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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:07 pm 
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Agree: no OU or UT no P status
Should have expanded


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:57 pm 
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I guess it comes down to what Texas and OU want to do. Do they want to stay in the Big 12 and remain the big dogs in their conference, or do they want to go somewhere else and make more money?
If they do decide to stay, what will their TV contract look like when this one expires? It can't be anywhere near what the Big 10 or SEC get. They just don't have the population of those conferences.

On another note, why doesn't NBC seem to be interested in college football? Do they not have the capital to invest in college football? What do they show during football season, golf, ice skating, rodeo? I would think NBC would get more viewers if they had college football. They could have the Notre Dame game at noon, followed by two Big 12 games, especially if the Big 12 were to expand.

I would have expanded with 4 teams and formed a ring around the SEC. I would have gotten Memphis, Cincy, UCF, and USF. I would have gone to a 10 game conference schedule with 2 permanent crossover games.
East- WVU, Cincy, Memphis, ISU, OU, UCF, and USF
West- UT, TTU, KSU, OSU, Baylor, KU, and TCU

Strength of schedule would be very strong and you would be playing a lot of games in the SEC's backyard which could potentially help close the talent gap between the two conferences. If the SEC is going to take some of the best players out of Texas (which is the major talent pool of the Big 12), then the Big 12 needs to start getting players out of the SEC footprint.

Somewhere down the road I would want to add BYU and Colorado State to the west and move either Baylor or TCU to east.

But that is what I would do if I ran the Big 12.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:30 am 
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Article out of Fort Worth (previously posted in another thread)discussing the LHN at http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/spt ... 55982.html


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:56 am 
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Very insightful article. The LHN was all about UT looking out for themselves (can you blame them, when some doofus at ESPN is throwing that kind of money at them ?) and prevented the Big XII from adopting the model of the Big Ten.

Author indicates that the 4 schools that left - Nebraska, Missouri, A&M, and Colorado are not so relevant (currently) in their new conferences. True - but they didn't dominate the Big XII, either. Nebraska, Missouri, and A&M are reaping financial windfall in Big Ten, SEC, SEC. Colorado not so much in PAC-12.

Big XII's failure to expand last year, was a result of the Big Dogs (UT and OU) deciding to maximize their revenue through end of GoR (2024), by not diluting money form ESPN / Fox by having to share any of it. Those 2 schools will find willing suitors 7 years from now. The other schools will be scrambling, and may end up in a situation like AAC / MWC when it all shakes out.

LHN is an albatross for ESPN and the Big XII (except for UT). Whomever at ESPN was in charge of envisioning the future of FBS college football happened to be asleep at the wheel when the LHN deal was consummated. Very little content.... What were they thinking ?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:01 pm 
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Dennis Dodd article(previously posted in another thread)with comments from Big 12 Commish and others regarding how increased future media rights bidding by internet companies "could" impact on future conference realignment at https://www.cbssports.com/college-footb ... alignment/


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:32 pm 
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Those directional Florida schools are looking pretty good.

11-0.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:39 am 
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At some point, UCF and USF play each other (somebody will lose that one).

Orlando and Tampa a re very fertile recruiting grounds.

After the P5 grabs he cream of the crop, an astute coach with lots of ties to local high schools can piece together a quality team with players that the P5 schools over-looked.

So - early in the season, they are playing OOC opponents and some other AAC schools.
Let's see how they look at the end of the year.

And if you are suggesting that the Big 12 expand with UCF / USF, they Big 12 already made their decision that they are unwilling to share their current revenue.
Reading between the lines, the GoR keeps them locked into the status quo, and then the schools will determine their long-term future as that GoR approaches expiration.
Then again, that is several years away, and a lot can happen in the meantime. TV money is driving he bus, and with internet streaming, network deals might change radically.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:56 pm 
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freaked4collegefb wrote:
Dennis Dodd article(previously posted in another thread)with comments from Big 12 Commish and others regarding how increased future media rights bidding by internet companies "could" impact on future conference realignment at https://www.cbssports.com/college-footb ... alignment/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

After the Big 12 officials finished up their meetings in Phoenix last year with the TV consultancy firms, the plans were to always create a Big 12 digital network sometime in the future. To me this waiting to create the network provides time to acquire a carrier such as Amazon and most importantly allow the tier 3 rights that are expensive at Oklahoma, Kansas, West Virginia, and most of the other Big 12 schools to expire. The Big 12 probably knee jerked a bit last year and tried to probe the usage of pro rata expansion money to most likely fund the buy out of the tier 3 rights and create a network in a faster time frame.

I believe the Big 12 has always wanted to expand back to a minimum of 12 schools when the time is right and affordability is provided with TV inventory demands and not pro rata contract money.

The Big 12 has always held its own in Tier 1 and tier 2 payouts from the national networks and the fear or disadvantage for the Big 12 schools are in Tier 3 money which creates the big funding gaps with the Big Ten and the SEC.

Assuming a carrier can be found such as Amazon which is already providing limited MWC games in digital, the Big 12 conference will be in much better position to launch the network once tier 3 rights are no longer required with expensive buyouts. The decision to not force ESPN and FOX to provide pro rata expansion money should bond well with tier 1 and tier 2 rights in 2025 negotiations.

If you are going digital, the Big 12 will most likely want to have schools with large fan bases or student body numbers to provide value to the network.

Being patient for fans that post on here for the Florida schools of UCF and USF wanting power conference membership has always been my suggestion. Having time to improve on field performance especially in football and building or improving facilities will go along way towards gaining access to the power group of schools. UCF needs to improve its current stadium and USF needs to continue with plans to build an on campus stadium that is more in line with demands will make a big difference in separating those schools from other group of five schools when and not if the Big 12 finally is in position to expand.

The Big 12 is learning very fast how must easier access for the other five power leagues to gain access to college football playoff by having larger member numbers and not playing round robin football. The Big 12 has already performed its analysis on which schools fit and or do not fit and when the time is right those exercises last year will finally pay off as well as the huge fees paid to the TV consultancy firms.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:32 pm 
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lash wrote:
freaked4collegefb wrote:
Dennis Dodd article(previously posted in another thread)with comments from Big 12 Commish and others regarding how increased future media rights bidding by internet companies "could" impact on future conference realignment at https://www.cbssports.com/college-footb ... alignment/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

After the Big 12 officials finished up their meetings in Phoenix last year with the TV consultancy firms, the plans were to always create a Big 12 digital network sometime in the future. To me this waiting to create the network provides time to acquire a carrier such as Amazon and most importantly allow the tier 3 rights that are expensive at Oklahoma, Kansas, West Virginia, and most of the other Big 12 schools to expire. The Big 12 probably knee jerked a bit last year and tried to probe the usage of pro rata expansion money to most likely fund the buy out of the tier 3 rights and create a network in a faster time frame.

I believe the Big 12 has always wanted to expand back to a minimum of 12 schools when the time is right and affordability is provided with TV inventory demands and not pro rata contract money.

The Big 12 has always held its own in Tier 1 and tier 2 payouts from the national networks and the fear or disadvantage for the Big 12 schools are in Tier 3 money which creates the big funding gaps with the Big Ten and the SEC.

Assuming a carrier can be found such as Amazon which is already providing limited MWC games in digital, the Big 12 conference will be in much better position to launch the network once tier 3 rights are no longer required with expensive buyouts. The decision to not force ESPN and FOX to provide pro rata expansion money should bond well with tier 1 and tier 2 rights in 2025 negotiations.

If you are going digital, the Big 12 will most likely want to have schools with large fan bases or student body numbers to provide value to the network.

Being patient for fans that post on here for the Florida schools of UCF and USF wanting power conference membership has always been my suggestion. Having time to improve on field performance especially in football and building or improving facilities will go along way towards gaining access to the power group of schools. UCF needs to improve its current stadium and USF needs to continue with plans to build an on campus stadium that is more in line with demands will make a big difference in separating those schools from other group of five schools when and not if the Big 12 finally is in position to expand.

The Big 12 is learning very fast how must easier access for the other five power leagues to gain access to college football playoff by having larger member numbers and not playing round robin football. The Big 12 has already performed its analysis on which schools fit and or do not fit and when the time is right those exercises last year will finally pay off as well as the huge fees paid to the TV consultancy firms.


So what do you guys believe the timeline is for some sort of movement on expansion in the Big 12? Suppose OU wins out, and gets jumped by an undefeated Wisconsin that played nobody in the OOC, would that possibly inspire the Big 12 to make a move? Or at least start reconsidering making a move. Then again, how could they get left out if both Miami and Clemson play each other. If the loser of that game gets in over OU, and Wisconsin gets in, does that send a message to the Big 12 they need to bring in more teams? Or would they feel that it was more of a one year anomaly, and see what happens in the 2nd year of a big 12 round robin championship game? Honestly, no matter what happens, I don't see how you leave out an OU team that runs the rest of the table.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:17 pm 
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Anybody got any idea on which schools the Big 12 liked?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:53 pm 
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hendu1976fl wrote:
Anybody got any idea on which schools the Big 12 liked?


I feel the search last year was just a way to rule some schools out of the race and let them know publicly.


The heart that kept the Big8 and SWC together was fan interaction. Two conferences that weren't all that large geographically....where fans could take road trips en mass and support their team in hostile territory. Even when the two conferences came together....the travel was short and easy. Adding schools that are way out of the current footprint....just won't sway the votes for entry. Butts in seats should remain to be an important factor in revenue creation.

The schools that left the BigXII were all outstanding academically. I feel that the conference will want to replace them with other high quality academic institutions. In reality....athletics comes and goes(unless you are Alabama)...but, academics last a long time. Schools like SMU, Rice, Tulane, Navy, ....let's see who else??(any other AAU type school)....are what the conference is looking for, academically. Schools without academics and athletic history just won't get in.

We all know, athletically, ....there isn't any school that is P5 ready...let alone one that has been ready for a number of years. So, athletically...the conference can only speculate as to which schools will prove to be the best choice. That is why I believe that historic performance might be part of the 'athletic' equation. Plus, performance in sports other than football will be a big factor.

Location is also going to be an important factor. Like I said earlier....ease of travel for fan support is going to be a big factor for the schools from the SWC and Big8. Also, the WVU issue of being out on an island should be a big consideration to keep WVU happy. The conference should refrain from adding to WVU's burden...and bring in a school that is either near to WVU or in between WVU and the rest of the schools. Recruiting, is a unique item. Just because a school is in the conference from a particular state...doesn't guarantee a large influx of student athletes to every school in the conference from that state. So while recruiting is super important....adding a school in a certain state isn't a perfect solution to recruiting for all schools.

Main factors - 1. Ease of travel. 2. Academics. 3. Athletics, including non-fb sports, and history of their competition. 4. Location.

Schools for ease of travel: Rice, SMU, Houston, Tulane, Arkansas, Missouri, Memphis, Cincy, Navy.
Schools for academics: Rice, SMU, Tulane, Missouri, Navy, UConn.
Schools for athletics non fb: Rice, Tulane, Navy(baseball); Missouri, Cincy, UConn, Arkansas, Memphis, Houston??(basketball)
Schools for location: Rice, Houston(Houston); SMU, Tulane, Arkansas, Memphis; Cincy and/or Navy for WVU.

Now, Arkansas and Missouri would be a tough but rewarding 'get'.
Rice, SMU, Houston, Tulane, Memphis, Cincy and Navy would all be much easier to grab.

If I were in charge of the conference....I would make a hard charge at Missouri and Arkansas and try and stick to 12 total teams. Those two schools might be having second thoughts on their current conferences and their ability to win championships?? So, give it a shot and see what happens. If Missouri and Arkansas refuse....move on.

Of the schools that are left...1 school should be situated near WVU. Either Cincy or Navy would make a good partner for WVU. Navy could come in as fb only with an option to schedule other sports against the Big 12.....while, Cincy would bring all their sports. Both schools have positive attributes and bring in new areas and fan bases. If the conference goes to 14...both schools would be nice.

Of the other schools....SMU, Rice and Tulane are the big winners academically. Tulane and SMU both have new stadiums. Rice has a large stadium that needs some more renovations, but could easily support large visiting crowds.
Rice and Tulane are outstanding at baseball. SMU doesn't sponsor baseball, but has been fair at basketball recently.

To finish out my thoughts....first choice.....Arkansas and Missouri.
Second choice....Navy and Tulane....or, Navy, Tulane, Rice and Cincy.

Conference alignment could look something like this with 14:
Side 1: Navy, West Virginia, Tulane, Rice, Texas, Baylor, Ok St.
Side 2: TCU, Tech, Oklahoma, KU, K St, Iowa St, Cincy.
In this situation....academics would be high, travel would stay pretty compact, and the state of Texas would be split so that all schools were able to visit in and out of division.

With 14 schools...the conference should adopt a program similar to what the SEC uses. 8 conference games and 4 OOC games.

Sorry for the length of the thoughts.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:27 pm 
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mozilla wrote:
hendu1976fl wrote:
Anybody got any idea on which schools the Big 12 liked?




We all know, athletically, ....there isn't any school that is P5 ready...let alone one that has been ready for a number of years. So, athletically...the conference can only speculate as to which schools will prove to be the best choice. That is why I believe that historic performance might be part of the 'athletic' equation. Plus, performance in sports other than football will be a big factor.

Location is also going to be an important factor. Like I said earlier....ease of travel for fan support is going to be a big factor for the schools from the SWC and Big8. Also, the WVU issue of being out on an island should be a big consideration to keep WVU happy. The conference should refrain from adding to WVU's burden...and bring in a school that is either near to WVU or in between WVU and the rest of the schools. Recruiting, is a unique item. Just because a school is in the conference from a particular state...doesn't guarantee a large influx of student athletes to every school in the conference from that state. So while recruiting is super important....adding a school in a certain state isn't a perfect solution to recruiting for all schools.

Main factors - 1. Ease of travel. 2. Academics. 3. Athletics, including non-fb sports, and history of their competition. 4. Location.

Schools for ease of travel: Rice, SMU, Houston, Tulane, Arkansas, Missouri, Memphis, Cincy, Navy.
Schools for academics: Rice, SMU, Tulane, Missouri, Navy, UConn.
Schools for athletics non fb: Rice, Tulane, Navy(baseball); Missouri, Cincy, UConn, Arkansas, Memphis, Houston??(basketball)
Schools for location: Rice, Houston(Houston); SMU, Tulane, Arkansas, Memphis; Cincy and/or Navy for WVU.

Now, Arkansas and Missouri would be a tough but rewarding 'get'.
Rice, SMU, Houston, Tulane, Memphis, Cincy and Navy would all be much easier to grab.

If I were in charge of the conference....I would make a hard charge at Missouri and Arkansas and try and stick to 12 total teams. Those two schools might be having second thoughts on their current conferences and their ability to win championships?? So, give it a shot and see what happens. If Missouri and Arkansas refuse....move on.

Of the schools that are left...1 school should be situated near WVU. Either Cincy or Navy would make a good partner for WVU. Navy could come in as fb only with an option to schedule other sports against the Big 12.....while, Cincy would bring all their sports. Both schools have positive attributes and bring in new areas and fan bases. If the conference goes to 14...both schools would be nice.

Of the other schools....SMU, Rice and Tulane are the big winners academically. Tulane and SMU both have new stadiums. Rice has a large stadium that needs some more renovations, but could easily support large visiting crowds.
Rice and Tulane are outstanding at baseball. SMU doesn't sponsor baseball, but has been fair at basketball recently.

To finish out my thoughts....first choice.....Arkansas and Missouri.
Second choice....Navy and Tulane....or, Navy, Tulane, Rice and Cincy.

Conference alignment could look something like this with 14:
Side 1: Navy, West Virginia, Tulane, Rice, Texas, Baylor, Ok St.
Side 2: TCU, Tech, Oklahoma, KU, K St, Iowa St, Cincy.
In this situation....academics would be high, travel would stay pretty compact, and the state of Texas would be split so that all schools were able to visit in and out of division.

With 14 schools...the conference should adopt a program similar to what the SEC uses. 8 conference games and 4 OOC games.

Sorry for the length of the thoughts.


Lot of good thoughts. I agree with you on ease of travel consideration. Proximity is one of those things that makes a conference a conference. Although, I do think the whole reason for expansion is football, so that should probably be a consideration. Historical performance of Rice, Tulane, SMU and Memphis. Other than the largest cheating scandal in the history of the NCAA (SMU) you would have to be a historian to say any of those teams have history. I think academics would be something you use to rule somebody out.

The WVU isolation issue must be addressed, that is why I think Cincy makes the most sense. Also, they would be able to recruit without further diluting your own product. If the Big 12 did expand, I would think they need to bring in schools that can add to the conference without taking from it. Most of the schools you mention already recruit the state of Texas, with the exception of Cincy and maybe Memphis. I think Tulane recruits Texas and I know Navy does because they petitioned the AAC to be in the West for that reason.

In regards to not being athletically ready, how long did it take TCU to get athletically ready? 3 seasons. If you add schools from P5 recruiting states (TX, CA, OH, FL, PA) they can get real good very fast, IMO.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:58 pm 
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I'm feeling pretty good right now about my heavy pro-UCF lobbying and "You're not adding a team's past, you're adding a team's future" stance over the last few years, considering UCF is the only undefeated team in college football.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:42 pm 
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What's going to happen with Scott Frost gone ? UCF was 0-12 two years ago....


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:06 pm 
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JPSchmack wrote:
I'm feeling pretty good right now about my heavy pro-UCF lobbying and "You're not adding a team's past, you're adding a team's future" stance over the last few years, considering UCF is the only undefeated team in college football.


I have absolutely no hate or love for UCF or USF...I am totally neutral on them in reality.

What I'm not neutral on:
1. Neither of those schools have any connection to the Big12....either athletically, academically, or otherwise. These two schools aren't even on the radar for the Big12 and never have been. Think of any other group that is private....how does someone gain entrance? Connections. TCU and WVU both had connections to the B12 before they were added.

2. The Big12 has 1 outlier already. Adding 1 or 2 more outliers is rediculous financially and for fan support. Here is a quote from the CUSA article posted in that thread by PATRICK MAGEE : "In general, South Florida doesn’t support college sports well."

3. Your theory that you add a teams future is adsurd.
Is that how Maryland and Rutgers got into the B1G? No.
Is that how Colorado got into the Pac12? No.
Is that why BYU is still without a conference? No.
You just want your school in the Big12 so badly that you are willing to overlook the obvious reasons schools get invited to a new or better conference.

The Big12 has many schools to choose from....and none of them should be from Florida unless their name is Florida State.

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