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 Post subject: Big 12 realignment
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 12:53 pm 
did you actually think that Secretary of Education is actually a bona fide cabinet post? Granted, Lamar Alexander was a pimp...


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 Post subject: Big 12 realignment
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 8:46 pm 
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Georgia's public education is pretty bad, but I didn't realize they were #49. I figured they were ahead of Arkansas AND Mississippi.

UGA is certainly a cut above MSU, Alabama, et. al., but that's not a lot to brag about. Archrival Auburn does, however, manage to top them in major NCAA violations, even if UGA manages to look worse when they get caught.

I'm not from the north and I didn't get higher education in Georgia, but I did learn to speak there.



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 Post subject: Big 12 realignment
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2005 6:07 pm 
I so much want to weigh-in on the five or six commentaries above. However, I will control my comments. I am deeply familiar with 3 SEC schools via employment or as a former student (obviously by the SN one can guess at least one of them), taught at and live near a Big 10 school and have been a longterm faculty member and administrator at an eastern state college, deep into sports as well. I also was an undergraduate at a, yes, Georgia (other than UGA) university frequently mentioned on these boards. I have served on several accreditation team reviews.

I could write another dissertation here. I will spare all you and myself. I will say, let's not get too deep in stereotyping, mislabeling, regionalism, or equating public education funding in a given state with the characteristics of its individual colleges and universities. In California, for example, with their budget crisis, immigration issues, etc. their public education certainly has quickly moved in another direction in comparative national data. Those facets certainly do impact their state system of higher edcation as well. However, the profiling of their individual colleges and universities may not reflect the identical graphics. While Mississippi was mentioned as an example, they actually have a decent state college/university structure considering their demographics and revenue. While Mississippi is a low revenue based state, the percentage of their tax base going towards public education was onetime the nation's highest. Of course, that differs dramatically from the revenue collected, particularly when its per capita income is comparatively less.
To often, one can be quick to judge deficiencies as the result of population ignorance and the absence in the values of education. This may be true to some degree, but the revenue base is critical. The federal tax cuts, while continuing deficit spending, and the wave of political conservatism certainly shapes priorities.
People in Georgia appreciate having the nation's lowest gas tax. If one advocates that it be increased to improve K-12 public education, the resistence will come from multiple quarters, not just those who think public education is already getting enough. The frustration with No-Child-Left-Behind and the dismal outlook on public education extends all over the nation; not just confined to the deep south.


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 Post subject: Big 12 realignment
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2005 8:34 pm 
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I couldn't resist poking fun at UGA after the Wildcat and cutabove's "kneejerk" comments.

As you may recall, the Wildcats and Bulldogs are 2 of my favorite teams and I have a lot of connections with UK and UGA. That doesn't mean I will over-rate their academic reputation.

I did have a friend from California who transferred from UCLA to UK. The natural question was WHY??????!!!!
The answer was that UK was stronger in her discipline. But noone would seriously argue that UK is a better overall academic school than UCLA.

Interestingly, she was at UCLA in 75, UK in 78 and was getting her MBA at UH during the Phi Slama Jama years. We figured she would get a full ride for her Phd from the division I school of her choice.


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 Post subject: Big 12 realignment
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2005 9:16 am 
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A lot of you are focusing on the wrong kind of details. A) Whoever said adding Iowa State to the Big 10 would give Iowa a conference rival.... They already have a big rivalry with Minnesota and now they are starting to have a big rivalry with Wisconsin. Every time Iowa play Minn & Wisc they are playing for a rivalry trophy
B)In addition to the Iowa rivalry comment, somebody was talking about how Mizzou would have to give up their rivalry with Kansas if they went to the Big 10
-They could still play Non-Conf
-TEAMS ARE NOT GOING TO DECIDE IF THEY ARE SWITCHING TO A DIFFERENT CONF. OR NOT BASED ON IF THEY'D ADD OR LOOSE A RIVALRY GAME!!!!!
C)People are talking about how if Mizzou went to the Big 10 it'd hurt their chances of recruiting in Texas.... They would still be able to recruit in Texas just fine as a BIG 10 team.
D)To whoever was like.... "Who else would the Pac 10 want to add" (besides BYU and Colorado i think) Boise State, Utah, New Mexico are all possibilities.
E)Whoever thinks ND will join any conference (Big East or Big 10) YOU ARE DEAD WRONG!!! ND just renewed their TV contract with NBC. By having a contract of their own they make WAY more money than team in conference that have to split up the t.v. $ with the weaker conf teams. As long as ND has such a huge fan base, NBC will give them the contract. and as long as they have that contract, they will stay independent.
F) That leads me into my final point. Quit focusing on the wrong details. There is pretty much ONE factor that will decide where teams go... $$$$$$$$$$$$. It isn't coaches and players making the decision.. if it were then maybe the rivalries and recruiting would matter. But it isn't like that. The people making these decisions are worried about the bottom line. Money.


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 Post subject: Big 12 realignment
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2005 9:41 am 
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Also...
A) To whoever said Neb will go to the Big 10 because they are jealous of Texas getting the spotlight in the Big XII.. you like men. Again, teams don't leave conferences for reasons like that... they leave for $.

B) the person saying that Tex wont go to the SEC because they have to play a lot of game in a different time zone... you also like men. I think they'd sacrifice that 1 hour if the $ was right.

C)ARKANSAS WILL NOT GO TO THE BIG XII!!! PERIOD! they'd loose way to much $.

D) I think Mizzou would be the #1 draw for the big 10 (Besides ND, which shouldn't even be discussed cuz that is not a possibility.) They would add a whole new market... the KC and St Louis area would add a lot of $ to the conference.


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 Post subject: Big 12 realignment
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2005 9:56 am 

Quote:
ND just renewed their TV contract with NBC.



When was this? Do you have a link?


Quote:
By having a contract of their own they make WAY more money than team in conference that have to split up the t.v. $ with the weaker conf teams.


Do they?

To be honest, as long as ND has that TV contract I think they'll rub the B10's nose in it as they thumb their noses at joining the conference.

I think ND would sign a contract that would guarantee them less money than they could get with the B10 just to say that "we're still independant" and to keep from having to join the B10.


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 Post subject: Big 12 realignment
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2005 11:58 am 
aj, while you have some valid comments some responses seem warranted.


Quote:
"Who else would the Pac 10 want to add" (besides BYU and Colorado i think) Boise State, Utah, New Mexico are all possibilities.
If Boise St. can't prove their financial worth to gain entry in the MWC, they won't be on the PAC 10 radar. Which is further moot given the PAC 10 would only take in flagships or private schools anyway. Utah fits the mold, New Mexico simply wouldn't equate to enough $$. Given your other comments you should understand this.


Quote:
Whoever thinks ND will join any conference (Big East or Big 10) YOU ARE DEAD WRONG!!! ND just renewed their TV contract with NBC. By having a contract of their own they make WAY more money than team in conference that have to split up the t.v. $ with the weaker conf teams. As long as ND has such a huge fan base, NBC will give them the contract. and as long as they have that contract, they will stay independent.
While I agree ND will do everything in its power to keep their football independent, part of their ability to remain so and still make a lot of money is their conference membership in the BE for all other sports. What if that were taken away? ND's annual conference revenues and money received for football (TV and BCS) will equal about $15 million. The Big 10 schools will each get approximately $10-12 million. If the BE splits and ND is unable to bunk with the all-sport camp, chances are their membership rewards as part of the so-called Catholic League would be for a good deal less then via the BE. Further, while the bowls may like ND, the conferences do not. So long as conferences are looking for secured money from the bowls and if ND is not affiliated with any major conference, then the pressure on them grows.

Again, it's a given they'll fight for independence till the end of time, but if the B10 schools ever sought a championship game then it's very conceivable a member of that conference might make more money than ND as an indie. Or at the least that their membership in the B10 could be more profitable than indie status.


Quote:
A) To whoever said Neb will go to the Big 10 because they are jealous of Texas getting the spotlight in the Big XII.. you like men. Again, teams don't leave conferences for reasons like that... they leave for $.

B) the person saying that Tex wont go to the SEC because they have to play a lot of game in a different time zone... you also like men. I think they'd sacrifice that 1 hour if the $ was right.
Those comments are uncalled for. If your points are good enough to stand on their own, then please take them elsewhere.


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 Post subject: Big 12 realignment
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2005 4:55 pm 

Quote:
Also...
A) To whoever said Neb will go to the Big 10 because they are jealous of Texas getting the spotlight in the Big XII.. you like men. Again, teams don't leave conferences for reasons like that... they leave for $.

B) the person saying that Tex wont go to the SEC because they have to play a lot of game in a different time zone... you also like men. I think they'd sacrifice that 1 hour if the $ was right.

C)ARKANSAS WILL NOT GO TO THE BIG XII!!! PERIOD! they'd loose way to much $.

D) I think Mizzou would be the #1 draw for the big 10 (Besides ND, which shouldn't even be discussed cuz that is not a possibility.) They would add a whole new market... the KC and St Louis area would add a lot of $ to the conference.


Yeah, I LIKE MEN, those that are studly, cute, and know how to deliver. Your message is that those who not agree with your flawed opinions are gay. Gays and women could be just informed as you are, and judging by your comments, deeper thinkers as well. Those that that take time to convey homophobia and name calling, when that is not the topic, are the real closet cases and struggling with their inner feelings. COME OUT, you'll feel much better!


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 Post subject: Big 12 realignment
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2005 9:36 pm 
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The Big 12 is not breaking up. The only two schools that have a reasonable chance of gaining more than they would lose by leaving are Colorado and Missouri.

Colorado offers the Pac 10 geographical proximity and academic reputation. However, their football program is currently scandal-ridden. That can always change.

Missouri offers geographical proximity and academic reputation to the Big 10/11. Their alums, especially in the St. Louis area, probably wouldn't mind moving over to the Big 10, in spite of a century of history with the Big 6/7/8/12. I don't really see them moving over, though.

Nonetheless, I do not see any schools leaving the Big XII any time soon, as the Pac 10 is fighting expansion as much as possible, and the Big 10/11 is trying to save that 12th spot for Notre Dame.

There is that gnawing perception among the Big XII North schools that the Texas schools (especially UT) are running the conference. (Disclosure: I am an OU fan living in Texas...I grew up following the Big 8 schools.) UT, with its academic reputation, enrollment, alumni base, and resources, would be an 800-pound gorilla in any conference they would choose to be in (like any OU fan, I despise them, but I do respect their program). The conference has bent over backwards during the last 10 years to establish some sort of unity and identity, which does not come overnight. This was a marriage of necessity, as the Big 8 needed the Texas TV markets, and UT and A&M needed to get out of the old SWC. It was totally different from the SEC simply adding Arkansas and South Carolina to create a 12-team conference. It truly was and is creating a new conference from scratch, though a lot of us old Big 8 diehards would rather not admit it. I think the conference has come a long way in its short history, and has a long way to go, but its best days are ahead of it.


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 Post subject: Big 12 realignment
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 7:50 am 
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The thing about the Big 12 is, what if the Big 8 decided to be the first and somehow got Arkansas and LSU along with Texas and A&M. That would have been a super conference for sure.

I'm talking about back when Big 10 added Penn St.


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 Post subject: Big 12 realignment
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 8:32 am 
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Location: Portland! (and about time!)
Metro speaks the truth in terms of distances. Moreover, there's a lot of "natural resource-related" economic ties between Colorado and Texas that tends to fit with the current arrangement.

Colorado is also the eastern outpost of the "flight from California." To that end, it seems a lot of the professors in Boulder (from items I saw many years ago) wish they were in the Pac-10 vice a Big 12 that is, after all, semi-borne of the scandal-ridden SWC.

Um, oops.

The dynamic at work still applies. Colorado has to want to make the jump, and the Pac-10 has to know of a suitable partner that actually expands the TV and recruiting footprint. You could argue that the Pac wouldn't jump unless they got Texas. In the meantime, even that upsets the recruiting dynamic in the Pac that many schools try to maintain in California. If it isn't just right, it's not going to happen. Collegeguru is wrong in one very important aspect- the Pac-10 is not "fighting" expansion; they're merely waiting for the dollars and footprint to actually justify it. The Utahs and Nevadas and the Hawaiis of the college sports world don't come close to doing that.

Well, I did suggest UNAM and UdG once upon a time. ;D (or was that UAG... I forget)


Last edited by pounder on Wed Jun 01, 2005 8:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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