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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:20 pm 
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lash wrote:
Nice to see conversations on future Big 12 expansion. The following schools were not eliminate from last years discussion on expansion and most likely would be the top target of group of five schools if the conference decided to expand without power five options: Tulane, SMU, Houston, UConn, South Fla, UCF, Cincinnati, Air Force, Colorado State, BYU.


Awesome!!! I had not heard that. Cool that we made the top 10. Semi-finalist coming off an 0-12 season.

Wonder what the order looked like. Hard for me to believe SMU and Houston weren't at the top. Imagine Cincy was near the top as well, almost a lock, IMO. Was the no Sunday thing that big a deal against BYU?

I know Tulane has had some success in Baseball, but have they done much in any other sport?


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:30 pm 
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mozilla wrote:
hendu1976fl wrote:
mozilla wrote:
The tv model is ever changing these days. Unlike what it was 10 years ago...the internet will continue to reshape how people watch college sports. TV viewership and tv money could dry up or move a totally different direction. Why not concentrate on filling the stadium with fans? Fans that can actually travel en' mass by driving a short distance. If that were the case...schools wouldn't have to depend on some outside decision maker to tell them what to do and how to do it. Full stadiums equals direct money for each and every school in the conference.

BYU has the same location problem that the Florida schools have. Adding them would only put another outlier on the schedule. Not really the optimal situation. Navy would be a much better choice.

BYU is not AAU, though they have a well ranked school educationally.

And in my opinion....BYU isn't really as great as everyone likes to think. Their fan base and fan support is excellent I will admit. But, they really haven't proven to me that they are the world beaters that BYU fans like to think they are. BYU has a history of playing weak competition...essentially they have the same historic schedule as a Colorado St or New Mexico....and both those schools are much closer to the core of the conference.

The issues that came up last year....and BYU's reluctance to be a team player in any conference they have been in...worries me a bit. The last thing the Big12 needs is another school that makes problems for the whole conference. The other schools that were easily disgruntled are gone. No need to add another one to replace them. BYU should work towards getting into the PAC12...that is where they fit the best. If the PAC has no desire to add them for some reason....then that reason could easily be adopted by the Big12.

You mentioned the other Texas schools....those schools already recruit the state of Texas...so, they wouldn't hurt Big12 recruiting. All their rosters are already full of Texas kids.
I don't think any of the B12 schools have trouble recruiting....barring Kansas maybe.


Agreed on the TV issues. No idea where that is heading and what that will look like when its time to renegotiate.

My point about SMU, Houston and even Rice is that they are like UCF and USF. UCF/USF are not going to be able to land the majority of the kids recruited by FSU/UF/Miami. Because we are not in a P5 conference, it is tough to get those kids to seriously look at our school. Same thing goes for UH/SMU/Rice vs TCU/Baylor/TTU/UT. However, if SMU and Houston are in the Big 12, they will get some of the kids that would have gone to TCU/Baylor/TTU and certainly some of the out of state Big 12 schools.


I guess I see the recruiting just a bit differently.
Instead of UofH, SMU, and Rice stealing from TCU, Baylor, Texas and Tech.....I feel they would keep some of the kids from going to K St, KU, Iowa St and WVU. UO has as good a lock on Texas kids as anyone. OSU might lose a few kids to the new comers.

Recruiting just isn't that big a problem. There are plenty of quality players around the country. It's not like schools are hurting for bodies. I would put recruiting down on the list of needs for NCAA fb and the Big 12.
Even UofH got a 5 star recruit a year or two ago.
You also have to remember....that Texas has a whole second and third teir of fb schools that have quite a few good players....unlike many other states. Some of the recruits would come from UTSA, Texas St, UTEP, N. Texas; Sam Houston, SFA, Lamar, Abilene Christian, Houston Baptist, and others. If you pull the best 4 players off the second and third tier schools....that is plenty of recruits to spread around.


If Houston can get Ed Oliver, who would be a star on any team in the county, let alone the Big 12, wouldn't they be stealing 3 or 4 more starters from each of Texas, TCU, Baylor, TTU, as well as the rest of the conference. I'm not sure you want anybody at UTEP. Not really sure TX ST, UTSA and the others can make up the difference if you add Houston and SMU/Rice to the conference. Would Texas want to settle for some of the N Texas players? But again, I think we just have to agree to disagree. I can't argue about the talent in the state. I just think you would be spreading the talent out too thin; especially considering the rest of the conference lives off Texas recruiting.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:58 am 
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I find it hard to believe that if the Big 12 adds two schools to get back to 12....that both of those incoming schools will be from the state of Texas. Seems very doubtful and unrealistic even to a state of Texas homer like myself.

-I am also doubtful that SMU will be included. Two teams in the DFW area seems unneeded. Rice makes more sense with their AAU banner, Nationally ranked baseball and their location in Houston(a place where all state of Texas schools like to have games).
-Again, doubtful that BYU gets in. BYU would make two outliers.....and it is in the exact opposite direction of WVU which exacerbates the WVU on an island problem.
-UConn, too far away from the core schools.
-Air Force, has said publicly they don't want to be in a P5 conference. Has that changed?

I think the list of schools needs to be updated to a more realistic group.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:53 pm 
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Isn't Big XII expansion DEAD ? Or am I missing something....


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:06 pm 
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The discussion continues.....

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:39 pm 
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tute79 wrote:
Isn't Big XII expansion DEAD ? Or am I missing something....

Yes, for the next six years at least.
Bowlsby and Presidents made that
deal with the networks. No B12
network pursuit either, despite Boren's
earlier complaints.
Really, they appear happy as is.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:31 pm 
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hendu1976fl wrote:
lash wrote:
Nice to see conversations on future Big 12 expansion. The following schools were not eliminate from last years discussion on expansion and most likely would be the top target of group of five schools if the conference decided to expand without power five options: Tulane, SMU, Houston, UConn, South Fla, UCF, Cincinnati, Air Force, Colorado State, BYU.


Awesome!!! I had not heard that. Cool that we made the top 10. Semi-finalist coming off an 0-12 season.

Wonder what the order looked like. Hard for me to believe SMU and Houston weren't at the top. Imagine Cincy was near the top as well, almost a lock, IMO. Was the no Sunday thing that big a deal against BYU?

I know Tulane has had some success in Baseball, but have they done much in any other sport?

I do not believe the Big 12 ever stated in public a particular order of preference for expansion teams. We know for sure the teams that were eliminated from the listed were made public including Boise State and Memphis. SMU may have been kept on the list due to the preference of some of the Big 12 major funding guys at Oklahoma State for example. There were rumors of Cincinnati, BYU, and Houston being at the top of the list and that was never confirmed. BYU had many negative issues from fan bases that did not want the school added including Kansas State and Iowa State. Tulane may have not been eliminated due to the Big 12 tie in with the Sugar Bowl and great academics.

The Big 12 digital network is certainly not dead and Bowlsby has been in the Bay Area several time meeting with Amazon and others that may have interest with the potential launch of the Big 12 network. Other interesting movements have Disney which owns ESPN buying up FOX sports. Many of the Big 12 tier 3 contracts including Oklahoma will be owned by ESPN parent company Disney and ABC with the buy out of FOX and regional FOX networks. This could make the launching of the Big 12 network on ESPN an easier transition if the ESPN has rights to many of the Big 12 tier 3 schools. This is what made the ACC network easier to launch with ESPN owning tier 3 rights to all the ACC schools. All or most all college networks are provided inventory with tier 3 only sports. Some football and basketball games are included in tier 3 rights.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:15 pm 
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UCF blog article (previously posted in another thread)listing Big 12 tv rights and discusses "possibility" that proposed ESPN/Fox deal "could" help force Big 12 expansion(to include UCF) and starting their own tv network at http://www.blackandgoldbanneret.com/how ... he-big-12/


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:13 am 
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freaked4collegefb wrote:
UCF blog article (previously posted in another thread)listing Big 12 tv rights and discusses "possibility" that proposed ESPN/Fox deal "could" help force Big 12 expansion(to include UCF) and starting their own tv network at http://www.blackandgoldbanneret.com/how ... he-big-12/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


First, the B12 doesn't want Memphis. Memphis was one of the first schools 'off' the board.
Second, the B12 isn't going to totally throw academics and education right out the window and add four schools that aren't ranked well within the top 200 schools.

Cincy makes sense being ranked at 133....when added with schools that have outstanding academics. But, when added with other schools that have worse academics....it just won't happen.
There are schools ranked academically(USnews) at 14 with AAU, 21, 40 with AAU, 56, 61, and 61. Why would the B12 choose schools ranked higher than Cincy at 133?

School Presidents make the choice on expansion...not TV execs or ESPN. School Presidents will not allow poor academic institutions to overthrow the conference. The Presidents will want a school they can trust, a school where the standards are similar to existing B12 standards, and a school that has had experience with the existing B12 schools.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:06 am 
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CSNBBS MB thread discussing more UCF to Big 12 rumors following yesterday's bowl win at http://csnbbs.com/thread-838936.html


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:36 pm 
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A G-5 school goes undefeated. Immediately their head coach (and a few top assistants) get poached.
The top players graduate / go to NFL / exhaust their eligibility.
And UCF will soon fall back to the pack. Let's be realistic - they were terrible 2 years ago, so this is cyclical.

Big XII had their chance to pick and choose any G5 teams last year (during abortive expansion venture).
They passed, so they didn't have to split their TV money.
What has changed ?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:25 pm 
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tute79 wrote:
A G-5 school goes undefeated. Immediately their head coach (and a few top assistants) get poached.
The top players graduate / go to NFL / exhaust their eligibility.
And UCF will soon fall back to the pack. Let's be realistic - they were terrible 2 years ago, so this is cyclical.

Big XII had their chance to pick and choose any G5 teams last year (during abortive expansion venture).
They passed, so they didn't have to split their TV money.
What has changed ?


When a school only plays 2 or 3 tough teams in one year....they have a great chance of winning every game....and still be pretty fresh at the end of the year. Schedule that team in a bowl game against a school that plays about 8 tough games a year....and the team with the easier schedule will always have a great chance of winning their bowl game. This is what BYU has done for years.

Winning a bowl game doesn't change the fact that UCF has some really poor academics(compared to the other schools being considered in expansion) and they aren't the top school in their state in any one category.

Just like many times when a group chooses a new member....it will be more about 'who' you know....than anything else. If there was a school that didn't make the cut from the original Big8....they would get some attention....but, since there are only schools from the SWC still available...they will get the most attention.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:24 pm 
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WVU blog article discussing "possible" future Big 12 realignment at http://wvuwire.com/2018/01/03/future-of ... ia-rights/


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:09 am 
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mozilla wrote:
tute79 wrote:
A G-5 school goes undefeated. Immediately their head coach (and a few top assistants) get poached.
The top players graduate / go to NFL / exhaust their eligibility.
And UCF will soon fall back to the pack. Let's be realistic - they were terrible 2 years ago, so this is cyclical.

Big XII had their chance to pick and choose any G5 teams last year (during abortive expansion venture).
They passed, so they didn't have to split their TV money.
What has changed ?


When a school only plays 2 or 3 tough teams in one year....they have a great chance of winning every game....and still be pretty fresh at the end of the year. Schedule that team in a bowl game against a school that plays about 8 tough games a year....and the team with the easier schedule will always have a great chance of winning their bowl game. This is what BYU has done for years.

Winning a bowl game doesn't change the fact that UCF has some really poor academics(compared to the other schools being considered in expansion) and they aren't the top school in their state in any one category.

Just like many times when a group chooses a new member....it will be more about 'who' you know....than anything else. If there was a school that didn't make the cut from the original Big8....they would get some attention....but, since there are only schools from the SWC still available...they will get the most attention.


UCF played 11 games in a row without a bye. The last two games you could see that our defense was gassed. A little time off and we got our legs under us. Considering every player Auburn signed over the last 4 years would have been considered a higher prospect than what UCF got, wouldn't Auburn be the more talented team. In my experience, with both teams having equal rest before the game, Auburn should have been able to "dust UCF"- Paul Finebaum. But that didn't happen. Maybe, just maybe, UCF is pretty good.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:25 am 
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tute79 wrote:
A G-5 school goes undefeated. Immediately their head coach (and a few top assistants) get poached.
The top players graduate / go to NFL / exhaust their eligibility.
And UCF will soon fall back to the pack. Let's be realistic - they were terrible 2 years ago, so this is cyclical.

Big XII had their chance to pick and choose any G5 teams last year (during abortive expansion venture).
They passed, so they didn't have to split their TV money.
What has changed ?


For UCF, all of the skill players other than TE's are juniors or under. QB is a soph. All RB's who played the last half of the season are soph or true Fr. Starting RB lost in 2nd game against Maryland was a Soph. Trequan Smith at WR is a Jr, but the rest are soph and Fr. Defense loses a few guys.

I don't know what has changed. UCF is 2 for 2 in NY6 Bowl games. Our head coach is not moonlighting as the AD this year. Basketball is doing well. Hopefully we get our best player back. Truthfully, he might have played today against Memphis. Got Temple, UConn and Cincy in our next 3.

I haven't heard anything serious about the Big 12 reopening expansion talks. Suppose it is only natural for rumors to get started when one of the former expansion candidates has a great season ending in a NY6 bowl victory. But most of the talk I suppose is just talk.

I don't think being 0-12 is cyclical. There were serious issues- the HC taking over as the AD, the promotion of a crony to OC, and massive injuries to a scholarship reduced team (That season was our last for receiving scholarship reductions in relationship to recruiting violations by the former AD, who was promptly let go), it was a perfect storm. I think this season and 2013 are more likely than 0-12. I can see a bad year where we go 4-8, but I would think more often than not we will be somewhere around 10 win seasons or better. Or at least in that ball park. Same goes for USF and Houston.


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