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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:39 am 
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mozilla wrote:
ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
Love the predicted format so far. But one problem: Why splitting the Beldum rival within the Oklahoma schools? Would it be necessary?


I believe it is impossible to weaken the bond between OU and OSU. Why not use that to the advantage of the conference?
OSU competing more often with Kstate, KU and ISU will only help those teams out. They have played each other regularly for many years and have developed good rivalries.

Four old Big 8 teams will help the North keep competitive and fierce.
The North would have the edge in Bball. The South would have the edge in Fball.
It doesn't mean the OU and OSU won't get to play each other every year.


I see, just like the case of the Big TEN starting in 2014 (with Purdue and Indiana in different divisions, but still being natural non-division rivals and such stuff).

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 3:20 pm 
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tkalmus wrote:
Frank the Tank on Big 12 expansion candidates...

http://frankthetank.me/2013/10/30/the-b ... -all-over/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

1. Cincy
2. BYU
3. SDSU (way too high IMO)
4. UCF
5. USF
6. Tulane
7. UConn (too low IMO)
8. Temple
9. Boise
10. Memphis

Most of Frank's points are not surprising on rankings of potential Big 12 candidates with the exception of Cincinnati being so high or number 1.

Back in the day when the Big East were looking to replace the first raid of the ACC of BC, Syracuse and Miami, the conference were considering either Louisville or Cincinnati and not both as one of the three replacement schools.

Based on Franks points, Cincinnati is a better fit in the Big 12 compared to Louisville because of the eastern time zone.

Everyone assumed the Big 12 lost out on an opportunity to get Louisville before the ACC had a chance to replace Maryland, however, this analysis by Frank sort of puts this argument on the defense.

The Big 12 has always had options to help WVU travel when and if necessary the time was right. In other words the Big 12 does not have to expand until the Big 12 believes the time is right.

Since I am on record as believing the conference championship games are very overrated and are becoming a nuisance with the playoff format and could very well work in against a conference.

What if the Big 12 expanded with just one school and selected the University of Cincinnati and stop at 11 for now.

Texas
Oklahoma
Baylor
Oklahoma State
Kansas
Iowa State
Kansas State
Texas Tech
TCU
WVU
Cincinnati

Every Big 12 school would continue to play each other round robin. The conference would pick up a good requiting market in the state of Ohio and help WVU with travel with another school located in the EST zone.

It would create balance schedules of 5 home and 5 away football games which would improve SOS by reducing from 3 to 2 OOC games per year.

The Big 12 could come back latter for a 12th school such as BYU after a few years of working with 11 schools if a championship game were really necessary.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 5:01 pm 
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lash wrote:
What if the Big 12 expanded with just one school and selected the University of Cincinnati and stop at 11 for now.

Texas
Oklahoma
Baylor
Oklahoma State
Kansas
Iowa State
Kansas State
Texas Tech
TCU
WVU
Cincinnati

Every Big 12 school would continue to play each other round robin. The conference would pick up a good requiting market in the state of Ohio and help WVU with travel with another school located in the EST zone.

It would create balance schedules of 5 home and 5 away football games which would improve SOS by reducing from 3 to 2 OOC games per year.

The Big 12 could come back latter for a 12th school such as BYU after a few years of working with 11 schools if a championship game were really necessary.


I think it would be great, but I dislike a 10 conference game schedule because I like OOC games (no more than 3 though). However, what I like about this idea is you get a true conference champion and, with only 2 OOC games, they'll have to make it count by eliminating any FCS OOC game. If they did that, I would like the 11 team conference idea.

Would I add Cincinnati at team #11? OF COURSE! BYU would be a nationally superior program, but they're is way too many issues with adding them and I very much dislike football-only members or all-sports-except-for-football-only members. I think schools should be all in or nothing (exception: sports like hockey, lacrosse, and soccer where only a fraction of schools actually participate.)


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:24 am 
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BePcr07 wrote:
I very much dislike football-only members or all-sports-except-for-football-only members. I think schools should be all in or nothing (exception: sports like hockey, lacrosse, and soccer where only a fraction of schools actually participate.)


Same here. And one of those all-sports-except-for-football-only members is Notre Dame of the ACC, with football in Indy mode. The same goes for Idaho and New Mexico State as WAC members with Indy football (only Idaho will re-join the Big Sky next season, but New Mexico St. stays in the WAc, which I believe they should not any longer).

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:59 am 
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I wonder if ten is as far as this collective can really go without opening GoR enough for a school or two to slip out. Even if for football-only, which, I agree, sucks (except for Army and Navy, kind of). The structuring of the bylaws and the GoR kind of make expansion a unanimous topic, and not one of "super majority" considering that "super majority" could be everyone but one of the "big three." What happens if everyone but Texas wants to add Cincy, for example? 9 schools vote to lift GoR for the subject of expansion, could Texas just say "well, we don't want that, so goodbye?"

This conference's GoR was pegged so much to the bylaws, and written in such a way that it's extendable, not necessarily alterable.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:09 pm 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
I wonder if ten is as far as this collective can really go without opening GoR enough for a school or two to slip out. Even if for football-only, which, I agree, sucks (except for Army and Navy, kind of). The structuring of the bylaws and the GoR kind of make expansion a unanimous topic, and not one of "super majority" considering that "super majority" could be everyone but one of the "big three." What happens if everyone but Texas wants to add Cincy, for example? 9 schools vote to lift GoR for the subject of expansion, could Texas just say "well, we don't want that, so goodbye?"

This conference's GoR was pegged so much to the bylaws, and written in such a way that it's extendable, not necessarily alterable.


One advantage to expanding in the B12 would be if schools such as Texas, Oklahoma, and Kansas happened to leave in the future. If a conference is left with 6 or 7 members in which to rebuild, that is tougher than having 8 or 9 members as a base to rebuild. Of course the B12 would not find equal replacements for marquee schools such as UT & OU, but having greater numbers remaining would help keep the conference in existence of which some schools in the conference are depending on to keep from having greater loss.

_______________

ncaanop.....,
NMSU and Idaho preferred objectives have not been to be fb-onlies or fb independents. Their options have been very limited due to WAC fb folding, their lower general appeal, and geographical constraints. Though different circumstances, Army & Navy have complications with all-sports as well, given their unique characterizations. BYU would be willing to play all-sports if one of the western-oriented power-5 conferences invited them and met their list of expectations such as no-sunday-play, and probably some broadcasting issues are involved.

Notre Dame, on the other hand, remains fb independent not only because of their desire; but because entities such as the ACC and NBC, among others in the business, are there to continue the enabling. Your beloved 2nd/3rd ranked 'Noles helped make it happen in the ACC :( .


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:34 pm 
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sec03 wrote:
The Bishin Cutter wrote:
ncaanop.....,
NMSU and Idaho preferred objectives have not been to be fb-onlies or fb independents. Their options have been very limited due to WAC fb folding, their lower general appeal, and geographical constraints. Though different circumstances, Army & Navy have complications with all-sports as well, given their unique characterizations. BYU would be willing to play all-sports if one of the western-oriented power-5 conferences invited them and met their list of expectations such as no-sunday-play, and probably some broadcasting issues are involved.

Notre Dame, on the other hand, remains fb independent not only because of their desire; but because entities such as the ACC and NBC, among others in the business, are there to continue the enabling. Your beloved 2nd/3rd ranked 'Noles helped make it happen in the ACC :( .


It would be possible for both Idaho and New Mexico St. to downgrade upto D-I FCS (making the Vandals to join fb in the Big Sky and NMSU joining possibly the Southland). Under their current and future rate of being new Sun Belt fb-only members, it won't last long until the Sun Belt itself finds possible future expansion members after Appalachian St. and Georgia Southern.

About my 'Noles helping to make it happen in the ACC, what do you mean exactly when it comes to Notre Dame, its status between fb-only Indy and non-fb in the ACC?

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:52 pm 
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As much as we all enjoy speculating about Big 12 expansion I simply don't see it happening. There aren't two schools outside the Power 5 that are both desirable to the entire Big 12 and would generate an immediate financial windfall for the league. I think that mega-conferences of 16+ members are inevitable its simply a matter of when and who makes the first move. The Big 12 will get picked a part and the ACC runs a chance of getting hit by falling debris if the SEC and/or Big Ten don't like what they added as a result of the dismantling of the Big 12.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:19 pm 
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fighting muskie wrote:
As much as we all enjoy speculating about Big 12 expansion I simply don't see it happening. There aren't two schools outside the Power 5 that are both desirable to the entire Big 12 and would generate an immediate financial windfall for the league. I think that mega-conferences of 16+ members are inevitable its simply a matter of when and who makes the first move. The Big 12 will get picked a part and the ACC runs a chance of getting hit by falling debris if the SEC and/or Big Ten don't like what they added as a result of the dismantling of the Big 12.


The Big XII's problem is that it can't close the deal with programs it feels would add value. It couldn't lure FSU. AFA didn't want to go. BYU is too busy being a PitA. Getting FSU is one thing...not being able to lure BYU and AFA into the realm of joining one of the majors? That makes this conference look weaker than any other out there.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:15 pm 
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if the Big XII TRULY WANTED to go to 12, they missed their chance when WVU and Louisville were both scrambling to be the #10 team.
At that moment, Big XII could have invited both and also Cincinnati, gotten to 12 with 3 quality programs, and not left WVU so isolated.
As it turned out, Louisville went on to win a BCS bowl and the NCAA BB Championship.

When the ACC took Louisville instead of UConn to replace Maryland, was the motivation due to Louisville being a more desirable program thatn UConn ?
OR..... was it partly seem as a way of fore-closing the Big XII's expansion options, and possibly giving the ACC the upper hand over the Big XII,
if and when the Power 5 condense into the Power 4 ?

It appears that the ACC did a lot to stabilize their situation by grabbing Louisville and adopting a GOR....

If and when the Big XII GOR's expire, I wouldn't be surprised to see the SEC and PAC both go after the Oklahoma / Texas schools,
the B1G to make a renewed push for Notre Dame and have some discussions with Missouri, KU, KSU, and the ACC to invite UConn.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:46 pm 
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BePcr07 wrote:
lash wrote:
What if the Big 12 expanded with just one school and selected the University of Cincinnati and stop at 11 for now.

Texas
Oklahoma
Baylor
Oklahoma State
Kansas
Iowa State
Kansas State
Texas Tech
TCU
WVU
Cincinnati

Every Big 12 school would continue to play each other round robin. The conference would pick up a good requiting market in the state of Ohio and help WVU with travel with another school located in the EST zone.

It would create balance schedules of 5 home and 5 away football games which would improve SOS by reducing from 3 to 2 OOC games per year.

The Big 12 could come back latter for a 12th school such as BYU after a few years of working with 11 schools if a championship game were really necessary.


I think it would be great, but I dislike a 10 conference game schedule because I like OOC games (no more than 3 though). However, what I like about this idea is you get a true conference champion and, with only 2 OOC games, they'll have to make it count by eliminating any FCS OOC game. If they did that, I would like the 11 team conference idea.

Would I add Cincinnati at team #11? OF COURSE! BYU would be a nationally superior program, but they're is way too many issues with adding them and I very much dislike football-only members or all-sports-except-for-football-only members. I think schools should be all in or nothing (exception: sports like hockey, lacrosse, and soccer where only a fraction of schools actually participate.)

If the Big 12 expanded to 11 schools, It would be my assumption there would be no OOC FCS games.

Any power five conference school that schedules future FCS OOC games will not get much credit for winning these type of game regardless of the margin of victory and would be seriously hurt the school or a conference SOS by losing to a FCS school.

I see the trend for the power five schools to schedule within those circles and the Big 12 would only have to schedule two OOC games compared to the Big Ten or SEC having to schedule three OOC games.

Once the committee is in place to select the four playoff bids, the SOS is going to be much more important compared to the old BCS which used computers and coaches polls to select these BCS championship teams.

I like the idea of the Big 12 expanding with Cincinnati and stopping at 11.

It would create a lot of interest on which school would eventually get the 12 spot similar to how the Big Ten used this publicity until Nebraska was finally selected as its 12 member.

A championship game for example this year could keep Florida State out of the BCS championship game if the school has to face the a rematch of the U of Miami in the ACC championship game and a loss is very possible. It would be the same situation next year if the top four teams were be selected and Florida State would lose in the championship game of the ACC. Of course the argument could made that a win in a rematch would help push the school into the playoff. Do you really need this risk?

The Big 12 is a conference that did not rush into expansion to get back to 12 schools and has time to evaluate if 10, 11, or 12 with championship game is the better format for gaining access to the playoff.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:39 pm 
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lash wrote:
BePcr07 wrote:
lash wrote:
What if the Big 12 expanded with just one school and selected the University of Cincinnati and stop at 11 for now.

Texas
Oklahoma
Baylor
Oklahoma State
Kansas
Iowa State
Kansas State
Texas Tech
TCU
WVU
Cincinnati

Every Big 12 school would continue to play each other round robin. The conference would pick up a good requiting market in the state of Ohio and help WVU with travel with another school located in the EST zone.

It would create balance schedules of 5 home and 5 away football games which would improve SOS by reducing from 3 to 2 OOC games per year.

The Big 12 could come back latter for a 12th school such as BYU after a few years of working with 11 schools if a championship game were really necessary.


I think it would be great, but I dislike a 10 conference game schedule because I like OOC games (no more than 3 though). However, what I like about this idea is you get a true conference champion and, with only 2 OOC games, they'll have to make it count by eliminating any FCS OOC game. If they did that, I would like the 11 team conference idea.

Would I add Cincinnati at team #11? OF COURSE! BYU would be a nationally superior program, but they're is way too many issues with adding them and I very much dislike football-only members or all-sports-except-for-football-only members. I think schools should be all in or nothing (exception: sports like hockey, lacrosse, and soccer where only a fraction of schools actually participate.)

If the Big 12 expanded to 11 schools, It would be my assumption there would be no OOC FCS games.

Any power five conference school that schedules future FCS OOC games will not get much credit for winning these type of game regardless of the margin of victory and would be seriously hurt the school or a conference SOS by losing to a FCS school.

I see the trend for the power five schools to schedule within those circles and the Big 12 would only have to schedule two OOC games compared to the Big Ten or SEC having to schedule three OOC games.

Once the committee is in place to select the four playoff bids, the SOS is going to be much more important compared to the old BCS which used computers and coaches polls to select these BCS championship teams.

I like the idea of the Big 12 expanding with Cincinnati and stopping at 11.

It would create a lot of interest on which school would eventually get the 12 spot similar to how the Big Ten used this publicity until Nebraska was finally selected as its 12 member.

A championship game for example this year could keep Florida State out of the BCS championship game if the school has to face the a rematch of the U of Miami in the ACC championship game and a loss is very possible. It would be the same situation next year if the top four teams were be selected and Florida State would lose in the championship game of the ACC. Of course the argument could made that a win in a rematch would help push the school into the playoff. Do you really need this risk?

The Big 12 is a conference that did not rush into expansion to get back to 12 schools and has time to evaluate if 10, 11, or 12 with championship game is the better format for gaining access to the playoff.


I don't see a conference championship game as a bad thing. It has worked out very well for the SEC. To me the argument that it could cost you a shot in the title game, or a playoff, is the argument of the coward. If you are going to be a champion, you don't run from competition, you run to it. I don't want my team to back their way into the game because somebody else lost a conference championship game. I want my team to earn it on the field. If you think your team is the best in the country, you shouldn't be afraid to play against good competition, you should thrive on it. It is just another opportunity to go out and kick somebody's rear end. When I was a Gator fan I loved being in the SEC title game. If we won, it proved that we belonged in the discussion for a national championship. If we lost, it was a punch to the stomach, but it proved we didn't deserve a chance. Just to be clear, Lash, this wasn't a personal attack, I just hate the argument that a CCG opens up a chance to get beat. If you take the field with that mindset, you will get beat. Champions always expect to win, pretenders hope to win.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:29 am 
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It can be confidently said the B12 is not expanding anytime soon. What Bowlsby and the schools are displaying is a unified front, and it appears very controlled. It's convenience coupled with stabilizing securiy, even the perceptual parts aimed to be complentary to their GoR.

Texas just hired the ASU AD to be their new AD. Texas has issues with the fb & bb coaching situations, a potential lawsuit over the firing of the women's track and field coach, and the drama over the luring efforts for Nick Saban's services. The UT President has been on the hot seat. Board members such as the Hicks' are quite active with political power plays.
Such unsettling happens to all major schools at times; but Texas, with the most financial assets for athletics of any single school, impacts what may happen well beyond their campus.

Texas may take a new direction with leadership changes. Yet, the forces of power behind it all remain formidable. They want change that enhances athletic dominance, nor compromise it.

My projection is that the B12 shall change, and it may not be to grow. Texas heading to the PAC12 with OU and possibly a couple of others may eventually happen. The LHN may change enough that it doesn't become a major factor in detering a future transition. It's the PAC12 that could do the multiple accommodations best, if so desired.

I know Tkalmus is the resident, big Longhorns fan here, and he's more atuned to following the politics in Austin. But from an afar observation, there's got to me much more going on with Texas beyond whether or not Mac Brown keeps his job.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:42 am 
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sec03 wrote:
It can be confidently said the B12 is not expanding anytime soon. What Bowlsby and the schools are displaying is a unified front, and it appears very controlled. It's convenience coupled with stabilizing securiy, even the perceptual parts aimed to be complentary to their GoR.

Texas just hired the ASU AD to be their new AD. Texas has issues with the fb & bb coaching situations, a potential lawsuit over the firing of the women's track and field coach, and the drama over the luring efforts for Nick Saban's services. The UT President has been on the hot seat. Board members such as the Hicks' are quite active with political power plays.
Such unsettling happens to all major schools at times; but Texas, with the most financial assets for athletics of any single school, impacts what may happen well beyond their campus.

Texas may take a new direction with leadership changes. Yet, the forces of power behind it all remain formidable. They want change that enhances athletic dominance, nor compromise it.

My projection is that the B12 shall change, and it may not be to grow. Texas heading to the PAC12 with OU and possibly a couple of others may eventually happen. The LHN may change enough that it doesn't become a major factor in detering a future transition. It's the PAC12 that could do the multiple accommodations best, if so desired.

I know Tkalmus is the resident, big Longhorns fan here, and he's more atuned to following the politics in Austin. But from an afar observation, there's got to me much more going on with Texas beyond whether or not Mac Brown keeps his job.

Nailed it. Nice job.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:20 pm 
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hendu1976fl wrote:
lash wrote:
BePcr07 wrote:
lash wrote:
What if the Big 12 expanded with just one school and selected the University of Cincinnati and stop at 11 for now.

Texas
Oklahoma
Baylor
Oklahoma State
Kansas
Iowa State
Kansas State
Texas Tech
TCU
WVU
Cincinnati

Every Big 12 school would continue to play each other round robin. The conference would pick up a good requiting market in the state of Ohio and help WVU with travel with another school located in the EST zone.

It would create balance schedules of 5 home and 5 away football games which would improve SOS by reducing from 3 to 2 OOC games per year.

The Big 12 could come back latter for a 12th school such as BYU after a few years of working with 11 schools if a championship game were really necessary.


I think it would be great, but I dislike a 10 conference game schedule because I like OOC games (no more than 3 though). However, what I like about this idea is you get a true conference champion and, with only 2 OOC games, they'll have to make it count by eliminating any FCS OOC game. If they did that, I would like the 11 team conference idea.

Would I add Cincinnati at team #11? OF COURSE! BYU would be a nationally superior program, but they're is way too many issues with adding them and I very much dislike football-only members or all-sports-except-for-football-only members. I think schools should be all in or nothing (exception: sports like hockey, lacrosse, and soccer where only a fraction of schools actually participate.)

If the Big 12 expanded to 11 schools, It would be my assumption there would be no OOC FCS games.

Any power five conference school that schedules future FCS OOC games will not get much credit for winning these type of game regardless of the margin of victory and would be seriously hurt the school or a conference SOS by losing to a FCS school.

I see the trend for the power five schools to schedule within those circles and the Big 12 would only have to schedule two OOC games compared to the Big Ten or SEC having to schedule three OOC games.

Once the committee is in place to select the four playoff bids, the SOS is going to be much more important compared to the old BCS which used computers and coaches polls to select these BCS championship teams.

I like the idea of the Big 12 expanding with Cincinnati and stopping at 11.

It would create a lot of interest on which school would eventually get the 12 spot similar to how the Big Ten used this publicity until Nebraska was finally selected as its 12 member.

A championship game for example this year could keep Florida State out of the BCS championship game if the school has to face the a rematch of the U of Miami in the ACC championship game and a loss is very possible. It would be the same situation next year if the top four teams were be selected and Florida State would lose in the championship game of the ACC. Of course the argument could made that a win in a rematch would help push the school into the playoff. Do you really need this risk?

The Big 12 is a conference that did not rush into expansion to get back to 12 schools and has time to evaluate if 10, 11, or 12 with championship game is the better format for gaining access to the playoff.


I don't see a conference championship game as a bad thing. It has worked out very well for the SEC. To me the argument that it could cost you a shot in the title game, or a playoff, is the argument of the coward. If you are going to be a champion, you don't run from competition, you run to it. I don't want my team to back their way into the game because somebody else lost a conference championship game. I want my team to earn it on the field. If you think your team is the best in the country, you shouldn't be afraid to play against good competition, you should thrive on it. It is just another opportunity to go out and kick somebody's rear end. When I was a Gator fan I loved being in the SEC title game. If we won, it proved that we belonged in the discussion for a national championship. If we lost, it was a punch to the stomach, but it proved we didn't deserve a chance. Just to be clear, Lash, this wasn't a personal attack, I just hate the argument that a CCG opens up a chance to get beat. If you take the field with that mindset, you will get beat. Champions always expect to win, pretenders hope to win.

It is not that I am against a Conference Championship Football game and the additional competitive effort that goes with it, I see a different future for major college sports that replaces the current format of Conference Championship games.

I see a future of all major college conferences merged into one super conference. This conference will then have a full blown football playoff that incorporates the current conference championship games, all bowls and playoff games including the football championship game owned and managed by this super conference. This super conference will also replace and own the current NCAA run basketball and other varsity sports run by the NCAA will be taken over by this same super conference.

This super conference will include an estimated 80 schools and the revenue possibility of this super conference will dwarf the current revenue streams generated by current individual conference contracts including current conference TV networks. In fact these same conference TV networks will just become methods of distribution of this super conference college sports inventory.

Once there is a super conference in place and in control of all the major college revenue streams, we fans will finally see some regional divisions that help create a better and simple format for to follow and understand (i.e. NFL).

For example, the old Pac 8 could easily become one of the new eight team divisions of this new super conference. Or there could be four team divisions further splitting up the old Pac 8 into four team sub divisions such as having the California schools in one sub division and the Washington and Oregon schools in a sub division.

Regardless of the alignment by regions, this super conference is going to happen because there is simply too much money at risk to allow the NCAA to continue to operate in the current manner.

I could see this super conference aligned in eight or possibly ten divisions of 8 schools aligned regionally for football, basketball, and other Olympic type sports.

Once we have a super conference of all the power conference schools aligned into one organization, we will not longer need this conference football championship games. Or better stated they will be incorporated in a mega money making playoff to determine college football championship on the field of play.

This is why I do not get to concerned with the fact the Big 12 has to have a championship football game right now or that schools such as UConn and BYU will be left out in the cold because they will not assuming there is a commitment to playing major college sports.

I for one can not wait until the future gets here and we finally have regional rivalries again all leading into national playoff that determine football championship on the field of play.

The current format of a four team playoff and separate conference championship games are just baby steps to where we are heading.


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