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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:27 pm 
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sec03 wrote:
sec03 wrote:
The Bishin Cutter wrote:
Huan wrote:
my inclination is that both Mizzou and aTm are aberration this year due to
1. coming from being contenders in a strong Big 12 to equivalently competitive though more top dominated SEC
2. an off year for many SEC teams like Florida and Georgia, and even LSU


Whether both schools went 11-1 or 6-6, the fact that both went bowling (and this being aTm's second time doing so in two years as a SEC school) meant these schools added to the bowl revenue pot. Still, be it a tip-top SEC or a "down year," going bowling and being in the best FBS conference is something remarkable. It took more time for Arky and USC to do it when they joined something like 20+ years ago, and the SEC was not much back then.

Let's hope both WVU and TCU failing to make bowls this past season isn't a routine. TCU especially, since it didn't do much to push the reach of the conference.


Most years, every conference is going to have a few fb programs below par for them, as Huan indicated given Florida and Georgia as examples. Of course, Florida was the big letdown, and Georgia in pre-season was viewed as a national championship contender. UGA did have more than their usual share of injuries for the year.

I'll take Bishin Cutter's point even further. Some of the beforehand posts imply the SEC is 'over-hyped' and saturated with weak teams. "Over-hype" happens, and that is largely driven by TV marketing and a degree of regionalism where interest is higher. "Over-hype" is certainly not limited to the SEC when one factors in the focus given to Ohio State, Notre Dame, etc. And certainly a couple of schools in the B12 have been the beneficiaries of such.

For the "weak team" suggestion, I'll use the one fb program in the SEC that arguably get's disparaged the most and probably get's the least attention: Mississippi State. Mississippi State has gone to four straight bowls and won three of them. They clobbered Michigan in the 2010 Gator Bowl, and this year defeated CUSA Champion, Rice, in the Liberty Bowl by the largest margin of all bowl games for the season. MSU played in the title series in NCAA baseball this past season and has one of the best baseball facilities in the league and country. MSU is expanding their fb stadium to 61,000+, while during the 80s' and into the early 90s', Scott field held 35,000 or so.

OK, getting bowl games is not so difficult anymore. But a school has to produce at least six wins. And I would not suggest Mississippi State is a power program. They are not. Wins against real power programs, such as LSU and 'Bama, are very infrequent. MSU recruits are basically in-state (competing against Ole Miss and some stronger neighbors) and those the big power programs do not usually aggressively pursue. Mississippi State is not going to sustain themselves at the level of LSU and such, and the best MSU can expect is to have a couple of seasons a decade where they mount a serious challenge and get near or barely reach double digit wins. Being dominated by more powerful schools is relative, circumstantial, and certainly situational. Every major conference is going to have programs that dominate nearly every year, and all have programs that struggle just to be mediocre, but in context, much of the time. Miss. State plays and has the talent and depth level as if they are challenging for the CUSA title. For the SEC, it falls a bit short.

The question for the B12 is not how it compares to the SEC. The questions are, can the B12 make it better, and if so, do they want to? For the immediate future, the conference shows they do not intend to expand, so in their minds they have addressed those questions.


SEC I don't disagree with much of what you said. I think you are spot on with most of your analysis. However, I wouldn't say that Mississippi State competes with CUSA talent on the defensive side of the ball. Offensively they have always struggled to get top end talent. But their defense is usually pretty strong. I watched them play a couple of times this year and I couldn't get over how good their D-line looked. As a UCF fan I couldn't imagine what we could do with players like that, physically at least. 6'6 265 at the DE. We have never had players like that and we still do okay on that side of the ball. I believe that if MSU had a half way decent offense, they would be one of the top teams in the SEC.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:00 pm 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
Cincy and BYU are still the best programs available to the Big XII, even if they both don't help WVU. And if the Big XII does take them both (and it has to be both), not only does it cripple the "best of the leftovers" conference, it REALLY puts UConn in a bad place.


I will agree that Cincy is a better basketball program than UCF. There are probably 2 dozen high schools that are better Basketball programs than UCF. But I wouldn't say that Cincy is a better football program than UCF. With CUSA talent, we won the American Conference. UCF won a BCS game while Cincy was getting pounded by North Carolina. To the best of my knowledge Cincy has never won a BCS game.

We have seen how good Cincy can be with the BCS tag, how much better could UCF get with the same exposure?

That being said, I think Cincy is probably the best grab for the Big 12 right now. They make a good travel partner for WVU. And like I said, their BBall is light years beyond UCF. However, I think in the long run that either UCF or USF, if not both, might be a better option for the Big 12. I know I am going to catch heat for this, but I think the Big 12 should add 4 teams, staggered out over the next 8 years. Cincy, Memphis, UCF, and USF. Offer each school a partial share of the TV contracts, increasing each year until they reach a full share.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:05 am 
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Did anyone expect Cincinnati to win/share 4 Big East football titles? That was supposed to be all West Virginia and Louisville.

What happens next for USF and UCF, I don't know. But, can we recognize that they are where they are because of other programs' Florida recruiting needs and a means of keeping other schools out of certain conferences? USF had ZERO reason being in the Big East. They got in, not just to "replace Miami," but because the alternatives, Memphis and ECU, were such non-starters to schools like Louisville, Cincinnati, West Virginia, and others.

The AAC is now more about merit than it is old politics. Get USM in there, and it really is the best of the eastern non-major programs. I can't wait to see how it plays out on the field.

The above is why I hope that if the Big XII doesn't expand soon, we have some time to see how programs adjust to the loss of that cancerous bloc of northeastern schools, who's really to blame for all of the realignment stuff of the last twenty-plus years. It's kind of like hitting the reset button. Maybe when the Big XII decides to expand, be it later rather than sooner, more programs will legitimately have a chance to state their case for big conference inclusion, rather than the petty, subjective queue that emerged thanks to the Big East and decades of parochial snobbery and one-upmanship.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:43 pm 
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hendu1976fl wrote:
SEC I don't disagree with much of what you said. I think you are spot on with most of your analysis. However, I wouldn't say that Mississippi State competes with CUSA talent on the defensive side of the ball. Offensively they have always struggled to get top end talent. But their defense is usually pretty strong. I watched them play a couple of times this year and I couldn't get over how good their D-line looked. As a UCF fan I couldn't imagine what we could do with players like that, physically at least. 6'6 265 at the DE. We have never had players like that and we still do okay on that side of the ball. I believe that if MSU had a half way decent offense, they would be one of the top teams in the SEC.


hendu1976fl, I stand corrected and thank you. I was trying to make a positive point about Mississippi State, and in qualifying it, I went a bit excessive on the negative when it came to the CUSA analogy. Mississippi State is one of my SEC favorites. Maybe some of my frustration got exposed because I am awaiting for them to beat one of the conference's really big guys lately. Concur, MSU usually does exhibit a strong defense. If their offensive line and kicking game improved, and their receivers step it up more, they really could get into the thick of things. They also need to work to diminish the number of penalties for particular games.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:55 pm 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
What happens next for USF and UCF, I don't know. But, can we recognize that they are where they are because of other programs' Florida recruiting needs and a means of keeping other schools out of certain conferences? USF had ZERO reason being in the Big East. They got in, not just to "replace Miami," but because the alternatives, Memphis and ECU, were such non-starters to schools like Louisville, Cincinnati, West Virginia, and others.

Back in the day, I remember media reports right before USF was added to the old BE, that the BE was actually seriously considering UCF instead. It was reported that the newly arrived former CUSA schools to the BE told the conference at the time that USF was a better choice. Of course, those particular schools had the prior affiliation with USF.

Now, UCF is showing its stride very well.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 4:29 pm 
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I would rather see UCF than Cincinnati in the big XII
Other being BYU. Sure the conference would be geographically disperse with BYU, ISU, WVU, and UCF but a geographic contiguous conference was lost when Nebraska and Missouri left, leaving ISU stranded, and then extenuated with WVU.
Might as well go BYU and UCF next.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:20 pm 
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http://mweb.cbssports.com/ncaaf/writer/ ... ooms-large

Dodd on the Big 12 analyst of benefits of not expanding including how great bball is.

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