American Athletic Conference Realignment & Expansion Thread

freaked4collegefb · **Joined:** Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:37 pm **Posts:** 7048

Projo article discussing "possibility" of BE moving HQ from Providence.Also,will the new broom sweep clean? Link at http://news.providencejournal.com/sport ... eview.html

carolinaknights · **Joined:** Sun Oct 09, 2005 6:41 pm **Posts:** 225

freaked4collegefb wrote:

Projo article discussing "possibility" of BE moving HQ from Providence.Also,will the new broom sweep clean? Link at http://news.providencejournal.com/sport ... eview.html

Do you really think that the BE has a move from Providence high on its list of things to do. Rumors such as the one above run rampant with newscasters to keep their news columns running. The location of the conference headquarters has nothing to do with the problems of the BE past and present. The past leadership has been the source of those problems and that includes short sightiness and blinder leadership of the the past two commissioners and the the leaders of the past conference schools that elected them. Location of the conference headquarters has nothing to do with the BE problems. I like the way the schools that have left blame the conference and past commissioners but they themselves were part and party to the decisions that were made. Everyone thinks Aresco will move the headquarters closer to his residence around Bristol or within commuting distance to NYC. Why move it because of him. He is 62 and probably will be a one term 4 year contracted commish at his his age - 2 terms at the most. The headquarters may move under the new leadership of the current and new membership of the BE conference in the distant future but at this time the new commish has far more important things to attend to than moving the BE headquarters as a sign of severing ties with the past so called "Providence lead influence" because the first three commissioners had Providence ties. All of the conference schools voted for those first three leaders just as they have now voted to go outside the conference for new ideas and insight to solve the current BE problems and negotiate the new TV contracts from a postion of strength with a leader that knows the TV business from the inside rather than the outside looking in. The first thing he is going to do is get the new TV contract in order and then work on the new bowl system and tie in's. Next he will work on incorporating the new members into the BE when they join next year and then the 14th member to come into the conference when Navy joins in 2015. Heck the BE may not need a 14th member if the rumors are true that L'Ville will be joining the B-12 around 2014 or 2015 when they expand back to a 12 team conference with a championship game again. If L'Ville or anyone else leaves the BE could stay at 12 FB members and the 8 non conference FB members to remain at 20 schools for the conference. With a lease on the building the BE has now and the other problems and things to do mention above, the BE has far more important things to concentrate on than moving the BE headquarters at this time.

tute79 · **Joined:** Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:25 pm **Posts:** 1490

Agree with your points.

That "everything is under review" comment is nothing more that a bunch of rhetoric.

If the new guy lives in Bristol, CT, it's hardly that much of a drive to Providence.

HOWEVER, if they DO sign a new long-term deal with ESPN, the Bristol thing makes sense.....
the Big East can just lease a bunch of cubicles at ESPN office / studio !
Then they can make cute little SportsCenter promos about how Boise and San Diego are EAST of Hawaii.

carolinaknights · **Joined:** Sun Oct 09, 2005 6:41 pm **Posts:** 225

tute79 wrote:

Agree with your points.

That "everything is under review" comment is nothing more that a bunch of rhetoric.

If the new guy lives in Bristol, CT, it's hardly that much of a drive to Providence.

HOWEVER, if they DO sign a new long-term deal with ESPN, the Bristol thing makes sense.....
the Big East can just lease a bunch of cubicles at ESPN office / studio !
Then they can make cute little SportsCenter promos about how Boise and San Diego are EAST of Hawaii.

I would not be surprised if the BE offices moved eventually. Also agree that Bristol and NYC might highlight the list. NYC is
very expensive and they can always have their press releases there so Bristol is the more logical place if they sign with ESPN
in any way form on the contracts. The BE has far more pressing items on the list as stated before though so this item moves
to the bottom of the list after all of the new members are all on board.

carolinaknights · **Joined:** Sun Oct 09, 2005 6:41 pm **Posts:** 225

lash wrote:

Carolinaknights,
You are probably not going to like this post as it is really about doom and gloom for Big East football.

The Big East football conference ship is currently on the bottom of the ocean and all the football schools are in a raft in the middle of the ocean with the basketball schools.

With the BCS AQ gone and lack of a new BCS host bowl tie in, the last ACC torpedo finally sank the ailing ship.

The football schools have to decide if they want to get off the dingy and onto a ship with the basketball schools and continue in the opposite direction of where the five power football leagues are heading or try to get on a new non hybrid ship and try to catch up.

The remaining football schools are quick to bring up the likes of Navy and Boise State as saviors for the Big East football conference when either school are not in a position to do so.

I love the service academies and believe they do wonder things for our country, however, major football is not one of their accomplishments. When is the last time Navy was in the top 25 rankings for football?

Boise State would have to be regular top 4 football school to ensure the current Big East conference will survive in the current BCS structure after 2014 without AQ and host bowl tie ins. The fact is Boise State is not close to being a top five or for that matter a top 10 program in comparison to the Alabama’s, Oklahoma’s, USC’s of the world. Boise State is located in a small state and will have to continue to requite California and can they have consistent success in requiting as the past at the point to ensure a top five requiting ranking every year, I think not. No other Big East football schools is anywhere close to a top 10 program in college football.

Your other point is valid and maybe a school like Rutgers can get into one of the Big 5 power conference life boats. The risk with this thought is there are only two or at long shot four seats left at the big boy table. With the new playoff format the 16 member super conference idea is basically dead. There is no way conference including the SEC are going to expand to 16 and split into two eight team divisions. The four pod system and semi conference championship games could have possibly worked in plus one, however, no way a major conference is going to have multiple conference playoff games and risk injury of players and miss out on the playoff. If there are difficulties in 12 and 14 member leagues splitting up traditional rivalries in conference such as the Big Ten and SEC, splitting up into eight team divisions just does not work because you finally have basically two conference in one. The only conference that may someday go to 16 is the ACC if Notre Dame would be willing to join and a 16 school would be needed for balance. This would be a huge risk for Rutgers to wait for this scenario to happen.

If the Big Ten were going to expand to 14 or 16, this would have happened when the conference took a year to evaluate expansions and decided on 12. The new playoff format seals this deal as well. Again only a Notre Dame wanting Big Ten membership would move this conference beyond 12 members. This would be a higher risk for Rutgers to wait on Big Ten expansions. Notre Dame has passed on Big Ten membership on multiple occasions and has other options if someday the school wants to join a league for football.

The only power conference that has a realistic change of expansion is the Big 12 may someday want to get back to 12 schools. This is more of risk to Rutgers because current Big East schools could be more desired by the Big 12 especially if Memphis every gets it act together and has a pulse for football. As a pair, both Memphis and Louisville would fit very nicely into the Big 12 foot print especially if the ACC improves to the point no school needs to look elsewhere in the future and the Big 12 wanted to continue expand its foot print to the east.

Speaking of Memphis and Big East basketball, will the Big East continue to be considered one of the six power conference in basketball. If you use revenue as a measure of power, the Big East will slip in this area as well after 2014. Pitt and Syracuse will command far more revenue compared with Villanova and St John’s. Factor in the ACC will have four corners of the old Big East core region with Syracuse and Pitt joining Boston College and Maryland and will to some extent overshadow the Big East which no longer has an exclusive core region to call its own. The new Big East 18 member basketball league is more like the old Conf USA league before the Big East raid. The old Conf USA was a good basketball league, however, very fragmented by regions. Basketball is one sport that continues to need a strong regional core to promote TV interest. Will the new Big East without Syracuse/Georgetown, Pitt/Villanova, Pitt/Syracuse, Boston College/UConn continue to have the same regional success as the old Big East in basketball?

I see the media start to refer to the five power conferences in basketball as they formally did in BCS football and the Big East will slip in this area as well for perception.

That is why I believe the only chance the Big East football schools have to get back to power conference status someday is to split, form a new league and try and build up two separate divisions taking the best of non power schools in the east with the remaining non power schools in the west and chase after the five power leagues.

Otherwise, my fear for the current Big East football schools is they will no longer be considered a power league for basketball as well. Why not take chance to see if you can catch the power leagues because the power leagues have made sure the current Big East hybrid is never going to get there.

Don't see all the gloom and doom you see. Dam the torpedoes full steam ahead. The only thing that will affect the the BE right now is a possible move for L'Ville and BYU to the B-12 and that is a couple years away. If the B-12 takes 2 ACC teams I think the ACC will stay at 12 conference members again until ND makes a move to a conference for all sports hoping they will choose the ACC, and you are more likely to see hell freeze over before that happens especially since they have access to the new 4 team championship game format and possibly future access to the Orange Bowl without the help of the BE. Couple that with their NBC contract and a BE home for their BB and Olympic sports and they are sitting fat right now with no worries about the future. The B-10 isn't expanding with out ND either, the PAC -12 has no one of value to expand with at this time, and the SEC is at 14 teams already. The BE is line to pull down a very lucrative TV contract, has access to the final 4 championship game, will probably be in the pool for the Orange Bowl and the Fiesta Bowl with Boise and the western schools, and has better bowls than the MAC, CUSA, and the MWC. The BE has coast to coast representation right now and the possibility of airing their FB, BB and Olympic Sports games in multiple time zones throughout the country all day long if they can swing it in their new TV contract. If one or two more BE teams leave the BE is still light years ahead of the MAC, CUSA, and the MWC and any team in those conferences will be very much willing to step up and take the place of the BE school /schools that leave. The only real damage at this point to the BB schools is if ND leaves and breaks the equalizing power vote they have right now. However they aren't going any where because of the year round exposure that the all sports teams give to the conference. If they do they are only relevant during March Madness and become the A-10 on steroids. Also they would wait for the FB schools to leave first dropping 10 million dollars a pop for $140 million dollar profit plus all of the BB credits that would be left behind. This argument holds the 140 million reasons plus BB credits as to why the FB schools will not leave as a group either to strike out on their own. The BE is a highly profitable entity between the haves (the ACC, B-12, B-10, SEC, and PAC-12) and the have not's (the MAC, MWC, CUSA, and soon to be defunct WAC) right now. They have the capability to still be the sixth power conference and any one in the have not column will always be ready to step into the BE if they need a replacement for any who would leave for one of the power 5 all sports conferences as the have been anointed by themselves and the news media who support them.

sec03 · **Joined:** Sat May 20, 2006 2:09 pm **Posts:** 1231

Certainly the BE & the sports media shall be defining the BE as the intermediary between the "haves" (SEC. B1G, B12, PAC 12 & ACC) and the "have nots" (MWC, CUSA, SBC, MAC, and remnants of the WAC). Independent Notre Dame is a top with the "haves", and BYU could also be viewed as a "have" if success is sustained. Army, by perception, may be just short of being in the intermediary category. When Idaho becomes fb independent, they'll still be a solid "have not".
Maybe the elimination of the BCS and conference changes, thrusts the BE now as an intermediary, only defined in a tangible way by the comparing of the TV contracts and bowl tie-ins the BE shall muster.

The intermediary role the BE is rendered, which is largely by perception, stems from a carry-over of being in a BCS conference. Much diminished is the BE's power to be one of the lock-out agents per the have-nots. Maintaining a stance largely based on perception will have its vulnerable and challenging moments.

The cross-country hybrid and mixture are to give an impression of viability, clinging to the shirt-tails of the "haves". Some see it for what is; others call it innovative and an "out-of-the-box" arrangement with wonderful possibilities to come. Either way, it is derived from a mess, they can't get away from it, or too many don't want to because it is a better gravy train than the alternatives available. Allegiance by an "all sports" member is only as deep as hoping for a wishful call from one of the top 5 conferences. And the ring shall only be given to just one or two among them if future expansion falls a certain way. For any BE all-sports member wanting and capable of having something better, it is a difficult spot to dwell.

ctx48c · **Joined:** Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:26 pm **Posts:** 293

With a real tv contract and backing from a major broadcaster,the espn spin will certainly be quashed.The BE is a major conference,certainly as good as the acc.

fighting muskie · **Joined:** Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:47 am **Posts:** 380

I'm inclined to think that the Big East has simply entered a new phase of its slow decline. Despite being at least an equal to the ACC on the field in the eyes of the media and broadcasting executives the Big East does not have the brand recognition that it had in its former glory years. The Big East is an assortment of big market schools that do not hold their markets due to the presence of more recognizable programs completing side by side against them--BC, Syracuse, and Pitt overshadow the northeastern schools for the most part: Ohio State owns Cincinnati's market, DePaul and Marquette must vie for loyalties against their Big Ten counterparts; Louisville and Memphis football will always be trumped by the SEC; and the Florida and Texas schools will never be equal in popularity to the state flagships in the respective states. Even with an NBC contract, the Big East no longer has a region that lives for Big East sports and this will be its ultimate downfall. It will linger on as buffer between the media's chosen 5 and the former non-AQs but will never rise above its "6th best status" because whenever a Big East program shows promise, like Louisville, someone will come and snatch them away. Young recruits wont remember the golden years of the Big East and the quality of Big East play will slowly diminish making a Big East Renaissance unlikely.

Ironically, I think the league's best chance at avoiding a precipitous fall is to part ways and divide the current basketball credits among the two factions. An urban Catholic basketball league spanning the Northeast and Midwest headlined by Notre Dame, Xavier, Georgetown, and Villanova certainly demands some television eyeballs, particularly with those schools playing double roundrobin. For the football side, I think they can successfully market themselves as the Metro Conference reborn and without the need to ask Notre Dame, Providence, and DePaul for permission to make moves in the best interest of the current schools.

ctx48c · **Joined:** Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:26 pm **Posts:** 293

NBC will likely be the force behind the BE.This will counter espn spin.
The hiring of a big time commisioner are both symbols of significant strengthening of the BE.
While the BE is not an equal of football strength of the SEC it is an equal of the ACC.
Furthermore,its television potential,lots of major NFL cities plays with best.
Also its bb is still amongst the best.
The problems of Miami and UNC will help to strengthen the BE.

sec03 · **Joined:** Sat May 20, 2006 2:09 pm **Posts:** 1231

There's the revenue/TV contract conspiracy theories floating awhile back, around the time the B1G was contemplating expansion. The idea goes if one of the BCS-type conferences is eliminated or greatly diminished, then the remaining 4 or 5 top conferences will have more TV revenue among themselves, and completely control the future playoffs and all the major bowls.
Obviously, the BE would be a target. Then, the Big 12 started to get defections, with others (UT, OU, etc.) exploring lucrative deals elsewhere.

The ACC could have gone to 16, taking Rutgers and UCONN, thus claiming they do own the metro northeast. They stopped short of doing so, perhaps for other reasons. There were claims the B1G would have stopped such, or would threaten the ACC with more expansion themselves. The re-solidified B12 added WVU to their camp.

The point is, the ACC, B1G, and B12 have not moved on the Big East to permanently remove it as a financial player. "Them gone, more for us mentality", with greater footprints and control in the northeast corridor did not reach completion.

Conferences look at it from "more mouths to feed" and which schools are worth it. But taking the BE out from being a intermediary/buffer conference to clearly being a "have not" searching for more CUSA & MWC types, would the power conferences be in a position to garner ever greater revenue, and absorbing UCONN, Rutgers, and L'ville would make it worth it to own their domain markets? When the B1G (B10) ran their numbers, they may not have known the SEC and the ACC would be going to 14 each, and the Big 12 would have more defections beyond Nebraska and Colorado leaving.

The B1G, ACC, and to some extent the B12, indicate they are awaiting what Notre Dame may ultimately do. Yet, they were agents in creating play-off circumstances favorable for Notre Dame; and by letting the Big East be not so diminished in it's hybrid design, the lucrative status-quo option for Notre Dame is retained. None of these power conferences want to be the one that forces Notre Dame's hand by further extracting from the Big East, and then see a top conference competitor end up with Notre Dame.

If the conspiracy theory existed, the 5 major conferences did not work together very well on it. They got the playoff, but not all of them were totally happy with the 4-team format.

westwolf · **Posted:** Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:59 pm

After the latest departures, the CUSA-bloated BE will be a far cry from the Big 5 and closer to the MWC or Sunbelt in FB prowess.

ctx48c · **Joined:** Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:26 pm **Posts:** 293

Yes the b12 took mwc tcu BE wvu to replace the loss of Nebraska,Colorado,Missouri and Texas A&M.They have such great programs as Iowa St,KanSas St and kansas and baylor.If texas and oklahoma had joined the PAC 12 what would the b12 be?

There are 3 great conferences Pac 12 ,B10 and the SEC.

Then there is the acc with bc,duke,wake forest,virginia and maryland,syracuse and pitt are these programs superior to BE?
Hardly

Then there are tv markets and espn spin.

Once there is a real tv contract and backing from NBC the perception problems will be handled.

The Bishin Cutter · **Joined:** Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:41 am **Posts:** 540

Yes, NBC overpaying for commuter college sports will help the Big East. Ok.

If you believe that Syracuse, Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Boston College, Virginia Tech, and Miami were the cancer of the Big East body rather than Georgetown, Providence, Notre Dame, and basketball school politics, feel free to keep indulging in other fantasies.

Interesting that at a Villanova town-hall meeting, the AD said they were getting a fourteenth member by the end of the year, and it was likely a western school. Now, Aresco is saying it's just likely and the timetable just got extended to include another summer.

ctx48c · **Joined:** Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:26 pm **Posts:** 293

I never mentioned wvu,miami or va tech.
bc,syracues and pitt match real well with duke,wake forest,uva and umd.

Lets speak about miami and its trouble with ncaa regulations on a continuing basis.

Tv markets are built on viewership and market size not where the students live at home or campus.

sec03 · **Joined:** Sat May 20, 2006 2:09 pm **Posts:** 1231

The Bishin Cutter wrote:

Interesting that at a Villanova town-hall meeting, the AD said they were getting a fourteenth member by the end of the year, and it was likely a western school. Now, Aresco is saying it's just likely and the timetable just got extended to include another summer.

Cutter, could it be that western school, AFA or BYU or whomever, has said no or is on the fence about it? Also, Louisville seems determined to head for the B12 and open about it. The B12 may have given L'ville some expectation that eventually they can head there.

I view sentiments in the BE are mixed.

Providence, Georgetown, St. Johns, DePaul, Marquette, Villanova, SHU -- are probably still all happy with the BE hybrid, given the changes.

Notre Dame -- hope the BE does not become any weaker, but continues to serve their unique purpose.

Temple -- glad to be back there; this time with all sports. Figure they can't find anything better.

Memphis, USF (already in BE), UCF, SMU, and Houston -- The B12 doesn't want any of them at least for now; other top conferences certainly don't. And, they got in the BE for all sports. A couple or so are dang lucky to be even picked for the BE, such as it is. They see escaping CUSA places them at a higher level. What if they had stayed and helped re-shape CUSA to look equal or better than what they departed to?

Louisville -- openly wants out, preferably for the B12; even lesser/no chance with another major conference.

Cincy -- if Louisville heads for the B12, hopes they have a coattail to cling to -- otherwise accepting of the BE.

Rutgers -- keeps waiting for a B1G or ACC call; maybe would even take a call from the B12; while they keep waiting, acting as if the BE is looking fine.

UCONN -- hoping to be #15 or #16 with the ACC. Maybe not any serious hopes with the B1G. Also wants to look happy with the BE.

Boise State -- they made the decision; tried to save face by not backing out; hopes it gives them big bowl games, high rankings, more revenue, and they dominate the BE while they are there.

SDSU -- The PAC12 ain't calling; bought Marinatto's plan hook, line, & sinker.

Navy beginning in 2014 -- perhaps hoping AFA bites out west & gets reeled in by the BE; recent fb success had them thinking bigger; Uhhh, that former GA Southern coach, then Navy, has been running GA Tech of late. It began to show last season.

American Athletic Conference Realignment & Expansion Thread

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