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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:07 pm 
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FranktheTank blog article discussing Big 12 expansion situation at http://frankthetank.wordpress.com


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:01 pm 
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http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootbal ... er-leagues

Interesting...B12, ACC, P12


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:17 pm 
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Mconner1201 wrote:
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/eye-on-college-football/21614091/report-big-12-looking-to-partner-up-with-acc-two-other-leagues

Interesting...B12, ACC, P12


It is. Exploring alliances and partnerships may be the new alternative to expansion when great additions are so limited.

Since the NCAA can specify the minimum number of conference members reqired to stage a CCG, I'd like to see a maximum number imposed for conference membership. Sixteen. Yes, sixteen! A conference may have less than that, but no more. A waiver could be allowed in very unique situations for an orphan school or situation.
This would not prevent new conferences from being organized or shifts among them. There's too much insecurity going on, and certain conferences are troubled with making certain planned investments now, only to lose them sometime later. Predatory mentality and greed would have operational limits.

Such a policy would allow the SEC and B1G to add two each if they sought it. But it would also define how far they could possibly go with expansion. The PAC12 and the B12 would know their opportunities and who would be really available if they seek to further expand. The ACC would know the limits of their future vulnerability and structure their own securities with better confidence. Such could apply to all conferences down the line, of which one could see some splitting and combining---which could be a good thing for them. Such could ultimately even force the hand of ND if revised playoff criteria follows.

How this may impact the direction of G0Rs', excessive exit fees, lawsuits, etc., would be unclear. But there could be a standard agreement about this stuff as well.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:58 am 
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It's the last act of a desperate man. They can't extract programs from the ACC, most of their own would gladly take an invitation from the PAC, B1G, or SEC (while the others know this is as good as it gets), and it clearly shows a self-awareness of exposure limitations. It would be funny that they wouldn't naturally go with the B1G, but the ACC, SEC, and PAC make the most sense: it's where the people are.

If it's believed these "unions" will help the conference stay at ten and ease the CCG requirements, they haven't the foggiest. I'll say it until I'm blue in the face: there's a lot they can do with eleven that may not require a twelfth. With eleven, it may be easier to get that elusive CCG: you eliminate round-robin, you want a tie-breaker if a head-to-head isn't conclusive, and maybe you petition the NCAA for a waiver in the interim saying that #12 is being sought. Get BYU, add the revenue increase the conference will surely get, maybe attract a more profitable and desirable twelfth member, and fight the NCAA on that technical front.

Quote:
Even though TCU never played a game in the Big East, they were contractually obligated to pay an exit fee (I think it was $5 milliion, but they may have negotiated something less).
Jumping to the Big XII was still a no-brainer for TCU, since they could recover $5 million in no time flat, do to the much higher TV money pay-out in Big XII (vs. Big East).

I assume that when Louisville accepted an invitation to join the ACC, they signed on to this $50 million exit fee (that Maryland is now dealing with....).
ACC teams rake in roughly $20 million / year, so the TV money differential isn't THAT great, and it would take some time for Louisville to earn enough money to offset a $50 million
payment to the ACC. Knowing that Louisville is now somewhat locked in by the ACC exit fee commitment,
I think if the Big XII really wanted Louisville, they should have jumped in when the ACC made it know they were going to invite either UConn or Louisville.


Only active members were privy to these votes, meaning "the quartet" were not able to participate, although I suspect they were well aware of the conditions in play. However, if what UMD claims is true concerning the activation date of these rules, UL may only legally be on the hook for the $2m membership buy-in. The same *may* be said for the other three, too, as they aren't full members and had no voice in this matter.

If the UMD thing settles itself by late spring, we may see some activity with those four programs, should the feelings change. But, again, this assumes, for UL at least, that someone would rather be in the B12 than ACC. The ones I would be more concerned with is Notre Dame and Pitt for B1G purposes.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:25 pm 
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DMN blog article discussing this week's Big 12 meetings and Big 12 realignment situation at http://collegesportsblog.dallasnews.com ... ility.html


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:07 pm 
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Mconner1201 wrote:
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/eye-on-college-football/21614091/report-big-12-looking-to-partner-up-with-acc-two-other-leagues

Interesting...B12, ACC, P12

An Alliance by the ACC, Big 12 and Pac 12 could become a major cue if they could pull it off.

It would be an interesting number of 36 total schools (14 ACC, 10 Big 12, 12 Pac 12) to combine all the football schools into four 9 team divisions. The divisions would be virtual by scheduling and not necessarily have to be physical such as complete merger of all three leagues.

West: USC, UCLA, Stanford, California, Utah, Oregon, Oregon, Washington, Washington State

South: Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor

North: Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, Louisville, WVU, Virginia Tech, Pitt, Syracuse, Boston College

East: North Carolina, Duke, NC State, Wake Forest, Virginia, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Florida State, Miami Fl

What would each of three leagues gain by this alliance.

All three would have a most or almost guarantee of getting two of the four playoff spots each year (i.e. East Division Champion facing the West Division Champion and the North Division facing the South Division with both winners advancing to two of the four playoff spots.

TV benefits would be enormous for all three leagues as all four divisions span the entire USA creating two of the four team playoff members. Would be so fun to watch this scenario play out as a college football fan.

ACC could most likely get all 14 schools sign GOR which along with the Big 12 and Pac 12 would virtually stop the Big Ten and SEC in their tracks with future expansion of those conference networks.

Big 12 would get to remain with 10 permanent members and have a championship game as well and keep the Texas and Oklahoma schools in the same virtual divisions.

Pac 12 would get to push its network all the way east without expanding with a single school penetrating a lot of markets the conference may not otherwise get into as easily.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:54 pm 
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lash wrote:
Mconner1201 wrote:
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/eye-on-college-football/21614091/report-big-12-looking-to-partner-up-with-acc-two-other-leagues

Interesting...B12, ACC, P12

An Alliance by the ACC, Big 12 and Pac 12 could become a major cue if they could pull it off.

It would be an interesting number of 36 total schools (14 ACC, 10 Big 12, 12 Pac 12) to combine all the football schools into four 9 team divisions. The divisions would be virtual by scheduling and not necessarily have to be physical such as complete merger of all three leagues.

West: USC, UCLA, Stanford, California, Utah, Oregon, Oregon, Washington, Washington State

South: Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor

North: Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, Louisville, WVU, Virginia Tech, Pitt, Syracuse, Boston College

East: North Carolina, Duke, NC State, Wake Forest, Virginia, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Florida State, Miami Fl



What would each of three leagues gain by this alliance.

All three would have a most or almost guarantee of getting two of the four playoff spots each year (i.e. East Division Champion facing the West Division Champion and the North Division facing the South Division with both winners advancing to two of the four playoff spots.

TV benefits would be enormous for all three leagues as all four divisions span the entire USA creating two of the four team playoff members. Would be so fun to watch this scenario play out as a college football fan.

ACC could most likely get all 14 schools sign GOR which along with the Big 12 and Pac 12 would virtually stop the Big Ten and SEC in their tracks with future expansion of those conference networks.

Big 12 would get to remain with 10 permanent members and have a championship game as well and keep the Texas and Oklahoma schools in the same virtual divisions.

Pac 12 would get to push its network all the way east without expanding with a single school penetrating a lot of markets the conference may not otherwise get into as easily.


Compliments Lash. I like the way you are thinking.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:20 pm 
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lash wrote:
Mconner1201 wrote:
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/eye-on-college-football/21614091/report-big-12-looking-to-partner-up-with-acc-two-other-leagues

Interesting...B12, ACC, P12

An Alliance by the ACC, Big 12 and Pac 12 could become a major cue if they could pull it off.

It would be an interesting number of 36 total schools (14 ACC, 10 Big 12, 12 Pac 12) to combine all the football schools into four 9 team divisions. The divisions would be virtual by scheduling and not necessarily have to be physical such as complete merger of all three leagues.

West: USC, UCLA, Stanford, California, Utah, Oregon, Oregon, Washington, Washington State

South: Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor

North: Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, Louisville, WVU, Virginia Tech, Pitt, Syracuse, Boston College

East: North Carolina, Duke, NC State, Wake Forest, Virginia, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Florida State, Miami Fl

What would each of three leagues gain by this alliance.

All three would have a most or almost guarantee of getting two of the four playoff spots each year (i.e. East Division Champion facing the West Division Champion and the North Division facing the South Division with both winners advancing to two of the four playoff spots.

TV benefits would be enormous for all three leagues as all four divisions span the entire USA creating two of the four team playoff members. Would be so fun to watch this scenario play out as a college football fan.

ACC could most likely get all 14 schools sign GOR which along with the Big 12 and Pac 12 would virtually stop the Big Ten and SEC in their tracks with future expansion of those conference networks.

Big 12 would get to remain with 10 permanent members and have a championship game as well and keep the Texas and Oklahoma schools in the same virtual divisions.

Pac 12 would get to push its network all the way east without expanding with a single school penetrating a lot of markets the conference may not otherwise get into as easily.


I too like the thinking but now the 4 team playoff really becomes a 6 team playoff in which the B1G and SEC get byes while the 4 champions you describe have to play in.

For the record, I'd prefer it at 40 (changes in bold):

West: USC, UCLA, Stanford, California, Oregon, Oregon, Washington, Washington State, Arizona, Arizona State

South: Colorado, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor, Kansas, Kansas State, Utah

North: Iowa State, Louisville, WVU, Pitt, Syracuse, Boston College, Notre Dame, Cincinnati, UConn, Temple (Either ACC adds 3 for 18 or gives up Louisville to Big 12 and they take Cincy)

East: North Carolina, Duke, NC State, Wake Forest, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Florida State, Miami Fl, Virginia, Virginia Tech

Can't leave out ND or the B1G could get them. This does feel like the first logical step towards getting CFB into 8 regional divisions and an 8 team playoff (be it 72 or 80 schools). These 40 plus the SEC and B1G give you 68 total schools. Would only need 4-12 more...

That feels like the right move for football because they can't have large playoffs like other sports. Other sports it's ok to have many conferences because you just have a 32 or 64 school playoff at the end to crown a champion. Fun thought, but probably not happening any time soon.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:39 pm 
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SJSUFan2010 wrote:
lash wrote:
Mconner1201 wrote:
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/eye-on-college-football/21614091/report-big-12-looking-to-partner-up-with-acc-two-other-leagues

Interesting...B12, ACC, P12

An Alliance by the ACC, Big 12 and Pac 12 could become a major cue if they could pull it off.

It would be an interesting number of 36 total schools (14 ACC, 10 Big 12, 12 Pac 12) to combine all the football schools into four 9 team divisions. The divisions would be virtual by scheduling and not necessarily have to be physical such as complete merger of all three leagues.

West: USC, UCLA, Stanford, California, Utah, Oregon, Oregon, Washington, Washington State

South: Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor

North: Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, Louisville, WVU, Virginia Tech, Pitt, Syracuse, Boston College

East: North Carolina, Duke, NC State, Wake Forest, Virginia, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Florida State, Miami Fl

What would each of three leagues gain by this alliance.

All three would have a most or almost guarantee of getting two of the four playoff spots each year (i.e. East Division Champion facing the West Division Champion and the North Division facing the South Division with both winners advancing to two of the four playoff spots.

TV benefits would be enormous for all three leagues as all four divisions span the entire USA creating two of the four team playoff members. Would be so fun to watch this scenario play out as a college football fan.

ACC could most likely get all 14 schools sign GOR which along with the Big 12 and Pac 12 would virtually stop the Big Ten and SEC in their tracks with future expansion of those conference networks.

Big 12 would get to remain with 10 permanent members and have a championship game as well and keep the Texas and Oklahoma schools in the same virtual divisions.

Pac 12 would get to push its network all the way east without expanding with a single school penetrating a lot of markets the conference may not otherwise get into as easily.


I too like the thinking but now the 4 team playoff really becomes a 6 team playoff in which the B1G and SEC get byes while the 4 champions you describe have to play in.

For the record, I'd prefer it at 40 (changes in bold):

West: USC, UCLA, Stanford, California, Oregon, Oregon, Washington, Washington State, Arizona, Arizona State

South: Colorado, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor, Kansas, Kansas State, Utah

North: Iowa State, Louisville, WVU, Pitt, Syracuse, Boston College, Notre Dame, Cincinnati, UConn, Temple (Either ACC adds 3 for 18 or gives up Louisville to Big 12 and they take Cincy)

East: North Carolina, Duke, NC State, Wake Forest, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Florida State, Miami Fl, Virginia, Virginia Tech

Can't leave out ND or the B1G could get them. This does feel like the first logical step towards getting CFB into 8 regional divisions and an 8 team playoff (be it 72 or 80 schools). These 40 plus the SEC and B1G give you 68 total schools. Would only need 4-12 more...

That feels like the right move for football because they can't have large playoffs like other sports. Other sports it's ok to have many conferences because you just have a 32 or 64 school playoff at the end to crown a champion. Fun thought, but probably not happening any time soon.

I disagree this proposal is a six team playoff because the Big Ten is not guaranteed a spot in one of the four playoff spots. I succeed for now to provide a spot for the SEC because the league has placed and won the last several BCS championship games.

The Big Ten has to play its championship game and less say a high ranked Ohio State losses to a 2 loss Nebraska in the Big Ten championship game, the fourth spot could go to a runner up such as Texas, Oregon, Florida State, etc.

I was not forgetting Notre Dame because Notre Dame can just as easily take the Big Ten spot which would have occurred this year had the four team playoff been in place.

So an alliance of the ACC, Big 12, or Pac 12 by no means succeed the other two spots to the Big Ten or for that matter the SEC.

And less not forget an undefeated Boise State in the reconfigured MWC or BYU going undefeated could take a spot and push out the Big Ten from one of the four team playoff spots.

The Big Ten has got huge attendance and good TV ratings, the problem with Big Ten is football performance is not much better compared to the ACC over the last few years.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:26 pm 
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While alliance agreements may be plausible, if not needed, for expansion protection, TV enhancements. and perhaps play-off placements, the record on certain conferences actually doing it, have not been encouraging. It's a lot to try to manage; and finding a consensus among diverse and multiple agendas of the involved universities, with some hidden, complicates the common ground.
The B1G-P12 plan failed. Some may perceive it was in part about luring ND; but ND was the issue later cited by USC because the Trojans feared they may have been forced to compromise their long-term scheduling of ND.
The C-USA/MWC merger plan crashed before it was off the drawing board.
Maybe conferences, now, do need power alliances to ward-off hostile extractions. Those lawsuits are getting very expensive. If the motive is high because a great and enhanced TV deal is included, that could be the key for achievement. We know though, the configuration will become more at the mercy of the TV power sources. There's always something that renders a downside.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:38 pm 
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CBS Sports blog article discussing expansion and other talk at Big 12 meetings at http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootbal ... -12-agenda


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:40 am 
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lash wrote:
I disagree this proposal is a six team playoff because the Big Ten is not guaranteed a spot in one of the four playoff spots. I succeed for now to provide a spot for the SEC because the league has placed and won the last several BCS championship games.

The Big Ten has to play its championship game and less say a high ranked Ohio State losses to a 2 loss Nebraska in the Big Ten championship game, the fourth spot could go to a runner up such as Texas, Oregon, Florida State, etc.

I was not forgetting Notre Dame because Notre Dame can just as easily take the Big Ten spot which would have occurred this year had the four team playoff been in place.

So an alliance of the ACC, Big 12, or Pac 12 by no means succeed the other two spots to the Big Ten or for that matter the SEC.

And less not forget an undefeated Boise State in the reconfigured MWC or BYU going undefeated could take a spot and push out the Big Ten from one of the four team playoff spots.

The Big Ten has got huge attendance and good TV ratings, the problem with Big Ten is football performance is not much better compared to the ACC over the last few years.


That same logic could be used to argue that this major conference could get no bids in the playoffs (unlikely). Your champions are (as of the rankings prior to the conference championship games) #8 Stanford, #6 Kansas State, #11 Oklahoma, and #13 Florida State while the top 5 are ND, Bama, Georgia, Florida, and Oregon. If the East beat the West and South beat the North then no champ is going to the playoffs. Even if none of the lower seeds upset the higher seed it's very likely ND, Bama, and Florida stay 1-2-3 and only one school from the mega conference gets in, and worst yet, it would be a school that didn't win its division. And if we ignore Ohio State's bowl ban (which we should since that is not something that would happen on a normal basis) it's extremely likely they'd win the B1G and finish at least 3rd, meaning it would have been ND v Florida and Bama v Ohio State.

Though, that says a heck of a lot more about the biases of the system than it does about this idea. Florida was crushed by Louisville who won the supposedly weak Big East. Stanford and Oregon won BCS games out of an underrated Pac 12. I'd prefer the SEC, B1G and two champs from your mega conference get autobids. The highest rated non AQ can take the place of the lowest champ whenever they're ranked high enough.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:20 am 
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freaked4collegefb wrote:
CBS Sports blog article discussing expansion and other talk at Big 12 meetings at http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootbal ... -12-agenda


If the ACC had any right mind, they'd unanimously decline the offer. The Big XII subversively tried to pick off its members. Out of spite, the ACC should have gone in and taken WVU instead of UL to "sew in" the Eastern gap left due to UMD's departure.

Were this a game of no-limit holdem, I'd go all-in against the Big XII. They don't have the cards. Unfortunately, the ACC doesn't know how to play the game.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:53 am 
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Article out of Ft Worth with comments from Big 12 Commish regarding conference realignment after yesterday's first day of league meetings at http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/01/28 ... -with.html


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:22 pm 
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I'm thinking maybe the Big XII could be talking to the BE, MWC, and ACC.

My thought is that the Big XII needs to steal 2 schools from the ACC, but does not seek to destroy the ACC.

The Big XII would eiher want Louisville and Pitt to set up:
North:
Pitt*
WVU
Louiville*
ISU
KU
KSU

South:
OU
SOU
TT
UT
TCU
Baylor

OR they might want to swap WVU and Louisville and pull in 2 southern ACC schools to give:
North:
Louisville (closer than WVU)
ISU
KU
KSU
OU
OSU

South:
TT
UT
TCU
Baylor
FSU * ?
Clemson * ?

Either would take the ACC down to 12, and they could realign N-S.

I'm not sure the Big XII isn't almost thinking a merger of sorts / realignment with the ACC.
Doing so would get the Big XII the two additional teams it needs, while this arrangement could offer the ACC a truce with the Big XII,
and perhaps they could jointly re-open their TV contract and get the ACC the financial stability that is aparently missing now, and has some members rather edgy.


All the non-BCS Bowls are coming up for renewal. The WAC is gone, there will be 10 FBS conferences going forward.

BE will have geographic overlap with ACC, along wiht Houston / SMU / Tulsa / Memphis / Tulane which are sort of minor-league rivals for the Big XII.
MWC will have some of the best FBS teams in the mountain time zone, adjacent (could be rivals) to Big XII.
These two conferences are 6A and 6B and look to be restructuring themselves for relative stability (if the ACC isn't raided and doesn't need to re-stock from Big East).

































s


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