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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 8:05 pm 
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The state of West Virginia is neither geographically nor culturally "North." Although it is south of the Mason-Dixon line, Morgantown is a lot closer in both respects than the rest of the state. However, I agree that it makes sense for the conference to develop a division that is distinctly "East." By tradition over the past 3 or 4 decades, WVU's rivalries lie in the Northeast.

Since the heart of the new Big East Football conference now lies in the Ohio Valley, Memphis certainly deserves & will get more consideration than it did before. There is no longer anything that is very much "East" about the conference & with 3 new members now voting, the majority hae little reason to preserve that identity.


Last edited by friarfan on Tue Jul 05, 2005 8:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 10:40 pm 
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I still think if given the chance again Louisville and Cincy will try to screw Memphis. I'm sorry but I don't see Memphis getting into the Big East.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 6:37 am 
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No CUSA schools are going to the BE as all-sports members.ECU's bid for a football only membership was not even taken seriously.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 9:49 am 
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Quote:
No CUSA schools are going to the BE as all-sports members.ECU's bid for a football only membership was not even taken seriously.


You still think Notre Dame and Villanova will join the BE FB when the football schools splits ::)


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 11:19 am 
L'ville, USF, Cincy, DePaul, & Marquette, were all in C-USA. If BE split and/or expanded, no doubt, they may look in that direction again.

The Notre Dame & Villanova scenarios that have been posted would assume, for the long term, that BE will not split, and therefore for fb expansion, be limited to enticements and elevations from current BE sports participants. This assumes two major points:
1. That the BE, holding together, and expanding with what they did the last two years, are embracing this format on factors exceeding the payouts over the next few years, or to 2010, of past NCAA bb tournament revenues obligated to the named conference.
2. The fb schools are fundamentally satisfied with the quantity and quality of the current membership, desire no fb championship game or divisional play, and believe, from within the conference, new prospects are available, i. e. Notre Dame, Villanova, and/or Georgetown.
The above assumptions would be flawed, because of the following:
1. A declaration by Notre Dame to play three BE fb games eventually, falls far short of fb conference membership. While this may offer some recognition and revenue for the involved schools, it is coupled with Notre Dame's recent affirmed stance of staying fb independent. Even with a split, the odd association with ND could still continue if desired.
2. If ND did decide to explore conference membership, there are few who think it would be the BE. When speculated upon, the B10 garners the strongest interest.
3. For Villanova and/or Georgetown to upgrade will require extensive commitments and revenues that have not been announced or proposed via the press.
4. Pittsburgh, Syracuse, and West Virginia are long-established, successful, and prominent programs. It is hard to believe they would hold themselves in limbo for an undetermined number of years dependent upon 1-AA upgrades from a couple private schools not neccessarily rich in fb tradition. Also, while being associated with Notre Dame may have some merit, the high profile programs in the BE cannot be silly enough to stake their future sports prospects on a hopeful commitment they fundamentally know will never develop.
5. The tie-in with the bb schools will certainly negate or highly limit the 8 fb schools from expanding outside the current BE. Schools that may consider fb only membership, i. e. East Carolina, are few, and would re-establish the Temple syndrome which did not work well previously.
6. The 8 fb schools will be focused on an "all sports" objective because that is what they are. The current configuration of the BE is counter to that. Why would the fb schools limit their options and cut themselves from exploring potential associations that are not part of the current BE bb group?

The split shall come!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 6:44 pm 
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The destruction of the strong bb conference will not make football stronger.No need for weak teams from the new cUSA or the MAC.The ND tie in help the BE with tv,bowls and scheduling strong opponents.Georgtown is a member of patriot league football 1AA and is not upgrading to 1A.Villanova is 1AA CAA and may upgrade.And finally as in 1999 ,ND is not joining the b10.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:31 pm 
Most view the BE status quo will not hold. Miami, VPI, BC and Syracuse (having been willing to leave) proved that. Next in line, West Virginia, Pittsburgh, etc. Is this new BE more formidable than the last one? Think not! Perhaps the next one will be for the fb schools after the split. What exists now is grand for Providence, DePaul, Seton Hall, Marquette, DePaul, Villanova and Notre Dame. Except for Notre Dame, the BCS is not pertinent to those, and Notre Dame has their own BCS criteria---exclusive of BE.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 9:23 pm 
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Notre Dame has once again affirmed its commitment to independence. They now have a Notre Dame guy at the helm who understands the school's culture & traditions. If he can make it work, expect them to remain independent for a long time to come.

However, what if it doesn't work under the new regime? For all the charges of unfairness thrown at Notre Dame's "special deal" in the BCS, their BCS qualification requirements have not worked to their advantage. How long can they sit on the sidelines of BCS bowls & watch lesser programs go to a BCS bowl? I think that the next 5 years will be telling for their future. As we approach 20 years since their last national championsip during this period, the dreams of old men may fade & a new generation may demand chage & conference membership may be revisited. Of course, if the program is restored to former glory, all this will be moot.

Georgetown has serious financial problems & will not consider IA football anytime in the foreseeable future.

When the Big East offered its members the opportunity to upgrade to IA with the guarantee of conference membership, Villanova did a cost/benefit study & concluded that the investment required was not in their interests. I have no idea whether anything has changed at the university in the past half dozen years & they may be reconsidering for all I know. But they did not pass on the opportunity lightly before. They took a serious look at it & declined. Until I hear otherwise, I will assume that any rumors are wishful thinking.

Clearly the new Big East will not be around in its present form in 50 years. It was formed as a stop gap measure. However, I do not expect it to change overnight. The conference is a basketball juggernaut & that will not be sacrificed capriciously. There will have to be serious benefits in order for that to happen. Those benefits may be available after the current 5 year agreement, or it may take longer. Right now there just aren't many good candidates available. Memphis may be the only one & it is in the heart of SEC country. Any other pretenders are also in areas congested with BCS programs. There is plenty of opporunity in the big population centers of the Northeast, but no real takers. Again, change may come slowly.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 10:18 am 
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>>Clearly the new Big East will not be around in its present form in 50 years. <<

Nor will we, FF.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:27 pm 
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;D ;D ;D

Point well taken, Wolf Guy. :)


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 3:45 pm 
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Name another independent team in 1A football
1.Plays all other sports besides football in a conference
2.Has a bowl arrangement package for 1A football
3.plays 3 teams out of 8 in the conference
The answer is NONE.The ND BE relationship is clearly unique.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 8:04 pm 
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Now, TS2, the 3 games don't start for another 6 years at the earliest. Just dribs and drabs until then. Don't put the cart before the horse.



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 8:39 pm 
Being that Temple is now going to the MAC for fb, that leaves 3 1-A fb independents and two of those are military service academies. Yeah, two have commonality and one is unique with an exclusionary (of the BE) BCS arrangement; and some non-BCS bowl saying a BE team OR ND. I guess that is unique----a four party pack: the bowl, one conference guaranteed a spot regardless, and ND (if they have a winning season but not good enough for their BCS spot to kick in---if not----ho hum, #2 or whatever from the BE.
(This is not to demean BE football, but that is the kind of arrangement they are signing on to----and part of the problem is the BE having only 8 fb competitors and no assurance on how deep they will be in a given year in terms of the number of teams with strong win records. The other concern, will the BE deliver a team for a 2nd tier bowl bringing along a lot of traveling fans. Suppose the Gator Bowl does not always want West Virginia repeating years).

So this coming season for fb, Notre Dame will be 1/8 BE, 3/11 B10, 3/10 PAC10, 1/12 SEC, 1/3 Independent, and 2/9 MWC? :o


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 2:45 am 
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To date ND has announced series with Pitt H/A and with Rutgers H/Meadowlands.They also will have H/Meadowlands with Army and H/Baltimore with Navy.Could third BE series in 2011 be with Villanova H/Philadelphia?Is Syracuse mad about this and now has reinstated its series with BC?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 7:58 am 
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Shark, the Villanova administration has made it clear even recently that they are not interested in IA football. In fact, they have even considered dropping scolarships & moving to the Patriot League. They could change their mind if Villanova basketball lives up to Top Ten expectations this year & they become convinced that the only way to maintain the momentum for basketball is with IA football. Even then, it would take pressure from the alums alum(s) with deep pocket(s) to bakroll the investments that would be needed for the upgrade. All of this is very unlikely & is a long way away even if it ever were to come together. So, it's not even worth speculating on a Notre Dame-Villanova game 6 years from now unless someone has inside information that as part of its new softer schedule ND wants to play IAA programs. I don't think so.

Let's remember that these are not minor league franchises but academic institutions first. University presidents have a lot more on their plate than sports. This is particularly true with provate institutions who don't have to deal with interference from state legislatures, governors, etc. When Villanova looks around at schools like themselves with whom they compete for students, they don't have to look any further than Holy Cross to see how unimportant big time college sports are to maintaining a prmier academic institution. Sports are an imprtant part of the formula at some places like Notre Dame, but at most they don't really matter.


Last edited by friarfan on Fri Jul 08, 2005 8:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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