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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 11:35 am 
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hendu1976fl wrote:
lash wrote:
lash wrote:
freaked4collegefb wrote:
DMN blog article reporting that Oklahoma President has been named new Big 12 board Chairman prior to spring league meetings scheduled for 3Jun2016 in Dallas.Link at http://sportsday.dallasnews.com/college ... eep-lively" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is precisely what the Big 12 needed at the right time to get this league fired up for battle. The formal Chairman from Kansas State always took the approach we need all schools on the same page in agreement . I prefer the old ACC raid of the Big East approach and all you need is eight Big 12 schools in agreement with what has to take place with Boren's three objectives. The ACC never let North Carolina and Duke prevent the league from expanding and overrode their no votes with the required number of schools and the Big 12 needs to take this same approach.

Be nice to Texas is what some folks stated and be dammed with Texas as Oklahoma State coach was referring as Texas will most likely be gone if you don't do something now while there is time.

The first objective is an easy win for Boren as the consultancy firm data has made the reinstating of the champion game a requirement. Done.

The second objective of rebranding the LHN into a Big 12 network only requires 8 schools to vote in favor. The GOR are only made to keep a school from leaving it does not prevent a school from getting voted out. Either way the LHN is history regardless if Texas agrees to rebrand the LHN or Texas is forced to flee to the SEC or Big Ten. Done.

The third objective of expanding back to 12 schools is becoming a little interesting as the Big Ten has a lot of cash to raid another power league and provide some otherwise possible candidates. I see Boren not wanting to wait on this issue and will force the league to expand to 12. Again only eight votes are needed. Yes votes we know right now are of course Oklahoma, WVU, Oklahoma State, Kansas State, Iowa State. It will be an easy solution to get Kansas, Texas Tech, and most likely Baylor and you got your eight votes needed. Done.

Regardless of what happens down the road if both flag ship schools of Texas and Oklahoma leave for greener pastures, the remaining eight and possibly soon to be ten or 12 schools if the league expands to 14 will be in a much better position of having a conference wide network, football CCG, and possible near the top of the second tier of power leagues.

It would certainly make for some great news if the Big 12 expanded in May/June with UCF/USF/Cincinnati/UConn and let the chips fall where they may in 2026 when the Big 12 contract is up for renewal.

The Big 12 announcing in early June, the league is expanding with 12 and better yet 14 schools, reinstating the football CCG, and rebranding the LHN into the Big 12 network would be on par with the recent Big Ten and launching of the SEC networks.

Make it happen Boren and you will become the new Delany of the world in college sports.

If the Big 12 expands to 14 members with UConn, Cincinnati, USF, UCF here are my picks for the seven team divisions and one permanent cross over game for each school.

East: Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, WVU, UConn, Cincinnati, USF, UCF

West: Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU, Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State

Once permanent cross over game for each 14 member school with 2 rotating schools each year between the East and West divisions

Oklahoma - Texas (Red River Rivalry)
Oklahoma State - Texas Tech
USF - Baylor
UCF - TCU
UConn - Kansas (basketball trophy for the football winner)
Cincinnati - Kansas State
WVU - Iowa State

These divisions and cross over games keep most rivalries or potential rivalries in the same divisions and balance out the Oklahoma schools with a Texas school, balance out the Florida schools with a couple Texas schools and keeps the three most northern schools playing a permanent cross over game with each division.


While I think 12 is the number they will probably go to, I believe that 14 is what they should do. I agree with you on the 4 you have picked. The only thing I would like to see different than what you have is in the crossovers. I think Iowa State, Kansas, and Kansas State would want a game in Florida and it would benefit them more than it would TCU or Baylor. Kansas vs Uconn sounds like a rivalry waiting to happen (well at least in hoops). I would move some things around and try and create some sort of scheduling balance in terms of historically matching programs and taking into consideration recent performance.
OU vs Texas
OSU vs Baylor
WVU vs TCU
Cincy vs TTU
These are probably the 4 best programs on both sides of the division (an argument could be made for KSU over TTU)
UConn vs Kansas
UCF vs Kansas State
USF vs Iowa State

Now, someday in the future, OU and Texas, possibly even Kansas may leave. If they do, you will have given Cincy, USF, and UCF almost a decade to recruit and build their brand in a P5 conference. Those 3 teams should be a lot better than they are now. As much as it pains me to say it, USF is a sleeping giant. There isn't as much talent in the area as Miami, but honestly, is there any place that does have that kind of talent? Tampa is probably the 2nd best spot in the state in the state of Florida. I just don't understand why they haven't been killing it. Should the above 3 leave, you could still bring in Boise, CSU, and BYU (I think Fresno State or San Diego State would also be interesting from a TV point of view) from the west or you could bring in Temple, Memphis and East Carolina from the east.

hendu, first up if the Big 12 makes the rights move which I believe Boren is pushing for, Oklahoma and Texas will be in the Big 12 for the long haul. With that said, if they don't make the right moves it could happen sooner than latter that both could be gone after 2026.

The Big Ten contract is very reassuring the Big 12 will expand because inventory is still important to the networks regardless if the networks are having cash flow issues.

Basketball inventory is very important as well regardless if the sport does not have the financial clout of football. UConn becomes a big benefit in this regard and further helps launching of the Big 12 network in the tri state area including US top market of NYC. I do believe Boren will be successful in getting this accomplished as early as the May/June meetings. The reason are that Texas will actually make more money with a Big 12 network compared to the LHN. With many of the original folks gone at Texas that help create the LHN, the ego issue will be over looked by the ability to generate more money. Ability to generate more revenue is important for the richest school in the NCAA and the decision for Texas to fold the LHN into a Big 12 is sound good business sense.

The fact this article with Boren reinforces the Big 12 is considering 14 schools would indicate to me they will expand with 14 if the data proves this to be a good move.

This leads back to the Big Ten new contract that inventory is important to the networks. The Big 12 may not have the same very large fans bases as the Big Ten, the Big 12 has good fan bases that support football which is thee backbone of any network revenue potential.

If you add the correct type of inventory including the four schools, there is no reason to believe the networks including FOX, and ESPN will not need this inventory especially if ESPN has a new rebranded national network to promote Big 12 games. Another point is Fox is getting Big Ten games, however, FOX and FS1 needed this inventory to fill up slots especially during the NOON time games for football.

As for the cross over games, that will probably be a political type of discussion and decision. Since Oklahoma and Texas are almost a must to be in separate divisions to anchor the Big 12 divisions, a permanent cross over game will be required to ensure the Red River Rivalry is played every year.

I tend to believe schools in the south especially Texas do not necessarily like playing in cold climates and will push to avoid playing as many games as possible north of Oklahoma. This fact is another reason that Oklahoma and Texas are not jumping to join the Big Ten if the Big 12 can accomplish what appears to be a great opportunity to keep pace with the SEC and Big Ten.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 4:20 pm 
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Making the B12 14 with the addition of 4 AAC schools is no where near what the B10 would be for Texas and Oklahoma.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 9:59 pm 
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ctx48c wrote:
Making the B12 14 with the addition of 4 AAC schools is no where near what the B10 would be for Texas and Oklahoma.

Who knows what a decade will bring in potential revenue.

If the Big 12 can take just some of the UConn tri state NYC areas, Ohio in the Midwest and two new Florida Markets that are growing, the additional inventory of games and markets could position the league to be a good place in the next decade having a potential ESPN sponsored Big 12 Network.

If the Big 12 does not reach it potential in the next decade, there will always be the Big Ten if there is more revenue and a better fit for schools in any league.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 5:50 am 
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Not nearly as good as the Big 10.
Uconn,Cinn,WVU,TCU,Texas Tech,etc are not Big 10 caliber schools or athletic programs.Missouri,Nebraska,Colorado and Texas A&M left the B12 for far better opportunities.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 9:18 am 
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The Big 12 falling behind the Big Ten has nothing to do with tier 1 and tier 2 rights as the Big 12 is close or holding its own with the FOX/ESPN contract that runs through 2026. The Big 12 contract gets larger each year per share and will keep pace with both the SEC and Big Ten including the new Big Ten contract with FOX and ESPN through 2026.

The issue with the SEC and Big Ten passing up the other power leagues including the Big 12 has to do with the ability of the SECN and the BTN.

Picking schools for a network has more to do with the markets than the reputation of the school in sports such as Rutgers and Maryland to the Big Ten.

Ability to create or rebrand the LHN into a successful Big 12 network will be key to keeping the Big 12 close in revenue with the Big Ten and SEC.

It does not matter if UConn/Cincinnati/USF/UCF are Big Ten type schools a more important if they can help the potential Big 12 network keep pace with the SECN and BTN.

The Big Ten contract with Fox was not about contracting contracts as Fox now has part of the Pac 12, Big 12 and Big Ten, it was more about FOX expanding it reach with additional invertory. FOX/FS1 needed more EST Noon schools the Big Ten can provide. Remember this issue of Oklahoma having to play 11 AM games to provide the necessary inventory to FOX/FS1.

If the Big 12 can expand with 12 or better yet 14 schools and not impact its tier 1 and tier 2 contracts that will be up for renewal in 2026 and launch the Big 12 network there is a very good chance the Big 12 will keep pace with both the SEC and Big Ten.

Any expansion into the Florida Markets by the Big 12 will further help FOX penetrate this south east which the SEC is tied up with ESPN and CBS and the ACC will not have any new contracts until 2028.

IF the Big 12 expands this summer with UCF/USF, Fox will have schools in those markets as early as 2018 to promote the ever expanding FOX college sports networks.

FOX is trying to catch up with ESPN game day type shows which lead up and promote the entire day in college sports on football Saturday. By penetrating the Big Ten markets and already having Pac 12 and Big 12 southwest markets, there is good chance FOX will help with Big 12 expansion this summer to add potential noon start games from the southeast.

If the Big 12 enters 2026 keeping both FOX and ESPN contracts in tact and has 10 years of Big 12 network up a running with new customers, the Big 12 will defiantly keep pace with the Big Ten and SEC.

Again it does not matter what type of schools the Big 12 selects as long as FOX/ESPN will keep the tier 1 and tier 2 contracts growing in 2026 with additional schools and those schools help launch the Big 12 network.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 12:18 pm 
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I'm starting to think that we are going to see no movement in the Big 12 whatsoever in the Big 12 until we get closer to the GoR expiration and the renewal of most of the major conference's media rights contracts which I believe falls around 2025 or 2026. That's when the Big Ten and SEC will expand beyond the 14 schools they currently have. I think ACC and Big 12 schools are hesitant to add anyone to the mix now when they don't know who will still be in the conference in a decade. It's probably safer for them to wait to see what exactly the situation is, who they still have, and their relative strength to the other Power leagues to make a decision.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 3:05 pm 
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fighting muskie wrote:
I'm starting to think that we are going to see no movement in the Big 12 whatsoever in the Big 12 until we get closer to the GoR expiration and the renewal of most of the major conference's media rights contracts which I believe falls around 2025 or 2026. That's when the Big Ten and SEC will expand beyond the 14 schools they currently have. I think ACC and Big 12 schools are hesitant to add anyone to the mix now when they don't know who will still be in the conference in a decade. It's probably safer for them to wait to see what exactly the situation is, who they still have, and their relative strength to the other Power leagues to make a decision.

There are conflicting messages out there that suggest the Big 12 will not expand right now. WVU's President commented the Big 12 will not expand right now while the Big 12 recently voted Boren in as the chairman which has been pushing for expansion.

If the Big 12 ends the spring meeting with status quo, meaning no CCG, no expansion, and more importantly no Big 12 network decision, it will not matter what they believe is best for the future.

If the Big 12 does not get a Big 12 network decision during these meeting, I would place the Big 12 on immediate life support with and expectancy no latter than 2026.

It will not make any difference if the SEC and Big Ten raid the ACC and Big 12 after GOR expire in 2026(Big 12) and 2028(ACC), the combination of those schools in both leagues will be left in the dust.

It is now or never for the Big 12 to make decisions to keep pace with the Big Ten and SEC.

You can tell by my post, the ACC is already on major alert with very few options to try and catch the Big Ten and SEC.

The Big 12 has a chance with the LHN folding into the Big 12, however, without this option, the Big 12 is dead man walking.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 4:48 pm 
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A few more tidbits to ponder while we wait for the Big 12 May/early June meeting results.

The LHN does not expire with ESPN until 2032, so would expect the Big 12 GOR extended until 2032 with the rebranding of the LHN into a Big 12 network.

With FOX paying a lot of money to get into the Big Ten markets, FOX may be willing to cover the cost of expansion with USF and UCF to get Big 12 Fox live broadcast from Florida.

Expanding with two schools would require the reinstatement of the Big 12 football championship game.

How would the Big 12 look with the following divisions!

Northeast: UCF, USF, WVU, Iowa State, Kansas State, Kansas

Southwest: Oklahoma, Ok State, TCU, Baylor, Texas Tech, Texas

GOR sighed out by all 12 schools till 2032.

The Big 12 can sit tight and wait on what direction the Big Ten and SEC take with the ACC to add schools to reach a possibility of 16.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 3:51 pm 
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This is another article that have many of the same views as I do on a potential Big 12 without Texas and Oklahoma. http://www.vanquishthefoe.com/2016/4/25 ... ealignment

The Big 12 have half ownership in the Sugar Bowl and will always have access to the playoff access bowls unless they rewrite the entire four team playoff contacts which seems unlikely. Additionally the Big 12 has two NCAA votes compared to the one per each of the current group of five leagues.

So forget the University of Texas vote if the school is against expansion. It very likely Texas will be gone very soon and prepare for this now. Oklahoma is in favor of expansion, however, will probably become Texas travel partner so use the yes vote with Oklahoma to make the changes now.

Regardless of Kansas brand name in basketball, I do not see Kansas having the same clout to leave as the Oklahoma and Texas.

So really expansion this summer should be all about which schools do Baylor, TCU, Texas Tech, Oklahoma State, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, WVU want to be associated with in the next decade?

Based on clout, the state of Connecticut would be a good supporting structure to keep the Big 12 in the power league discussions.

Cincinnati is another school that Oklahoma apparently likes and will support for expansion and would be a good school in a post Big 12 that may not include Texas and Oklahoma.

So how would this look if Oklahoma and Texas are not longer around?

West: Baylor, TCU, Texas Tech, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Kansas State

East: WVU, UConn, Cincinnati, Iowa State, Central Florida, South Florida

This league would be similar to the suggestion at that time WVU AD Oliver Luck suggested when the Pac 16 proposal were heating up with probability the remaining Big East schools would create a new league with the remaining Big 12 schools.

West: Baylor, Missouri, Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, Louisville

East: WVU, Rutgers, Cincinnati, UConn, USF, USF

Summary: The Big 12 should expand this summer with UConn, Cincinnati, USF, UCF and let the chips fall where they may in 2026.


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