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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 6:35 pm 
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Would SEC fans be happy with "just" West Virginia and North Carolina State?


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 12:02 pm 
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bigshotbob wrote:
Would SEC fans be happy with "just" West Virginia and North Carolina State?


No


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 12:07 pm 
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bigshotbob wrote:
Would SEC fans be happy with "just" West Virginia and North Carolina State?

If/when the SEC takes North Carolina State from the ACC, why could they not also take Virginia Tech? Similarly, if/when the SEC takes West Virginia from the Big 12, why could they not also take, say, Oklahoma State?


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 4:54 pm 
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Nc state and Va Tech to the SEC


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:53 pm 
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If you are going to take NC state and Virginia Tech for their markets you may as well go big and strip the ACC of all it's big southern assets. Take FSU, Clemson, Georgia Tech, and Miami too. Maybe Louisville too. Let the Big Ten take what they want.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:07 pm 
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Virginia,UNC to B10
Clemson,FSU and Miami to B12
WVU,Conn,Cinn,USF,UCF to the ACC(or the old BE)


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 10:46 am 
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westwolf wrote:
bigshotbob wrote:
Would SEC fans be happy with "just" West Virginia and North Carolina State?


No


I think any two of the NCST, WVU, and VPI cluster would make the conference happy enough, though ideally it would be the NC and VA schools. I think they'd settle for any one of the NC/VA schools with FSU or Clemson, too.

Ideally, I think they'd rather get into NC and VA via UNC, Duke, and UVA, but it's not like NCST and VPI are something to turn away. You definitely get the chaser football programs from each state, even if not the overall chaser programs.

I think WVU could happen some time in the future, though. They were close, and coming third behind TAMU and Missouri is understandable. While there is no market of worth in WV, the geographical access to the northeast and mid-Atlantic is definitely there.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 1:40 pm 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
westwolf wrote:
bigshotbob wrote:
Would SEC fans be happy with "just" West Virginia and North Carolina State?


No


I think any two of the NCST, WVU, and VPI cluster would make the conference happy enough, though ideally it would be the NC and VA schools. I think they'd settle for any one of the NC/VA schools with FSU or Clemson, too.

Ideally, I think they'd rather get into NC and VA via UNC, Duke, and UVA, but it's not like NCST and VPI are something to turn away. You definitely get the chaser football programs from each state, even if not the overall chaser programs.

I think WVU could happen some time in the future, though. They were close, and coming third behind TAMU and Missouri is understandable. While there is no market of worth in WV, the geographical access to the northeast and mid-Atlantic is definitely there.

For the moment, but can't happen, but would w/o GoR: Florida State and NC State.
Don't think the SEC cannot flip on that no in-footprint stance for what may serve their greater interests.
VPI was a no by VPI.

As to UNC, one may try for an opportunity to speak with a well-engaged member of the Ram Club, UNC's big money boosters. The B1G can cross UNC off their 'to-do' list for a very long time.

Future broadcasting deals could turn GoR's on their heads. Networks shall increasingly influence and/or decide conference membership. They will try to find the best 'money games' to feature, with conference collaborations of course, in their sometimes crazy ideas of what sells best for stretched markets.

The current lull:
http://www.elpasotimes.com/utepsports/c ... ached-lull


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 2:57 pm 
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The B10 backup to UNC is Ga tech.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 3:37 pm 
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sec03 wrote:
For the moment, but can't happen, but would w/o GoR: Florida State and NC State.
Don't think the SEC cannot flip on that no in-footprint stance for what may serve their greater interests.
VPI was a no by VPI.

As to UNC, one may try for an opportunity to speak with a well-engaged member of the Ram Club, UNC's big money boosters. The B1G can cross UNC off their 'to-do' list for a very long time.


I think the academics will be the only ones who will push for UNC into the B1G were the ACC to crumble. The money lines are connected to the SEC, and I doubt what happened in UMD could ever be done in Chapel Hill. Now, down the road in Durham, otoh...

FSU's out its ACC apologist president and now into the "prove it" stage of the good faith agreement the school made with the ACC to make them rich. The GoR seems more bonded to the conference overall as compared to the Big XII's, but I think it's legally more complicated and less defensible as it's written. Supposing no changes are had in the major conferences over the next 8-10 years, there are some look-in windows where I think FSU and some others will start saying "pay up." Somehow, I doubt anything less than a unanimous vote to continue with the contract will go with some threats of departure and legal challenge to the agreements made. Two things keep FSU in the ACC and out of the SEC: a legitimate network launch in 2016 or 2017, or Notre Dame's full commitment. They're too big an operation to be getting shorted in revenue like that, and what happens in Maryland now will be watched tightly to show whether fighting the legal force of the ACC for perceived financial stability is something the Seminoles would consider doing themselves.

ctx48c wrote:
The B10 backup to UNC is Ga tech.


The B1G would take GT with or without UNC, I think. GT, however, I think is pretty tight with the core of the ACC. I doubt they'll go to follow UMD, too, which might be a mutual feeling from UMD were GT's candidacy ever to come up in the Big Ten. I think the SEC's a long shot for them if there was interest in a return trip, but I also have a tough time seeing the B1G thing without some major map issues and other UMD concessions. Assuming the GoRs in place aren't worth the paper they're printed on, I don't see GT as a #15 or #16. Maybe a #17 or #18, but even then, I don't see it without schools like Missouri, Vanderbilt, Kansas, or some Texas or Oklahoma territory also acquired. I think UMD burned a lot of bridges, and if the Big Ten is actually serious of legitimate southeastern holdings in the conference in the future, they won't come from the ACC. Or, they do, but the programs will be a shell of their former glory because of the alumni and booster backlash from any administrative hijacking.

Maybe there is something going on between certain SEC institutions and the Big Ten? We know the B1G's (and PAC's) stance on compensation now...where does the SEC stand, and do all of its institutions agree with that viewpoint?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:16 pm 
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B10 has better academics and has a better tv deal than the ACC.
An AAU school like Ga Tech would find a better place in the B10.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 11:46 am 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
I think WVU could happen some time in the future, though. They were close, and coming third behind TAMU and Missouri is understandable. While there is no market of worth in WV, the geographical access to the northeast and mid-Atlantic is definitely there.


Going back to May, 1990, the SEC did establish a formal expansion committee, looking at six schools that were on the list to seriously consider: Texas, Texas A&M, FSU, Miami, South Carolina, and Arkansas. Arkansas was the first to be added when their BOT voted in August of that year to accept joining the SEC. Texas was not willing, Texas A&M could not break away at the time, FSU opted for the ACC, and South Carolina pre-empted Roy Kramer's visit to Miami by voting to accept an invitation. While Miami was showing incompatibility, arrogance, and a preference to go Big East, South Carolina was rolling out the red carpet for Kramer's visit. Then, USC, often mediocre in fb, and their once fine bb, had gone into steady decline. But--USC offered a contiguous state, a new market that was in the Carolinas, strong facilities and commitment, and a dedicated and impressive contingent of fans even when things were bad.

Here's some posts and comments regarding aspects of the 1990 SEC expansion activity:
http://www.secrant.com/rant/p/50706705/ ... 990-a.aspx

West Virginia was not on the list then, nor visited for formal consideration. Unsubstantiated reports then, had it that if South Carolina was a no-go, West Virginia would have been approached. But South Carolina was suffering since withdrawing from the ACC, and no way were they turning down the chance to go to the SEC. At the time and knowing the SEC move, the ACC quietly, through NCSU, messaged South Carolina that the ACC was open for USC to return.

When Texas A&M was added a few years back, one source tied to the SEC conveyed they would not be considering Kansas for #16, implying there would not be a fit or Missouri was already in the works and the SEC would stop there. Oklahoma was talked to but that was a no-go, given Oklahoma showed no independent enthusiasm for it and OU was committed to the "package deal" circumstances. WVU had formally applied to SEC but was not accepted. SEC sources politely conveyed at the time that WVU did not satisfy their objectives. I'm not so sure had Mizzou said no, WVU would have been invited. I do think WVU would have had the edge over other B12 schools (WVU was not a B12 member at the time) because of geography and other fit perceptions---particularly those having no realistic bridge with no Mizzou. Other Texas schools, with UT a no, were not a consideration.
Thus, I think the SEC would have tried hard then to take an ACC school that could have been extracted. Stories had VPI being courted by the SEC, but VPI was relatively new to the ACC, was content being in the ACC, and Virginia used political capital to get them in the ACC. Remember, this period was before the ACC's GoR, and we know Maryland later departed from the ACC. FSU? Clemson? GT? Miami? Maybe NCSU? The SEC was wanting to make new additions to look "academic" also, given the SEC desire to improve their reputation in that arena. Adding WVU would not satisfy that objective. That is not dismissing, though, WVU's value being in a gateway locale though a modest market, and having a formidable fan base that well-outshines those of Pitt, Syracuse, BC, Rutgers, etc.

I do think WVU has gotten under-valued in the east, and has been the victim of snobbery and a degree of envy when it comes to certain prior success in sports in the region. It's the ACC that largely made WVU an outcast by not taking them when expanding with their prior associates, which left the school with the sole option to join the B12 to stay among the top leagues. Specifically, UNC and Duke kept WVU out of the ACC. That has not been good for WVU, and the ACC has missed-out on a close-by school that can deliver on fans in the stands and decent all-round competition, which at least half of the ACC schools, particularly in the central and northern sectors and Miami, cannot match. For the SEC, WVU has just been a 'down-the-list' option at best.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 7:48 pm 
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I think it's only a matter of time before the SEC or whomever starts pulling ACC schools and things start breaking down rapidly. If the Big Ten can't get its desired UVA and UNC programs maybe they go for Pitt and Syracuse just to start sowing discord. I guess it's a question of how big Delany and Slive are willing to go. Personally, I think FSU and Clemson ought to be SEC targets even though they duplicate markets because by taking them they deprive the SEC of some of its strongest assets.

If FSU isn't included in Slive's expansion it will be interesting to see whether they remain in the ACC and function similar to the way Texas and Oklahoma do in the Big 12--the anchor school, or does the Big 12, feeling their own vulnerability, expand and take ACC assets.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:16 pm 
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B10 does not want a non-AAU school like syracuse.
Does PSU want Pitt?
Pitt is an AAU school in B10 area.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 11:18 pm 
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ctx48c wrote:
B10 does not want a non-AAU school like syracuse.
Does PSU want Pitt?
Pitt is an AAU school in B10 area.


I agree that non-AAU schools definitely have an uphill climb to get accepted by the B1G. However, Notre Dame has been invited on many occasions which means its not impossible. As far as non-AAU schools that may have a shot at the B1G, I would put Notre Dame at the top of the list following by Syracuse and Boston College. Syracuse was AAU, a basketball powerhouse, and offer more NYC viewers as well as upstate New York market. Boston College obviously has a desired market with a new footprint state in Massachusetts, has a decent history in athletics, is strong in academics despite not being AAU (#31 National by US News). I could definitely see the B1G adding Syracuse and Boston College as #15/#16 if Notre Dame was still off the table. If that were all to happen, Connecticut could kiss the B1G goodbye.

For Pitt, if the ACC collapsed I could definitely see West Virginia lobbying strong for Pitt and Louisville into the XII. That would get the XII up to 12. The B1G may grab North Carolina and Virginia to get to 18. Then I could see the SEC taking North Carolina St and Virginia Tech to get to 16. The SEC may decide to take Florida St and either Georgia Tech or Clemson to get to 18. The XII would take Miami and the other of Georgia Tech or Clemson to get to 14. Wake Forest and Duke may find their way into the XII as well for 16. Cincinnati and Connecticut may sneak in as well to get the XII to 18.

All of this assumes the PAC decides to stay put which is unlikely so they make grabs for the KanTexHoma-6 to get to 18 which drops the XII to 12 so they grab Central Florida, Houston, BYU, Memphis, and Tulane for markets. Notre Dame being forced to join a conference goes to the XII.

PAC
Central - Kansas, Kansas St, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Texas, Texas Tech
Southwest - Colorado, Utah, Arizona, Arizona St, UCLA, USC
Northwest - Washington, Washington St, Oregon, Oregon St, Stanford, California

B1G
West - Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Northwestern
Central - Indiana, Purdue, Michigan, Michigan St, Ohio St, Penn St
East - Maryland, Rutgers, Virginia, North Carolina, Syracuse, Boston College

SEC
West - Texas A&M, Arkansas, Missouri, LSU, Mississippi, Mississippi St
Central - Alabama, Auburn, Kentucky, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Florida St
East - Florida, Georgia, Georgia Tech, South Carolina, North Carolina St, Virginia Tech

XII (or probably some new name)
West - BYU, Baylor, TCU, Houston, Iowa St, Tulane
North - Cincinnati, Louisville, Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Connecticut, Notre Dame
East - Memphis, Clemson, Miami FL, Central Florida, Duke, Wake Forest


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