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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:56 pm 
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sec03 wrote:
The B12 could enhance themselves by expanding. There are possibilites, but very limited in quality choices for their purpose. When they added WVU, they refused to take also Louisville, let alone Cincinnati. The conference had to know WVU, alone, would be sticking out there like a sore thumb in terms of a geographic connection. But Bowlsby's tenure has added nothing once he came onboard. His comments about expansion have been more status quo than any commissioner out there, and the conference is two less than what they had before, and two less to even match their name. The conference does not want a CCG if it means expanding, and apparently refuse to add with anybody willing.
Agree with everything but I think the ACC learned from not taking WVU and took Lville over UConn to stop the Big 12 from getting them.

sec03 wrote:
If they were earlier trying to court FSU and Clemson, that went no-where. Frankly, most of that, then, was alot of unsubstantiated rumors and speculation, and later was suggested as moves once the B1G and SEC extracted whom they wanted from the ACC.
Not according the to UNC emails..it was real but yes probably in reaction to the SEC/B1G rumors.

sec03 wrote:
The B12 needs more market footprint, and bring in way more fans and more appealing rivalries to the conference. BYU could help in this. Cincy may not add a whole heap, but it is probably the only plausible choice for heading in the direction of WVU. CSU, UNM, Wyoming, etc., are certainly not particularly distinguished in dimensions sought; but it could be more of 'come and build'. I really don't see where the Florida schools are going to do grand things for schools in the plains states and southwest.
Yes to BYU, but adding WVU makes it hard to add them as the Big 12 would have 2 islands in opposite directions. Florida is for recruiting and TV numbers, not really interest. Rivalries are cool but I don't think you'll see any quality adds.

sec03 wrote:
It may be true that some schools in the B12 have strong interest to really move to another major conference and are just playing the waiting game. Yet, they all embraced the GoR. With what the ACC has done, the B12 still will not budge about further expansion. The odd thing is they still have dandy schools in Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, and maybe a couple of more. But to elevate themselves further with the power-5, adding new and formidable fans bases with connecting locales would help.

With no great targets and 2-3 major conferences around wanting to poach them I don't think the Big 12 has a prayer once UT/OU bounce out, which they will.

sec03 wrote:
B12 is indeed a strange (less a point about right or wrong) conference with some of their decisions. But that does not excuse the ACC either. The ACC invited ND to leech on them, refused to accept WVU but Louisville was fine for replacing Maryland, a charter member they lost. That great northeast domination they sought got pricked by the B1G taking their Maryland plus adding Rutgers. One day, that ACC core in North Carolina (and Virginia) will get busted. The B12 may or may not survive in the future. In either case, the ACC will ultimately be on the recieving end of more substantial change also.

The Big 12 will fall back to the MWC level and raid the AAC West and basically try to own the central time zone, the AAC East will basically become a new revision of the Big East.

The ACC will have enough schools to refill w/ Cincy, WVU, UConn, and possibly Temple and stay near the same level of the Big 3 even w/o UNC/UVA and a few others like GT/FSU. They'll clearly be the worst of the 4 but still have enough decent teams to have a quality fb team every few years.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:36 am 
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Going east gets them television sets. Going west gets them flagships, albeit smaller ones, or ones with some pretty horrendous athletic departments. What's the company the Big XII schools want to keep?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:23 pm 
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There is no solution for the WVU geographic issue/isolation unless the B12 takes some huge compromises, and that is very limited in terms of options. If WVU is the hold-up from considering any 'more western' additions, then that's the B12's dilemma to figure out. They made it. Yes, BYU is not really close to the core of the B12. But it could be easier to bridge. Going into central and south Florida would be a 'third' outlier. TV and recruiting are going to be considerations regardless, though Florida offers more of it than most places. Former BE Commissioner Marinatto tried the broad market approach across the country, and it fell apart before it could be enacted. Of course, bigger conferences were also expanding then.

West Virginia was added because it was seen as an opportunity and viewed as the best available. WVU was desperate to leave the crumbling BE, and the B12 needed two schools just to reach ten. The motive then was to have more of a successful athletic fit rather than to build a footprint in another region.

The B12 has three options: (a) stay as they are and be committed to it; (b) expand by 2 or 4 or whatever and try to look more awesome; or (c) hang together until the opportunity arises for movement in multiple directions for other conferences.

(a) is their public stance. The question is, shall that work for the long-term? I don't dismiss that (b) is possible.

As to the UNC Emails, yes, FSU was mentioned. There was also the term "speculation" referenced. That's not to deny FSU was playing its options in case the ACC cracked with more projected revenue dropping. The Emails also relected on B12 and ACC revene comparisons with an indication to convey the differences were not that great of a gap. The fact was, Maryland had the formidable B1G offer which was a real deal but kept largely secret; FSU was in the rumor domain for extended time, and nothing materialized for them outside ACC internal activity. FSU's real objective was to gain leverage with the SEC or B1G, and the level of seriousness about the B12 proved to be underwhelming.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:41 pm 
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I disagree on the fact the Big 12 does not have many options on expansion and ones that can help WVU geographically. The Big 12 is a conference that can virtually expand in any direction north, south, east, or west.

While not totally convinced the Big 12 will expand, there are some interesting rumors floating out with Texas AD retiring and Fox TV having interest in the Florida TV markets.

In the past I have not really supported a 12 team conference, however, the Big 12 may actually benefit in the future by having a championship football game. This down year in football for the Big 12 may help to convince the conference to expand with a championship game that could help elevate the champion over one of the other power conference into future playoff births.

While there is still a lot of college football left to be played this year, if there were the four team playoff in place this year, currently the Pac 12 champion, ACC champion, Big 10 champion and two SEC teams would be the most likely teams in the running for the four playoff births.

Baylor which appears to be the leading team to win the Big 12 this year and possibly go undefeated and started so low in the rankings could gain some extra points by winning a championship game. This season has to be an eye opener for the Big 12. Of course Texas and Oklahoma could return back to top five potential next year, this season is a good example of how some top tier schools can have down years and with only four spots available in future playoff could hurt a conference chances of gaining those lucrative playoff spots.

With that said, the Big 12 could expand to 12 teams and at the same time help WVU perceived geographical or better stated time zone issues with eastern time zone teams.

If the Big 12 wanted to take UCF or USF for the Fox Florida markets, the conference could add Cincinnati as the other school for 12 and have two eastern time school added.

Time zones are the real issues with travel and not so much with distance.

Splitting the conference into the following two divisions and have permanent cross over games to preserve the Red River Rivalry game would work and correct WVU perceived geographical issue which is really time zone issues.

East: Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor, UCF, WVU

West: Oklahoma, Okla State, Kansas, Kansas St, Iowa St, Cincinnati

Permanent cross over game between Oklahoma/Texas, WVU/Cincy, Okla State/TCU, Kansas/Baylor, Kansas St/Texas Tech, Iowa State/UCF

The above would keep the Red River Rivalry game and allow a possible rematch in most likely Texas Cowboy Stadium for conference championship game each year. Allow Kansas schools access to Texas schools for requiting with one permanent cross over game each year. Allow UCF and Iowa State a permanent cross over game for Iowa State requiting into Florida.

WVU would get two games each year with eastern time zone schools and correct any issue the school has with geography.

So yes the Big 12 has many options to expand and many can help WVU.

The question is this year performance enough to convince the conference that expansion may actually be a good thing.

I am starting to be believe 12 schools may be better than 10 and having round robin play based on this season of Big 12 football.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:30 pm 
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It's more like no options. An option is not an option if it has already been rejected. A new possibility is not an option either until circumstances allow it.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:58 am 
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louisvillecard01 wrote:
It's more like no options. An option is not an option if it has already been rejected. A new possibility is not an option either until circumstances allow it.


Totally. What isn't available to them is what they want. Everything else is compromise. I just wonder if schools like AFA and BYU are still on the list and if so, why can't the B12 close the deal. $20m+? Come on, now...


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:29 am 
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Since AFA has rejected the Big 12 at least twice, I doubt they are on the list.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:37 am 
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And BYU will neither play on Sunday nor share the BYU TV revenue.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 1:01 pm 
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I kind of think they're still a bunch of goons down there doing business, loaded with hubris over money that's the only thing keeping the bunch together. I mean, when you consider the best thing the Big XII has been able to get are schools from conferences that sinking faster than the Titanic, maybe it's not those two schools...

I think it says something about the way they play their cards. AFA's a tough sell, but it's not like they couldn't make certain concessions (8 game conference schedule, CSU as the 12th member). BYU's money situation is an easily negotiable issue when the B12 so obviously has the upper hand, and Sundays are an ollies issue.

I don't know...it just doesn't seem like it's as big a deal.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:28 pm 
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louisvillecard01 wrote:
It's more like no options. An option is not an option if it has already been rejected. A new possibility is not an option either until circumstances allow it.

Yea guess its the same type of option the ACC used with replacing AAU member Maryland eh!


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:30 pm 
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louisvillecard01 wrote:
It's more like no options. An option is not an option if it has already been rejected. A new possibility is not an option either until circumstances allow it.

yea sort of like the option the ACC used in replacing AAU member Maryland eh!


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 6:18 pm 
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lash wrote:
louisvillecard01 wrote:
It's more like no options. An option is not an option if it has already been rejected. A new possibility is not an option either until circumstances allow it.

yea sort of like the option the ACC used in replacing AAU member Maryland eh!


Yeah, sort of like the options the ACC used on the old BE, ehh? And Louisville is suppose to be upset over that now? May Maryland and Rutgers experience success in the B1G.


Last edited by louisvillecard01 on Fri Oct 18, 2013 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:10 pm 
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Bishin Cutter,
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 11:35 pm 
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Maybe the ACC should jump on UCF as the 16 member before the Big 12 has a chance to decide on expanding back to 12.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 6:20 am 
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lash wrote:
Maybe the ACC should jump on UCF as the 16 member before the Big 12 has a chance to decide on expanding back to 12.


How about both UCF and USF (in case Notre Dame still plans to be a non-football all-sports member in the ACC, maintaining Indy for football)?

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