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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 10:29 am 
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tkalmus wrote:
In the East and with Arky as a rival Mizzou plays its three closest schools geographically, Arky, Vandy, and Kentucky.


Meh. Lexington is 460 miles. Ole Miss is 472. And who cares? They fly everywhere anyways.


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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 11:13 am 
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tute79 wrote:
Say you added FSU and Texas. SEC would have succeeded in locking up a huge fan base with top-notch FB schools, and this would attract that many more eyeballs to SEC Network, etc.

A PROBLEM - as I see it, is that you have created a football monster (Assuming Texas returns to playing FB closer to it's historical level - LIKELY).
It may wind up being difficult to finish 10-2.... wil this hurt the confernece when the playoff is seeded ?




Yeah, but it would be fun to watch during the season. Let's not forget the regular season.


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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 2:47 pm 
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After the D1 lacrosse championship gave us full representation of the ACC in the determination of that champion, I think a "Super" SEC with Texas and FSU would produce 3 spots in a 4-bid football playoff. It's football on another realm at that point.

You reward the conference for a SOS that ridiculous. I pity the other three majors at that point (I assume B12 is toast without Texas), trying to get that other spot...although you might finally see some advocacy for a bigger playoff structure.


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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 3:52 pm 
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First off, I'm pretty sure Texas is a pipe dream for the SEC.

Secondly, if Texas was to come it would likely be with OU, which would shift Alabama/Auburn to the East and Mizzou to the West.

And finally, if the SEC added Texas and FSU/OU, 3 bids would be very rare if not impossible.

Two bids would be a near lock year in and year out but the third SEC team would have to be head and shoulders above not just one, but two of the three remaining conferences. While that could happen, the committee would still likely pass up the SEC #3 in order to give the PAC/B1G/ACC champ at #5 or #6 a bid as it would galvanize the rest of cfb against the system.

And the system will do whatever is in its best interest to protect its self, whether thats giving a 1-2 loss PAC/B1G/ACC school a bid over a 1 loss SEC school.

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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 5:22 pm 
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We can make our fun lists for new conference members with one's preferred candidates on down. When the UF President said the SEC would not expand to 16 unless the candidates are "ace jewels", and all indicators solidly suggest that would be the case. Now, how followers of expansion may define an 'ace jewel' could somewhat differ, the basic criteria is there.
It has to be the right school, at the right time, with the right circumstances. There's the politics with all the convincing involved, within and externally. Now, 'freedom to move' has become way more acute. Changing that situation, has to come before any actual movement involving big-timers.
The SEC has turned down a number of schools, some repeatedly. Some have expressed 'no' to the SEC before. No match, don't fret, move forward and find the right fits. Those that really want the SEC shall make it known. Situations with Texas, Oklahoma, FSU, and Miami, have been 'no go' in the past. We are not privy to all the conversations that went on at various times, but there are those that are 'realistic' possibilities, and those that are not, for a host of varied reasons.
If the SEC did want to expand now, there's not anyone available that they really want. The GoR stuff, along with things such as the Maryland-ACC lawsuits, are keeping major conferences in a holding pattern as to re-alignment/expansion.
There's enough information out there to firmly believe that the SEC's priority if further expansion happens is to find a footprint in the State of North Carolina, and possibly Virginia if circumstances ever allowed. The SEC is already doing groundwork in Charlotte as to the new SEC network/ESPN, Belk sponsorship, bowl considerations, etc.
The SEC will be patient, not to be seen as an over-zealous predator taking a risk. They have to wait for the timing.
The way things have been going in the ACC, GoR or not, I would not be surprised to see, in several years, one or two of their schools seeking re-assignment in a new super-division.


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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 8:09 pm 
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If and when the SEC decides to expand, I don't see them doubling down in any state other than Texas. Texas would be a great fit, but I don't see the other presidents in the league wanting to deal with the headache out of Austin. I think the SEC's top two picks would be Oklahoma and North Carolina. But I am not sure football will drive the next round of SEC expansion. I honestly believe that Slive wants the SEC to be as dominant in men's hoops as they are in almost every other sport. That is why I think Kansas might be in play. I know it is a terrible TV market, but KU basketball has national appeal. As does UNC. That being said, I wonder if Kansas would accept an invitation from the SEC. Would a potential BBall schedule of 1 or 2 games against Kentucky, Florida, UNC and Mizzou tempt them enough to leave the Big 12. If I had to rank the top 4 on the SEC wish list it would be UNC, Oklahoma, Kansas and Va Tech.


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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 9:42 pm 
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hendu1976fl wrote:
If and when the SEC decides to expand, I don't see them doubling down in any state other than Texas. Texas would be a great fit, but I don't see the other presidents in the league wanting to deal with the headache out of Austin. I think the SEC's top two picks would be Oklahoma and North Carolina. But I am not sure football will drive the next round of SEC expansion. I honestly believe that Slive wants the SEC to be as dominant in men's hoops as they are in almost every other sport. That is why I think Kansas might be in play. I know it is a terrible TV market, but KU basketball has national appeal. As does UNC. That being said, I wonder if Kansas would accept an invitation from the SEC. Would a potential BBall schedule of 1 or 2 games against Kentucky, Florida, UNC and Mizzou tempt them enough to leave the Big 12. If I had to rank the top 4 on the SEC wish list it would be UNC, Oklahoma, Kansas and Va Tech.


I think that is a very solid opinion. Most conferences expand because of football with markets and academic prowess (sometimes) as smaller gauges. Basketball is rarely a reason unless the school is both pretty good at football but mind-blowing in basketball. I'm thinking the Louisville to ACC move probably was fueled by basketball at least minutely. Looking at the SEC, do they really need another football power? With the Power 5 slowly, but surely, eliminating FCS matchups, the larger conferences will need some intra-conference cupcakes - looking at you Rutgers. Kansas is definitely not a football power. Other than that bizarre 2007 season, Kansas has been pathetic. The SEC football powers have a tough conference slate, but a school like Kansas would give them a win. Kansas would also boost their basketball tremendously. Image conference games between Kansas, Kentucky, Missouri, and Florida. Another thought I had was that I've heard people go back and forth about Missouri possibly jumping the gun if the B1G ever did come calling. Well bringing in their rival of all rivals (Kansas) would secure Missouri and the markets they bring (Kansas City and St. Louis.) As far as a #16, doubling down in Texas wouldn't be a bad option. I'd say Baylor because their football is definitely much, much improved and their basketball is very, very good. They are a "northern" Texas school and may help with the DFW market. If not Baylor then I would say Oklahoma St. Oklahoma is not leaving Texas by choice. Oklahoma St would have an opportunity to leave the Sooner shadow. Like Baylor, Oklahoma St is much, much improved in football and very, very good in basketball. I would discuss ACC options, but I feel like that has been done ad nauseam.


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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 10:14 pm 
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BePcr07 wrote:
hendu1976fl wrote:
If and when the SEC decides to expand, I don't see them doubling down in any state other than Texas. Texas would be a great fit, but I don't see the other presidents in the league wanting to deal with the headache out of Austin. I think the SEC's top two picks would be Oklahoma and North Carolina. But I am not sure football will drive the next round of SEC expansion. I honestly believe that Slive wants the SEC to be as dominant in men's hoops as they are in almost every other sport. That is why I think Kansas might be in play. I know it is a terrible TV market, but KU basketball has national appeal. As does UNC. That being said, I wonder if Kansas would accept an invitation from the SEC. Would a potential BBall schedule of 1 or 2 games against Kentucky, Florida, UNC and Mizzou tempt them enough to leave the Big 12. If I had to rank the top 4 on the SEC wish list it would be UNC, Oklahoma, Kansas and Va Tech.


I think that is a very solid opinion. Most conferences expand because of football with markets and academic prowess (sometimes) as smaller gauges. Basketball is rarely a reason unless the school is both pretty good at football but mind-blowing in basketball. I'm thinking the Louisville to ACC move probably was fueled by basketball at least minutely. Looking at the SEC, do they really need another football power? With the Power 5 slowly, but surely, eliminating FCS matchups, the larger conferences will need some intra-conference cupcakes - looking at you Rutgers. Kansas is definitely not a football power. Other than that bizarre 2007 season, Kansas has been pathetic. The SEC football powers have a tough conference slate, but a school like Kansas would give them a win. Kansas would also boost their basketball tremendously. Image conference games between Kansas, Kentucky, Missouri, and Florida. Another thought I had was that I've heard people go back and forth about Missouri possibly jumping the gun if the B1G ever did come calling. Well bringing in their rival of all rivals (Kansas) would secure Missouri and the markets they bring (Kansas City and St. Louis.) As far as a #16, doubling down in Texas wouldn't be a bad option. I'd say Baylor because their football is definitely much, much improved and their basketball is very, very good. They are a "northern" Texas school and may help with the DFW market. If not Baylor then I would say Oklahoma St. Oklahoma is not leaving Texas by choice. Oklahoma St would have an opportunity to leave the Sooner shadow. Like Baylor, Oklahoma St is much, much improved in football and very, very good in basketball. I would discuss ACC options, but I feel like that has been done ad nauseam.


Interesting point about Okie State. Good football and good basketball. Leaving behind the supposed big brother similar to Texas A&M. If the SEC were to go to pods you could have an old Big 12 pod of Mizzou, Kansas, Okie State and Texas A&M. LSU, Arkansas and the Mississippi's. Alabama, Auburn, Tenn, and Vandy. Kentucky, Florida, Georgia and South Carolina. With that lineup, I wouldn't be opposed to a 18 team league adding two more in a Virginia school and a North Carolina school(6 teams per division) and 9 conference games. You would play 5 division games and 2 teams in each of the other two divisions. 3 division winners and a wildcard (top ranked non division winner) play in a 4 team SEC playoff. The drawback is that it could knock a team out of the new playoff format.

SEC West: Kansas, Okie Stat, Texas A&M, Mizzou, Arkansa, LSU
SEC Central: Tenn, Vandy, Alabama, Auburn, Ole Miss, Miss State
SEC East: Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, UNC, Va Tech, Kentucky

In that lineup Kentucky and Kansas never win a divisional game unless the other team has a whole bunch of starters out.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 9:54 am 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
Weird as it is, I don't see Missouri being a west school. I think they're in a good place in the east...if they have to be somewhere before the Big Ten finally gives them a shot. :twisted:


What shall that do for your bandwagon for the two finest you see to head for the B1G? Think LAMAR and LIBERTY have a shot? ;)


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:19 pm 
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hendu1976fl wrote:
If and when the SEC decides to expand, I don't see them doubling down in any state other than Texas. Texas would be a great fit, but I don't see the other presidents in the league wanting to deal with the headache out of Austin. I think the SEC's top two picks would be Oklahoma and North Carolina. But I am not sure football will drive the next round of SEC expansion. I honestly believe that Slive wants the SEC to be as dominant in men's hoops as they are in almost every other sport. That is why I think Kansas might be in play. I know it is a terrible TV market, but KU basketball has national appeal. As does UNC. That being said, I wonder if Kansas would accept an invitation from the SEC. Would a potential BBall schedule of 1 or 2 games against Kentucky, Florida, UNC and Mizzou tempt them enough to leave the Big 12. If I had to rank the top 4 on the SEC wish list it would be UNC, Oklahoma, Kansas and Va Tech.


hendu1976fl, I generally agree with your thinking. What happens depends on how the dominoes fall and who moves first. What we do know basically, are the limited pool of schools that could potentially be involved.

NC State (if not UNC wo/w Duke) and Kansas (or Oklahoma State or KSU) in the SEC? In the drive to 16, some odd stuff could happen. Somebody among the PAC12, B1G, or SEC will make the next move.

The ACC is all hopeful on Notre Dame being full #15. But they may end up replacing one or two to get back to 14.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:19 am 
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BePcr07 wrote:
I'd say Baylor because their football is definitely much, much improved and their basketball is very, very good. They are a "northern" Texas school and may help with the DFW market.


A: Baylor football just finally got good again. Once their coach is offered a real position at a major school they will go back in the cellar where they've historically always been.

B: Waco is in Central Texas.
"Central Texas includes the Austin–Round Rock, Killeen-Temple-Fort Hood, Bryan-College Station, and Waco metropolitan areas."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Texas

I get what you're thinking, but Baylor is not nor will ever be a North Texas school, they have never sold out their alotment of ticket to the Tech game in DFW every year, in fact they sell so poorly that Jerry Jones and Texas Tech are trying to swap out the Baylor with Okie St.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:39 pm 
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Pretty confident in saying this, the University of Texas would be the only additional Texas school the SEC would find valuable and acceptable. So far, Texas has not wanted to join the SEC at all, and I expect the SEC has no current or near future effort to engage the matter further.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:54 pm 
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sec03 wrote:
Pretty confident in saying this, the University of Texas would be the only additional Texas school the SEC would find valuable and acceptable.


I think that's pretty much a fact. I heard TCU being tossed around there before their fortunes took them back to the Texas core of the Big XII, probably because of the football and baseball thing, but even that sounded a bit out there. Not that TCU wouldn't have added some sort of value...but that TCU would have been taken over any number of bigger schools. If TAMU and UT both went to the PAC, would the SEC have wanted a presence in Texas enough to go to a TCU, Baylor, or Tech?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:43 pm 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
sec03 wrote:
Pretty confident in saying this, the University of Texas would be the only additional Texas school the SEC would find valuable and acceptable.


I think that's pretty much a fact. I heard TCU being tossed around there before their fortunes took them back to the Texas core of the Big XII, probably because of the football and baseball thing, but even that sounded a bit out there. Not that TCU wouldn't have added some sort of value...but that TCU would have been taken over any number of bigger schools. If TAMU and UT both went to the PAC, would the SEC have wanted a presence in Texas enough to go to a TCU, Baylor, or Tech?

Probably not in response to the question. I've heard Houston brought up before by pundits during prior expansion activity, and Houston has certainly tried. Their chances would be even less now. Rice is interesting given that they are private-secular with very respectable academics. It's just Rice's fan base would need to be much more enhanced, and they need more sustained success in competitive sports. Frankly, schools such as Miami and WVU would have the better shots for the SEC compared to Baylor, TCU, SMU, or TTU.

What some others have conveyed that's been advanced previously by some bloggers and sports speculators is that UNC and UVA are candidates for the B1G and that VPI and NCSU are candidates for the SEC. That did not happen when those thoughts were batted around prior to the ACC's GoR being enacted and before the ACC-MD lawsuits turned hot. That would not have been the pattern even if a few left. Remember, the alleged offer from the SEC to UNC-Duke as a just in case factor?

Dislodging the North Carolina and Virginia schools for anywhere else would be years away if at all possible. It would take a heck of a lot, and I mean a heck of a lot B1G money for them to even think about it. There's much current resentment toward the B1G from those quarters anyway for coming in and extracting Maryland and being not so subtle about going further.

We need to keep in mind that the schools that left the B12 wanted to go. That's important. If Delany (and/or Slive for that matter) further approaches all this saying "we want you and you and now join", that yields pretty empty results as to schools who really are not interested in moving elsewhere.

FSU and GT are two ACC members that had complaints during the last several years and were willing to listen to offers. At one point, they possibly could have been gotten (if both were wanted) without the Virginia-N. Carolina prerequisites of moving first. It was rumored FSU did not have enough B1G votes a couple or so years back because they were not AAU designated.

NCSU has a little bit of that underappreciated little sister complex as it relates to the UNC-Duke duo within the NC4. Yet, it has not risen outwardly to the level of circumstances that Texas A&M displayed in their initiatives to leave the B12 for the SEC. So, perhaps the SEC may have a slight future window to NCSU that would not necessarily carry anyone such as VPI with it. And, it could be on the heels of schools such as FSU and/or GT moving as opposed to UNC and UVA departing. And comparatively, the B1G, if circumstances allowed, would probably have more success with enticing schools such as Pitt, Syracuse, and BC---schools the B1G dismissed considering before.

The ACC has some vulnerabilities we've all chatted about here and there. But at their core in the Carolinas (which includes Clemson w/o other good options) and Virginia, they are well bonded and seriously ACC committed.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:52 pm 
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sec03 wrote:
But at their core in the Carolinas (which includes Clemson w/o other good options) and Virginia, they are well bonded and seriously ACC committed.


I think they have administrators who are more favorable to the ACC than SEC, and presently, more ACC than B1G. Fans, boosters, and other stakeholders, otoh...

It was mentioned in one of the Swofford-FSU visit pieces after the GoR was secured that Swofford had something similar in VA to clear up with the GoR language that he then had to repeat (with more kowtowing) in Tallahassee. It sounded like it was in Charlottesville and not Blacksburg, which, is why I remember it (the shock value of UVA). While UVA (and FSU, for that matter) "fell in line," you have to wonder how "committed" the Cavaliers were. Faculty-wise, I doubt the ACC stands a chance at a lot of its schools. Athletics-wise, when you expand with programs that don't fill the stands or seats (which can be said for all of the schools its added since 2003/5 in one or both of the revenue sports), I think it adds to the legitimacy and realness of the concerns.

I don't doubt other ACC schools have looked at what's happening in Tallahassee...the tentpole athletic department for revenue in the ACC...and think, "screw this, we can do better elsewhere." The question is, from Virginia down to Atlanta, are the faculty, athletic directors, president, and board members in firm agreement to make a change? So far, only in UMD has that been the case (and they did so without student, alumni, and booster support...the other half). For a long while, the SEC apprehension has been a cultural and academic one. Where are the divides now?

Thanks for the Houston bit!


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