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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:15 am 
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Moz, I don't think it has to be as aggressive or as intimidating as that, ala Wal-Mart and the "deal with us or we'll make you irrelevant" tactic. I think it's as logical as Texas' and these other schools' future scheduling commitments and the challenges of scheduling two or three schools with any sort of regularity. Any sort of disruption to all of these schools makes them potential allies to one another.

And what happens if Texas and Oklahoma are split again, and R3 becomes a non-conference game again? Assuming any split is done on decent enough terms to keep this game a fixture on both schools' schedules?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 2:52 pm 
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OU being a part of the old Big 8 maybe still hangs in their mind. That awesome rivalry with Nebraska, when both were consistently excellent, plus the OOC RRR with Texas, was part of the good ole days. In a nostalgic way, the OU-UT games had an added flare when they didn't have so many common opponents.
When Arkansas left the SWC, one wonders what could have been had the Texas-4 not joined up with the Big 8? The Big 8 lost its nifty grouping and divisions unfolded, and influence and power shifted considerably to the Lone Star state. In today's mindset about expansion, the SWC could have been all in Florida and elsewhere. Oh well, what could have been all impacted by timing.

Not expressing fault, multiple indicators suggest Oklahoma and Texas don't see eye to eye about expansion. They see value in each other's strength, but each in the past, have displayed a willingness to independently negotiate possibilities. The advent of the LHN, for example, was not 'collective'----beyond UT and ESPN.

Here's a few things I would like to see happen, and I am trying to say this in the form of a pro-Big 12 view, assuming the conference remains intact and formidable:

*Transition the LHN into a Big 12 Network. Come on, at best it's essentially third tier programming based on only ONE University. ESPN and Texas need to re-negotiate this and become inclusive of all members. Perhaps Texas could continue to garner the greater sum based on appeal and being the original, sole benefactor, but a B12 Network would help all involved if they are thinking long-term durability. It's tricky, given the contract with Fox. But Texas by accommodating some measure of sharing, would perhaps be extending their added and unique revenue flow by compromising on independent profiting if the B12 Network developed. This is certainly a project Bowlsby could embrace if his mind and energy drifts in that direction.

*Find two more schools soon. Make the Big 12 reflect their name. Pick the best two in terms of pondering size, markets, facilities, and attendance. BYU and UCF could deliver with this. It's not pretty geographically, and maybe the B12 could fill-in with a couple more later. I think those two want to be in the the B12 AND would stay for the long-term. (Forget expanding with ACC schools, the B1G and the SEC would have to dig deep there for such to happen. They too have a GoR.)

*I know some will not like it, but go to two divisions with expansion, and drop to eight conference games with a minimum of one OOC P5 game per each. This sound SECish and ACCish, but it could have a broadening effect, and some of those old rivalries would have more scheduling space to renew; i. e. Texas-T A&M, Mizzou-Kansas, more of WVU-Pitt, etc. Do what's best for the sport and fans, not bruised administrator egos. If two schools hate each other, even a better reason to play. Maximize inter-conference (P5 play). Showdowns in bb are popular.

*The conference has to develop better messaging. Texas may impede some things, as do others, in perceived self-interest. I don't believe Texas dictates to all/most conference schools as puppets, as the view is out there. I've seen some comments from Texas Tech officials sounding very different from the line delivered by the Longhorns. On the CCG idea, I saw views from Okie State that were unparalleled to comments made by OU. I do believe OU, Texas, and Kansas know they would have other P5 options out there whenever the opportunity affords them to depart the B12. A few others may hope to be coattails if such happened. Three or four of them know the B12 is their only future P5 option. With members seeing this as a 'conference of convenience' more-so than pride and passion, their commissioner needs to offer up a message beyond "one true champion' rhetoric. Get in sync, being different and less, does not necessarily mean being better in perception.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 4:50 pm 
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sec03 wrote:
Three or four of them know the B12 is their only future P5 option. With members seeing this as a 'conference of convenience' more-so than pride and passion, their commissioner needs to offer up a message beyond "one true champion' rhetoric. Get in sync, being different and less, does not necessarily mean being better in perception.



'conference of convenience'?
And just which one of the schools are you accusing of that?

I understand that everyone hates the LHN. I get that. Please remember that it was originally an aTm idea...that after including Texas....they pulled out of. They really shouldn't have given up...but, they did. Even though it ended up working out just like aTm wanted.
Anyway, ... you can't tell TV networks what works best for themselves. As everyone knows...when TV execs decide to dump a show or channel...it's gone. If the LHN isn't doing well....it will be gone soon enough.

Regarding a Big 12 network...Why isn't the conference fielding offers for a network? Am I missing something? Are any network execs interested in offering a deal?
If there isn't enough cache in the Big 12 to draw offers for a network....then the current schools need to work harder to build more 'cache'. It's hard for me to believe that Texas has more cache than the conference as a whole??

If the schools aren't patient enough to fix their own cache problems, ....then, maybe they could fix that with expansion??

Baylor and TCU sure upped their level of cache lately.
OSU and Tech have made quality strides, even though their records haven't always shown it.
Kansas and Iowa St are always relevant in bb.
There are still quite a few holes in the National presence of some fb programs.

I really don't see an unfixable problem. Many of the Big 12's issues have worked themselves out with the defections.
The issue of best two schools should be in the CCG...is probably still an issue with division play. That seemed to always be a sticking point when on division was stronger than another. It could hold things up until it gets figured out. They were still fixing similar issues, as of last season...with the tie breaker stuff.

RE: Expansion
Feeling that the first priority is the WVU issue....I would like to know who WVU is voting for as their link to the rest of the conference?
If the conference is going to address this issue...they will surely ask WVU's opinion on the subject.

Also, I feel Notre Dame should be put back on the list. ND would certainly pull some of the perceived power away from the ALMIGHTY longhorns. ND also has the best following in the nation.
Would WVU be intrigued by ND and Cincy?
I think Texas would like ND.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 5:25 pm 
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sec03 wrote:
OU being a part of the old Big 8 maybe still hangs in their mind. That awesome rivalry with Nebraska, when both were consistently excellent, plus the OOC RRR with Texas, was part of the good ole days. In a nostalgic way, the OU-UT games had an added flare when they didn't have so many common opponents.
When Arkansas left the SWC, one wonders what could have been had the Texas-4 not joined up with the Big 8? The Big 8 lost its nifty grouping and divisions unfolded, and influence and power shifted considerably to the Lone Star state. In today's mindset about expansion, the SWC could have been all in Florida and elsewhere. Oh well, what could have been all impacted by timing.

Not expressing fault, multiple indicators suggest Oklahoma and Texas don't see eye to eye about expansion. They see value in each other's strength, but each in the past, have displayed a willingness to independently negotiate possibilities. The advent of the LHN, for example, was not 'collective'----beyond UT and ESPN.

Here's a few things I would like to see happen, and I am trying to say this in the form of a pro-Big 12 view, assuming the conference remains intact and formidable:

*Transition the LHN into a Big 12 Network. Come on, at best it's essentially third tier programming based on only ONE University. ESPN and Texas need to re-negotiate this and become inclusive of all members. Perhaps Texas could continue to garner the greater sum based on appeal and being the original, sole benefactor, but a B12 Network would help all involved if they are thinking long-term durability. It's tricky, given the contract with Fox. But Texas by accommodating some measure of sharing, would perhaps be extending their added and unique revenue flow by compromising on independent profiting if the B12 Network developed. This is certainly a project Bowlsby could embrace if his mind and energy drifts in that direction.

*Find two more schools soon. Make the Big 12 reflect their name. Pick the best two in terms of pondering size, markets, facilities, and attendance. BYU and UCF could deliver with this. It's not pretty geographically, and maybe the B12 could fill-in with a couple more later. I think those two want to be in the the B12 AND would stay for the long-term. (Forget expanding with ACC schools, the B1G and the SEC would have to dig deep there for such to happen. They too have a GoR.)

*I know some will not like it, but go to two divisions with expansion, and drop to eight conference games with a minimum of one OOC P5 game per each. This sound SECish and ACCish, but it could have a broadening effect, and some of those old rivalries would have more scheduling space to renew; i. e. Texas-T A&M, Mizzou-Kansas, more of WVU-Pitt, etc. Do what's best for the sport and fans, not bruised administrator egos. If two schools hate each other, even a better reason to play. Maximize inter-conference (P5 play). Showdowns in bb are popular.

*The conference has to develop better messaging. Texas may impede some things, as do others, in perceived self-interest. I don't believe Texas dictates to all/most conference schools as puppets, as the view is out there. I've seen some comments from Texas Tech officials sounding very different from the line delivered by the Longhorns. On the CCG idea, I saw views from Okie State that were unparalleled to comments made by OU. I do believe OU, Texas, and Kansas know they would have other P5 options out there whenever the opportunity affords them to depart the B12. A few others may hope to be coattails if such happened. Three or four of them know the B12 is their only future P5 option. With members seeing this as a 'conference of convenience' more-so than pride and passion, their commissioner needs to offer up a message beyond "one true champion' rhetoric. Get in sync, being different and less, does not necessarily mean being better in perception.


I agree with most of what you're saying. With no offense intended to Mozilla, the Longhorn Network needs to be transitioned into a network for the whole conference. The league will not be stable and be able to compete financially with the other Power 5 Leagues unless they are bundling their Tier 3 rights.

The Big 12 also missed the ball with expansion. They needed to expand to 12 when Louisville was still an option. A northern division with WVU, Cincinnati, Louisville, Iowa St, Kansas, & Kansas St would have been geographically sound and competitive. I think he best available model they could have had is no longer an option. I would try and test the resolve of the ACC to see if they can pry away the league's best programs. If that fails look to Cincinnati and UCF to meet the NCAA minimum. I think it's a wise investment in the future.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:39 pm 
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Oklahoma clearly is unhappy with the status quo in the Big 12. Does anyone think the Sooners have enough clout to get another Power 5 Conference to pick them up independent of Texas? Or could their desire to leave for Texas to go with them?

Pac 12--they said no a Pac 14 with Oklahoma schools but could they reconsider? Maybe they could force Texas to move if the Pac 12 made overtures that they would expand with Tech/Baylor/TCU if Texas refused?

SEC--Oklahoma's addition to the SEC West would make that division even more brutal but I'm guessing that the SEC could find someone willing to be #16.

Big Ten--what if they brought in Oklahoma and Missouri for a Big 8 reunion with Nebraska? It adds some much needed depth to the West Division as well as some nice markets and a true cfb blue blood.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:47 pm 
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I respect y'alls right to chose the option to fold the whole conference into something that is one universities. Unfortunately, that option doesn't resolve the issue of cache for the conference.

If the Big 12(10-UT=9) aren't worth the attention of any network...then there is still a huge problem for all involved. UT shouldn't be expected to support a whole conference. No school should be.

The LHN only shows one or two fb games a year. Why so much fuss over a network that shows so few games??


It's really convenient to say...Let's stuff team x and team y into the conference.
But, this is a conference that has had issues with everyone agreeing and getting along. So, it might take longer than is expected.

I still think WVU has the first say in who joins. Are Y'all certain that WVU wants Cincy or UCF? Why not Notre Dame? ND is much better than either of those two options.
And, I don't see the conference adding a school to help cut down WVU's travel.....just to turn around and add a school just as far away for everyone else. I know UCF has some really good attributes...but, distance-wise...I just can't see it. UT and OU already recruit Florida.

BYU isn't getting in for the same reasons they aren't getting into the Pac 12.

Anyway...I have now changed my vote from Cincy and Tulane....to Notre Dame and Cincy. As long as WVU doesn't freak out. ND and Cincy is better than Louisville and Cincy.

I think the Big 12 will eventually expand. When all the schools can agree on who and when.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:06 pm 
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Holdup: Texas, Baylor, and Kansas
Pro expansion needs one to flip


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:58 pm 
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mozilla wrote:
I respect y'alls right to chose the option to fold the whole conference into something that is one universities. Unfortunately, that option doesn't resolve the issue of cache for the conference.

If the Big 12(10-UT=9) aren't worth the attention of any network...then there is still a huge problem for all involved. UT shouldn't be expected to support a whole conference. No school should be.

The LHN only shows one or two fb games a year. Why so much fuss over a network that shows so few games??


It's really convenient to say...Let's stuff team x and team y into the conference.
But, this is a conference that has had issues with everyone agreeing and getting along. So, it might take longer than is expected.

I still think WVU has the first say in who joins. Are Y'all certain that WVU wants Cincy or UCF? Why not Notre Dame? ND is much better than either of those two options.
And, I don't see the conference adding a school to help cut down WVU's travel.....just to turn around and add a school just as far away for everyone else. I know UCF has some really good attributes...but, distance-wise...I just can't see it. UT and OU already recruit Florida.

BYU isn't getting in for the same reasons they aren't getting into the Pac 12.

Anyway...I have now changed my vote from Cincy and Tulane....to Notre Dame and Cincy. As long as WVU doesn't freak out. ND and Cincy is better than Louisville and Cincy.

I think the Big 12 will eventually expand. When all the schools can agree on who and when.

Notre Dame isn't joining the Big 12 unless if they can bring about half the ACC with them. The ACC gives Notre Dame access to the parts of the country Notre Dame values, especially the Northeast. The ACC covers the Mid-Atlantic and Southeast, and Notre Dame covers the Midwest playing at home.


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