Bravo for Clemson !

Not sure if FSU is similarly devoted to ACC or not.
It is possible that only one guy at FSU decided to run his mouth after being disappointed at new TV deal, and the story "got legs" entirely based on his remarks.
The college president did not give as defnitive a statement as the Clemson officials, but I got the impression that exploring changing conferences affiliation
was not on the front burner for anyone in the FSU administration.

But as we've seen, these things can change in a heartbeat.

It was a no-brainer all along per Clemson.

The now gone FSU Board Chair that fed the rumor with apparently no voiced concurrence may have been his outgoing salvo to project importance.

Also, the FSU President sending out a PRO and CON list to Email inquiries about conference membership was sort of foolish. He really was trying to make a case about why remaining in the ACC was more preferable; but such looked like wavering, giving some hope to those pushing a B12 move. He should have just said as so many often do, something like, "we are committed to the ACC and are looking forward to a great future in the ACC; we continue to monitor the changes in the landscape of college athletics, and always seek to do what's best for Florida State."

JP,
It is interesting you use the word fairness in the 12 team conference championship rule. Less examine a little closer of what this 12 team rule has done for college conference alignment concerning your so called fairness rule.

SEC raided the SWC for Arkansas to meet this 12 school rule which was the final straw for this ailing SWC league and 80 years of history and tradition went down the drain.

Big 8 swooped in a grab four teams to meet this 12 school rule from the imploded SWC as a result of the SEC raid and left TCU, Houston, Rice, and SMU to fend for themselves out in the cold.

WAC expands to 16 to meet this 12 school rule and picks up the SWC rejects just to have the MWC breakaway from a failed experiment of trying to meet this 12 team rule once again leaving the leftovers to fend for themselves.

Conf USA was there to pick up some of the WAC eastern leftovers and expanded every which way possible to try and meet this 12 school rule.

It gets better, the ACC had to meet this 12 school rule and raided the Big East for three schools which in return raided Conf USA before the conference could actually get to 12 schools to meet the rule.

Conf USA was then forced to expand again this time coast to coast just to meet the 12 team rule just in time to be raided a second time by the Big East which was raided a second time by the ACC.

The Big East is child poster here expanding with basketball only schools, football only schools, and some schools on each coast just to meet this ridiculous 12 team rule that you call fairness.

Indirectly the Pac 10 and Big Ten raided the Big 12 to meet your so called 12 school fairness rule.

In the last few weeks we have been amused with Clemson and Florida state going back and forward on pros and cons of moving into the Big 12 to allow that league to move back to 12 to meet this fairness rule.

There are many schools in the above scenarios that would hardly believe your statement concerning the fairness of a required 12 school membership to play a conference championship rule.

Had the NCAA grew a pair and set maximum on conference membership size say 10 maximum members permitted, this may have been a rule we could all have lived with that may have been fair to all conferences.

Wow just think if the SEC had its championship game with 10 members we may not be hearing about all these coaches complaints about losing rivalries and unbalanced schedules. The SWC may still be around with rivalries intact. The Big 8 may still be around with rivalries intact. The Big Ten would actually have 10 schools.

Please explain to me what the NCAA hoped to accomplish with the 12 team rule. If the above scenarios were the goal, the NCAA should be abolished from participation in college sports as early as yesterday.

I don't know if it's in FSU's lexicon to say "Florida State is the ACC" like Clemson's folks can, and that's a BIG DEAL. If they don't have people willing to say that, no matter how many groans it induces from alumni and fans, it means they are unhappy.

And I think they are truly unhappy...but not unhappy enough to snort with Bevo.

Concur, the bonding to the ACC in sentiment may not be the same level. Clemson is a charter ACC member, closer to the conference's core, and had just won the FB conference title in 2011. Clemson recruits Georgia and North Carolina. Dabo Swinney just got a dandy new contract extension even though Clemson's Orange Bowl performance was dismal.

FSU, having chosen the ACC over the SEC, has had a shorter duration in the ACC. FSU came into the ACC with a bang, winning a string of ACC fb championships. Particularly, since 2005, they have not dominated.

I expect FSU really wants in the SEC now if it be told.

I would expect the B12 at some point would want to develop some sort of geographic & practical "bridge" to WVU. While for fb alone it may not be such an essential matter; for other sports, it could be a large concern regarding travel time & costs and having nobody close, in conference, as a valued rival. Morgantown, itself, is not a traditional location for getting to anywhere fast with lovely weather conditions.

With this in mind, Notre Dame, Louisville, and Cincy could serve the purpose.
Independent and unyielding ND could help the B12 more than any other conference. It makes sense for the B12 to offer ND non-fb incentives, at least as a starter.
Louisville may not be all glamour, but they were in the running. Cincy could be a "balance out the field" addition, for the lack of better.

If the B12 opted for a 14 future model, then going beyond WVU to Rutgers & UNCONN may have value in divisional & footprint endeavors.

Like the PAC12, the B12 does not seem interested in schools in the mountain-west region; BYU has such complicated issues; and nearby top schools in the upper midwest and southeast are in stable situations.

Pickins' are slim; so, the B12 hanging at "10" hoping something better breaks later may be a prudent call.

What is gonna break later? If they can't get FSU, Clemson now, who are they gonna get better than Louisville? Wait a year and see if FSU pulls an A&M and leaves for the B12 after things seemed all good w/ them and the ACC?

_________________

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['08 NCAA BASEBALL CHAMPS]

There is the thinking by some, that the "new BCS" format will cause Notre Dame to panic. Don't hold your breath !

Personally, my view of the new BCS format is: Smart money is on the Plus One.

Here is my logic. You have 11 conferences + Notre Dame in the room. (OK, I think soon, you may be able to eliminate the WAC).
Anyway, as these formats are bandied about in discussions, EVERY COMMISSIONER IN THERE is thikning about one thing -
"This new format that we come up with better increase revenue for my conference".

The 4 team playoff would seem to generate a ton of money, but how do you sprad that largess beyond the particapants
(which AT MOST represent only 4 conferences) ? BIG PROBLEM !!!

So somehow, you have to come up with something like this "Bowl Festival" idea or a Plus One (concocted specifically to include representatives of the other conferences),
where you have a pile of other bowl games that don't necessarily feed into the NC game, but give their participants "a stake".
And those particpants all get $20-30 million to share with their conference mates.
The minor bowls do not generate that kind of money, but its the price the big guys earning $40 million for their participation in the NC Game pay for narrowing the field.

I think the way this will end up being constructed will likely NOT cause Notre Dame to have to give up their independence
(as long as they have a shot at one of these money contests), but we'll have to wait and see.

Then there's this body, something called the Council of Presidents or similar, that receives the ADs' report and votes on it or could change it. Here too, is a President from one school in each of the 11 conferences plus ND..assuming they would voice for all Independents and not just themselves for cutting a deal (if BYU and Army, depending on ND to carry your interest should create some anxiety if the playoff format matters a lot to 'em). The SEC rep is the Florida President. Some Presidents shall wield way more power simply because they have the backing and the means to do so.

Agree tute79, monetary distribution will be the big issue intertwined with the playoff decision. Your picture of the outcome may be on-target. Settle for what can get approved now, and then push to make desired changes
later once the foothold is established. It could be something near all can live with but no one really, really likes it.

I know you think I'm nuts when I bring them up, but here's your latest Tulane update. And one of the NIMBY's is said to be selling their place as a concession to a fight she can't win.

This is a school that will have dropped almost $150m since 2005 for its rededication to "big-time college athletics." These guys are exploiting post-Katrina NOLA's fragile economy and building up everything on the cheap.

Tute79,
Since the Big 12 is interested in Notre Dame as partial football, the Big 12 obviously is not thinking a panic Notre Dame football program is the reason Notre Dame may join the Big 12.

I do not know what the Big 12 has to do to convince us all the conference really does not need or want a conference football championship game.

Admitting as well to continue submitting of scenarios for 12 team league splitting into divisions, all of us are compelled to believe the Big 12 is just waiting for chance to get back to 12 schools.

According to the previous and newly appointed Big 12 commissioners this is just not the case.

The only way to know for sure if Florida State actually came out and stated the school wanted to join the Big 12. The Big 12 would then have to make a decisive decision to expand or tell Florida State thanks but no thanks we are not interested in another full time football school.

I just can’t see a league playing 10 conference games with only 2 available OOC games for flexibility in scheduling. The SEC does not want nine conference game let alone 10 conference games and the Big 12 is similar in football strength as the SEC minus the number of member schools. Expanding with a 11 football school would go against the grain of wanting Notre Dame as partial member.

I believe there is a two way street here where Florida State and possibly Clemson can’t come out with plans to leave the ACC simply because there never has been an invite to join the Big 12.

All of us including yours truly need to give the Big 12 the benefit of doubt and just maybe this conference is truly committed to keeping round robin football without the chance of playing a conference championship game for football.

Remember all the trials and tribulations members of this league have endured with the SWC implosion due to Arkansas leaving to allow the SEC to play a championship game just to have the Big 12 formed and more defections nearly caused another implosion for some of the vary reasons to play this conference championship game. Factor in the missed opportunities of higher ranked Big 12 teams losing in the previous championship game and missing out on the BCS is just a major risk that can be avoided if you prefer round robin football.

The instability of the Big East and not the possible panic of the Notre Dame football program needed to join a league is what is making Notre Dame an interesting target for the Big 12.

The Big 12 officials keep reiterating the above facts and we somehow just can’t believe some conference actually does not want to play conference football championship.

Its sacrilegious to not want a conference football championship right! You would think so if anyone was reading this board.

Lash,
Conference size may not be the prime factor for defections. The BE had defections with only 8 fb-playing members. The Old SWC was at 9 when Arkansas defected. Those conferences did not have CCG's before. The B12 had a CCG and at 12 and lost 4 with others exploring other options at the time.
Maybe bad chemistry sets in some places; but near all leave for what they see as better opportunities, whether it pans out well or not.

A fb conference is not required to have a CCG if they go to 12 or beyond; but not having one at 12-plus would make no sense and round robin play would provide no room for OOC games.

Agree, the B12 probably did not aggressively pursue FSU, Clemson, or anyone else for all-sports. However, if schools such as FSU, Clemson, GT, and VPI would be knocking hard on the B12's door, I expect the B12 would accommodate a couple or so. Where would they find something better and willing? If you're at 10, and not all of them are real grand schools, being closed-minded to great additions would be foolish. The B12 is not being foolish, just pragmatic with their real options currently, and placing a priority on internal stability.

Targeting Notre Dame for now, in whatever constructive manner, would be a great land for the B12. Hope it happens, but the incentives have got to be way higher and involve factors elsewhere the B12 has no direct control over.

sec03, we are going to have to agree to disagree here.

I do not believe it is foolish for the Big 12 to remain at 10 schools and let the newly formed 10 members form true rivalries by playing round robin in all major sports for the next few years.

Assuming the conference extends the GOR from current 6 years to 13 years, this conference has a life time to get prepared for what its wants to be in the future.

The ACC is prime example of rushing into expansion with Pitt and Syracuse with nothing basically to show for its except for a lower payout per school compared to the other power leagues. Maybe basketball may be better however, playing a 14 game ACC basketball tournament is a far cry from what was once the premier basketball league. Both of these new schools in the ACC are going to take a very long time to play most of the ACC in football and basketball will be very fragmented as well in the newly expanded ACC. Ditto concerning the Big East on expansion from coast to coast.

I agree with the Texas AD when he suggest the Big 12 does not have to keep up with Joneses because the Big 12 is the Jones. Simply translated is the Big 12 does not need Florida State or Clemson.

When you are a top league with flagship schools such as Texas and Oklahoma surrounded by a host of top to bottom very good football schools, there is no rush to expand with any school with the exception of Notre Dame.

Less face it Florida State and Clemons are not Notre Dame. What this means is both of those schools can live off past reputation and get by with it.

If the Big 12 wants to expand in the future with a couple schools, what is the difference in Louisville and BYU in comparison of Clemson and Florida State.

Louisville has actually won a BCS bowl in recent years.

Perception in college football sometimes really hurts decisions made because everyone just assumes Florida State is the same school as the one that played all those great years in the 90s. Maybe Florida State can get back to that level and maybe the Big 12 is better to wait and see if this can occur for Florida State..

The last thing the Big 12 needs to do is create divisions similar to the ACC expecting a Florida State or Miami to hold up their end. Just look and the state of ACC football and you get my point.

I believe both Florida State and Clemson stretch the footprint of the Big 12 to far and make it very fragmented and do nothing to help WVU with travel concerns.

Less be real here WVU took a major risk to legally jump out of the Big East and keep the Big 12 TV contract in place which lead to the current estimates of 20 million per year keeping the Big 12 in pace with the other power leagues.

If any moves are made by the Big 12, my thoughts are to expand with Notre Dame of course which actually helps to bridge the gaps to West Virginia or wait until you want 2 four schools and take any number of schools surrounding WVU.

One more point, the ACC is not out of hot water regardless if the Florida State and Clemson remain. If the ACC keeps on its current course in football, both schools may be had in the future for basement bargain prices.

The ACC and Florida State has all your SEC brothers to contend with just to get their head above water and that is not going to be an easy task to compete with less revenue.

I think the Big 12 is being smart to hold up with expansion and only entertain Notre Dame as partial football for now if there is to be any expansion in the next few years. Much better to take and wait and see attitude toward expansions as all those expansion candidates are not going any where.

Because you're looking at it backward, with the benefit of hindsight that "conferences added teams because a championship game meant a bigger TV deal."

The rule was designed to assist conferences that had a larger number of like minded, peer institutions manage their schedule.
(Like, the MAC). It was NOT designed to dictate conference membership. It was written when football had 1 or 2 time slots on TV every Saturday. Not the 18-40 we have now.

Like I said, if you have 10 teams, you play nine conference games and determine your champion fairly. You don't NEED a conference championship game. The rule was made while assuming that these institutions of higher learning wanted to fairly determine a champion of their conference.

Don't blame the rules for the conferences being greedy whores.

_________________
1897-1898 | 1900-06 | 1926-27 | 1929-30 | 1939 | 1942

JP, honestly do you actually believe or understand what you just posted?

The granddaddy of 12 team conference the SEC did not expand until the NCAA made up the rule which required 12 teams and splitting into divisions to play a conference championship game. It was not like Arkansas and South Carolina were in the SEC and the SEC needed the NCAA help to determine the best method to crown a conference football champion. If you recall the SEC was forced to raid the old SWC as Arkansas went back and forward until the school finally decided to join the SEC to allow the 12 team rule to schedule a championship game.

The NCAA rule was put in place before any school expanded to 12 teams including the SEC which was the first conference to expand to meet this NCAA rule.

My point that is being made here did the NCAA not have the foresight to understand what forcing 12 team alignments would do to college conference alignments. Every school was in some type of conference and even South Carolina was raided from the Metro to help the SEC meet this 12 team rule. It was not just football leagues that were impacted by this very corruptive rule the NCAA put in place for college conference requirements.

If the NCAA can set minimum limits for membership size then why can’t they set maximum membership size.

There was no reason the NCAA could not have stated to the SEC if you want a made for TV championship football game then schedule one with five team divisions or just take the top two teams and play this game.

By the nature of forcing larger conference sizes is what has lead to the ability for these conference to be greedy by taking schools just to get the TV markets.

Do conference really need 12, 14, or 16 members?

The old 8 or 9 team conference model does not work for modern TV as football inventory requires a league to have 10 football members. Recent Big 12 expansions was a requirement for TV to meet this TV standard of 10 member conference leagues.

Without the championship rule and the greed that goes with larger conference membership size promoted by the NCAA football championship rule, all conference should be no larger than 10 members which is basically a TV type inventory requirement.

What we do have to show with this ridicules NCAA rule is:

Pac 12 schools unhappy with scheduling as the four California schools wanting to play every year while geography dictates the four schools have to be split up. This basically prevents U of Washington from play each year in LA for requiting benefits. Did the Pac 12 need 12 schools? Of course not and the new TV contract was indication the conference would have received this type of revenue with or without the 12 members. Oh yes and that magnificent Pac 12 championship game last year containing UCLA which ended up with a losing record.

Big East membership coast to coast to meet this rule with football only schools, basketball only schools and schools with a pause that count to play this championship game.

ACC with two football anchor schools of Miami and Florida State separated into divisions based on football power that no longer exist yet play each other very year because both are in state rivals.

Big Ten this year with a rematch of the same teams that played in the regular season and with a much better game compared to the championship rematch. Again why is 12 better than 10 members?

Conf USA stretched from the Carolina shores to west Texas and taking on schools that have never competed at FBS level just to continue to meet this ridicules 12 team requirement.

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Just think what we could have had as fans if the NCAA would have set limits on membership size and never created the 12 team conference rule.

Big Ten, SEC, and Pac 10 all would have maximum membership size of 10 schools. Round robins sports, etc.

ACC would have stopped in membership size with taking on Florida State for 9 and possibly latter Miami to meet the 10 member limit size. Otherwise Miami would have been Metro bound if the school needed an all sports conference of 10 membership limits.

Metro would be around and we would never had to experience Conf USA and the issues this league has promoted over the years to meet the 12 team membership size. Not sure which is worse Conf USA or the Big East.

SWC may still be around or a couple schools jumped to the Big 8 to for maximum size of 10 schools.

WAC 10 member conference would be on solid ground.

And finally in your neck of the woods the Atlantic 10 may have finally transitioned into a 10 member all sports league that would have contained the top 10 eastern schools had the NCAA enforced a limit and the Big 10 would have been required to match the membership size of its conference name sake and not be able to take Penn State for 11 which started all this realignment mess we are in today.

I will give the NCAA the benefit of the doubt and believe they got caught without membership size limits when Penn State bolted the Atlantic 10 for the Big Ten and tried to cover up with 12 team rule which only made things worse.

Are we really better as fans with only the SEC as the only conference that has really faired Ok with this 12 team format.

If it was the SEC that encouraged the NCAA to change the rule, then corruption and greed was at the heart of the 12 team rule from the start.