Seco3,
I do not believe geography is a consideration or factor any longer on a decision a conference makes for expansion or if a school decides to move to a particular conference.

In these days of big bucks from TV revenue, travel costs are of little concern to a conference or a school.

The fans are the ones that are most impacted. How many University of Florida fans are going to travel to Missouri by car to watch a game? By plane you have to fly into KC or St Louis and commuter over to U of Missouri. Remember the SEC put Missouri in the east division for political reason from U of Alabama so Florida will play at Missouri every other year. Every major BCS conference including your own SEC is impacted by these new decisions with geography. I have traveled cross country coast to coast several times because I like car trips which is a little crazy. Travel time from Florida or Alabama to LSU was not easy and going on into Texas will require an extra over night stay for most people.

Before this latest expansion craze, U of Arizona was closer to the LSU campus compared to travel to U of Washington campus. Everyone just assumes if a state has a border with each other that touch they are geographically connected. Missouri is much more of a Midwestern state in eastern portion close to SL and the western Missouri is very western and plains closer to KC. Missouri has very little in common geographically with the SEC for most Missouri residents just because the state has a small border with Tennessee and Kentucky and fairly long southern border with Arkansas. I know because of travels by car through each of these regions several times.

As for Florida State and Clemson joining the Big 12, it will not be geography that prevents these schools from changing conferences.

The ACC was smart by adding a 20 million dollar exit fee. As you can see from WVU legal issues, moving to another conference is not cheap.

If you go by fan response, Florida State fans are not happy with ACC expansion with basketball orientated schools. As we can see from above comments, fans are not the major factor when a school or conference decide to make changes.

I was living in Miami at the time the SEC expanded to 12 schools. Florida State was very close to taking the spot of South Carolina in the SEC. The ACC made a move on FSU and the school jumped at chance to join a more easy path in football. Was this a good decision by Florida State? In those days the ACC and SEC were close in revenue. Miami was very interested in joining as a football only member of the SWC before that conference imploded. Miami athletic director at the time proposed an alliance with the SWC until the Big East reached out to stabilize the fears of Pitt, Syracuse and BC and Miami joined the Big East.

It all comes down to money. If the ACC continues to have bad performance in football, Florida State may find it can make more revenue is another conference. Again money and exit fees will be the factors in the decision and not so much for concerns with geography. Besides if you have ever traveled by car from Virginia to Florida or Virginia into upstate New York, is there that much difference to travel into to Texas from Florida. Each require a plan ride if you want to make a quick trip to a road game for the fans.

Hey Fresno St fan, we have lots to talk about. Other than TCU, the Big East is paralyzed to make any football moves until WVU, Syracuse, and Pitt are gone to get to 10 football members that was agreed on by all 16 schools. Then the conference goes on a expansion binge from east to west coast taking any school that has a pulse. In the process raiding two other conferences at the same time. At least the SEC and Big 12 only impacted one conference with raids.

Yup and my team gets left out again. I like your Idea you posted before any of this ever happened about the BE splitting and have a MWC div and BE fb div. and make it all sports. Oh well I guess I'm okay w/ my schools lesser more regional all across america conf. where we only have to go east 1 time every other year or 1-2 times a year in bball. Boise and SDSU have it a little more messy being in shit*y bball leagues for the sake of fb. BSU makes sense, SDSU not so much since they are far better at basketball.

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WRANGLERS 153-55-1 CVFL CHAMPS '04 '05 '09 '12

NFL CHAMPS '29 '30 '31 '36 '39 '44 '61 '62 '65 '66 '67 '96 '10

BW/WAC/MWC CHAMPS '77 '82 '85 '88 '89 '91 '92 '93 '99 '12
['08 NCAA BASEBALL CHAMPS]

Fresno St Alum,
According to a lot a rumors floating around today, you may not have much to worry about as Boise State and SDSU are having second thought on joining the Big East and may remain in the MWC. Are you hearing anything about this rumor in California?

There may be a lot of factors that give this rumor have legs including AQ BCS projected to go away for all conferences, lower projected Big East TV contacts, and/or the Conf USA/MWC merger taking more WAC schools making the WAC less stable that is currently is for Boise State other sports.

Regardless it never made sense for Boise State and SDSU to join as football only members in the Big East and possibly sacrifice the other sports with no guarantees of keeping football in the current BCS status. It would have made more sense to have an alliance of MWC champ playing the Big East champ for the automatic BCS bid. This would allow the other sports to remain in solid all sports conferences.

The Big East is trying to make Houston and SMU look western when they are far from Boise State and SDSU and east of Mississippi River schools of Louisville and Memphis. Air force was wise to hold up on leaving the MWC due the instability of the new Big East hybrid format.

Of course the best bet for Conf USA, MWC, and remaining Big East schools would have been to take the top 12, 14, 16, or 18 schools and equal number of eastern and western school and form a true new all sports conference.

I see the following possible taking place.

Big East basketball only schools splitting off by forming a new basketball only league. I see Notre Dame going along with these schools to remain independent in football. This will be especially true if the BCS AQ status is removed from all conferences. This works to Notre Dame advantage to remain in a good basketball only conference and independent in football.

New Big East All sports: UConn, Rutgers, Temple, Memphis, Cincinnati, UCF, USF, SMU, Houston, UMass, Tulsa, U of Buffalo

New Conf USA: East Carolina, App State, Marshall, UAB, Troy State, Southern Miss, Middle Tennessee, Western Kentucky, Louisiana Tech, Tulane, Florida Atlantic, FIU

MWC; UTEP, New Mexico, Air Force, Colorado State, Wyoming, Utah State, Nevada, UNLV, SDSU, Fresno State, Boise State, Hawaii

Louisville and BYU to Big 12 when the new commissioner is announced in July. This can be his new achievement to accomplish as the first task.

Just a thought, not arguing, but do you think rumors that the CUSA/MWC better than expected TV discussions is because of them becoming larger (16-24 teams) with tv markets in several time zones, if so does staying separate in your scenario make sense or are you still purposing keeping the CUSA/MWC alliance with no intradivisional games until the proposed semi-finals.

Another thought, is the alliance more attractive to schools than the new Big East if the ACC goes to 16 with Rutgers and UConn? That is if the money is similar.

The MWC/CUSA alliance is attractive but not more so than the Big East, each school in the MWUSA prior to the alliance was getting less than 2 mil a year, compared to the BE school that were getting 8-10 mil. The new MWUSA could vet them anywhere from 5-8 million a year depending on who and how many schools they add, not just because its coast to coast but also because they are using collective bargaining to secure a better TV deal for the top non AQ schools and can obviously claim superiority over the MAC/WAC/SBC. The Big East turned down an ESPN deal last year that would have brought them up to 12-15 million a year for the fb schools but now may in fact take a bit of a hit on that number with the losses of Syracuse, Pitt, WVU, TCU and possibly Lville, UConn, Rutgers, and Cinncy; and the new additions don't make up for those losses so 10-13 million a year seems the most likely unless the new NBC interest significantly raises the bidding.

The MWCUSA gives the networks plenty of content (especially if 24 teams) with multiple teams in every time zone, and the bidders to basically have the ability to pick the expansion options (outside of the AQs/Independents) that makes the deal most attractive to them from the MAC/SBC/WAC and even upgrades like Nova (in Philly if Temple goes BE).

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Fan of the Big 12 Conference, the Mountain West Conference and...

Boise and SDSU staying in the MWC would make my day

As to some prior responses, distance, being contiguous, and footprints have differing connotations and motives as it relates to expansion. Using the B12 as an example, they added WVU to get back to #10. I deem it to be very positive decision given available options for the B12. I expect location and travel were discussion items, among others, by the selection committee and WVU. And, I certainly can see why Louisville was a close, serious consideration, and may still be if further expansion is contemplated.
Sure WVU is not part of the south-north flow of the middle America region where the abundance of B12 resides, but the selection made sense from an athletic standpoint, again, given the viable/desirable options.

Since the ACC was referenced, it is noted, they expanded in a way that closed the gap between Maryland and BC, the result being a contiguous connection; never mind the mileage between Miami and BC---historical rivals from the BE membership days.

The BE went multiple time zones, coast to coast, to fit their desire to continue a case for BCS inclusion and substain the hybrid. If being all over the place is the new standard, then the BIG, SEC, PAC10, ACC, and the B12 (for the most part) would have attempted to go in that direction. Sure recent, non-BE type expansions brought in new territories and geographical domains, but for the very large part, they are contiguous connections. Note, TCU going to the Big12 was an in-footprint addition.

How far Penn State is from Nebraska, or is ASU from Washington, or UF is from Mizzou or Tex. A&M is from So. Car., there is a contiguous flow to it, and media markets do connect. Such does allow for enhanced fan travel, by comparison, recognizing certain schools in a conference shall always be on the geographic fringe, yet most having a few rivals within decent travel conditions.

Nothing being said her on the local news about that rumor. The only hope of them not going is that if the money isn't that much more than the C-TBA and that the AQ is gone. C-TBA needs both of those to get them back. I hear the fb schools will get 70% of the BE tv deal. Like I said on the csn board. If the AQ is gone, and the tv deal is done, after a while the other BE schools might decide that going out west to those to schools might not be worth it and they Temple them or SDSU at least since they are fb affiliates and not full members.

_________________

WRANGLERS 153-55-1 CVFL CHAMPS '04 '05 '09 '12

NFL CHAMPS '29 '30 '31 '36 '39 '44 '61 '62 '65 '66 '67 '96 '10

BW/WAC/MWC CHAMPS '77 '82 '85 '88 '89 '91 '92 '93 '99 '12
['08 NCAA BASEBALL CHAMPS]

If the MWC/Conf USA merger can get the NCAA to grant two extra semi final football conference championship games along with a final championship game, the may be on to something with 24 teams.

All schools could end the 12 game regular college football season games the week before Thanksgiving. During Thanksgiving's long weekend, the two semi final games could be played anytime between Thursday and Saturday with the two winners meeting on college football conference championship Saturday the following week for the Conf USA/MWC conference championship.

By having 24 teams split into four normal 6 team divisions, there could be four semi final teams that play into a mini conference playoff.

This type of format could be very interesting to the TV networks and could spawn other major BCS conference to follow if the NCAA approved the extra games for semi final conference football championship games. The NCAA could require a minimum of 24 teams to allow this type of semi final and championship conference games similar to the restriction of requiring 12 members to play for a conference championship.

Say for example the NCAA agreed, the Pac 12 and Big Ten could do the same with made for TV semi final games with current divisions of both conferences and play a week later for mini conference alliance championship game.

Another interesting scenario could have the SEC and Big 12 merge into 24 team alliance for football with 14 SEC and 10 Big 12 schools and allow the following four 6 member divisions in a mini conference alliance playoff.

Southwest: Texas, Texas A&M, Arkansas, TCU, Baylor, Texas Tech
Great Plains: Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Missouri, Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State
Deep South: Alabama, Auburn, Ole Miss, Miss State, Vanderbilt, LSU
Southeast: Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Tennessee, Kentucky, West Virginia

Wow! would this be an interesting mini playoff between the winners of the above four divisions.

The ACC, Big East and Notre Dame could form a similar 24 team football alliance.



Then you take the winner of Big Ten/Pac 12, SEC/Big 12, ACC/Big East/ND, and another at large which could be Conf USA/MWC or highly ranked team from one of the three alliance for a four team college football playoff. All the other bowls could remain with selection of teams they wanted similar to the old days of selecting bowl teams.

See, we aren't always off in our thinking. Look forward to the next point-counterpoint.

SBJ article(previously posted in another thread)reporting that Big 12 and ESPN are close to agreement on tv deal extention that would give that league a significant tv revenue increase.Link at http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Spec ... -ESPN.aspx

CBSSports article(previously posted in another thread)also weighing in on Big 12/ESPN tv deal negotiations at http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootbal ... 26-billion

The Big12's new tv deal is pretty impressive. It makes me doubt that any further expansion will come in the next couple of years

I concur. Move to 12 could increase money further but would need to be worthwhile schools. Louisville and Rutgers might be enough, but hard to tell.


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I'm seeing this post that someone threw on Boise's board. It's likely that this is just blather, so it's a waste of time for me to post it here. However, there's actually a logic to it.

There's apparently still a negotiation going on. ESPN is supposedly offering an incentive to expand to at least 14, possibly 16. Texas does not want to expand (but the inference is that the incentive may turn their heads).

Then there's a pecking order of schools they're eyeing. Notre Dame (probably won't), Florida State, Clemson, BYU, then Louisville and (someone I forget), then Rutgers, then Boise State.

It does point to "good strategy" here. It's more important to, say, build your conference better than it is to, oh, destroy the Big East. So perhaps there's a logic that the Big 12 will start picking at the ACC, and the SEC might either be close behind or shoulder-to-shoulder... depending on how the ACC can shore up their ship.

Of course, I may have just wasted 5 minutes. You be the judge.