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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 1:07 pm 
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ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
fighting muskie wrote:
ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
Instead of finding Texas schools, how about these possibilities?

Adding Central Florida and South Florida:

Big 12 North: Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, West Virginia
Big 12 South: Baylor, Central Florida, South Florida, TCU, Texas, Texas Tech

Adding Cincinnati and BYU:

Big 12 North: BYU, Cincinnati, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, West Virginia
Big 12 South: Baylor, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, TCU, Texas, Texas Tech


I like the version with the Florida schools. It gives a good balance between North and South by splitting up Texas and Oklahoma. Unfortunately for the other 8 members and any Big 12 hopefuls like USF, UCF, and Cincy I don't see the Big 12 expanding. I think Texas and Oklahoma will fight to keep the league at 10 members until the GoR is up and then either leverage the other members for even more concessions favorable to the Big 2 or dart to the SEC--by then things will have cooled off between the Horns and the Aggies enough that they can make peace. Alabama and Auburn will slide over to the SEC East and the SEC West will be:

Ole Miss
Miss St
LSU
Arkansas
Missouri
Oklahoma
Texas
Texas A&M


If the SEC plans to expand Texas and Oklahoma, what would be the future of the other 8 schools of the Big 12?


My best guess is they would have to resort to the best of the AAC West and/or the MWC.


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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 1:55 pm 
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fighting muskie wrote:
ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
fighting muskie wrote:
ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
Instead of finding Texas schools, how about these possibilities?

Adding Central Florida and South Florida:

Big 12 North: Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, West Virginia
Big 12 South: Baylor, Central Florida, South Florida, TCU, Texas, Texas Tech

Adding Cincinnati and BYU:

Big 12 North: BYU, Cincinnati, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, West Virginia
Big 12 South: Baylor, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, TCU, Texas, Texas Tech


I like the version with the Florida schools. It gives a good balance between North and South by splitting up Texas and Oklahoma. Unfortunately for the other 8 members and any Big 12 hopefuls like USF, UCF, and Cincy I don't see the Big 12 expanding. I think Texas and Oklahoma will fight to keep the league at 10 members until the GoR is up and then either leverage the other members for even more concessions favorable to the Big 2 or dart to the SEC--by then things will have cooled off between the Horns and the Aggies enough that they can make peace. Alabama and Auburn will slide over to the SEC East and the SEC West will be:

Ole Miss
Miss St
LSU
Arkansas
Missouri
Oklahoma
Texas
Texas A&M


If the SEC plans to expand Texas and Oklahoma, what would be the future of the other 8 schools of the Big 12?


My best guess is they would have to resort to the best of the AAC West and/or the MWC.


Muskie: Of those 8 Big 12 teams, in your opinion, which of them are MWC-worthy and which are AAC-worthy?

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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 2:42 pm 
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ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
fighting muskie wrote:
ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
fighting muskie wrote:
ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
Instead of finding Texas schools, how about these possibilities?

Adding Central Florida and South Florida:

Big 12 North: Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, West Virginia
Big 12 South: Baylor, Central Florida, South Florida, TCU, Texas, Texas Tech

Adding Cincinnati and BYU:

Big 12 North: BYU, Cincinnati, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, West Virginia
Big 12 South: Baylor, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, TCU, Texas, Texas Tech


I like the version with the Florida schools. It gives a good balance between North and South by splitting up Texas and Oklahoma. Unfortunately for the other 8 members and any Big 12 hopefuls like USF, UCF, and Cincy I don't see the Big 12 expanding. I think Texas and Oklahoma will fight to keep the league at 10 members until the GoR is up and then either leverage the other members for even more concessions favorable to the Big 2 or dart to the SEC--by then things will have cooled off between the Horns and the Aggies enough that they can make peace. Alabama and Auburn will slide over to the SEC East and the SEC West will be:

Ole Miss
Miss St
LSU
Arkansas
Missouri
Oklahoma
Texas
Texas A&M


If the SEC plans to expand Texas and Oklahoma, what would be the future of the other 8 schools of the Big 12?


My best guess is they would have to resort to the best of the AAC West and/or the MWC.


Muskie: Of those 8 Big 12 teams, in your opinion, which of them are MWC-worthy and which are AAC-worthy?


I think you might have misunderstood me--I think the remnant of the Big 12 would cherry pick those two conferences. I also think it could very much be an either/or situation where the Big 12 raids one league or the other. Cincinnati, USF, UCF, Houston, SMU, Boise St, and Colorado St might be in the mix. I don't see either the MWC or AAC having enough clout to pull away members from a conference that still has 8 members especially when some of them (WVU, K St, Baylor, and TCU) having very good season recently.


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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 3:18 pm 
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fighting muskie wrote:
ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
fighting muskie wrote:
ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
fighting muskie wrote:
ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
Instead of finding Texas schools, how about these possibilities?

Adding Central Florida and South Florida:

Big 12 North: Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, West Virginia
Big 12 South: Baylor, Central Florida, South Florida, TCU, Texas, Texas Tech

Adding Cincinnati and BYU:

Big 12 North: BYU, Cincinnati, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, West Virginia
Big 12 South: Baylor, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, TCU, Texas, Texas Tech


I like the version with the Florida schools. It gives a good balance between North and South by splitting up Texas and Oklahoma. Unfortunately for the other 8 members and any Big 12 hopefuls like USF, UCF, and Cincy I don't see the Big 12 expanding. I think Texas and Oklahoma will fight to keep the league at 10 members until the GoR is up and then either leverage the other members for even more concessions favorable to the Big 2 or dart to the SEC--by then things will have cooled off between the Horns and the Aggies enough that they can make peace. Alabama and Auburn will slide over to the SEC East and the SEC West will be:

Ole Miss
Miss St
LSU
Arkansas
Missouri
Oklahoma
Texas
Texas A&M


If the SEC plans to expand Texas and Oklahoma, what would be the future of the other 8 schools of the Big 12?


My best guess is they would have to resort to the best of the AAC West and/or the MWC.


Muskie: Of those 8 Big 12 teams, in your opinion, which of them are MWC-worthy and which are AAC-worthy?


I think you might have misunderstood me--I think the remnant of the Big 12 would cherry pick those two conferences. I also think it could very much be an either/or situation where the Big 12 raids one league or the other. Cincinnati, USF, UCF, Houston, SMU, Boise St, and Colorado St might be in the mix. I don't see either the MWC or AAC having enough clout to pull away members from a conference that still has 8 members especially when some of them (WVU, K St, Baylor, and TCU) having very good season recently.


Oops! Then I apologize for the misunderstanding. But thanks for clarifying to begin with, to say the least. Only time will tell.

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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 5:13 pm 
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sec03 wrote:
If the Tulanes', Rices', Colorado States', and New Mexico's', are not good enough, east and/or west, then there's little choice but to stay as is.

To me, if 12 is the immediate goal, take Cincy. It offers some rationale. Then try to find a #12 that best fits. BYU with their large fan base and prior success, could be well worth it if it was not for the inflexibilities.


Yup. Cincy and BYU are, quite literally, the most logical. They're the best revenue-sport programs available reasonably near the footprint, and both bring the best access potential.

Part of me thinks some within the Big XII who are happy with ten will use the "concession" of Cincinnati as a means to also get someone like Rice or Tulane.

CSU is set to spend a mint on their new OCS...Moby's still in need of some work.


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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 6:18 pm 
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BYU wants a better deal from the B12 than ND got from the ACC.

Thus they are not getting a B12 invite.

Cinn has good teams but a weak a tv market.


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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 12:15 am 
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ctx48c wrote:
BYU wants a better deal from the B12 than ND got from the ACC.

Thus they are not getting a B12 invite.

Cinn has good teams but a weak a tv market.


Cincy still has a decent (if not huge) TV market that the Big 12 isn't already in, with quality teams and is close enough to West Virginia that WV could convince the Big 12 to add them. For that to happen though, they would either need to find a 12th school that would be either distant by itself like WV or not nearly up to the Big 12 standard. The best chance of UC getting an invite is if a current Big 12 school were to leave, but I don't see the Big Ten, Pac-12 or SEC adding anyone for a long time.


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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 12:38 am 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
sec03 wrote:
If the Tulanes', Rices', Colorado States', and New Mexico's', are not good enough, east and/or west, then there's little choice but to stay as is.

To me, if 12 is the immediate goal, take Cincy. It offers some rationale. Then try to find a #12 that best fits. BYU with their large fan base and prior success, could be well worth it if it was not for the inflexibilities.


Yup. Cincy and BYU are, quite literally, the most logical. They're the best revenue-sport programs available reasonably near the footprint, and both bring the best access potential.

Part of me thinks some within the Big XII who are happy with ten will use the "concession" of Cincinnati as a means to also get someone like Rice or Tulane.

CSU is set to spend a mint on their new OCS...Moby's still in need of some work.


BYU is 900 miles from the closest Big XII. That isn't exactly near the footprint.

UConn is 500 miles from West Virginia. Add them together with Cincinnati, 750 miles way, and they're closer to 2 conference members than BYU is to anyone in the league. After that, UConn is 1200+ miles from anyone else, but at that point, BYU is also dealing with 1000+ miles from anyone, which is not all that different in terms of travel issues.

BYU is another island. Add UConn to WVU & Cincy and it's an eastern wing that helps WVU with their travel issues. It also gives the Big XII exposure on the populous East Coast via UConn's contract with NYC based SNY.


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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 12:41 am 
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ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
fighting muskie wrote:
ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
Instead of finding Texas schools, how about these possibilities?

Adding Central Florida and South Florida:

Big 12 North: Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, West Virginia
Big 12 South: Baylor, Central Florida, South Florida, TCU, Texas, Texas Tech

Adding Cincinnati and BYU:

Big 12 North: BYU, Cincinnati, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, West Virginia
Big 12 South: Baylor, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, TCU, Texas, Texas Tech


I like the version with the Florida schools. It gives a good balance between North and South by splitting up Texas and Oklahoma. Unfortunately for the other 8 members and any Big 12 hopefuls like USF, UCF, and Cincy I don't see the Big 12 expanding. I think Texas and Oklahoma will fight to keep the league at 10 members until the GoR is up and then either leverage the other members for even more concessions favorable to the Big 2 or dart to the SEC--by then things will have cooled off between the Horns and the Aggies enough that they can make peace. Alabama and Auburn will slide over to the SEC East and the SEC West will be:

Ole Miss
Miss St
LSU
Arkansas
Missouri
Oklahoma
Texas
Texas A&M


If the SEC plans to expand Texas and Oklahoma, what would be the future of the other 8 schools of the Big 12?


The SEC can plan all they want, but Texas would have to be interested. All indications so far is that they are not. Without Texas, Oklahoma has also shown no interest. It appears that OU and Oklahoma State are a package deal and there's no indication that the SEC would be interested in that.

Texas A&M gave the SEC a foothold in Texas and they seem to be okay with that.


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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 1:03 am 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
friarfan wrote:
The Bishin Cutter wrote:
What made the potential absorption of the Big XII North into the Big East were the basketball schools out that way. Adding the Kansas schools, Iowa State, and Missouri was very conceivable because of schools like Marquette, DePaul, and Notre Dame. TCU-BE, while a radical move for 2010, wasn't that terribly disconnected from the Big East through USF, and because of DFW's accessibility.

...but UConn might as well be Hawaii sitting that far out there. The closest school to them would be West Virginia or Cincy (assuming they were picked). It helps nobody, really.

At the very least, they should get Cincinnati for 11, then petition the NCAA for that CCG and other considerations.


So, UConn's distance of 500 miles from West Virginia is too far, but everybody and his brother thinks the Big XII should go after BYU which is almost 900 miles from the nearest Big XII school?

Okay, if you feel that the Big XII schools could join the Big East because of the proximity of the basketball schools, but that still begs the questions with regard to TCU, whom you also referenced in that explanation. If TCU could be brought into the Big East without the Big XII schools as was planned, despite being 1000 miles from anyone else in the conference, why can't UConn go in the other direction when they're half that distance from the nearest member of the Big XII?


Because BYU was supposed to be a member back in the 90's?
Because Dallas-Ft. Worth is a major travel hub and Storrs isn't?
Because the Big East was pretty much a contiguous cluster from CT to KY, while the Big XII is a disjointed, unconnected mass?
Because while 500 miles doesn't sound far compared to 870 (TCU to Louisville), 1256 miles is ridiculous (that's UConn to ISU, the next closest school).
Because West Virginia really isn't happy, and would do anything to get into the ACC or SEC?

Take your pick. I think the AAC isn't going to last long based on the travel logistics...but let UConn figure that out when Temple is the nearest road game and the next nearest is southwestern Ohio...


1. But BYU wasn't a member in the '90's. I don't see the relevance of any discussions from almost 20 years ago. I doubt that many of the same players are involved now.

2. UConn doesn't travel out of Storrs and opponents wouldn't be traveling into Storrs. Football games are played in East Hartford and more basketball games are played in Hartford than in Storrs. Hartford's Bradley Airport is Dallas/Fort Worth isn't the hub that Dallas/Fort Worth is, but it's not Morgantown, WV either. It's an international airport and travel in and out is easy. Travel from Bradley either to Hartford or Storrs wouldn't be any more difficult than from DFW Airport to the TCU campus. Easier in some cases.

3. So, integration of the old Big XII leftovers with the Big East would have been easier, but times have changed. If the Big XII has a need to expand, UConn and Cincy provide the best remedy for West Virginia's isolation. All parties would be in an improved position from what exists now.

4. 1256 from Hartford to Ames, Iowa is a lot, but UConn would come with Cincy, which is 750 miles, so ISU would be the 3rd closest school to UConn, not 2nd. TCU was still going to have to travel lots farther than just Louisville. For football alone, here are the other distances.

- 966 miles to Cincinnati
- 1142 miles to Tampa
- 1236 miles to Morgantown
- 1255 miles to Pittsburgh
- 1500 miles to Philadelphia
- 1544 miles to Syracuse
- 1695 miles to Hartford

5. West Virginia has no shot at getting into either the ACC or the SEC.

I agree that the travel logistics are a nightmare in the AAC. That's why the addition of Tulsa, a small private school of 3000 students, was an enormous mistake. They add nothing meaningful in terms of market or potential. UMass would have bolstered the Northeast wing, would have provided the renewal of a great rivalry with UConn, and would have added a state flagship with 30,000 students in a state of almost 7 million. You make a great point about the AAC and I don't know where this cluster**** is headed, but it certainly is a mess.


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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 1:05 am 
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fighting muskie wrote:
ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
Instead of finding Texas schools, how about these possibilities?

Adding Central Florida and South Florida:

Big 12 North: Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, West Virginia
Big 12 South: Baylor, Central Florida, South Florida, TCU, Texas, Texas Tech

Adding Cincinnati and BYU:

Big 12 North: BYU, Cincinnati, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, West Virginia
Big 12 South: Baylor, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, TCU, Texas, Texas Tech


I like the version with the Florida schools. It gives a good balance between North and South by splitting up Texas and Oklahoma. Unfortunately for the other 8 members and any Big 12 hopefuls like USF, UCF, and Cincy I don't see the Big 12 expanding. I think Texas and Oklahoma will fight to keep the league at 10 members until the GoR is up and then either leverage the other members for even more concessions favorable to the Big 2 or dart to the SEC--by then things will have cooled off between the Horns and the Aggies enough that they can make peace. Alabama and Auburn will slide over to the SEC East and the SEC West will be:

Ole Miss
Miss St
LSU
Arkansas
Missouri
Oklahoma
Texas
Texas A&M


I agree that the Florida schools would be a great move. The problem is that the Big XII has already committed to West Virginia and Florida does nothing to help with that.


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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 1:06 am 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
What made the potential absorption of the Big XII North into the Big East were the basketball schools out that way. Adding the Kansas schools, Iowa State, and Missouri was very conceivable because of schools like Marquette, DePaul, and Notre Dame. TCU-BE, while a radical move for 2010, wasn't that terribly disconnected from the Big East through USF, and because of DFW's accessibility.

...but UConn might as well be Hawaii sitting that far out there. The closest school to them would be West Virginia or Cincy (assuming they were picked). It helps nobody, really.

At the very least, they should get Cincinnati for 11, then petition the NCAA for that CCG and other considerations.


If the ACC didn't get the CCG with 11 when they petitioned the NCAA10 years ago, the Big XII isn't getting it either


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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 1:08 am 
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sec03 wrote:
More of the trying to fit square pegs into the round holes stuff.
The B12 is still sort of a forced bond anyway. That may be part of why the conference has been so cautious about expanding further.
There are NO LSUs'. Arkansas', Mizzous' back, Illinois', Northwesterns', etc., to fatten the conference contiguously eastward with prime flagships and partners.

If the Tulanes', Rices', Colorado States', and New Mexico's', are not good enough, east and/or west, then there's little choice but to stay as is.

To me, if 12 is the immediate goal, take Cincy. It offers some rationale. Then try to find a #12 that best fits.


That would be UConn.


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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 1:12 am 
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louisvillecard01 wrote:
UConn to B12, it's doable for fb, and bb too, somewhat. It's the other olympic sports/women's sports where it takes more of a toll. That seems to be WVU's issue. WVU complained, for example, having a midweek bb game in Dallas, flying out at 5am, and having to fly back to Waco 48 hours later for another game.

For UConn, and others with ambition, the B12 is so much more money than the AAC. Indeed, if the B12 wanted to find a growing foothold in the east coast market, more than one or two schools would be needed to look more connected for it. Getting into Florida is the other factor.

UConn does have the advantage being close to NYC (and Boston for that matter) for flights. Another time zone impacts a little.

B12 keeps sounding very solid on the "10" thing.


Adding UConn + Cincy would help West Virginia a lot.

1. It would create divisions, which would immediately lesson the travel burdens for West Virginia by eliminating some of the most lengthy trips they have in the current set up.
2. Those 2 schools' greater proximity to WVU would make travel burdens a lot better for them than what they have now.


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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 1:16 am 
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ctx48c wrote:
Texas,Texas Tech,Baylor,TCU,OU and OKst are staying together.

Is Texas or OU or Fox interested in UConn or UC in the B12? no way.

While WVU maybe interested in UC or UCONN that really does not count for much.

Where is WVU going? Not to the ACC

Where could Texas Texas Tech and OU and OKst go?
PAC 12

The rest of the B12 could join the AAC in whole or part.


Is the Pac XII still interested in expansion into Texas & Oklahoma? By all reports, they achieved their goals with Colorado and Utah.

Would the factors in Texas that blocked the exodus a few years ago be any different now? Unlikely.


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