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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:22 pm 
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Okay, I am following what you guys are saying, but how about this for a pickle - B1G grabs Virginia, UNC, Missouri, and then makes a play for Notre Dame to be the last addition?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:29 pm 
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Per Big 12 Commissioner Bowlsby comments the Big 12 will discuss expansion in meetings in next week. If Big 12 is serious about expanding back to 12 schools and taking two schools the conference can build up over time per Bowlsby’s comment on Big Ten expansion with Maryland and Rutgers, one option could include expanding with Tulane and Cincinnati.

North

West Virginia
Cincinnati
Iowa State
Kansas
Kansas State
TCU

South

Texas
Baylor
Texas Tech
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Tulane

In this scenario, U of Texas and the Oklahoma schools would be in the same division which is probably ideal for those schools and fans.

TCU would be in the north division to provide Texas requiting benefits for the northern schools and the 3 or 4 of the cross over divisional games for TCU would always be in Texas or adjoining states with the state of Texas for TCU to assist with travel.

Cincinnati would add another Eastern time zone school and provide a closer bridge to Iowa State and the Kansas schools and provide WVU an excellent travel partner.

Tulane would bring an academic benefit as well as being located in host Sugar Bowl city that regularly pays the Big 12 a 40 million dollars per year payday.

TCU would most likely be in the host metro area of the conference championship game and would provide opportunities to have TCU showdown with the southern schools that are primarily located in and around the state of Texas.

Cincinnati was actually one of the better football schools of the Big East after 2003 dispute the fact the school had limited facilities that could be corrected with Big 12 money. The school is located in Ohio, one of the better requiting northern states for football talent.

Tulane is building a new on campus football stadium and is located in the fertile requiting grounds of the deep south.

Both Tulane and Cincinnati have a potential in the right power league to excel.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:50 pm 
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FSU and Clemson are better targets than Cinn and Tulane.

Cinn will likely go to the ACC after the B10/B12/SEC raid the ACC.


The ACC will look like the old BE.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:52 pm 
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ctx48c wrote:
FSU and Clemson are better targets than Cinn and Tulane.

Cinn will likely go to the ACC after the B10/B12/SEC raid the ACC.


The ACC will look like the old BE.


Rumor has it that Miami and Clemson are 11 and 12. Apparently, FSU is holding out for B1G or SEC invite. They seem to think that the state's 5.5 million cable subscribers make them attractive to the Big Ten Network and that the Big 12 will take them anytime. Good Luck with the B1G, Noles. :roll:


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:16 am 
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It's as though expansion suddenly became an urgency for them.....

Were they a bit "asleep at the switch" a month or two ago, when Louisville was in play ?
To me, Louisville is probably as attractive as Clemson.

Maybe the Big XII wants two schools to put in a South Division with the 4 Texas schools.
In the previous 12 team set-up, Oklahoma and Texas complained that there was a huge football imbalance with the better teams primarly in the South.
(although that can change rapidly in a period of 5 years or less.) When the Big XII was initially set up, Nebraska and Colorado were the top dogs in football.

Nonetheless, I think Texas and Oklahoma would want to be in opposite divisions, but maybe paly an annual rivalry game (the Red River Shootout
at the Cotton Bowl or Jerry World).
So a 12- team alignment could be:
North: WVU, ISU, KU, KSU, OU, OSU
South: UT, TT, TCU, Baylor, and 2 southeastern additions....

If BYU was ever close to having an invitation, they really ****ed up !


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:39 am 
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tute79 wrote:
It's as though expansion suddenly became an urgency for them.....

Were they a bit "asleep at the switch" a month or two ago, when Louisville was in play ?
To me, Louisville is probably as attractive as Clemson.


Louisville is attractive and might still be on the Big 12's watch list but FSU, Miami, GT, Clemson, Duke, UNC, NCSU, UVA, VPI, and Pitt are all more attractive than Lville who is on the same level as Syracuse to the Big 12, just above USF, Cincy, UConn, and BC.

IF they end up expanding with Tulane, Cincy, or USF then sure they screwed up. But if they land Miami, Clemson, Pitt, GT or one of the NC/VA schools (not Wake) then obviously they'd be better off.

Taking whats easiest at the time isn't what's always best in the long run...

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:35 pm 
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seanbo wrote:
ctx48c wrote:
FSU and Clemson are better targets than Cinn and Tulane.

Cinn will likely go to the ACC after the B10/B12/SEC raid the ACC.


The ACC will look like the old BE.


Rumor has it that Miami and Clemson are 11 and 12. Apparently, FSU is holding out for B1G or SEC invite. They seem to think that the state's 5.5 million cable subscribers make them attractive to the Big Ten Network and that the Big 12 will take them anytime. Good Luck with the B1G, Noles. :roll:

Ok guys I am trying to be sensible here with rumors. The Big 12 is meeting on Jan 29 to discuss expansion as one of the topics.

There are rumors at there, Clemson and Miami are ready to move to the Big 12.

I am not sure either school would move until the Big Ten makes its next expected raid on the ACC. It is not a matter of if and just a matter of when. The Big Ten is getting back at both Notre Dame and the ACC and vengeance is sweet when you have the power.

Maybe Miami and Clemson do not want to be left out in the cold and both would not be targets of either the SEC or Big Ten.

Something is up with the Big 12 adding expansion when just a few weeks back, everyone was content on remaining with 10 members and now expansion is back on the table.

Maybe Seanbo you are correct as the Big 12 is not just going to take any school with expansion. It they passed up the combo of Louisville and Cincinnati, guess it must be bigger fish in consideration.

Also, my guess is FSU has a open invite to the Big 12 and can afford to wait on the Big Ten decision.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:56 pm 
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So if this is all going down - the ACC is currently at 14 + Notre Dame

Let's assume B1G, Big XII and SEC all go to 16 at the expense of the ACC
B1G adds 2 more
Big XII has room for 6
SEC adds 2

That would leave 5 in the ACC - whom ?

I don't see Wake on anyone's invitation list....

Once the dominoes start falling, I wonder if Notre Dame throws themselves (football included) into the arms of the Big Ten ?

If Notre Dame does not, how's this scenario ?

Big XII opens by grabbing 2 southern schools out of Miami, FSU, Clemson, GT to get to 12 (and put them in with the 4 Texas schools).
SEC is at the door, ACC is threatened.
Big Ten gets the 2 they want, namely UVa, and UNC (Delany's alma mater).
SEC invites NC State and Virginia Tech.
Big XII adds Pitt and Louisville to go into North and end WVU's isolation, and then adds the remaining two of Miami, FSU, Clemson, and GT.

ACC left with BC, Syracuse, Wake, Duke, Notre Dame.
They could talk merger with Big East, but they own the Orange Bowl, so they can steal teams.
They go after: UConn, Temple, Cincy, USF, UCF, Houston, SMU

Leaving Tulane, ECU to limp back to CUSA.

Anybody buying that ?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:21 pm 
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tute79 wrote:
So if this is all going down - the ACC is currently at 14 + Notre Dame

Let's assume B1G, Big XII and SEC all go to 16 at the expense of the ACC
B1G adds 2 more
Big XII has room for 6
SEC adds 2

That would leave 5 in the ACC - whom ?

I don't see Wake on anyone's invitation list....

Once the dominoes start falling, I wonder if Notre Dame throws themselves (football included) into the arms of the Big Ten ?

If Notre Dame does not, how's this scenario ?

Big XII opens by grabbing 2 southern schools out of Miami, FSU, Clemson, GT to get to 12 (and put them in with the 4 Texas schools).
SEC is at the door, ACC is threatened.
Big Ten gets the 2 they want, namely UVa, and UNC (Delany's alma mater).
SEC invites NC State and Virginia Tech.
Big XII adds Pitt and Louisville to go into North and end WVU's isolation, and then adds the remaining two of Miami, FSU, Clemson, and GT.

ACC left with BC, Syracuse, Wake, Duke, Notre Dame.
They could talk merger with Big East, but they own the Orange Bowl, so they can steal teams.
They go after: UConn, Temple, Cincy, USF, UCF, Houston, SMU

Leaving Tulane, ECU to limp back to CUSA.

Anybody buying that ?

Tute79,
I will buy this and believe the Big 12 will look out for WVU which sacrificed a lot to keep the Big 12 TV contract in tack and making the signing of GORs possible by taking on the Big East with a law suit. Louisville and especially Pitt would be a major benefit for WVU. Likewise Louisville bridges the gap with Iowa State that would most likely need to be included with a pod of WVU, Pitt, Louisville, and Iowa State.

Pod 1: WVU, Pitt, Louisville, Iowa State

Pod 2: Kansas State, Kansas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State

Pod 3: Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU

Pod 4: Florida State, Miami Fl, Clemson, Georgia Tech

So yes I buy this theory because It would work and leave two schools each from North Carolina and Virginia for the SEC and Big Ten to expand to 16 with four team pods.

The Pac 12 has always wanted an eastern exposure and could take Notre Dame, Syracuse, UConn, and Boston College to bring that league to 16 with four pods each.

Duke and Wake could join the C7 schools leaving the Big East.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:14 pm 
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Wake is trash in conference realignment but Duke is not, great bball and AAU.

Personally I think Duke holds more value than Louisville but I see what you did in those divisions and I don't really object but in the overall picture I have a hard time thinking the Big 12 would pass up the opportunity to take FSU, Miami, Clemson, GT, UNC, NCSU, Duke, UVA, VPI, and Pitt.

They passed on Louisville before, and I think they would again if any of those schools I listed above were available.

Still I'll repeat, if the Big Ten is talking about going to 18 why can't to Big 12 which makes perfect sense to split into two nine teams divisions with the current Big 12-WVU in the West and the ACC additions+WVU in the East.

West- Texas, Tech, Baylor, TCU, OU, OSU, Kansas, KSU, ISU
East- Miami, FSU, GT, Clemson, Duke, Lville, WVU, Pitt Syracuse (and possibly Cincy/USF if the B10 takes GT/Duke or FSU)

B10+UVA/UNC (if 18 likely BC/ND but also could be GT/Duke/FSU)
SEC+VPI/NCSU

New ACC West - Houston, Rice, SMU, Tulsa, Tulane, Memphis, So Miss (also possible UTEP/UTSA)
New ACC East - USF, USC, ECU, Wake, Temple, Cincy, UConn (also possible Marshall/ODU/UNCC/GASt)

If thats the line up, I'm sure the Orange Bowl will try pretty hard to dump them and just be a permanent B1G/SEC game, especially if ND joins the B1G (then Cotton could be PAC/B12 game, Fiesta PAC/SEC game, and Peach B12/B1G game).

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:36 pm 
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I believe UNC is going to the SEC with Duke. NC State is a real possibility for the Big XII.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:40 pm 
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seanbo wrote:
I believe UNC is going to the SEC with Duke. NC State is a real possibility for the Big XII.


You are speaking in the right direction, and this could be plausible if the ACC imploded. If one observes UNC-based chatter and commentaries from North Carolina, the SEC would be the preferred destination in case UNC moved. Their location cannot be ignored. However, UNC and Duke are the prime ACC stalwarts of ACC identity and political power, and it would take a heck of a lot of money and other deterioration of the ACC for them to seriously make moving efforts.
UNC jumping to the B1G as the next move? Not happening that way. The ACC is not happy with the B1G right now, and the bitterness has grown.
While some B12/B1G fans and ACC extraction advocates want to impose VPI and NCSU on the SEC, seriously doubt that's happening either. Maryland did not come with sister schools, and some others are not in that situation. And comparing the dynamics to the Texas A&M--Texas situation and expecting such could easily happen everywhere, may not be the case when the motives and politics could radically differ.

Given such a scenario, UNC may come with a partner; you are right about that, Seanbo. It may require it. That would be NCSU or Duke. While Duke would give Vandy certain profile company, and Duke has academic and bb star-power, NCSU is under NC higher education system governance, and spliting the two shall take some difficult turns. Duke has a 33,000 seat fb stadium that is not often filled even when playing some nearby opponents. Their fb struggles most years---it's not the late 40s', 50s', and early 60s'. So how the SEC would take that into account in comparison to more favorable factors and how unfolding would happen, is so speculative.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:58 am 
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CSNBBS MB thread discussing Chip Brown/Texas take on next week's Big 12 meetings and possibility of league expansion at http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=614895


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:54 am 
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I was wondering if Louisville would pull a TCU on the ACC and go to the Big XII instead without ever playing a game in it. I suspect they wouldn't, as they identify themselves as an eastern school (and operationally, they need the state of Florida to make them look good), but would they be the sort to still explore their options?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:53 am 
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Even though TCU never played a game in the Big East, they were contractually obligated to pay an exit fee (I think it was $5 milliion, but they may have negotiated something less).
Jumping to the Big XII was still a no-brainer for TCU, since they could recover $5 million in no time flat, do to the much higher TV money pay-out in Big XII (vs. Big East).

I assume that when Louisville accepted an invitation to join the ACC, they signed on to this $50 million exit fee (that Maryland is now dealing with....).
ACC teams rake in roughly $20 million / year, so the TV money differential isn't THAT great, and it would take some time for Louisville to earn enough money to offset a $50 million
payment to the ACC. Knowing that Louisville is now somewhat locked in by the ACC exit fee commitment,
I think if the Big XII really wanted Louisville, they should have jumped in when the ACC made it know they were going to invite either UConn or Louisville.


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