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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 3:07 pm 
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ND will have barely anything to do with the BE in football for years, then possibly 3 games per year. That probably means annual or bi-annual games against Pitt and a chance of playing the 7 others every 3 - 4 years. Until the Big 10 move, that is.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 3:28 pm 
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Personally if the BE can find 2 all sports members to make the conference 10, then they could add Army and Navy as football only. That would be a win for win for the service academies and the BE. All of this assuming the conference splits, which is very likely.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 7:18 pm 
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ND is a real part of the BE.They have decided that will only play a partial BE football schedule.However,they are a part of the BE bowl package.
ND football schedule Army,Navy and Rutgers.They each will play ND at South Bend.Both the Army and Rutgers home games are to be played at Meadowlands.The Navy home game will be played at the Baltimore stadium.The question of Villanova is yet to be resolved.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 12:38 pm 
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Gunnerfan, interesting comment on your previous post on possibliity of ACC shopping its second place team from the Gator to another bowl. I would think the issue driving change with the Gator has more to do with the Gator funding interest (TV concerns) than ACC having any issues with the Big East number 2 or Notre Dame playing in the Gator. I realize the media hype has the ACC as the second or third best conference in football, however, that has not be proven on the field yet and the ACC does not match the Big 10 in football history. Not sure the ACC could find a better bowl for its second place team without strong arming another conference out of the Capital One for example.

The Gator should just hold up and wait and see how the Big East performs over the next few years. With the exception of Va Tech, the three Big East defectors of Miami and BC do not travel well to minor bowls and Louisville along with WVU and Notre Dame provide good benefits for future travel to the Gator. Less not forget a sleeping giant as referred in some pre season football post, South Florida with a good team would bring the same type of fan interest as Florida State to the Gator Bowl. Connecticut proved last season that its fans will travel better than BC and who knows what type of following Rutgers fans would take to Jacksonville if Rutgers could just get its act together.

Many would like to see the new configured Big East fail. This was true when the Big East first formed with Miami and history proved many wrong. The new Big East football has much potential if you look at the bottom line.

Westwolf, Notre Dame is not going to the Big 10 in our life time so less give than one a rest please!.

Villanova to the Big East for football? I think Villanova fans are getting a little nervous. The intent was probably true that the basketball schools including Villanova wanted to bring in Marquette and Depaul for future security if a split were to occur. At the time the new Big East was making choices on its future there was a good chance the split was going to happen right away and Villanova did not have time to think about moving up to 1A football and supporting Marquette and Depaul made sense. Gunnerfan, the previous point probably did not allow for a plan of keeping 14 members and Villanova as a possible future 9th member would be my guess.

With the transition now complete, Villanova fans are looking at the 8 Big East football schools and see a possible future great all sports conference. This year, the eight football schools will have Louisville, Cincinnatti, Syracuse, UConn, and upstart WVU in the pre season top 25 for basketball. Pitt, Rutgers, and South Florida are not that far behind.

With all the issues and concerns with the BCS and the possiblity the BCS may not survive the Big East football schools will have time to settle and gain some ground back in reputation in the next few years for football. Like or not Notre Dame will help with bowl tie ins for the next few years as well. Notre Dame has many benefits by supporting Big East football and has opening stated support for the football conference in the past including maintaining BCS membership for Big East football.

If I were a Villanova fan, my preference would be to push the school to upgrade to 1A as soon as possible.

If the Big East is going to split in the near future the conference will most likely go to 10 members for football. A 10 member all league was the plan if a split were going to occur. Time could be running out on Villanova. My previous thoughts were the remaining 8 non football schools would continue to survive and possibly thrive without the football schools. I am starting to think otherwise and Villanova fans may be doing the same. This is probably why so many rumors of Villanova moving up to 1A for football to ensure the other sports have a future strong home as well.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 9:32 pm 
Lash, I will let Westwolf defend his own comments. However, IF Notre Dame ever joined a conference for fb, I believe there is solid logic that it would be the BIG 10. That is not to suggest anything is currently in the works with the Big 10; and Notre Dame, has affirmed its independence. In several years though, the landscape and conditions could change whereby Notre Dame may change their minds.
One thing is obvious, there will be NO Notre Dame in BE fb.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 10:04 pm 
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Yes 3 games per year by ND with the BE and the bowl alliance with the BE means nothing.Possibly even a 4th game still means nothing.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:42 am 
Notre Dame already has minimum three games, for many years, with the Big 10, i. e. Purdue, Michigan State, and Michigan.
The Big10 has enough quality teams whereby they do not need to be coupled with a lone independent to vie for a minor bowl bid.
The Big East has West Virginia. Beyond them, most high profile bowls will cringe at the prospects. UCONN and Louisville may offer some promise though.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 10:10 am 
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I agree Notre Dame to the Big 10 will happen. Reason - the BE would offer opponents that Notre Dame does not want to play ie Louisville, Cincinnati, and South Florida. Big 10 all the schools fit the profile of schools Notre Dame wants to play. The thing is would Notre Dame force its hand into a eastern division of the Big 10 with Michigan, Michigan St, Ohio State, Purdue and Penn State. Those schools on the schedule annually would be great and please the ND faithful. Or the least attractive regular season schedule at least to ND fans with the western Big 10 schools, but ND would have a better shot at playing in the Big 10 championship game. Iowa, Illinois, Wisconsin, Northwestern, and Minnesota is not Michigan or Ohio State but still those schools would be better than Louisville or Cincinnati in the minds of ND fans. Trouble is those schools don't fit other than Chicago, ND target market. Just some intresting thoughts about Notre Dame.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 10:57 am 
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Sometimes, I get the sense that Notre Dame will spend so much time trying to regain past glory whilst missing the message that, by the time they realize they'll have to join a conference, they'll be A-10 material.

Now, I can certainly be accused of wishful thinking... but these things are usually in flux.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:10 pm 
Notable points Sportskc and Pounder. While Notre Dame may have wishful thinking of past glory, I just wonder if the BE may be engaged in the same about landing Notre Dame through a scheme of gradually elevating their association with BE football. While the interpretation of gestures ND has made toward the BE have been taken beyond the point of reality, ND's toe in the door with BE fb and their bb-plus affiliation with the BE, offers some a faint expectation.
Agree, ND is not going to want to play Cincy, L'ville, and USF. They would be happy to play Pitt every year as they do, and such with Syracuse would not be bad either. They could accept West Virginia as a regular but it would not be like playing Michigan every year. The others, perhaps, they would tolerate playing at times. Teams that Notre Dame plays in football have a certain character about them; schools from the Big10 fit the bill, as a group, compared to most others. The geography for Notre Dame in the Big10 could not be better in terms of conference designs.
It is not necessarily the W-L records of opponents that Notre Dame will schedule. They tend to be big state universities/major land grants and named privates who have a long football tradition behind them, not necessarily recent success. The service academies, while not always the strongest of competitors in recent times, have rich tradition and academic prestige.
There are several schools in the BE that do not fit the above. Notre Dame will embrace what it views as the "elite" which includes factors other than opponents victory margin. Notre Dame will schedule a BYU, a Rice, and an Arizona. They will not schedule a Boise State, a LA-Monroe, or a South Florida.
The Big East when it splits, may add two eastern division C-USA types (depending on BCS criteria at the time). The additions of Army and Navy for fb only to allow of a 12 member fb conference and a championship game (as one poster mentioned) is a possibility among others. The BE options will be limited. The will not lure Penn State or another team from another BCS conference. C-USA and the MAC are not loaded with very attractive possibilities. Rather than dwell on divergent speculations involving Notre Dame, the BE needs to be looking at East Carolina, Alabama-Birmingham, Central Florida, Memphis, or Marshall. It doesn't look pretty, but that is where their realistic expansion option may dwell.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 8:26 pm 
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The Big East when it splits, may add two eastern division C-USA types (depending on BCS criteria at the time). The additions of Army and Navy for fb only to allow of a 12 member fb conference and a championship game (as one poster mentioned) is a possibility among others. The BE options will be limited. The will not lure Penn State or another team from another BCS conference. C-USA and the MAC are not loaded with very attractive possibilities. Rather than dwell on divergent speculations involving Notre Dame, the BE needs to be looking at East Carolina, Alabama-Birmingham, Central Florida, Memphis, or Marshall. It doesn't look pretty, but that is where their realistic expansion option may dwell.


The best geographically for them would be East Carolina and Marshall. Marshall will get blocked by West Virginia though, unless the state pulls a Virginia on the BE. Temple would be a good choice, but I doubt the BE goes back there. UCF has the market, but that is about it. Memphis and UAB are a little too far west, besides Louisville will probally try to keep Memphis out. By the way Memphis better not complain too much they are set up in CUSA very well if they take care of business. A suprise team in all of this could very well be Ohio Bobcats. If Solich gets the football team turned around watch out they could be a darkhouse for the BE on "name" alone.


Last edited by sportskc on Fri Jun 24, 2005 8:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 8:32 pm 
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ND will not join the b10,since they will lose money from what they are getting today.As part of the b10 they will be a small fish in a big pond.They would rather be a big fish in a little bond with a lot of money and power.Also they have told the b10 they were not joining in 1999.Being part of the BE bowl grouping is something the b10 would not offer them without full membership.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:12 pm 
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A suprise team in all of this could very well be Ohio Bobcats. If Solich gets the football team turned around watch out they could be a darkhouse for the BE on "name" alone.


Cincinnati and Ohio were founding members of the MAC, and have played each other 50 times in football. The last time the two schools met on the grid iron was in 1981. Cincinnati made a decision to discontinue the Ohio series in favor of playing more eastern independents. Soon after in 1986, Cincinnati deemphasized the Miami of Ohio series from a season ending rivalry tilt to a game played annually at any random weekend. The only reason why Miami has stayed on the schedule of UC all these years is because they are classified as a "regional rival" while Ohio is not.

The UC situation is similar to WVU who would block the upstart Marshall from ever joining the Big East. The difference is UC's biggest rivals were Ohio and Miami and they've been moving toward trying to create separation, while WVU never really played Marshall before and is being slowly forced into playing them.

Ohio does have a few advantages over Marshall. Ohio's market is southern ohio, then maybe Columbus. A region where the Big East has zero presence. Ohio has a radio network with coverage that stretches from the eastern suburbs of Cincinnati to 50 miles across the West Virginia boarder. Ohio has branch campuses across that region additionally. People in southern Ohio will root for the Buckeyes first, but the Bobcats are the clear second preference well ahead of the rest of the MAC and UC. WVU has zero interest in southern Ohio, and only of equal interest in the some of the counties in West Virginia that boarder Ohio University with a few Bobcat radio stations in West Virginia. Marshall on the other hand in its Charleston-Huntington market shares that with West Virginia, who as a statewide school has a large following already in that part of the state.

Marshall does nothing for recruiting because their in a talent poor state, while the Bobcats are in a talent rich state of ohio, and is considered one of the most popular schools in the state which would help the Big East in recruiting. On the subject of basketball, Ohio has one of the biggest followings in the MAC with the largest arena (13,000 seats) in the conference. The Bobcats could draw 10,000 a game in basketball playing in the Big East. Marshall's basketball arena seats only 8,000 and the program is mostly an afterthought among Herd fans behind the football program.

The question really for the Ohio Bobcats is whether UC would block the Bobcats from entering. My guess from UC's past behaviors of breaking its traditional scheduling relationships with the Bobcats is that they would not be in favor of adding Ohio. Now if the scenario played out where the Big East lost even more schools to the ACC, they would have to reevaluate their stance toward the MAC and accept a few members from that conference for geography reasons.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 6:05 am 
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Don't count on MAC schools being brought into the BE..Also such CUSA schools as ECU,Marshal or Memphis have likely been turned down already.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 1:24 pm 
MAC schools such as Ohio, Miami of Ohio, and Toledo are frequently mentioned as future BE possibilities.
As Sportskc & Father noted, they do have a recognizable name and a good location in southeastern Ohio.

The Jim Grobe (now at Wake Forest) years brought some success at Ohio. Ohio, though, is not regarded as a MAC powerhouse in football. Penden stadium in Athens holds 24,000. While that is not too far off for the 30,000 or so seating for most MAC schools, it would be a concern for the BE. Toledo, one of the most successful MAC programs, holds 26,248 at the Glass Bowl. Yager stadium at Miami of Ohio holds 27,000.

While some current BE schools don't draw a whole lot more than the 25K for some games, it is assumed the BE would perhaps expect facilities upgrades at certain in-coming schools if the conference split and then expanded on the football. That being said, Ohio and maybe one or two others from the MAC could possibly upgrade.

East Carolina keeps getting ignored. There are obvious reasons the ACC did not want them (another NC campus, too close to NC four, not that many years away from Southern Conference, directional name, market already covered, and lower academic profile). However, for the BE, some of these reasons would not apply. They would bridge and expand the BE footprint and provide a team from the core of ACC territory. While the ACC does not want ECU, they would not want them in another BCS conference either. East Carolina has good facilities, including 43,000 seat Dowdy-Ficklen stadium. New coach, Skip Holtz, may prove to be a good match for re-building the strength of a fb program that has had some past success. The BCS system hurt ECU; if they became a part of it, the program would be more competitive. Being in North Carolina, and if they became BE-type, their basketball success could move from the edge to a formidable competitor. ECU has a relatively new medical school and comparatively strong teacher education programs among others. It passes.



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