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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:11 am 
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I appreciate where you are coming from....but, we are talking about the AAC...not the Big 12.

AF doesn't want to be in a P5 conference and doesn't want to be in a conference with huge State schools. Even the MWC might not be the best fit for AF, as per their comments.

The AF AD commented that they recruit in certain areas across the US. And they look for specific types of student athletes that can qualify to get accepted into the Academy. So, they don't just recruit anywhere and they don't just accept anyone.

The Academy is and has been short on funds, to just do whatever they want. Even the AD had to hitch a ride to one of the MWC AD meetings...because it wasn't in the AF's budget to send him. One of the other schools paid for his airline ticket or picked him up on the way.

So, now I was trying to figure out what the AAC could do, if anything, to lure either of the Academies into the fold. Because I feel it could be very interesting to have all three Service Academies in one conference.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:16 am 
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mozilla wrote:
So, now I was trying to figure out what the AAC could do, if anything, to lure either of the Academies into the fold. Because I feel it could be very interesting to have all three Service Academies in one conference.


I hear you on this. I would say if Navy goes through with their football-only invite and if Army follows suit, then Air Force would be a slam dunk for football-only. If Navy goes through with their football-only, Army follows suit, and the AAC can secure a non-football school closer to Air Force (Wichita St, for example) then Air Force would probably consider full membership.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:55 pm 
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mozilla wrote:
I appreciate where you are coming from....but, we are talking about the AAC...not the Big 12.

AF doesn't want to be in a P5 conference and doesn't want to be in a conference with huge State schools. Even the MWC might not be the best fit for AF, as per their comments.

The AF AD commented that they recruit in certain areas across the US. And they look for specific types of student athletes that can qualify to get accepted into the Academy. So, they don't just recruit anywhere and they don't just accept anyone.

The Academy is and has been short on funds, to just do whatever they want. Even the AD had to hitch a ride to one of the MWC AD meetings...because it wasn't in the AF's budget to send him. One of the other schools paid for his airline ticket or picked him up on the way.

So, now I was trying to figure out what the AAC could do, if anything, to lure either of the Academies into the fold. Because I feel it could be very interesting to have all three Service Academies in one conference.


Then don't ask questions if you don't want answers that include options that have other conferences involved. I also posted the best "dream" option for the AAC to land them, fact is it's a distant 3rd behind MWC and B12. Here since you must have stopped reading after the 1st sentence. AFA isn't fully funded by govt. like Army and Navy where they can just ask and get what they need. It would take a long term commitment from Army & Navy to stay in the AAC and significantly more money than the MWC. They already have a lot of distant travel w/ Lax having to play anyone not named Denver. And I said they can recruit anywhere, not that they do, no one does. w/ your anyone comment, I never said anyone, you have to be 6-5 or smaller to be a pilot there. No college accepts anyone where the hell do you come up w this?

Why am I being so mean, b/c you post crazy sh*t that belongs in the dream thread all the time and you have the nerve to tell me sh*t b/c I mentioned the B12(who actually asked them to join and they said no) in the response.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:37 am 
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BePcr07 wrote:
mozilla wrote:
So, now I was trying to figure out what the AAC could do, if anything, to lure either of the Academies into the fold. Because I feel it could be very interesting to have all three Service Academies in one conference.


I hear you on this. I would say if Navy goes through with their football-only invite and if Army follows suit, then Air Force would be a slam dunk for football-only. If Navy goes through with their football-only, Army follows suit, and the AAC can secure a non-football school closer to Air Force (Wichita St, for example) then Air Force would probably consider full membership.


Thanks for your thoughts on the subject.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 12:31 pm 
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Let's play nice, everyone. Guys like Mozilla have come here over the past year and been very active posters here. It's been a great to get the newer posters to come and interact with those that have been active here even longer.

Many times there will be things that seem so common or accepted as fact, that we forget that they might not be known to everyone else since they aren't exactly things that are going to be known everywhere. It's important for everyone to remember that and we all need to do a better job sharing info we have. If there is a link to something from the past that will help the discussion, take a few minutes to search the forum, site or internet to find a link to the info. Because just saying something isn't always going to be enough. Sharing a link to a report on a website or even better, a mention on this site, makes it easier for posters to differentiate between fact and opinion.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 1:30 pm 
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Fresno St. Alum wrote:
It would take a long term commitment from Army & Navy to stay in the AAC and significantly more money than the MWC. They already have a lot of distant travel w/ Lax having to play anyone not named Denver.


This would be the core of the issue. Army, Navy, and the AFA are going to play each other regularly in fb and some other sports regardless. They do this OOC or with being independent. With the AFA being much removed from the eastern SAs', all three being in the same conference would pose challenges and major change.

AFA has that "all-sports" conference affiliation. They are fortunate to have the MWC that can offer that which generally suits their level of competitiveness. Navy and Army have the Patriot league for bb and such.

If Army, Navy, and the AFA were in the same league, fb or all-sports, even a modestly revised AAC may not fit the purpose particularly well. Maybe if the 3 SAs' were in a league with selected members such as Rice, Tulane, Tulsa, SMU, Miami-OH, Ohio U., UMass, SUNY-Buffalo, etc., overall compatibility could develop to be more balanced. Still, it reaches over huge geography with many of the schools not particularly good "draws" anyway. Going 900 miles to play before a 16,000 crowd is not going to pony up dandy revenue.

As it is, the SAs' due to recruiting factors, tend to run the option offense. If done having the right kind of players, it is somewhat of an equalizer against teams with greater speed and size. There has to be significant ball control against teams with strong and quick defenses, and your own offensive receivers lack in quickness, protection, and depth.

The SAs' need to have the flexibility to play each other, but also the flexibility to schedule games that further meet the needs of each. Navy going into the AAC will have less flexibility than the AFA in the MWC. Navy is going to play an AAC conference schedule, play the AFA sometime during the season, have Notre Dame scheduled, and end the regular season with the Army game. Navy may be lucky to just have one game to schedule that is not pre-determined or obligated.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 3:19 pm 
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Air Force to the American for football only is an interesting topic for discussion. I think this move would be predicated upon the WCC deciding to expand and adding Air Force and Denver as travel partners. I think this is the only scenario where the football move is viable. Up until this point the WCC has expressed zero interest in Denver by themselves but the possibility of the prestige of adding a service academy might be enticing enough.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:40 pm 
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fighting muskie wrote:
Air Force to the American for football only is an interesting topic for discussion. I think this move would be predicated upon the WCC deciding to expand and adding Air Force and Denver as travel partners. I think this is the only scenario where the football move is viable. Up until this point the WCC has expressed zero interest in Denver by themselves but the possibility of the prestige of adding a service academy might be enticing enough.


Adding Denver and Air Force as members would probably be a very smart move for the WCC. Adding the markets of Denver and Colorado Springs would be solid for them. There would be a contiguous bridge through the State of Utah with BYU, so long as they remain in the WCC. I really like that idea.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:20 pm 
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BePcr07 wrote:
fighting muskie wrote:
Air Force to the American for football only is an interesting topic for discussion. I think this move would be predicated upon the WCC deciding to expand and adding Air Force and Denver as travel partners. I think this is the only scenario where the football move is viable. Up until this point the WCC has expressed zero interest in Denver by themselves but the possibility of the prestige of adding a service academy might be enticing enough.


Adding Denver and Air Force as members would probably be a very smart move for the WCC. Adding the markets of Denver and Colorado Springs would be solid for them. There would be a contiguous bridge through the State of Utah with BYU, so long as they remain in the WCC. I really like that idea.


Except nobody in the WCC touches the state of Utah...

AFA doesn't fit in the WCC IMO. Seattle and Denver should be the picks.

If AFA want to join the AAC as a fb only member, a lesser conference like the Summit is their likely landing spot as they aren't very competitive in many sports other than fb.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:52 pm 
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tkalmus wrote:
Except nobody in the WCC touches the state of Utah...

AFA doesn't fit in the WCC IMO. Seattle and Denver should be the picks.

If AFA want to join the AAC as a fb only member, a lesser conference like the Summit is their likely landing spot as they aren't very competitive in many sports other than fb.


Denver and Seattle are good options too. I just don't see Denver getting picked up with another "mountainous" school, but I could be wrong about that. Seattle would be a good pick up for the WCC regardless. If Denver remained in the Summit, then Air Force would fit well in the Summit. I think that's probably a better option after looking at the memberships.

With all that being said, I don't see Air Force joining the AAC as much as I'd love to see a conference will 3 academies assuming Army joins at some point. Air Force wouldn't be "forced" to schedule 2 out or 3 or 4 nonconference games against Army and Navy.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 10:26 am 
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What's weird about AFA is that they want to be around the likes of CSU, Wyo, and some of the Mountain West/old WAC schools, but have apparently had conversations with other conferences. I don't know if that's AFA being proactive or reactive.

What would it take for the AAC to get AFA's services? Long-term USNA commitment and maybe some other MWC/old WAC schools as travel partners? Honestly, I really think AFA shot down the AAC because of what happened to Navy after they initially agreed. The schools the Big East approached with are not the ones Navy will now see, and one of the ones Navy worked well with, Rutgers, supposedly even lied to them.

I'm more curious how long Navy commits to the AAC. It totally looks like Navy is doing the conference a favor, and not the other way around, as it sounded when Navy first announced.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:58 am 
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Why would Air Force downgrade to the AAC from the MWC. I mean, in the past that word "downgrade" might have been debatable as the Big East had a BCS bid. But now? Is Petersen leaving Boise St. really that much of an issue...to think that Air Force would be better in an east coast/southern conference that is losing Louisville and Rutgers to other conferences and replacing them with the likes of Tulane??

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 1:21 pm 
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Years back, when the group of schools split from the 16-member WAC at the time, I remember that the Air Force Academy was THE big leader in initiating the MWC. They were demanding as to whom would be included in the new MWC's group of eight. The AFA certainly has a history in acting in what they see as their best interest. They are not passive.

The MWC has undergone some moderate membership changes, but they carry on the general persona and positioning they have had before.

The AAC has a respectable, but not necessarily a real impressive, collection of schools. The AAC is a product of radical change involving general expansion in recent years. The impression remains that they may still be vulnerable if expansion kicks up again among the power-5 types. While the MWC could be also vulnerable, the PAC12 and B12 don't seem interested in further looking there for the time being.

While it could be questioned why the AFA is so dedicated to comrades such as CSU, Wyoming, UNM, etc., tradition and convenience do have value to some.

If PART of the MWC combined with PART of the AAC, and Army with Navy got included in a new conference, then a very slight 'MAYBE' a new order (conference) could be established. But such would take major cooperation and determination, including overcoming resistance from those "left-out" and the resisting for those sought to be included, but have individual agendas. This scenario is not going to happen, unless it literally means survival and that's not the existing case.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 2:35 pm 
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The tv market for the AAC has more potential than the MWC.Nothing wrong with having schools in tampa,Orlando,Dallas,Houston,New Orleans,Memphis and Cinn and Philadelphia.
If Navy stays as a football member and Army joins as a football member there is a potential to bring in A10 schools such as Dayton and VCU for other sports.BB in AAC is quite good with UConn,Memphis,Cinn and SMU.Also MAC school such as Buffalo or North Illinois to go to 14.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:13 pm 
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sec03 wrote:
If PART of the MWC combined with PART of the AAC, and Army with Navy got included in a new conference, then a very slight 'MAYBE' a new order (conference) could be established. But such would take major cooperation and determination, including overcoming resistance from those "left-out" and the resisting for those sought to be included, but have individual agendas.


Networks and bowls with suitcases of cash. That's what it will take. And the bowls shouldn't be discounted, because the new playoff structure makes all but three games completely irrelevant. The minor bowls are going to be clawing for content and, as BYU and Navy have, some of these games want specific programs if it comes down to it. And those programs aren't sharing...unless there's reason for them to.

I don't think there's much programs left behind can do. I mean, you can win and schedule up, which used to be the way one could prove themselves, and it's still meaningless now. Get on the wrong side of a program or two, and you're wandering aimlessly in the desert.

Quinn wrote:
Why would Air Force downgrade to the AAC from the MWC. I mean, in the past that word "downgrade" might have been debatable as the Big East had a BCS bid. But now? Is Petersen leaving Boise St. really that much of an issue...to think that Air Force would be better in an east coast/southern conference that is losing Louisville and Rutgers to other conferences and replacing them with the likes of Tulane??


I don't think it was debatable when AQ was on the table, but now, yeah, it's a downgrade. It doesn't help when UConn and Cincy are trying to leave and aren't really refuting any of it. I have a feeling if someone big does leave, the TV contract is altered, and Navy is as good as gone (like an auto-eject clause similar to what Notre Dame had in the Big East).

It's weird, though, because I think the AAC has the better, bigger athletic programs, but collectively, its value is pretty much just a couple of schools. Lose them, and it's over. In the Mountain West, the programs are smaller, and it would still survive were a few of them to leave. Heck, it could lose a school or two, and I bet it could be picky about replacements (and it might even get those quirky Cougs from Provo back in).


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