. I'm surprised more MAC schools don't have hockey. They're in the hockiest part of America!


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:52 am 
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Fresno St. Alum wrote:
mozilla wrote:
Could it be possible that NMSU and Idaho have set up some type of agreement with the SBC to include any WAC fledgling fb programs? And once there are enough...they will all leave to restart WAC fb?
So, that NMSU and Idaho wouldn't ever be considered for SBC full membership and would be considered just temporary until further notice.

And the SBC...kind of sponsors a conference that will be beneath them, in the future.

Possible?

That won't happen, you'd need 6 more western fcs move up schools to be invited for fb only to the SBC. Then after the 2 year provisional period, the 6 schools, Idaho would have to become full members of the WAC, then the WAC would have to petition the NCAA to allow an 11th conference back into the FBS. I bet the other 10 fbs conf vote no, why split the 1 mill per school up to 12 w/ a whole other conf? They won't. You won't get 6 FCS school to take all those risks in the hopes of a slim to none outcome.


Maybe it won't happen on a FBS perspective, but how about re-starting fb, but as a FCS conference? It would be a great competition rival to the Big Sky schools.

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