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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:54 am 
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TKthunder wrote:
DINIG DING DING

Rice and Tulane help raise the conference's profile and will be able to help schools like Oklahoma on their path to AAU membership, a school like Texas Tech toward tier 1 status, and schools like WVU/KSU/OSU out of their academic pitfalls.

The football story line hasn't changed. The Big 12 is a solid league with 2-3 bottom feeders, and still a core of 7 solid team at the top (if TCU wins the conference it will be the 6th different champ since 2009; UT/OU/OSU/KSU/BU/TCU). They are simply beating each other up like how the PAC10 did it for years and the SEC West is currently doing.

Adding two smart schools in great local markets (HOU/NOLA) and splitting up the 'jewels' UT/OU and the 'dregs' KU/ISU Rice/Tulane to the N/S would help programs like KSU/WVU/OSU or TCU/Baylor/Tech have better records and limit their exposure to unnecessary losses, plus it would stop the people yelling about the Big 12's lack of a CCG.

In addition it would immediately help boost the recruiting of both programs and swing any borderline recruits considering Houston/SMU/UTSA/UNT/Tulsa/Memphis/LA Tech/Ark St to Rice/Tulane.

The Big12 (if they decide to expand) should follow the PAC12's expansion plan. Land 2 mediocre schools adjacent to your footprint with new markets and allow your powerhouse (USC/Ore)/mid range schools (Stan/UW/UCLA/ASU) to benefit. The Big Ten's plan was very similar but was specifically to place their best products (tOSU, UM, MSU, PSU) in the biggest markets other than Chicago and to protect their 2 'jewels' in the West (NU/Wisc) from those powerhouses in the East to make the league look well rounded (NU/WU both inflate their records by beating up the weaker East and the West flushes out a dominant champ thus both receive high rankings before facing off in the CCG, leading to more rankings and thus more playoff level bowls and ultimately more fans, money, and ratings).

If you add BYU and Cincy (2 best remaining/consistent Go5 fb teams) then you have a very hard Big 12 South and a very easy Big 12 North (like it was before) spread out from Provo, UT to Morgantown, WV with little no history or rivalries except KU/KSU. The South will beat up on each other and the North will be lackluster and have little/no respect in the media. Push OU/OSU to the North and you have a solid core of 4 OK/KA schools + longtime neighbor ISU with only 1 interloper in WVU and in the South you have essentially the old SWC-the cheaters (SMU/A&M) and jerks (Arky/Hou)+Tulane.

You can sell that history, you can forge that bond between the new schools and old schools (almost more than any possible conference expansion since the ACC's addition of VPI/Miami.

And finally the huge advantage is that you elevate Rice/Tulane now and by 2025 they are squarely in the P5 club so if 6 schools (the Texhoma 4 and KU/WVU) leave for greener pastures, you have 2 quick and easy replacements waiting in the wings to get to the minimum of 8 with Houston and SMU that people think are respectable and then you have time to evaluate options and recover.

I see this as a good move for everyone. Jewels get better SOS by playing in divisions+rivalry game, the mid tier get an inflated record by avoiding some additional losses, and the dregs get to establish a new core of the league in case of 2025 exodus, and everyone benefits from adding 2 great AAU schools plus their great travel/recruiting cities/TV markets.


+1

As a long time supporter of the SWC and Big 12.....I totally agree with this.
Tulane and Rice would be the perfect fit for this conference.

Sure, Cincy would also be a good choice....but, BYU and UCF would be way out of the footprint...and I don't really like either of their fit with the rest of the group.

Tulane just built an on campus stadium and would include a very rich state for recruiting(which would help every member of the conference).
Rice is outstanding at baseball...and adds a trip to Houston for everyone to recruit for any sport.

I would also be ok with Tulane and Cincy, if that is the direction the conference wanted to go. Cincy, of course, would help WVU cut down their travel costs.

Cincy...would add recruiting in another great state, as well as, a top notch research institute. Cincy also brings with them a high quality bball program to counter weight Kansas in the north.

**unlike the deal with Liberty and the SBC....where, I wouldn't let Liberty in because of their horrible record against lack luster schools. Tulane, Rice or Cincy....hold distinctions as high quality schools, all have been in many conferences with success, and continue to play the best schools in the country on a regular basis. So, this is a situation where you can ignore a schools record and base a decision heavier on potential(especially when those cities are New Orleans, Cincy and Houston).


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 11:48 am 
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Bowlsby, as he always does, said in late October the B12 has no intention of expanding in the next ten years or more (paraphrasing here). That can change with circumstances, but it is safe to assume the B12 is not expanding unless a motivation arises beyond the current conditions.
The playoffs could be a factor. And that means this year to start. Not having a CCG COULD diminish the chances that TCU or Baylor will make it for the final four. Alabama, FSU, and Oregon appear SAFE if none of those three lose. Mississippi State would be a strong candidate to retain a spot if they beat Vandy and Ole Miss and also they could end up in the SEC championship game if Auburn defeats Alabama. But the real challenge for TCU or Baylor if there's only one spot for contention, is Ohio State, if they win the rest including a B1G championship game. Ohio State could easily jump. Those CCGs' in the SEC, B1G, and PAC12 will loom huge. Even FSU will get added security for winning the ACC championship game. Thus, it is one less game for TCU or Baylor to make a greater case.
TCU or Baylor can argue the 'body of work' point. But that also comes with the usual reservations also, such as someone hanging 61 points on 'em'.
The message here is not to say who deserves it and who doesn't. Controversy about it is going to happen; this year! It could be a catalyst for the B12 to increase their numbers and resume a CCG.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 12:40 pm 
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It is always fun to speculate on the only major power conference that could possibly expand in the near future, there would have to be a lot of variables to push the Big 12 into expansion.

A lot of folks on this board and some in the media want to believe the Big 12 is unsettled with 10 members, I believe just the opposite is true.

The Big 12 with round robin play in all major sports has united this conference similar to the old 10 member SEC, Pac 10 and original Big Ten used to possesses with these formats. There is no talk with Big 12 officials that actually make decisions or coaches that influence conference decisions compared to frustration with schools like LSU complaining about unfair schedules, ACC with unbalanced Notre Dame issues (Big 12 dodged a bullet with this idea), Indiana and other Big Ten schools not getting to play the premier league teams every year or just lost in the larger shuffle of schools.

Everyone focus totally on TV revenue which of course is important, however, the Big 12 is just as successful as the other leagues in TV contracts. The Pac 12 is not having the push in revenue the conference network was suppose to generate and the compete TV exposure could change in the future as well.

That leaves the original purpose of what a league is suppose to promote and that is consistent rivalries with teams playing each other consistently every year in all major revenue sports.

This fact alone brings the Big 12 to the top of the list in stability with all schools playing each other which is precisely why leagues formed in the first place before cable networks pushed these crazy size leagues into bloated oversize leagues that only benefit current TV models.

Unless the playoff refuses to take the huge payouts that expansion to eight schools would produce and based on bloated size of leagues issues listed about, the playoff with expand much sooner that we can blink an eye with TV revenue greed in mind.

While it may be fun to speculate the Big 12 will expand, there is no reason to expand the Big 12 if the playoff expands to eight schools and each power five league gets an automatic bid. This is just enviable to take place with so much revenue left on the table and so many issues with certain league champions possibly missing out.

There is outside chance the SEC could be left out if Mississippi State losses to Mississippi and Alabama losses to Auburn and both lose to the SEC east champion in the SEC title game. Can any one guess what would happen if the might SEC got left of the playoffs entirely this year? While very unlikely it is very possible and this alone should be of concern to each of the current five power leagues.

I see the future having a minimum of 8 schools with all power leagues champions getting an automatic bid into college football playoff sooner than latter.

It is really hard to see why the Big 12 would have any need to expand and take on more schools just to influence the college playoff committee when this issue is destined to be fixed very soon.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:54 pm 
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Lash -

Agree that most everyone thinks an 8-team plyoff makes more sense.

Although this CFP format is supposed to go for 12 years, I think ESPN's TV contracts only cover the first 6.

Once the 4-team playoff runs through a full roatation of the 6 bowls (after 6 years), there would be the possibility to go to 8 teams.

The same 6 bowls (Rose, Fiesta, Sugar, Cotton, Peach , Orange) could switch to hosting 4 quarter-final games and 2 semi-final games in an 8-team bracket format.

Don't be surprised if the TV networks (primarily ESPN) push for that switch after the January 2020 championship.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 5:11 pm 
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Agree completely. All P5 champs in automatically; gives the season importance. Then 1 GO5 and 2 wild cards (Miss St and Baylor/TCU/Mich St/Ga this year). Then Mike Slive can enjoy his retirement.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 10:29 am 
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lash wrote:
It is really hard to see why the Big 12 would have any need to expand and take on more schools just to influence the college playoff committee when this issue is destined to be fixed very soon.


In more ways than one, no less. They could score big with the playoff. It would be nice to see a unified front, though. Like, we know they want a CCG for the sake of money, but the CCG does pose a risk of possible playoff exclusion if the results don't go "as expected." Bowlsby speaks way too often out of both sides of his mouth. And it wasn't just him...his predecessors did, too. So, when it comes to expansion, do they need to expand? No. For many reasons, I feel, too. But will they? Which side of the mouth is Bowlsby speaking from?

I think moving from 4 to 8 is a no-brainer, too. I think we aren't there, however, because of the B1G and PAC, who don't want it unless it really serves them well and keeps the Rose Bowl very relevant. This 4-team structure is the fabled "+1" thing they wanted but people didn't like for so long. Well, it was either that or keep the horrible BCS structure, and, not surprisingly, the B1G and PAC (and their precious Rose Bowl) got what they wanted. I wouldn't be surprised if the 4-team model was extended in another one of those back-room deals like they did with the BCS, buying everyone more time until the B1G and PAC are forced to come to the table, or the other conferences kowtow to their demands. Schools get money, fans lose interest.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 12:46 pm 
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westwolf wrote:
Agree completely. All P5 champs in automatically; gives the season importance. Then 1 GO5 and 2 wild cards (Miss St and Baylor/TCU/Mich St/Ga this year). Then Mike Slive can enjoy his retirement.


I want to see 8 teams in the playoff too. I think its ridiculous to tell the winner of a Power 5 Conference winner that they are excluded while another conference gets two bids.

I like tute's proposal as well but I'd prefer to see the quarter finals hosted by the 4 highest rated champions. There seems to be a significant void in playoff sites north of the Red River.


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