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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 9:03 pm 
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Boren has been OU President for over 20 years. He will probably soon retire. He is the former Governor and U.S. Senator. He attended Yale and Oxford and is a lawyer himself. Nobody in that room comes close to his credentials. He will speak his mind. What's Bowlsby going to do about it? Check with the Texas staff and boosters?


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 1:10 pm 
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Guess its on to May for the next updates on Big 12 expansion, football championship game, and Big 12 network.

http://sportsday.dallasnews.com/college ... tv-network

At the very least the conference has hired a consulting firm and is doing a deep dive to determine next steps which is not necessarily bad for expansion junkies.

Perrin of Texas needs a reality check. Sure Texas still looks at the LHN as a postive because the schools gets paid 15 million years regardless if anyone watches the LHN or the network makes a profit.

The key is how ESPN views the LHN which has to be something less than positive unless ESPN is in the charity business.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 1:48 pm 
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Well, I'm not with a research firm like the one that the Big 12 is hiring but as an accountant I can say the the only way to dramatically improve the Big 12s financial situation is to add better members. This simply isn't a conference that fields a bunch of teams that people want to see at a nationally tevevised level. This conference is on a trajectory to unravel like the Big East did and much of its membership will be relegated to 2nd tier status. If I'm Iowa St, Kansas St, Baylor, TCU, and Oklahoma St I'm already starting to formulate my "when crap hits the fan" strategy. That means either aligning with elements of the American or elements of the MWC.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 2:39 pm 
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I agree with Muskie. If I'm the schools he lists, I'm talking to another power conference about potential membership first. Better to see if an option exists in another power conference before settling for the next tier i.e. the American or Mountain West. TCU, OkSt and KanSt could bring some value (emphasis on COULD) based on recent success, so I could see a scenario when the Pac would take them on (thus getting into DFW), but they would have to be proactive about things. Status quo sends them out of P5 into the next tier down.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 7:36 pm 
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This is what Boren got in exchange for his silence:
The. Conference hiring consultants to analyze the finances of a championship game, expansion, and conference network


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 9:30 am 
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lash wrote:
Guess its on to May for the next updates on Big 12 expansion, football championship game, and Big 12 network.

http://sportsday.dallasnews.com/college ... tv-network" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

At the very least the conference has hired a consulting firm and is doing a deep dive to determine next steps which is not necessarily bad for expansion junkies.

Perrin of Texas needs a reality check. Sure Texas still looks at the LHN as a postive because the schools gets paid 15 million years regardless if anyone watches the LHN or the network makes a profit.

The key is how ESPN views the LHN which has to be something less than positive unless ESPN is in the charity business.

Guys relax, if anyone is really wanting to see the Big 12 expand, this is the best news to come out of the league in many months.

Real conferences or power leagues do not toss a few school names onto a board and vote for expansion.

There are all kinds of financial data that has to be considered and discussing expanding with 2 or 4 schools per this article is consistent with what has been rumored out there for weeks by the media.

There are other items to consider including going to 8 game conference schedule from 9 which takes time to analyse to make a decision.

Boren made his points and now the league must take the necessary steps to ensure the right long term decisions are made.

The Big Ten and Pac 12 all used consulting firms with their last expansion exercises resulting in actions taken.

Deep dives is a good term we used for years in corporate American to get to the bottom and decide on the best options to make decisions.

For the first time in the last couple years, I am very optimistic the Big 12 may actually expand and could expand to 14 schools, bring back the CCG, and begin planning stages for launching the Big 12 network.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 1:12 pm 
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I agree

The consultants can also contact prospective schools and not have the big xii directly involved


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 4:26 pm 
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Huan wrote:
I agree

The consultants can also contact prospective schools and not have the big xii directly involved


I get going the consultant route. It gives the Big 12 member schools a degree of plausibility in the event that a school thinks they were promised something that the Big 12 reneged on. Another advantage is is that some of the things I've proposed involving conspiring with the SEC and Big Ten to dismantle the ACC are of some dubious legal nature.

It just seems a little late to go to a consulting firm to a consulting firm to get the analytics but they could ha gotten this done years ago and they probably would have said Louisville and Cincinnati but they were late to that dance.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 10:51 pm 
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I wonder if Boren's the kind of guy, who at this point of his life/career, loves himself too much and does something nuts with Oklahoma if he doesn't get his way with these requests/demands, like severing R3 by going elsewhere. Heck, if the bowtie guy can do it in College Station, why can't the Yaley?

I doubt it comes to that, though. Cincinnati pretty much outed themselves as on the doorstep by pooching a FoIA request. So, when is their presser?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 12:15 am 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
I wonder if Boren's the kind of guy, who at this point of his life/career, loves himself too much and does something nuts with Oklahoma if he doesn't get his way with these requests/demands, like severing R3 by going elsewhere. Heck, if the bowtie guy can do it in College Station, why can't the Yaley?

I doubt it comes to that, though. Cincinnati pretty much outed themselves as on the doorstep by pooching a FoIA request. So, when is their presser?

I definitely think Cincinnati is close or a done deal.

There have always been reliable sources the Big 12 can not decide if they want to expand with 12 or 14. This is why a consulting firm is necessary to provide unbiased analysis especially on financials on benefits of 12 or 14 schools. There are probably trade offs on short term losses verses long term benefits especially with the creation of a Big 12 network.

Consulting firms play a big part in the deep dive procedures to help facilitate and capture data.

Everyone assumes the Presidents and Athletic Directors are sitting around just waiting for something to do including figuring out what or not to do with expansion, CCG, etc. These guys have day jobs that run multi million dollar athletic programs and oversee major state universities with thousands of employees.

Consulting firms provide the additional manpower to help move these type of decisions to closure.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 11:49 am 
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The Bishin Cutter,
Good to see your post after a bit of a lull in expansion talk outside the B12. You have a unique and entertaining way in critiquing personalities in these processes.

The B12 certainly does have money to employ two major consulting firms, as noted a few days ago in one of Freaked's posts: (from the Austin American-Stateman by Kirk Bohls). This is key:

"The league has hired Navigate Research, a Chicago-based company that counts among its clients 12 universities, including Baylor, as well as eight NFL teams. It has also contracted with BHV, a New York City-based firm that has clients like the University of Texas, the Texas Rangers, Notre Dame, the Houston Rockets and the Rose Bowl."

My take now, is that Boren may have gotten movement toward what he wanted without it looking like he got what he wanted. In return, he and others have agreed not to yap (doing complaints and leaks) so much about it.

I believe the big-time consulting firms, both already connected to a couple or more of B12 schools, are being used as much about blanket cover as it is about collecting data. Celestial forbid if Bowlsby would have to generate some elbow grease in this regard.

The consulting firms could give political cover to Texas and others in changing or adjusting their minds on expansion. It gives promise to Oklahoma and like-minded to keep expansion, a CCG, and explore a network as near-future options. If the consulting firms recommend against expansion, then the claim can be advanced that it was professionally studied by outside groups, and thus, supports the status quo essentially. Most importantly, if expansion happens, it can be used to diminish direct anger at the B12 from the G5 schools who tried so hard to get accepted, but were rejected. If Houston is not picked, for example, it could help serve to deflect the frustrations of some Texas politicians supportive of UH.

Lash, your remark about Cincy holds true. They can't speak about closing the geographic gap with WVU without including Cincy. Cincy is dealing with this as if there's some confidence. UCF/USF are barking for notice. UConn has received attention as well.

Maybe the consulting firms will prove very valuable. There are some nuance differences among some of the alleged G5 prospects. They all have some measure of baggage, and each of the prime ones have positive attributes. Hopefully, the two firms will be thorough, objective, timely, and impressive with their findings.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:18 pm 
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sec03 wrote:
The Bishin Cutter,
Good to see your post after a bit of a lull in expansion talk outside the B12. You have a unique and entertaining way in critiquing personalities in these processes.

The B12 certainly does have money to employ two major consulting firms, as noted a few days ago in one of Freaked's posts: (from the Austin American-Stateman by Kirk Bohls). This is key:

"The league has hired Navigate Research, a Chicago-based company that counts among its clients 12 universities, including Baylor, as well as eight NFL teams. It has also contracted with BHV, a New York City-based firm that has clients like the University of Texas, the Texas Rangers, Notre Dame, the Houston Rockets and the Rose Bowl."

My take now, is that Boren may have gotten movement toward what he wanted without it looking like he got what he wanted. In return, he and others have agreed not to yap (doing complaints and leaks) so much about it.

I believe the big-time consulting firms, both already connected to a couple or more of B12 schools, are being used as much about blanket cover as it is about collecting data. Celestial forbid if Bowlsby would have to generate some elbow grease in this regard.

The consulting firms could give political cover to Texas and others in changing or adjusting their minds on expansion. It gives promise to Oklahoma and like-minded to keep expansion, a CCG, and explore a network as near-future options. If the consulting firms recommend against expansion, then the claim can be advanced that it was professionally studied by outside groups, and thus, supports the status quo essentially. Most importantly, if expansion happens, it can be used to diminish direct anger at the B12 from the G5 schools who tried so hard to get accepted, but were rejected. If Houston is not picked, for example, it could help serve to deflect the frustrations of some Texas politicians supportive of UH.

Lash, your remark about Cincy holds true. They can't speak about closing the geographic gap with WVU without including Cincy. Cincy is dealing with this as if there's some confidence. UCF/USF are barking for notice. UConn has received attention as well.

Maybe the consulting firms will prove very valuable. There are some nuance differences among some of the alleged G5 prospects. They all have some measure of baggage, and each of the prime ones have positive attributes. Hopefully, the two firms will be thorough, objective, timely, and impressive with their findings.

sec03, you make a lot of good points on G5 issues and a possible raid perception with consultancy taking the hit verses a particular school.

There is another issue the previous Commissioner Chuck Neinas which was a fantastic leader in my opinion, the Big 12 had to expand to 10 schools and play round robin of 9 games to satisfy the networks ESPN and FOX with the correct football inventory.

So if the league wanted to have a CCG with ten members they can not go back to an 8 game schedule which would make some sort of sense when every school did not play each other in the season. Otherwise you will have a guaranteed rematch every year.

If the Big 12 wanted to return to an 8 game football conference schedule, they must expand to 12 schools.

There is yet another issue with needing to provide FOX noon eastern games time starts which causes schools like Oklahoma to play 11 A.M. games which is very hard on fans.

Expanding with Cincinnati would provide one more option with WVU to help in this type of football inventory for eastern noon start times.

There are other benefits to expanding to 12 and not just providing WVU and close by neighbor.

Before there was a gag order and certain tid bits leaked out, there was a comment made from a reliable source the Big 12 will expand however may not be the 12 schools like every assumes.

This would indicate to me the league has not made up its mind if they want 12 or 14 schools. Another reason to bring in consultants to drive through these type of discussions that may be heated between schools wanting to stop at 12 and schools wanting to expand to larger number of 14. There is another issue with come schools like TCU that appear to like 10 schools and must be convinced of the value of 14 schools verses 12.

While it is fun to speculate on a particular group of schools, the consultancy firm can help to bring agreement on which schools should be brought into the league.

Another tid bit that came out before the gag order, BYU is not an issue on playing on Sunday for the Big 12.

This could be another reason the league wants to consider 14 to allow bringing in BYU which would be a fantastic option for football and future Big 12 network.

This is just one more type of alignment the Big 12 may be needing to consider.

West: Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, TCU, Baylor, Texas, Texas Tech, BYU

East: Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, WVU, Cincinnati, ?14 school

Is Florida worth the risk to take one school of UCF/USF or is UConn a better choice for launching a Big 12 network.

Expanding to 12 may be an more easy choice, however, expanding to 14 needs deep dives and consultants to wade thru the benefits.

By the way the Big Ten took almost a year to decide on expansion after the infamous announcement the league was expanding from 11 schools which caused wide spread panic especially with leagues on the east part of country.

I do not believe it is particularly unusual to take this long of time to make these type of important decisions with membership.


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