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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 7:52 pm 
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JPSchmack wrote:
Honestly, I think Temple should turn down a C-USA/MWC invite for all sports.

Temple's ascension to the Big East is pretty much dependent on two things:
#1 - A football/basketball split that makes the Villanova strong-arm cease.
#2 - Being so good, the rest of the Big East says "screw you, we need them."

The MWC or MAC is immaterial for that. It would probably be easier to win the MAC than the MWCUSA.

While Temple could get some more dough because of this, they'd leave behind over $9 million in NCAA tournament revenue.

The only way it works for Temple is if they're seeing a MASSIVE increase in TV money.

Temple will almost certainly get more money and recognition as a football only member of the Big Mnt USA Conference than they do as a football only in the MAC (the only people invested in the MAC live in Michigan and Ohio) if not they would be dumb to move. Now whether or not they join in all sports is a different conversation but I see no reason for them to do that, Hawaii is fb only in the West, Temple could balance them out in the East keeping the divisions even...now if Hawaii joins in all sports, it could change things.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:27 am 
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tkalmus wrote:
JPSchmack wrote:
Honestly, I think Temple should turn down a C-USA/MWC invite for all sports.

Temple's ascension to the Big East is pretty much dependent on two things:
#1 - A football/basketball split that makes the Villanova strong-arm cease.
#2 - Being so good, the rest of the Big East says "screw you, we need them."

The MWC or MAC is immaterial for that. It would probably be easier to win the MAC than the MWCUSA.

While Temple could get some more dough because of this, they'd leave behind over $9 million in NCAA tournament revenue.

The only way it works for Temple is if they're seeing a MASSIVE increase in TV money.

Temple will almost certainly get more money and recognition as a football only member of the Big Mnt USA Conference than they do as a football only in the MAC (the only people invested in the MAC live in Michigan and Ohio) if not they would be dumb to move. Now whether or not they join in all sports is a different conversation but I see no reason for them to do that, Hawaii is fb only in the West, Temple could balance them out in the East keeping the divisions even...now if Hawaii joins in all sports, it could change things.


No doubt as a football-only member, it would be beneficial financially. But AMWCUSA needs a non-football playing member for all-sports balance. Adding Temple for all sports solves some problems. Adding Temple in football only still means adding someone else, and you know MWCUSA would love to nab Temple hoops to balance UNLV's power in the West.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:49 am 
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Salt Lake Trib article(previously posted in another thread)with comments from UNLV President regarding possible future expansion of the merged MWC/C-USA.Link at http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/sports/535 ... s.html.csp


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:00 am 
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CSNBBS MB thread discussing comments from ECU Chancellor regarding new merged MWC/C-USA league at http://www.csnbbs.com//showthread.php?tid=555411


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:29 pm 
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From the info so far in this thread ...

West
Fresno State
Nevada
UNLV
New Mexico
Colorado State
Wyoming
Air Force
Hawai'i (football only)

East
UTEP
Tulsa
Rice
Tulane
USM
UAB
ECU
Marshall

Immediate Expansion Candidates
Temple (Football only)
Utah State
San Jose State
La Tech
FIU

Expansion Possibilities
North Texas
Florida Atlantic

Future Expansion Candidates
UTSA
Charlotte
App State
Georgia State


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:32 am 
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It occured to me that the entire WAC (minus non-FB schools Seattle & Denver) could be absorbed by the MWCUSA and the Sun-Belt working in concert:

MWCUSA goes to 24

West:
Hawaii (FB only) / Boise St* (all but FB, FB in Big East)
Fresno State
San Jose State *
Nevada
UNLV
Idaho *

Utah State *
Wyoming
Colorado State
Aif Force
New Mexico
UTEP (from CUSA)

East:
Tulsa
Rice
(WAC / Sun-Belt school, let's say North Texas) *
Tulane
(WAC / Sun-Belt school, let's say Louisiana Tech) *
Southern Mississippi

Alabama-Birmingham
(Sun-Belt school, let's say Southern Alabama) *
(Sun-Belt school, let's say Florida International)
East Carolina
Marshall
(Sun-Belt school or Temple)*

when the dust settles, the WAC and Sun-Belt would lose all of the FB schools in the Western WAC (3), Boise State,
and about 5 other schools.

At that point, the WAC and Sun-Belt have about 11 to 12 football-playing schools left between them,
so the Sun-Belt just absorbs the remaining WAC FB schools.
And you have Benson magically presiding over many of the current WAC schools.
It just seems like too many coincidences supporting this.

I think Denver and Seattle talk to the Big Sky.
Great West - maybe UVU could talk to Big Sky as well. UTPA to SLC would be nice,
UCBakersfield, Chicago State, and NJIT may need to go independent.
UALR still sticks out like a sore thumb as only non-FB school in Sun-Belt.
Not sure if the other members wouldn't quietly work to help them move to the Summit.

All this could result in 3 conferences disappearing from the D-1 landscape:
one of MWC / CUSA, the WAC, and the Great West.
I think Doug Fullerton of the Big Sky has implied that something like this was in the offing.....


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:15 am 
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Why not just call this thing "NCAA Light"? It's beginning to resemble a merger of the International League and Pacifc Coast League for rhe minors. Too bad, I had hopes for the MWC a few years ago.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:50 am 
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Andy Katz article discussing future of new merged MWC/C-USA at http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketb ... basketball


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:17 am 
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If the plan is to operate as one conference then 24 full members doesn't make sense. If you end up with 22-24 full members then you're going to end up operating as two large 11-12 team conferences that just have a playoff at the end of the season (which could mean less postseason berths, which will lead to a split). As of right now, I think the best move is to go to 20 in football by trying to get schools to join for football only.

Temple is the first and most obvious target. San Jose State would be a good addition for football only and they'd easily find a non football home in the Big West. After that, there aren't any established football only options (but UMass and Charlotte will be targets in the future). So two full members are needed. Getting back into Florida is a must so FIU will probably get in. The last school in would be between N Texas, La Tech, and Utah State. Since the Eastern schools got FIU, the Western schools will probably get Utah State in exchange.

Divisions would be:
East- ECU, UAB, Marshall, FIU, Temple*
South - S Miss, Tulsa, Rice, Tulane, UTEP
Mountain - AFA, Col St, UNM, Wyom, Utah St
West - UNR, UNLV, FSU, SJSU*, Hawaii*

From here you can just let things play out. If AFA leaves, UTEP slides into the Mountain and N. Texas or La Tech is brought in. Hopefully the next wave of expansion is a couple years away and Charlotte and UMass can improve and come into the conference. At that point, the conference could try to go to 24 football members, while keeping a reasonable number of full members.

Ultimately I see:
East - UAB, Marshall, FIU, Temple*, UMass*, Charlotte*
South - S Miss, Tulsa, Rice, Tulane, La Tech, N Texas (UTSA fills in if S. Miss or Tulsa goes to Big East)
Mountain - CSU, UNM, Wyom, Utah St, UTEP, NMSU
West - UNR, UNLV, FSU, SJSU*, Hawaii*, Idaho*

BYU is preferred over Idaho but I don't think they'll go for it. 18/24 keeps the conference at a reasonable size for non football, and will still allow them to have their semifinals in football. There are an even number of Eastern and Western schools so divisions are simple. You go bigger than 18 or 19 full members and this conference would last.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:37 pm 
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SJSUFan2010 wrote:
If the plan is to operate as one conference then 24 full members doesn't make sense. If you end up with 22-24 full members then you're going to end up operating as two large 11-12 team conferences that just have a playoff at the end of the season (which could mean less postseason berths, which will lead to a split). As of right now, I think the best move is to go to 20 in football by trying to get schools to join for football only.

Temple is the first and most obvious target. San Jose State would be a good addition for football only and they'd easily find a non football home in the Big West. After that, there aren't any established football only options (but UMass and Charlotte will be targets in the future). So two full members are needed. Getting back into Florida is a must so FIU will probably get in. The last school in would be between N Texas, La Tech, and Utah State. Since the Eastern schools got FIU, the Western schools will probably get Utah State in exchange.

Divisions would be:
East- ECU, UAB, Marshall, FIU, Temple*
South - S Miss, Tulsa, Rice, Tulane, UTEP
Mountain - AFA, Col St, UNM, Wyom, Utah St
West - UNR, UNLV, FSU, SJSU*, Hawaii*

From here you can just let things play out. If AFA leaves, UTEP slides into the Mountain and N. Texas or La Tech is brought in. Hopefully the next wave of expansion is a couple years away and Charlotte and UMass can improve and come into the conference. At that point, the conference could try to go to 24 football members, while keeping a reasonable number of full members.

Ultimately I see:
East - UAB, Marshall, FIU, Temple*, UMass*, Charlotte*
South - S Miss, Tulsa, Rice, Tulane, La Tech, N Texas (UTSA fills in if S. Miss or Tulsa goes to Big East)
Mountain - CSU, UNM, Wyom, Utah St, UTEP, NMSU
West - UNR, UNLV, FSU, SJSU*, Hawaii*, Idaho*

BYU is preferred over Idaho but I don't think they'll go for it. 18/24 keeps the conference at a reasonable size for non football, and will still allow them to have their semifinals in football. There are an even number of Eastern and Western schools so divisions are simple. You go bigger than 18 or 19 full members and this conference would last.



Due to various NCAA membership rules currently in place, I would think if the number were 20, you'd have to have (2) 10 school divisions, ideal for 9 game conference schedule. You then can do a "top 2" in each division for the "semi final" they are proposing, which would fall within the current rule structure. Winners of the "top 2" divisional games goto the final.

Now for 24 schools, I think you could have what would be (2) "pods" per division (since we're so used to using "League" for the mother entity, "conference" for the 2 separations, and "division" for the splits within a "conference"..."pod" is the word we use now since "conference" is the mother entity). The "divisions" would need to remain the same each year, with the pods remaining the same. In accordance with the NCAA rules, the championship game would still be the winners of the (2) division league. Can still do 6 and 6 "pods" for each division with those 2 winners playing each other, winner to the championship game.

In theory, the same could be done for 20 schools with 5-school pods, and divisions of 10...just that it wouldn't be 1 vs 2 in the semifinal, it would be PodA #1 vs PodB#1.

The easy move seems to be to just bring in Temple for FB only, to help out with ECU and Marshall, and add some northeast TV to the Countrywide Conference. I do think there would be some benefit if there were more schools, if we talking solely from a market angle (for TV rights gains):

North Texas: no Dallas schools in the conference now, UNT fills that void.
Utah St: replaces lost SLC market, keeps conference relevant in Utah where so many nearby schools exist.
SJSU: program hasn't really done much, but it's the Bay Area, and there are a ton of TVs there. A local school would help turn some of those games on peoples TVs.
FIU: with no Florida presence, and none of the Top 4 options available, FIU makes some sense. Like with SJSU, it's some access to the Miami market in a day when networks are paying big money for live sports rights. FIU games might actually do better on TV if the market is getting a nice variety of schools from around the entire US...albeit Temple (Philly...snowbirds retired in Miami), ECU, UNLV, etc.
UMass: new to FBS, haven't done a thing. But if you add Temple, you do push the footprint north to the population dense region. Adding a western MA school playing in the Boston market would help. Living in Boston, with so many UMass alumni, I can tell you that a UMass vs UNLV game on TV would get more eyeballs than Umass vs Akron. Now, a UMass vs ECU game, that might get more eyeballs than BC vs Wake Forest.


Countrywide Conference (20 schools):

Eastern Division
East Pod: UAB, Marshall, FIU, Temple, UMass
South Pod: USM, Tulsa, Rice, Tulane, N Texas

Western Division:
Mountain Pod: CSU, UNM, Wyom, Utah St, UTEP
Pacific Pod: UNR, UNLV, FSU, SJSU, Hawaii*


Lots of other schools that might make more sense over Temple, Umass, etc. Schools like LA Tech, Charlotte, App St., GSU, Georgia St., etc. It's just a matter of the conference doing what is best for their TV deal. To humans, adding LA Tech, North Texas, Utah St. would be a gimme. But when factoring in TV for a coast to coast conference, schools that shouldn't be in the discussion actually are.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:07 pm 
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Countrywide Conference (20 schools):

Eastern Division
East Pod: UAB, Marshall, FIU, Temple, UMass
South Pod: USM, Tulsa, Rice, Tulane, N Texas

Western Division:
Mountain Pod: CSU, UNM, Wyom, Utah St, UTEP
Pacific Pod: UNR, UNLV, FSU, SJSU, Hawaii*


What happen to ECU and Air Force?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:14 pm 
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TV Market Info is from US Census Statistical Areas

Appalachian State (20k students)
Market: Boone, NC (rural)
Kidd-Brewer Stadium (20k capacity)

Charlotte (20k students)
Market: Charlotte-Gastonia-Salisbury, NC (Rank: 33)
McColl-Richardson Field (15k/45k capacity (expandable))

Florida Atlantic (30k students)
Market: Miami-Ft Lauderdale-Pompano Beach, FL (Rank: 8)
FAU Stadium (30k/65k capacity (expandable))

Florida International (45k students)
Market: Miami-Ft Lauderdale-Pompano Beach, FL (Rank: 8)
FIU Community Stadium (25k/45k capacity (expandable))

Georgia State (30k students)
Market: Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Marietta, GA (Rank: 9)
Georgia Dome (75k capacity)

Louisiana Tech (10k students)
Market: Ruston, LA (rural)
Joe Aillet Stadium (30k capacity)

Massachusetts (25k students)
Market: Springfield, MA (Rank: 76)
Gillette Stadium (70k capacity)

North Texas (35k students)
Market: Dallas-Ft. Worth-Arlington, TX (Rank: 4)
Mean Green Stadium (30k capacity)

San Jose State (25k students)
Market: San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara, CA (Rank: 31)
Spartan Stadium (30k capacity)

Temple (35k students)
Market: Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington, PA (Rank: 5)
Lincoln Financial Stadium (70k capacity)

Texas-San Antonio (30k students)
Market: San Antonio-New Braunfels (Rank: 25)
Alamodome (65k/70k capacity)

Utah State (30k students)
Market: Logan, UT (rural)
Romney Stadium (25k capacity)


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:07 pm 
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Here's what I would do if I were the new conference commish:

20 teams, 4 divisions

West
Fresno State
Nevada
UNLV
New Mexico
Hawai'i (football)

Mountain
Wyoming
Colorado State
Air Force
UTEP (From CUSA)
Tulsa (From CUSA)

Central
Alabama-Birmingham
Tulane
USM
Rice
UTSA (from WAC)

East
ECU
Marshall
FIU (from Sun Belt)
Temple (from MAC)
UMass (from MAC)

************

Later, I would add:
San Jose State (from WAC) - West
North Texas (from Sun Belt) - Mountain
Georgia State (from CAA) - Central
Charlotte (from A10) - East


Comments?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:39 pm 
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Temple fb only and one of the F_U's :P and lets call it done

West
Fresno St.
Nevada
UNLV
Colorado St.
Air Force
Wyoming
New Mexico
UTEP
Hawaii*
East
Tulsa
Rice
Tulane
S.Miss
UAB
E.Carolina
Marshall
FIU
Temple*

8 Div games 1 x-over. and Conf title game.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:53 pm 
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Quinn wrote:
SJSUFan2010 wrote:
If the plan is to operate as one conference then 24 full members doesn't make sense. If you end up with 22-24 full members then you're going to end up operating as two large 11-12 team conferences that just have a playoff at the end of the season (which could mean less postseason berths, which will lead to a split). As of right now, I think the best move is to go to 20 in football by trying to get schools to join for football only.

Temple is the first and most obvious target. San Jose State would be a good addition for football only and they'd easily find a non football home in the Big West. After that, there aren't any established football only options (but UMass and Charlotte will be targets in the future). So two full members are needed. Getting back into Florida is a must so FIU will probably get in. The last school in would be between N Texas, La Tech, and Utah State. Since the Eastern schools got FIU, the Western schools will probably get Utah State in exchange.

Divisions would be:
East- ECU, UAB, Marshall, FIU, Temple*
South - S Miss, Tulsa, Rice, Tulane, UTEP
Mountain - AFA, Col St, UNM, Wyom, Utah St
West - UNR, UNLV, FSU, SJSU*, Hawaii*

From here you can just let things play out. If AFA leaves, UTEP slides into the Mountain and N. Texas or La Tech is brought in. Hopefully the next wave of expansion is a couple years away and Charlotte and UMass can improve and come into the conference. At that point, the conference could try to go to 24 football members, while keeping a reasonable number of full members.

Ultimately I see:
East - UAB, Marshall, FIU, Temple*, UMass*, Charlotte*
South - S Miss, Tulsa, Rice, Tulane, La Tech, N Texas (UTSA fills in if S. Miss or Tulsa goes to Big East)
Mountain - CSU, UNM, Wyom, Utah St, UTEP, NMSU
West - UNR, UNLV, FSU, SJSU*, Hawaii*, Idaho*

BYU is preferred over Idaho but I don't think they'll go for it. 18/24 keeps the conference at a reasonable size for non football, and will still allow them to have their semifinals in football. There are an even number of Eastern and Western schools so divisions are simple. You go bigger than 18 or 19 full members and this conference would last.



Due to various NCAA membership rules currently in place, I would think if the number were 20, you'd have to have (2) 10 school divisions, ideal for 9 game conference schedule. You then can do a "top 2" in each division for the "semi final" they are proposing, which would fall within the current rule structure. Winners of the "top 2" divisional games goto the final.

Now for 24 schools, I think you could have what would be (2) "pods" per division (since we're so used to using "League" for the mother entity, "conference" for the 2 separations, and "division" for the splits within a "conference"..."pod" is the word we use now since "conference" is the mother entity). The "divisions" would need to remain the same each year, with the pods remaining the same. In accordance with the NCAA rules, the championship game would still be the winners of the (2) division league. Can still do 6 and 6 "pods" for each division with those 2 winners playing each other, winner to the championship game.

In theory, the same could be done for 20 schools with 5-school pods, and divisions of 10...just that it wouldn't be 1 vs 2 in the semifinal, it would be PodA #1 vs PodB#1.

The easy move seems to be to just bring in Temple for FB only, to help out with ECU and Marshall, and add some northeast TV to the Countrywide Conference. I do think there would be some benefit if there were more schools, if we talking solely from a market angle (for TV rights gains):

North Texas: no Dallas schools in the conference now, UNT fills that void.
Utah St: replaces lost SLC market, keeps conference relevant in Utah where so many nearby schools exist.
SJSU: program hasn't really done much, but it's the Bay Area, and there are a ton of TVs there. A local school would help turn some of those games on peoples TVs.
FIU: with no Florida presence, and none of the Top 4 options available, FIU makes some sense. Like with SJSU, it's some access to the Miami market in a day when networks are paying big money for live sports rights. FIU games might actually do better on TV if the market is getting a nice variety of schools from around the entire US...albeit Temple (Philly...snowbirds retired in Miami), ECU, UNLV, etc.
UMass: new to FBS, haven't done a thing. But if you add Temple, you do push the footprint north to the population dense region. Adding a western MA school playing in the Boston market would help. Living in Boston, with so many UMass alumni, I can tell you that a UMass vs UNLV game on TV would get more eyeballs than Umass vs Akron. Now, a UMass vs ECU game, that might get more eyeballs than BC vs Wake Forest.


Countrywide Conference (20 schools):

Eastern Division
East Pod: UAB, Marshall, FIU, Temple, UMass
South Pod: USM, Tulsa, Rice, Tulane, N Texas

Western Division:
Mountain Pod: CSU, UNM, Wyom, Utah St, UTEP
Pacific Pod: UNR, UNLV, FSU, SJSU, Hawaii*


Lots of other schools that might make more sense over Temple, Umass, etc. Schools like LA Tech, Charlotte, App St., GSU, Georgia St., etc. It's just a matter of the conference doing what is best for their TV deal. To humans, adding LA Tech, North Texas, Utah St. would be a gimme. But when factoring in TV for a coast to coast conference, schools that shouldn't be in the discussion actually are.


Could almost name the divisions after the time zones. It actually almost works
Eastern: Marshall, FIU, Temple, UMass, UAB
Central: USM, Tulsa, Tulane, N Texas, Rice
Mountain: CSU, UNM, Wyoming, Utah St, UTEP
Pacific: FSU, SJSU, UNR, UNLV, Hawaii

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