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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2014 11:07 am 
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ctx48c wrote:
Va Tech and Nc St could certainly go to the SEC.
Clemson and FSU could go to the B12
Ga Tech and UVA could go to the B10



What logical sense would it make for Clemson and FSU to leave the ACC (Two best FB teams) and go to the Big 12?
Why would Ga Tech and UVA go to the Big 10? Better yet, why would the Big 10 what either UVA or Ga Tech? (not the best teams in football or basketball on year in year out basis).
No way NCST ever leaves UNC. Not going to happen. I live in NC and UNC, DUKE and NCST are huge rivalries and no way these three break up.


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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2014 11:50 am 
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I live in Texas and there was no way Texas and Texas A&M would split until they did. Texas A&M found greener pastures where they weren't in a shadow. North Carolina St could very feel the same way.


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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2014 11:57 am 
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ctx48c wrote:
Va Tech and Nc St could certainly go to the SEC.
Clemson and FSU could go to the B12
Ga Tech and UVA could go to the B10

Indeed, those were some of the popular rumors during and on the heels of the last expansion. I don't doubt a few of those had exploratory discussions with other conferences. Of those, the B1G's dialogue with UVA and GT probably, comparatively, had the most substance. I can't see six ACC schools leaving and the B12 is one of the beneficiaries.

Some of the rumors were false, fueled from places such as in West Virginia. Clemson, perhaps, could have been an early departure to the SEC if they were wanted. Historically, they are not particularly tied to FSU. FSU was entertaining offers, but also grandstanding to influence the ACC to deliver more their way. Despite complaints about ACC power centers, Clemson is grounded in the ACC, and they show no signs of not being committed. They have good, close, and long-term rivalries in the conference. Dwelling in ACC and SEC country, I observe first-hand Clemson's rabid fans and sentiments, and they, including their boosters, would have gone nuts if their administration said the school was leaving for the B12 at the time. Local sports media understood that. Their board would never approve if such ever got to that level. They'd all be tossed and the decision reversed. There's no Maryland apathy with them. The Clemson President and AD gave denials at the time about as firm as it could get. Beyond that, they were not the slightest complimentary of what the B12 could offer them or even entertained the question. It would take several quality ACC schools to leave before Clemson would even try to go elsewhere (excluding maybe the SEC which does not want another SC school).

Regarding those NC 4 schools never having one to break? That could be the catalyst for the ACC actually breaking. Some are frankly tired of that block with excessive political and economic control. It may not be all about what they do, but what others outside do. As UNC may be the the kingpin of it all that is ACC, read those "UNC Emails" on the heels of the Maryland departure. They were very worried.

As BePcr07 above just expressed, it used to be inconceivable that Texas and Texas A&M would have split. These are not the conferences of twenty or even fifteen years ago. Long-time and close rivalries have been broken. Markets, TV, and governance are forcing big changes. The B1G took Rutgers. That was not about the impressionable love of Rutgers bb or the expectation that Rutgers fb was going to deliver the B1G a string of national championships.


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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2014 1:25 pm 
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Re: Clemson and FSU and the B12...neither schools' renouncements stated the ACC's money being better. Clemson turned the idea down based on culture, academics, and identity. FSU turned the idea away on travel and identity. Big XII stability was the other non-starter.

Clemson sounded like their fans would have turned their backs on them from a booster perspective. FSU sounded more like academic spin.

I don't know how many times schools can do that to its fans and other stakeholders. If there aren't any foreseeable changes in athletics spending or institutional funding methods or models, walking away from millions of dollars may become less acceptable than others have previously been able to get away with. I don't blame FSU and Clemson from turning down the Big XII when they did, though. I still don't think they're stable out there. But, it needs to be remembered that both schools walked away from a table that had more money on it.


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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2014 1:34 pm 
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As stated before UNC is not going anywhere. I'm sorry but Texas vs A&M is not the same rivialry as UNC/ DUKE (basketball).


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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2014 2:33 pm 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
Re: Clemson and FSU and the B12...neither schools' renouncements stated the ACC's money being better.

It wasn't better. They couldn't make that claim. But factoring in all the tier distributions and what the B12 was counting in their figures, the differences were not that profound to prompt anyone to leave for the B12. There were comments about that. Had the ACC really busted a few years back, and the B12 was not further extracted, I could see whereby a group of ACC schools, not offered by the B1G or the SEC, could have joined up with the B12. That didn't happen of course. Had it been Delany/B1G, that accepted non-AAU and geographically removed FSU, perhaps there could have been a chain reaction. FSU and Maryland were the two whereby the level of revenue intake and the debt at the time were big concerns.


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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2014 9:51 am 
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sec03 wrote:
The Bishin Cutter wrote:
Re: Clemson and FSU and the B12...neither schools' renouncements stated the ACC's money being better.

It wasn't better. They couldn't make that claim. But factoring in all the tier distributions and what the B12 was counting in their figures, the differences were not that profound to prompt anyone to leave for the B12. There were comments about that.


I just wish someone would have done more digging around on FSU during that to see if there were any numbers tossed around in emails or something. The way Barron spun it for FSU, it sounded like *he* had metrics the other conferences had to match or exceed to make it worth *his* while. What were those magic numbers? How much different were the two amounts?

Much has changed since that whole thing, and I can't say it's gotten better for the ACC (FSU putting them back into football relevancy cuts two ways for that conference), and one ruling on CCGs might make the Big XII content for the remainder of their GoR/media deal (no look-in window opt-outs). Costs are going to go up...and FSU is still going to have a hurting athletic budget. Is the ACC still worth it? Was it ever?

Were this real estate, FSU built its mansion in a development of shotgun shacks. Their mansion doesn't keep value, and the shacks get richer from it. But FSU really feels it deserves the biggest mansion...


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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2014 10:09 am 
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Will the GOR really hold after UMD and the ACC tangle?

Is the ACC that great in terms of tv funding that UVA and GA Tech would no go to the B10.?

Would Va Tech and Nc St not accept an offer from the SEC?

Then do where does Clemson and FSU go?
Try to rebuild the ACC with the likes UConn,Cinn,SFLA,CFLA or do they go the b12 with ND?


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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2014 1:22 pm 
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There may be several reasons why a couple of major conferences are not going to count scheduled games with BYU as meeting an OOC power-conference opponent.
One, that didn't get mentioned, is that the existing power conferences don't want to add anybody else right now to their elite grouping of 65. The more added, particularly an independent with complications, may increase the difficulty of the power 5 enacting certain agendas as well as avoiding making a new acknowledgement where a new domain of strength may lie.
Part of the reason the Big 12 may not want to expand with BYU or some others, is that some of the members, Texas among them particularly, want future options kept open. The ACC may want the Big 12 viewed as the more vulnerable conference in any new expansion push. If the Big 12 adds a couple of decent new members such as BYU and UCF, the B12 could perceptually be regarded as enhancing their long-term security and all their current members fully intend to stay. And if the ACC had to replace more of their own in a future expansion drive, they don't want the B12 having their potential replacement schools beforehand (i. e. Cincy and such).
The ACC's big challenge is if they can keep a close enough pace with the money flow to keep some key schools relatively happy.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:11 pm 
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here's a few things the Big 12 could do in the next 10 years to maximize profit...

1. Have an official 2 game series with BYU every year (1 home, 1 away).
2. At least one Big XII school plays Notre Dame each year.
3. Lift the ban on playing Nebraska, Missouri, A&M, Colorado.
4. The non-Texas based schools should always play 1-2 of: Houston, SMU, Rice, UTEP home and away for recruiting and to keep those schools down by beating them.
5. Play New Mexico and Colorado State more often.
6. Play Tulane at their new stadium (2015 I think?) just to put your toe in the Louisiana recruiting waters.
7. Try to play Big Ten Western Division teams more and absolutely pummel them. Think of a Baylor beating a Purdue by 56 every year.
8. Get another bowl game with the SEC. (something like BXII #8 vs. SEC #10) It's a cheap way to beat them, but it counts.
9. Prevent Kansas from scheduling power conference teams. They need 3 wins to start if they are going 2-10 every year.
10. Play Boise State more often.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 11:28 am 
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Article from Oklahoman with comments from OU AND OSU AD's regarding Big 12 membership situation at http://newsok.com/changes-in-college-at ... le/4888985


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 3:46 pm 
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It's good to be P5. Bad not to be.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 4:05 pm 
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westwolf wrote:
It's good to be P5. Bad not to be.


Are you saying that just because the Big XII will stay at 10 like forever? Just wondering.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 1:34 am 
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sec03 wrote:
There may be several reasons why a couple of major conferences are not going to count scheduled games with BYU as meeting an OOC power-conference opponent.
One, that didn't get mentioned, is that the existing power conferences don't want to add anybody else right now to their elite grouping of 65. The more added, particularly an independent with complications, may increase the difficulty of the power 5 enacting certain agendas as well as avoiding making a new acknowledgement where a new domain of strength may lie.

Ding ding ding

Here are the goals.

Autonomy (almost there)

Settle lawsuits/pay for play/unions (just getting started)

Realign to super conference (PAC+4, SEC+2, B1G+2, ACC+at least 2) and make ND join or risk being cut off while crippling the Big12. Likely the only "expansion" will come from the ACC as they are healthy enough to lose a few members and maintain there status as a power conference as they have suitable power conference level schools ready to replace like UConn, Cincy, and WVU. But this realignment is mainly to limit the access to the new system from schools Baylor, TCU, K State, and ISU rather than give power to UConn/Cincy (who aren't much better but happen to be in better geographical areas that are under served in elite college sports).

Separate from the rest of the non power leagues in major sports (fb, m/w bb, sb/bsb, vb, soccer, and eventually LAX) basically anything that could get TV money (ice hockey likely will never as only the B1G and a few other power schools sponsor and the sports is likely too regional).

Renegotiate all TV deals and post season deals for NFL type money. While this won't included tier 3 (as those channels are owned and split between ESPN/FOX), it could included pooling tier 1 and/tier 2 rights for the power 4.

Profit. We may see the creation of an AAU/CIC type organization evolve around power schools as a way of propping each other up. We could see hockey expand to many schools if it becomes more popular and then included that deal separately once it gets enough traction. Splitting from the NCAA all together may be possible as poaching star athletes from non power schools of any level could eventually be just another part of recruiting, like JUCOs on steroids...did your star QB tear his ACL in spring practices? Well UCF, Fresno, UDel or Hillsdale has a stud QB getting looks from NFL scouts. So call him up and ask him if he wants to play in the power division, he can be your starter in the fall. Imagine how good basketball could be if the stars could transfer into the power league each year?

The drawbacks. You sacrifice the purity/magic of collegiate sports. No more FCS team upsetting a power school, or a Boise State rising from no where to become a household name. The bball tourney will have no more Cinderellas or out of nowhere bracket busters, or crazy things like Dallas Baptist making the College World Series. You get a professional Jr version of the NFL/NBA/MLB, and while some see college sports as such, many of us see it as something more.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 4:36 pm 
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Yep, tkalmus, good points there.

It could be radical change over not so many years. The power group shall move from scholarships to comprehensive cost-of-living packages plus healthy stipends--they won't call it salaries yet. It'll evolve into all-sports and they'll have to keep the title IX commitments. What's extra for players of fb and bb, they'll find reasons to supplement, perhaps some formula related to revenue generation.
There will be a few major schools dropping out/down due to not having the revenue to maintain such extensive packages for all their scholarship athletes. Those with big ambitions to move up shall have more incentives for second thoughts based on the inability to find stable funds for it.
The major schools are expecting TV shall pay for all this plus gain bigger profits.
There's going to be many bumps in the road, and agree, lawsuits on this are coming along with congressional inquiries.
I read a report yesterday whereby the B1G and PAC12 are 'teaming' on this matter and it is not necessarily different than what the SEC is pushing.
Whatever the case, they are heading down the river of no return.

Personally, I certainly believe some significant measures of reform are very much needed. I don't like the hard exclusionary approaches though. Individual colleges and universities change as to growth and lack of, and funding, demographics, curriculums, etc. change. Cutting off opportunities for others to reasonably advance is not collegial to say the least.

More professionalizing in major college sports is the future. Shall we see one day in the not so distant future whereby there are private owners that carry a university's name?


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