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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:58 am 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
mozilla wrote:
Just in case anyone was on the ledge because Temple cut crew......BE ADVISED.....you can back off the ledge now.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story ... m-donation" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

CREW IS SAVED!!!!


While this is good for the kids, and the city (yes, it's good to have your biggest school represented on Boathouse Row), Temple's president comes off like a total weasel. There was a forum where students got to address the board and president, and, the president, faced with the press, was like "I heard some information I didn't know before and now has changed my opinion on this."

Only, his opinion didn't. He never wavered. All of these programs were going to be cut. He just didn't want to look like a bad guy and didn't want to address the obvious question about these cuts being football-related the ONE time he put himself out there for public questioning.

It took the city and a private donation to save crew. That's ridiculous.



It appeared to me after reading the short article...that these problems existed long before Temple moved to the AAC. If the crew team was using port-o-potties and tents.....this has been a problem of long standing....and therefor can't be blamed on fb.

And since these financial problems existed....Temple had to do something about it. And that something was to disband some sports due to lack of funding. Which is not uncommon among universities these days. Rowing is a club sport in this part of the world and not school sponsored...just like lacrosse.

Now, I don't know how Temple handles their money and revenues....but, it would seem that they need some room to wiggle. Schools can't just print their own money....so, it has to come from somewhere. A school rarely has the funds to sponsor every sport under the sun. Sometimes tough decisions are required to keep the finances in proper order.

Is crew sponsored by the AAC?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 12:57 pm 
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Blaming the size of the athletic department is fine, but the timing can't be ignored. They were bigger when they were making less money, and now they must shrink even though they are said to be making more.

I don't doubt the city should have stepped in and helped them along the way. EVERY institution of education (primary, secondary, and post-secondary) in the city/county of Philadelphia has a right to say that. But, Temple still needs to answer why it really needed to do all of this at this time.

...because there will be more cuts there, and it's going to be due to football and basketball travel and intake from this new arrangement.

This is going to be UConn soon if they don't find a better arrangement.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:07 pm 
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I don't want to blame anyone for this happening. Just pointing out that it is not rare for schools to have financial issues for one reason or another. It doesn't mean that the situation can't be reversed sometime in the future.
It would seem that the priorities have changed for the admins at Temple. Are they following some master plan for the University?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:47 pm 
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mozilla wrote:
Are they following some master plan for the University?


Does "all chips on pigskin" count?

They're rumored to be building an OCS. They built/renovated a really nice on-campus training facility...sticks out like a sore thumb from the rest of campus and the surrounding area.

Quote:
It doesn't mean that the situation can't be reversed sometime in the future.


Sure, anything's possible. I think the track program could see the same deus ex machina like the rowing program did. If the regatta is one of Philly's draws, so are the Penn Relays.

But, realistically? We have to watch programs like Maryland, who cut a sizable amount of programs, will see a supposed major payday with a new conference, and only has one program that will be definitely considered for resurrection, with the others in the nebulous "to be considered." That's a department who will be able to get programs back (unsure what % of those cut return) with a conference affiliation and payload. It could be the model timeline. For Temple, unless there's someone who loves them in the ACC, I don't see it happening. Those programs come back...when Temple drops football or goes D3.

Where it concerns Temple and the AAC...even if a program leaves, it's likely one of those who help make Temple's travels easier. The replacements are those like USM, Rice, or UAB...schools that make for even worse traveling. Even if UMass gets in because UConn finds a better home, it's only that much further for the Owls to travel.

ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
Under your idealism, how would you organize the AAC's division alignment format for 2015? If it was me, it should be the following:

AAC North: UConn, Temple, Cincinnati, East Carolina, Memphis, Navy
AAC South: Central Florida, South Florida, Tulane, Tulsa, SMU, Houston


North/East: UConn, Temple, Cincy, Navy, ECU, USF (swap ECU for SMU for a Texas share)
South/West: Memphis, UCF, Tulane, Tulsa, Houston, SMU (ECU for SMU)


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:17 pm 
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Considering all the complexities, turmoil, breakups, and major transitions that occurred, I believe AAC Commissioner Aresco has done a very fine job. I am not critical of the overall work he has done. The AAC is largely composed of ambitious schools hanging right below the more established and basically stronger conferences who have accumulated the wealth flow and gained formal assurances for future growing assets and securities.
Commissioner Aresco was hired in large part due to his very significant experience with sports networking. It'll take time, but if he and his conference can be successful in steadily improving revenue coming in for the long haul, the AAC shall certainly grow in respect if there is relative stability in membership.

The power 5 (or a new mega-power 4) conferences can have their elitism as may be deserved. Where I would break with that thought, is that such should not structurally impede the progression of others reaching higher potential. Schools and conferences change over time, and a degree of flexibility with allowed opportunities need not be negated.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:00 pm 
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sec03 wrote:
Considering all the complexities, turmoil, breakups, and major transitions that occurred, I believe AAC Commissioner Aresco has done a very fine job. I am not critical of the overall work he has done. The AAC is largely composed of ambitious schools hanging right below the more established and basically stronger conferences who have accumulated the wealth flow and gained formal assurances for future growing assets and securities.


I completely agree. While it does have a "CUSA 2.0" feel, the conference has accumulated one of the best "market" conferences in the NCAA hitting - for 2015 purposes - Houston, Dallas, Tulsa, New Orleans, Tampa, Orlando, Memphis, Cincinnati, and Philadelphia with schools that pull from large regions (Connecticut pulls New England, East Carolina pulls the Carolinas but to a lesser extent obviously, and the Navy with pulls nationally.) I wish the western half of our nation had an American-esce feel to it. The Mountain West is strong, but by default since athletes who wish to stay in the region and don't go to a PAC school will go to a Mountain West school. Market-wise the Mountain West has San Diego, San Jose, Las Vegas...Reno? Fresno? Boise? Albuquerque? There's a steep drop-off compared to the American. I am in favor (barely) of the top conferences splitting into a new division for football only. However, I would want the American, Mountain West, plus a few token programs to go along (Notre Dame, BYU, Rice, etc.)


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:02 pm 
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BePcr07 wrote:
sec03 wrote:
Considering all the complexities, turmoil, breakups, and major transitions that occurred, I believe AAC Commissioner Aresco has done a very fine job. I am not critical of the overall work he has done. The AAC is largely composed of ambitious schools hanging right below the more established and basically stronger conferences who have accumulated the wealth flow and gained formal assurances for future growing assets and securities.


I completely agree. While it does have a "CUSA 2.0" feel, the conference has accumulated one of the best "market" conferences in the NCAA hitting - for 2015 purposes - Houston, Dallas, Tulsa, New Orleans, Tampa, Orlando, Memphis, Cincinnati, and Philadelphia with schools that pull from large regions (Connecticut pulls New England, East Carolina pulls the Carolinas but to a lesser extent obviously, and the Navy with pulls nationally.) I wish the western half of our nation had an American-esce feel to it. The Mountain West is strong, but by default since athletes who wish to stay in the region and don't go to a PAC school will go to a Mountain West school. Market-wise the Mountain West has San Diego, San Jose, Las Vegas...Reno? Fresno? Boise? Albuquerque? There's a steep drop-off compared to the American. I am in favor (barely) of the top conferences splitting into a new division for football only. However, I would want the American, Mountain West, plus a few token programs to go along (Notre Dame, BYU, Rice, etc.)


Having done as well as you describe.....will they look to do more soon and expand on their success?

They could easily add a non fb school to make up for Navy? They could add two more all sports schools? Do you feel either one of those has much potential? What do you feel they will attempt?

The two schools they could add, IMO, list: AIr Force, Army fb only, Charleston non fb. I'm sure that others could come up with many more candidates.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:46 pm 
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mozilla wrote:
Having done as well as you describe.....will they look to do more soon and expand on their success?

They could easily add a non fb school to make up for Navy? They could add two more all sports schools? Do you feel either one of those has much potential? What do you feel they will attempt?

The two schools they could add, IMO, list: AIr Force, Army fb only, Charleston non fb. I'm sure that others could come up with many more candidates.


They should only expand if they would gain from it. They have a pretty good thing going barring any defections to bigger pastures, so I probably wouldn't make any moves yet.

For non-football schools, I'm not sure. Maybe someone who would add to their basketball power like Wichita St. Wichita St would give a partner for Tulsa and would balance out the heavy eastern dimension of the conference. Saint Louis would be a good option, but I'm sure they're awaiting their inevitable Big East invite. Virginia Commonwealth would be an interesting option. Opens up the DC market as well as the Mid-Atlantic region connecting the northeast to East Carolina. Charleston would be okay as they would further make the East Carolina to Florida directional schools a bit more map-friendly. My choice would be Wichita St.

As for all-sports schools (including football), there isn't much option out there football-wise. I would look to CUSA staples like Southern Miss or UAB. It's unfortunate both stink at football right now. Rice is always a great choice (especially academically) but they share a market with Houston. Marshall is a good option, but they are #2 in an already tiny market. I would say probably Massachusetts. They stink as football, but are solid in basketball. The schools is pretty large and they bring in a strong market. Plus, Massachusetts really wants into a conference that isn't the MAC, CUSA, or Sun Belt.

I don't see them going for non-full members simply because the power conferences don't do that (except for Notre Dame and ACC deal, but...its Notre Dame). Granted, the power conferences don't have a football-only member. The Mountain West does in Hawaii, so this protects the idea for including Navy. I think they should sit still for now, but I would be open to adding a non-football member (Wichita St would be my preference). If, however, they lose a school or schools, then they should do what they can to get back to 12.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:11 am 
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BePcr07 wrote:
mozilla wrote:
Having done as well as you describe.....will they look to do more soon and expand on their success?

They could easily add a non fb school to make up for Navy? They could add two more all sports schools? Do you feel either one of those has much potential? What do you feel they will attempt?

The two schools they could add, IMO, list: AIr Force, Army fb only, Charleston non fb. I'm sure that others could come up with many more candidates.


They should only expand if they would gain from it. They have a pretty good thing going barring any defections to bigger pastures, so I probably wouldn't make any moves yet.

For non-football schools, I'm not sure. Maybe someone who would add to their basketball power like Wichita St. Wichita St would give a partner for Tulsa and would balance out the heavy eastern dimension of the conference. Saint Louis would be a good option, but I'm sure they're awaiting their inevitable Big East invite. Virginia Commonwealth would be an interesting option. Opens up the DC market as well as the Mid-Atlantic region connecting the northeast to East Carolina. Charleston would be okay as they would further make the East Carolina to Florida directional schools a bit more map-friendly. My choice would be Wichita St.

As for all-sports schools (including football), there isn't much option out there football-wise. I would look to CUSA staples like Southern Miss or UAB. It's unfortunate both stink at football right now. Rice is always a great choice (especially academically) but they share a market with Houston. Marshall is a good option, but they are #2 in an already tiny market. I would say probably Massachusetts. They stink as football, but are solid in basketball. The schools is pretty large and they bring in a strong market. Plus, Massachusetts really wants into a conference that isn't the MAC, CUSA, or Sun Belt.

I don't see them going for non-full members simply because the power conferences don't do that (except for Notre Dame and ACC deal, but...its Notre Dame). Granted, the power conferences don't have a football-only member. The Mountain West does in Hawaii, so this protects the idea for including Navy. I think they should sit still for now, but I would be open to adding a non-football member (Wichita St would be my preference). If, however, they lose a school or schools, then they should do what they can to get back to 12.


Excellent thoughts, thanks.

What kind of 'gain' are we looking at...to guarantee a pick up of either a fb pair or non fb individual? Where does the meter have to register with the potential school or schools? In other words....how many factors(market, city, size of school, quality of education, quality of athletics, finances) have to be, at least, good or higher?
And, where does the AAC rank when it comes to raiding other conferences? Can the AAC pull schools from the A10 or BE? Or do these conferences tend to be able to withstand potential raids from the AAC?
Where does Air Force fit into the process with the AAC? What would it take to make AF interested, in your opinion? Could the addition of Army and Wichita State be enough to get AF's interest? AF would then be paired up with a smaller style of university...such as: SMU, Tulsa, WSU, Tulane, Navy, Army, and Temple. It could have been that SDSU and BSU were too big for AF to want to pair up with?? Now that they aren't in with the AAC...maybe, AF will have second thoughts on joining??

Fb could be:

East:
UConn
Temple
Army fb
Navy fb
ECU
UCF
USF


West:
Cincy
Tulane
UofH
SMU
Tulsa
Memphis
Air Force

To make up for Navy and Army....add Wichita State and someone like Richmond, Charleston, Belmont, SLU, or similar.
What would you think of that sort of set up?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:50 pm 
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mozilla wrote:
What kind of 'gain' are we looking at...to guarantee a pick up of either a fb pair or non fb individual? Where does the meter have to register with the potential school or schools? In other words....how many factors(market, city, size of school, quality of education, quality of athletics, finances) have to be, at least, good or higher?


Factors I believe are important, in order, if I were the AAC commissioner or involved with their process: school size/finances, athletics, market/city, education. Finances are probably closely tied with school size, so I put them together. I can't think of a giant school with low finances. School size is important to me because the larger the school, the more students and alumni which increases the amount of people interested in the school, the more people interested then more people will watch on tv or come to games (home, away, or neutral). Athletic performance for the AAC would be my #2 because they must get stronger to be included in the football playoffs and get an edge getting at-larges for March Madness. Market/city was almost #2 but I put it as #3. I would say its very important but not to the point of being more important than athletics. North Texas is in Denton which is pretty much DFW, but they wouldn't be close to being considered for the AAC because their athletics aren't where they should be to help the conference. My #4 is academics. Personally, academics are very important to me, but having AAU status or being top 10 on US News doesn't get you a playoff spot.

mozilla wrote:
And, where does the AAC rank when it comes to raiding other conferences? Can the AAC pull schools from the A10 or BE? Or do these conferences tend to be able to withstand potential raids from the AAC?


I thought about this recently, here's what I would say:

The "Power Three" -PAC, SEC, B1G - will never lose schools (barring an AAU jump of Missouri/Vanderbilt to B1G)
The XII feeds into the PAC, SEC, B1G
The ACC feeds into the SEC, B1G
The AAC feeds into ACC, XII (western schools may defect to MWC)
The MWC feeds into PAC, XII (eastern schools may defect to AAC)
The MAC feeds into AAC
The CUSA feeds into AAC, MAC
The Sun Belt feeds into CUSA

When it comes to non-football schools with the A-10 and Big East: I consider the Big East is a "Power" conference. I can't imagine any schools moving from the Big East. This is definitely a down year in basketball for them, but nevertheless, I think its a final resting place. The A-10 is definitely the feeder into the Big East. As far as non-football members into the AAC, I could only see the A-10 schools who don't get invites into the Big East to consider an AAC invite. They would play against Cincinnati, Memphis, Connecticut, and SMU with up-and-coming programs like Houston and usually decent Temple. That would be a step-up. I think the next step for Wichita St would either be an AAC-invite (my preference but unlikely) or the A-10. We know the Midwest isn't afraid of the Midwest as they had Creighton and currently have Saint Louis.

mozilla wrote:
Where does Air Force fit into the process with the AAC? What would it take to make AF interested, in your opinion? Could the addition of Army and Wichita State be enough to get AF's interest? AF would then be paired up with a smaller style of university...such as: SMU, Tulsa, WSU, Tulane, Navy, Army, and Temple. It could have been that SDSU and BSU were too big for AF to want to pair up with?? Now that they aren't in with the AAC...maybe, AF will have second thoughts on joining??


Air Force would fair well with the AAC in football. I don't think any other sports because of the travel involved. They are federally funded, but its difficult being a student-athlete in college. I think a football-only invite would interest Air Force. If Air Force was football-only, an invite of Wichita St as non-football would make sense. Air Force would probably join only if Army was included but if another western school was included I think it'd be set. Unfortunately, the AAC shouldn't look further than Colorado which is already pretty far out there for that conference and there's not many schools headed towards Colorado that would be worth an invite except maybe New Mexico. If Air Force wanted to join as a full member, I think they would require another more western school to be a full member.
mozilla wrote:
Fb could be:

East:
UConn
Temple
Army fb
Navy fb
ECU
UCF
USF


West:
Cincy
Tulane
UofH
SMU
Tulsa
Memphis
Air Force

To make up for Navy and Army....add Wichita State and someone like Richmond, Charleston, Belmont, SLU, or similar.
What would you think of that sort of set up?


The only oddball here is a division containing Cincinnati and Air Force, but the cities of Cincinnati and Colorado Springs can definitely fly to each other. Not a big deal. To make up for Navy and Army, I would add 1 eastern non-football school and 1 western non-football school. Wichita St comes to mind for me immediately. I believe Saint Louis will be in the Big East soon, but they're a good choice. For an eastern school, I would look at Virginia Commonwealth. Richmond is a good choice, but there's rumors that they may end up in the Big East.

Basketball: Air Force, Wichita St, Tulsa, SMU, Houston, Tulane, Memphis, Cincinnati, Central Florida, South Florida, Cincinnati, Temple, Connecticut, Virginia Commonwealth, East Carolina (that could be a 6-8 bid conference with the underlined schools in any given year)


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:08 pm 
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The only way AFA commits to the AAC is if Navy is totally serious about seeing it through no matter what. Because I don't think Navy wants this version of Big East football, AFA isn't coming.

AFA, if it ever wants to, could probably call up the Big XII and talk about membership. The Big XII went after THEM, and AFA turned THEM down, not the other way around. You don't hear that often, and especially for a SA, they are definitely a chaser. They simply choose not to, or choose to based on very quirky logic.

AFA or Army committing to AAC football would be a very big deal and may work wonders in keeping the conference stable. I doubt it ever happens.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:34 pm 
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AFA has been respectable in the MWC. It's convenient with traditional competition. Unless the MWC radically changes, the MWC is basically a good situation for the AFA.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 5:06 pm 
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Army also mentioned that joining the AAC would hurt recruiting b/c the fear of being a cellar dweller. Being in CUSA bottom feeder hurt them. Really MAC or Indy, and select a schedule that gives you the best hope of finishing above 500

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 5:18 pm 
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No one is arguing that AF is comfortable in the MWC. The question was....what would it take for AF to want into the AAC.

AF might appreciate changing up their conference mate list? Instead of playing schools in New Mexico, their own state of Colorado, Wyoming, Nevada, Utah, California, Idaho and Hawaii......they might like to gain recruits from Ohio, Texas, Oklahoma, Louisiana, Florida, Tennessee, the Carolinas, Pennsylvania, Maryland, and Connecticut.

The group of AAC schools just might put AF in a much better recruiting environment than the MWC region? I am not familiar with where AF recruits most of their candidates. Though, I do remember reading some info from their AD or whatever they call the person at AF.....and he said that their recruiting potential was something he was giving much forethought. And he was trying to set up games in areas he thought they could recruit potential candidates(kids that can qualify to be accepted to the Academy). He also seemed to allude that AF was strapped for cash in their current situation.

So, if the AAC can find a way to make AF happier...with either more money or access to a better recruiting pool....then there might be an outside chance to put Air Force in the same conference with Navy and possibly Army.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 6:40 pm 
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mozilla wrote:
No one is arguing that AF is comfortable in the MWC. The question was....what would it take for AF to want into the AAC.

AF might appreciate changing up their conference mate list? Instead of playing schools in New Mexico, their own state of Colorado, Wyoming, Nevada, Utah, California, Idaho and Hawaii......they might like to gain recruits from Ohio, Texas, Oklahoma, Louisiana, Florida, Tennessee, the Carolinas, Pennsylvania, Maryland, and Connecticut.

The group of AAC schools just might put AF in a much better recruiting environment than the MWC region? I am not familiar with where AF recruits most of their candidates. Though, I do remember reading some info from their AD or whatever they call the person at AF.....and he said that their recruiting potential was something he was giving much forethought. And he was trying to set up games in areas he thought they could recruit potential candidates(kids that can qualify to be accepted to the Academy). He also seemed to allude that AF was strapped for cash in their current situation.

So, if the AAC can find a way to make AF happier...with either more money or access to a better recruiting pool....then there might be an outside chance to put Air Force in the same conference with Navy and possibly Army.

AFA can recruit anywhere. If they wanted a higher profile they woulda joined the B12 for recruiting. AFA isn't fully funded by govt. like Army and Navy where they can just ask and get what they need. It would take a long term commitment from Army & Navy to stay in the AAC and significantly more money than the MWC. They already have a lot of distant travel w/ Lax having to play anyone not named Denver. As a MWC fan I'd be far more worried about the B12 revisiting BYU & AFA joining them. Still I think BYU and Cincy are at the top of the B12 list. Or Cincy and UCF if they don't want to stretch so far east & west.

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