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 Post subject: Question about BYU?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 9:30 am 
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Do you think them being affilated with the Church of LDS has hurt them in becoming a BCS member? They have the tradition, support, money, and tv market.


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 Post subject: Question about BYU?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 12:53 pm 
Church affiliation has not hurt BYU in their quest to become a BCS team. Religion did not hold ND, SMU, and Boston College back from success, and will not hold Villanova back in a quest to become #9 in the BE at the 1A level if they choose to accept the challenge. BYU is an excellent school and in the past Levell Edwards built a great championship program. They have been a victim of time and location. When they were at the top there was not any conference expansion going on except for the activity with the MWC & WAC, and the B-12 whose primary expansion was purely to unite the B-8 with 4 of the SWC teams. As for the location aspect, the TV market has given them more exposure east of the Miss. R. with ESPN and Thurs. and Sat. football games since their championship year. BYU and Utah with their present success are in position and primed for further success if the Pac-10 expands or there is further
movement with teams in the B-12. Of course the MWC is having enough success at this time to gain a BCS birth in the future and both schools have a chance to dominate that conference so it might serve them well to stay right where they are. If the BCS is to survive the fat cats at the top (SEC, ACC, B-10, Pac-10, B-12, BE, and ND) are going to have to share the big money with at least one more conference and that will be the MWC in the future. C-USA is still trying to regroup and might get plucked again in a BE expansion move. Once their conference is secure and successful they should be in the BCS championship series also. Too much greed in five of the top six. The BE fought for their position and held on and the other conferences should continue their fight for a share of the Big Money Pie with legal or legislative action if need be.


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 Post subject: Question about BYU?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 1:29 pm 
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Pac 10 could easily kill off the MWC chances at a BCS bid if they pluck BYU and Utah. BE the same with CUSA.


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 Post subject: Question about BYU?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:17 pm 
I agree SportsKC, and the probability of that happening is relatively high in another major expansion move by the BCS confererence group. If you don't want someone to join you and share the pot of gold you eliminate them. Rather than a play off (which I am personally opposed to as I like the bowl system and wish it would play its championship games on NY's Day)
I believe that the major conferences will all go to 12 teams and a conference play off to eliminate undefeated teams at that level prior to bowl bids. I would rather see the 12 team conferences with divisions and conference play offs, and more OOC play during the season with the addition of the 12th game. The 2 highest ranked teams at the end of the season and the conference play offs would meet in a BCS Bowl NY's Day Eve to battle for number 1 to finish the season.


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 Post subject: Question about BYU?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 3:35 pm 
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Quote:

I believe that the major conferences will all go to 12 teams and a conference play off to eliminate undefeated teams at that level prior to bowl bids.


This might have worked in 2004 but it certainly wouldn't have helped in 2003 when USC was the odd man out of a group that all deserved a shot at the title even though none were undefeated. At a minimum any legitimate championship game should occur after the major bowls, pairing the 2 highest ranking teams remaining at that point.


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 Post subject: Question about BYU?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 3:51 pm 
I would like the Bowl System to settle the championship.
Grew up with it and love the NYD party. If there was only one game after the bowls on NYD, I could live with it but I still love the major bowls on NYD and the bowl system. Like I said I believe a 12 team conference system with championship games, and stronger OCC scheduling would reduce if not eliminate the "whose #1"
question. Thanks for the good in put Friarfan.


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 Post subject: Question about BYU?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 3:00 pm 

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Church affiliation has not hurt BYU in their quest to become a BCS team. Religion did not hold ND, SMU, and Boston College back from success, and will not hold Villanova back in a quest to become #9 in the BE at the 1A level if they choose to accept the challenge.


Right...

just like it wouldn't hold back Ben Stein State Jewish College or Osama Bin Laden State Muslim College.


I think there was the clear point made that the LDS is not a mainstream church. Moreover, it's clearly seen by the mainstream as an unorthadox, weird, and even off putting religion in general.

Obviously Catholic and Protestent Churchs aren't going to be hindered in the same way since they are the defacto standard in this country.

Now maybe you'd like to try again and focus on the question instead of side stepping it?


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 Post subject: Question about BYU?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 10:13 pm 
Catholicism was a contributing factor keeping Notre Dame out of the "Western Conference" (Big Ten) in the 1920s...


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 Post subject: Question about BYU?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:10 am 
No it wasn't it.
They didn't want to join plain and simple.


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 Post subject: Question about BYU?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 10:44 pm 
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Pac 10 could easily kill off the MWC chances at a BCS bid if they pluck BYU and Utah. BE the same with CUSA.


CUSA has BCS chances? I doubt CUSA will ever be a threat for a BCS bid, unless there is an unforseen change to the Automatic Qualification rules. CUSA is completely overlaped by bigger conferences in its home markets with too many weak football schools watering down its product.


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 Post subject: Question about BYU?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 11:19 pm 
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Quote:
BYU is an excellent school and in the past Levell Edwards built a great championship program. They have been a victim of time and location. When they were at the top there was not any conference expansion going on except for the activity with the MWC & WAC, and the B-12 whose primary expansion was purely to unite the B-8 with 4 of the SWC teams. As for the location aspect, the TV market has given them more exposure east of the Miss. R. with ESPN and Thurs. and Sat. football games since their championship year. BYU and Utah with their present success are in position and primed for further success if the Pac-10 expands or there is further
movement with teams in the B-12.


You raise some very good points about timing with regard to BYU. I'm kind of surprised the Big 8 didn't try to expand with BYU in the early 90's. BYU wasn't mature enough athletically in 1978 when the PAC-10 made its move to add Arizona and Arizona State. After BYU expanded their stadium from 30k to 60k in the early 80's and winning that national championship, they would have been a nice pick up for Big 8.

Don't know if the PAC10 will ever do to the MWC what the ACC did to the Big East. The PAC-10 already controls the entire West Coast in football and as a BCS conference the OSU, WSU schools of that league can tap into California while MWC schools really can't. A big difference between the MWC and the Big East is the Big East had two different schools which had recently played in national championships, and two more (Pitt, Syracuse) capable of landing the players to contend for one. Utah had a dream year in 2004 making it to a BCS game, but they can't get the players for a national championship to Utah. BYU wouldn't be able to win a NC in today's post season structure. TCU is a Louisville; they may be able to make a NC on a big year, but their ability to be a serious threat is still in question.

Really the comparison between the the new MWC and Big East amounts to:

Big East (Pitt, Syracuse, WVU. Louisville)
MWC (TCU, BYU, Air Force, Utah)

This is where the MWC is out matched.


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 Post subject: Question about BYU?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 8:20 am 
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Quote:

Quote:
BYU is an excellent school and in the past Levell Edwards built a great championship program. They have been a victim of time and location. When they were at the top there was not any conference expansion going on except for the activity with the MWC & WAC, and the B-12 whose primary expansion was purely to unite the B-8 with 4 of the SWC teams. As for the location aspect, the TV market has given them more exposure east of the Miss. R. with ESPN and Thurs. and Sat. football games since their championship year. BYU and Utah with their present success are in position and primed for further success if the Pac-10 expands or there is further
movement with teams in the B-12.


You raise some very good points about timing with regard to BYU. I'm kind of surprised the Big 8 didn't try to expand with BYU in the early 90's. BYU wasn't mature enough athletically in 1978 when the PAC-10 made its move to add Arizona and Arizona State. After BYU expanded their stadium from 30k to 60k in the early 80's and winning that national championship, they would have been a nice pick up for Big 8.

Don't know if the PAC10 will ever do to the MWC what the ACC did to the Big East. The PAC-10 already controls the entire West Coast in football and as a BCS conference the OSU, WSU schools of that league can tap into California while MWC schools really can't. A big difference between the MWC and the Big East is the Big East had two different schools which had recently played in national championships, and two more (Pitt, Syracuse) capable of landing the players to contend for one. Utah had a dream year in 2004 making it to a BCS game, but they can't get the players for a national championship to Utah. BYU wouldn't be able to win a NC in today's post season structure. TCU is a Louisville; they may be able to make a NC on a big year, but their ability to be a serious threat is still in question.

Really the comparison between the the new MWC and Big East amounts to:

Big East (Pitt, Syracuse, WVU. Louisville)
MWC (TCU, BYU, Air Force, Utah)

This is where the MWC is out matched.


You forgot Colorado State who has been the power between the BYU years and the recent success of Utah. They are a quality football team that would be #4 over Air Force.


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