NCAA Conference Realignment & Expansion Message Boards
NCAA Map

Discussions by Conference:
  It is currently Wed Sep 03, 2014 12:02 am

Help support CollegeSportsInfo.com by shopping

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 3129 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 193, 194, 195, 196, 197, 198, 199 ... 209  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:27 pm 
Offline
Sophomore
Sophomore

Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:01 pm
Posts: 59
sec03 wrote:
sec03 wrote:
The Bishin Cutter wrote:
Huan wrote:
my inclination is that both Mizzou and aTm are aberration this year due to
1. coming from being contenders in a strong Big 12 to equivalently competitive though more top dominated SEC
2. an off year for many SEC teams like Florida and Georgia, and even LSU


Whether both schools went 11-1 or 6-6, the fact that both went bowling (and this being aTm's second time doing so in two years as a SEC school) meant these schools added to the bowl revenue pot. Still, be it a tip-top SEC or a "down year," going bowling and being in the best FBS conference is something remarkable. It took more time for Arky and USC to do it when they joined something like 20+ years ago, and the SEC was not much back then.

Let's hope both WVU and TCU failing to make bowls this past season isn't a routine. TCU especially, since it didn't do much to push the reach of the conference.


Most years, every conference is going to have a few fb programs below par for them, as Huan indicated given Florida and Georgia as examples. Of course, Florida was the big letdown, and Georgia in pre-season was viewed as a national championship contender. UGA did have more than their usual share of injuries for the year.

I'll take Bishin Cutter's point even further. Some of the beforehand posts imply the SEC is 'over-hyped' and saturated with weak teams. "Over-hype" happens, and that is largely driven by TV marketing and a degree of regionalism where interest is higher. "Over-hype" is certainly not limited to the SEC when one factors in the focus given to Ohio State, Notre Dame, etc. And certainly a couple of schools in the B12 have been the beneficiaries of such.

For the "weak team" suggestion, I'll use the one fb program in the SEC that arguably get's disparaged the most and probably get's the least attention: Mississippi State. Mississippi State has gone to four straight bowls and won three of them. They clobbered Michigan in the 2010 Gator Bowl, and this year defeated CUSA Champion, Rice, in the Liberty Bowl by the largest margin of all bowl games for the season. MSU played in the title series in NCAA baseball this past season and has one of the best baseball facilities in the league and country. MSU is expanding their fb stadium to 61,000+, while during the 80s' and into the early 90s', Scott field held 35,000 or so.

OK, getting bowl games is not so difficult anymore. But a school has to produce at least six wins. And I would not suggest Mississippi State is a power program. They are not. Wins against real power programs, such as LSU and 'Bama, are very infrequent. MSU recruits are basically in-state (competing against Ole Miss and some stronger neighbors) and those the big power programs do not usually aggressively pursue. Mississippi State is not going to sustain themselves at the level of LSU and such, and the best MSU can expect is to have a couple of seasons a decade where they mount a serious challenge and get near or barely reach double digit wins. Being dominated by more powerful schools is relative, circumstantial, and certainly situational. Every major conference is going to have programs that dominate nearly every year, and all have programs that struggle just to be mediocre, but in context, much of the time. Miss. State plays and has the talent and depth level as if they are challenging for the CUSA title. For the SEC, it falls a bit short.

The question for the B12 is not how it compares to the SEC. The questions are, can the B12 make it better, and if so, do they want to? For the immediate future, the conference shows they do not intend to expand, so in their minds they have addressed those questions.


SEC I don't disagree with much of what you said. I think you are spot on with most of your analysis. However, I wouldn't say that Mississippi State competes with CUSA talent on the defensive side of the ball. Offensively they have always struggled to get top end talent. But their defense is usually pretty strong. I watched them play a couple of times this year and I couldn't get over how good their D-line looked. As a UCF fan I couldn't imagine what we could do with players like that, physically at least. 6'6 265 at the DE. We have never had players like that and we still do okay on that side of the ball. I believe that if MSU had a half way decent offense, they would be one of the top teams in the SEC.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:00 pm 
Offline
Sophomore
Sophomore

Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:01 pm
Posts: 59
The Bishin Cutter wrote:
Cincy and BYU are still the best programs available to the Big XII, even if they both don't help WVU. And if the Big XII does take them both (and it has to be both), not only does it cripple the "best of the leftovers" conference, it REALLY puts UConn in a bad place.


I will agree that Cincy is a better basketball program than UCF. There are probably 2 dozen high schools that are better Basketball programs than UCF. But I wouldn't say that Cincy is a better football program than UCF. With CUSA talent, we won the American Conference. UCF won a BCS game while Cincy was getting pounded by North Carolina. To the best of my knowledge Cincy has never won a BCS game.

We have seen how good Cincy can be with the BCS tag, how much better could UCF get with the same exposure?

That being said, I think Cincy is probably the best grab for the Big 12 right now. They make a good travel partner for WVU. And like I said, their BBall is light years beyond UCF. However, I think in the long run that either UCF or USF, if not both, might be a better option for the Big 12. I know I am going to catch heat for this, but I think the Big 12 should add 4 teams, staggered out over the next 8 years. Cincy, Memphis, UCF, and USF. Offer each school a partial share of the TV contracts, increasing each year until they reach a full share.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:05 am 
Offline
All-Star
All-Star

Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:41 am
Posts: 1078
Did anyone expect Cincinnati to win/share 4 Big East football titles? That was supposed to be all West Virginia and Louisville.

What happens next for USF and UCF, I don't know. But, can we recognize that they are where they are because of other programs' Florida recruiting needs and a means of keeping other schools out of certain conferences? USF had ZERO reason being in the Big East. They got in, not just to "replace Miami," but because the alternatives, Memphis and ECU, were such non-starters to schools like Louisville, Cincinnati, West Virginia, and others.

The AAC is now more about merit than it is old politics. Get USM in there, and it really is the best of the eastern non-major programs. I can't wait to see how it plays out on the field.

The above is why I hope that if the Big XII doesn't expand soon, we have some time to see how programs adjust to the loss of that cancerous bloc of northeastern schools, who's really to blame for all of the realignment stuff of the last twenty-plus years. It's kind of like hitting the reset button. Maybe when the Big XII decides to expand, be it later rather than sooner, more programs will legitimately have a chance to state their case for big conference inclusion, rather than the petty, subjective queue that emerged thanks to the Big East and decades of parochial snobbery and one-upmanship.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:43 pm 
Offline
All-Star
All-Star

Joined: Sat May 20, 2006 2:09 pm
Posts: 1541
hendu1976fl wrote:
SEC I don't disagree with much of what you said. I think you are spot on with most of your analysis. However, I wouldn't say that Mississippi State competes with CUSA talent on the defensive side of the ball. Offensively they have always struggled to get top end talent. But their defense is usually pretty strong. I watched them play a couple of times this year and I couldn't get over how good their D-line looked. As a UCF fan I couldn't imagine what we could do with players like that, physically at least. 6'6 265 at the DE. We have never had players like that and we still do okay on that side of the ball. I believe that if MSU had a half way decent offense, they would be one of the top teams in the SEC.


hendu1976fl, I stand corrected and thank you. I was trying to make a positive point about Mississippi State, and in qualifying it, I went a bit excessive on the negative when it came to the CUSA analogy. Mississippi State is one of my SEC favorites. Maybe some of my frustration got exposed because I am awaiting for them to beat one of the conference's really big guys lately. Concur, MSU usually does exhibit a strong defense. If their offensive line and kicking game improved, and their receivers step it up more, they really could get into the thick of things. They also need to work to diminish the number of penalties for particular games.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:55 pm 
Offline
All-Star
All-Star

Joined: Sat May 20, 2006 2:09 pm
Posts: 1541
The Bishin Cutter wrote:
What happens next for USF and UCF, I don't know. But, can we recognize that they are where they are because of other programs' Florida recruiting needs and a means of keeping other schools out of certain conferences? USF had ZERO reason being in the Big East. They got in, not just to "replace Miami," but because the alternatives, Memphis and ECU, were such non-starters to schools like Louisville, Cincinnati, West Virginia, and others.

Back in the day, I remember media reports right before USF was added to the old BE, that the BE was actually seriously considering UCF instead. It was reported that the newly arrived former CUSA schools to the BE told the conference at the time that USF was a better choice. Of course, those particular schools had the prior affiliation with USF.

Now, UCF is showing its stride very well.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 4:29 pm 
Offline
Freshman
Freshman

Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2013 8:24 pm
Posts: 22
Location: Richmond, VA
I would rather see UCF than Cincinnati in the big XII
Other being BYU. Sure the conference would be geographically disperse with BYU, ISU, WVU, and UCF but a geographic contiguous conference was lost when Nebraska and Missouri left, leaving ISU stranded, and then extenuated with WVU.
Might as well go BYU and UCF next.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:20 pm 
Offline
All-Star
All-Star
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:40 pm
Posts: 1431
http://mweb.cbssports.com/ncaaf/writer/ ... ooms-large

Dodd on the Big 12 analyst of benefits of not expanding including how great bball is.

_________________
Fan of the Big 12 Conference, the Mountain West Conference and...
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 5:33 pm 
Offline
Freshman
Freshman

Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:12 pm
Posts: 22
I would like to see the Big 12 vet expansion candidates by scheduling them in football.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:05 am 
Offline
All-Star
All-Star
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:40 pm
Posts: 1431
bigshotbob wrote:
I would like to see the Big 12 vet expansion candidates by scheduling them in football.

hi bigshotbob, welcome to the site.

Who specifically would you like to see?

I know SMU for example has scheduled Tech, Baylor, TCU, and A&M (while in Big 12 and in SEC) pretty regularly over the past few years (Texas refuses to pay them due to long exsisting bad blood made during the 80's scandal).

Houston played Okie St and Tech a few years back but is trying to mirror TCU's success in the MWC by not scheduling anybody OOC until they get their BCS bid or two but they have some games with Tech and Kansas starting in 2017.

Rice has played/will play Texas, A&M, Baylor, Okie St, Tech, and Kansas.

Cincy played OU a while back and has some history w/ WVU but nothing else is scheduled.

UConn played ISU and Baylor a while back and has some history w/ WVU but nothing else is scheduled.

Tulane hasn't played anyone in the Big 12 in a while.

Memphis has a series with Kansas coming up but other than that nothing.

BYU has some history with TCU, and has played OU and Texas (last game of the UT series is this year) recently but nothing else scheduled.

There are others that could be considered like Boise St (for fb only and only if they add BYU as fb only), Colorado St (only if they add BYU as full mbr), and UCF/USF but they seem like longshots at best.

My preference is either add UConn/Cincy as full members for best available all round sports adds, BYU/Boise as fb onlys if they literally only want a CCG, and Rice/Tulane for academic/destination adds (swap Rice for Memphis if they don't want another Texas school, better at bball/worse in academics)

_________________
Fan of the Big 12 Conference, the Mountain West Conference and...
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:35 am 
Offline
All-Star
All-Star
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2005 11:14 pm
Posts: 1011
Location: Ciales-Manatí-Bayamón, Puerto Rico
tkalmus wrote:
bigshotbob wrote:
I would like to see the Big 12 vet expansion candidates by scheduling them in football.

hi bigshotbob, welcome to the site.

Who specifically would you like to see?

I know SMU for example has scheduled Tech, Baylor, TCU, and A&M (while in Big 12 and in SEC) pretty regularly over the past few years (Texas refuses to pay them due to long exsisting bad blood made during the 80's scandal).

Houston played Okie St and Tech a few years back but is trying to mirror TCU's success in the MWC by not scheduling anybody OOC until they get their BCS bid or two but they have some games with Tech and Kansas starting in 2017.

Rice has played/will play Texas, A&M, Baylor, Okie St, Tech, and Kansas.

Cincy played OU a while back and has some history w/ WVU but nothing else is scheduled.

UConn played ISU and Baylor a while back and has some history w/ WVU but nothing else is scheduled.

Tulane hasn't played anyone in the Big 12 in a while.

Memphis has a series with Kansas coming up but other than that nothing.

BYU has some history with TCU, and has played OU and Texas (last game of the UT series is this year) recently but nothing else scheduled.

There are others that could be considered like Boise St (for fb only and only if they add BYU as fb only), Colorado St (only if they add BYU as full mbr), and UCF/USF but they seem like longshots at best.

My preference is either add UConn/Cincy as full members for best available all round sports adds, BYU/Boise as fb onlys if they literally only want a CCG, and Rice/Tulane for academic/destination adds (swap Rice for Memphis if they don't want another Texas school, better at bball/worse in academics)


tkalmus has a logic point when it comes to Big XII expansion discussion. But my key interest is which of those mentioned schools recently have success since and a bit before the additions of TCU and West Virginia within that span. At the same time, the Big 12 does need a bit old SWC flavor in terms of rivalries, at least in my view.

To me, only TCU was the most recent successful mid-major school within the South Central U.S. on football since the new millennium began and since the Horned Frogs left the now-defunct SWC and since the beginning of the MW (breaking off the then-longly expanded WAC-16). TCU had certain 10+ win seasons (with 9 total, including 2 unbeaten regular seasons (1 of them being unbeaten plus a bowl game win, but no national title share) and 8 conference titles (2 WAC, 1 C-USA and 5 MW) and a pair of BCS bowl bids).

In my opinion, nobody else who were formerly from C-USA and currently from the AAC (except the 2011 Houston Cougars team, who was close to bring a BCS bid for C-USA) has had any recent moderate success within that span.

Oh, by the way. Wasn't Kansas the team that beat Memphis on a men's basketball national title game a few years ago?

_________________
Florida State Seminoles fan for life (mostly on football, basketball and baseball)! 2013 ACC football Atlantic Division champions; 2013 ACC football regular season champions; 2013 ACC football conference bowl tournament champions; 2014 NCAA D-I FBS BCS national champions!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:34 pm 
Offline
Senior
Senior

Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 9:04 pm
Posts: 396
The impression the B12 renders is that there are no expansion candidates. At least what Bowlsby conveys publically, which is little on the matter, is that expansion is not planned nor being actively discussed. They apparently don't want any of Cincy, UConn, SMU, Rice, Tulane, UCF, USF, Houston, Memphis, CSU, UMN, etc. BYU could be included since nothing worked out there.
One can suppose they can change their minds in short order, but they have to find a convincing reason to push them to do so.
This conference is held together by a GoR. They appear confident they can get access to the playoff system with ten members.
If B12 is ultimately allowed to have a CCG without expanding, there may be even less motive to expand.
I believe the NCAA should stick with the minimum 12-member rule for CCGs. The reason being that other conferences expanded because of the rule, and may not have expanded otherwise if a CCG was permitted with less. With round-robins, re-matches are a given. Usually, that can give a game less luster.
I'd also prefer to see divisions limited to 8 members and conferences would max at 16. If there are requirements for the short end, then it would make sense to have long-end limits.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:55 pm 
Offline
All-Star
All-Star
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2005 11:14 pm
Posts: 1011
Location: Ciales-Manatí-Bayamón, Puerto Rico
louisvillecard01 wrote:
The impression the B12 renders is that there are no expansion candidates. At least what Bowlsby conveys publically, which is little on the matter, is that expansion is not planned nor being actively discussed. They apparently don't want any of Cincy, UConn, SMU, Rice, Tulane, UCF, USF, Houston, Memphis, CSU, UMN, etc. BYU could be included since nothing worked out there.
One can suppose they can change their minds in short order, but they have to find a convincing reason to push them to do so.
This conference is held together by a GoR. They appear confident they can get access to the playoff system with ten members.
If B12 is ultimately allowed to have a CCG without expanding, there may be even less motive to expand.
I believe the NCAA should stick with the minimum 12-member rule for CCGs. The reason being that other conferences expanded because of the rule, and may not have expanded otherwise if a CCG was permitted with less. With round-robins, re-matches are a given. Usually, that can give a game less luster.
I'd also prefer to see divisions limited to 8 members and conferences would max at 16. If there are requirements for the short end, then it would make sense to have long-end limits.


I would also wanna see a max limit of 16 members per conference and 8 on divisions within those conferences. But I doubt that it'll happen. However, why not have all conferences have 10 members, with a round-robin schedule, AND possibly have all weeks competing with no byes (since there's like 14 weeks, leaving space of non-conference games to 5)?

_________________
Florida State Seminoles fan for life (mostly on football, basketball and baseball)! 2013 ACC football Atlantic Division champions; 2013 ACC football regular season champions; 2013 ACC football conference bowl tournament champions; 2014 NCAA D-I FBS BCS national champions!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:36 pm 
Offline
Freshman
Freshman

Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:12 pm
Posts: 22
BYU and Cincinnati are my top two choices, but I would consider others. I would need at least 4-8 years of data to make a decision. I would not count games against Texas or Oklahoma as data. Basically, I want to study what happens when a Colorado State hosts an Iowa State.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:51 am 
Offline
All-Star
All-Star
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:40 pm
Posts: 1431
bigshotbob wrote:
BYU and Cincinnati are my top two choices, but I would consider others. I would need at least 4-8 years of data to make a decision. I would not count games against Texas or Oklahoma as data. Basically, I want to study what happens when a Colorado State hosts an Iowa State.

Well, both Texas and Oklahoma both lost to BYU, just FYI.

_________________
Fan of the Big 12 Conference, the Mountain West Conference and...
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:42 am 
Offline
Senior
Senior

Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:45 am
Posts: 202
tkalmus wrote:
Well, both Texas and Oklahoma both lost to BYU, just FYI.


I wonder - does that say more about the XII, Texas, and Oklahoma or more about BYU?


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 3129 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 193, 194, 195, 196, 197, 198, 199 ... 209  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
 

 




Looking for College Sports apparel? Support our partner:








Support Our Partners: Search Engine Marketing - Search Engine Optimization - Search Engine Training - Online Marketing for Restuarants

Subway Map Shirts - Food and Travel

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group