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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2003 3:05 am 
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HERE'S MY TAKE ON PAC-10 EXPANSION AND IN REALITY ITS THE BEST FOR THE CONFERENCE BY FAR. TO EXPAND TO 12 TEAMS IS THE GOAL THE PAC-10 SHOULD HAVE.

THERE IS NO WAY THAT THE PAC-10 WILL "EVER" CONVINCE EITHER TEXAS OR COLORADO TO LEAVE THEIR COMFORT ZONE THERE IN THE BIG 12 CONFERENCE. SO, IT SHOULD HONESTLY LOOK ELSEWHERE.

I REALIZE THE THOUGHT OF HAVING BOTH BYU AND UTAH SOUNDS LIKE A NEAT IDEA BUT WHAT KIND OF TELEVISION MARKET DO THEY BOTH REPRESENT? YES, ITS TRUE THE MORMON MARKET COULD BE HUGE, BUT KEEP IN MIND, THE MORMON MARKET EXPANDS INTO "EVERY" TEAM IN EVERY CONFERENCE IN THE COUNTRY, NOT JUST TO THE 2 UTAH TEAMS AS MOST OF THE WORLD THINKS IT DOES.

MY THOUGHT IS TO GRAB THE 2 SCHOOLS WITH THE LARGEST TELEVISION MARKET AREAS, THE BEST FACILITIES AVAILABLE, THE 2 WITH CITIES THAT WOULD EASILY SUPPORT THE CONFERENCE IN ALL SPORTS, AND THE 2 SCHOOLS WITH A SOLID "POTENTIAL" TO BRING EXTRA BOWLS TO THE CONFERENCE.

THESE TWO SCHOOLS ALSO WOULD FIT PERFECTLY FOR A DIVISIONAL SPLIT IN THE NEW PAC-12 CONFERENCE.

...AND THESE 2 SCHOOLS ARE SAN DIEGO STATE AND UNLV, AND HERE'S WHY...

BOTH SCHOOLS ARE LOCATED IN THE LARGEST TELEVISION MARKETS AND LARGEST METROPOLITAN AREAS IN THE WESTERN STATES THAT ARE OUTSIDE THE CURRENT PAC-10 SCHOOL BOUNDRIES. BOTH SAN DIEGO CALIFORNIA AND LAS VEGAS NEVADA ARE 2 OF THE LARGEST CITIES IN THE COUNTRY AND ARE EXTREMELY PROGRESSIVE IN BUSINESS, POPULATION GROWTH AND BOTH HAVE LOTS OF $$$$.

BOTH SAN DIEGO STATE AND UNLV HAVE FIRST CLASS SPORTS FACILITIES. YES, UNLV FOOTBALL STADIUM WOULD NEED TO BE EXPANDED SOME, BUT THAT WOULD BE AN EASY TASK. (HECK, IF U-CONN CAN BUILD THEMSELVES A BRAND NEW 40,000 SEAT STADIUM IN ONLY THEIR 3RD YEAR OF DIVISION 1 FOOTBALL STATUS IN ANTICIPATION OF JOINING THE BIG EAST IN 2005, THEN SO CAN UNLV). PLUS, SAN DIEGO MAY GET A NEW STADIUM THEMSELVES SOON WITH THE SAN DIEGO CHARGERS LOOKING TO BUILD A NEW FACILITY AND ARE IN CURRENT TALKS WITH THE CITY OF SAN DIEGO, IN WHICH SAN DIEGO STATE WOULD ALSO PLAY. IF NOT, QUALCOMM STADIUM WITH ITS 62,000 SEATS IS STILL A WONDERFUL COLLEGE FOOTBALL VENUE.

BOTH SAN DIEGO (HOLIDAY BOWL) AND LAS VEGAS (LAS VEGAS BOWL) HAVE BOWL GAMES THAT THE PAC-10 IS ALREADY INVOLVED IN AND THOSE PARTICULAR BOWLS WOULD BE "THRILLED" TO HAVE THEIR LOCAL SCHOOLS HAVE A SHOT AT REPRESENTING THE NEW PAC-12 IN THOSE BOWL GAMES.

ALSO, SAN DIEGO STATE HAS IN PLACE WONDERFUL COACHING STAFFS FOR THIS KIND OF EXPANSION. COACH STEVE FISHER IN BASKETBALL, COACH TONY GWYNN IN BASEBALL AND OFFENSIVE WIZARD COACH TOM CRAFT FOR FOOTBALL. THE AZTECS VENUES ARE TOP RATE ALSO, WITH THE NEW 12,000 SEAT COX ARENA FOR BASKETBALL, NEW TONY GWYNN BASEBALL STADIUM, AND THE BEFORE MENTIONED QUALCOMM STADIUM.

LIKEWISE, UNLV'S THOMAS AND MACK CENTER FOR BASKETBALL IS TOP OF THE LINE AS IS THEIR OTHER SPORTS FACILITIES.

HERE IS HOW THE NEW PAC-12 WOULD BREAK DOWN INTO 2 GEOGRAPHICALLY SPLIT DIVISIONS:


NORTHWEST DIVISION:

WASHINGTON
WASHINGTON STATE
OREGON
OREGON STATE
STANFORD
CALIFORNIA


SOUTHWEST DIVISION:

ARIZONA
ARIZONA STATE
USC
UCLA
SDSU
UNLV


EACH DIVISION WOULD CONTAIN SCHOOLS FROM 3 WESTERN STATES. EACH WOULD HAVE AT LEAST 2 SCHOOLS FROM CALIFORNIA, AND BOTH DIVISIONS WOULD BE PERFECTLY DIVIDED FOR INTER-DIVISIONAL COMPETITION AND TRAVEL. DONT BELIEVE ME?, THEN LOOK AT A MAP. THERE ISN'T A BETTER GEOGRAPHIC SET UP FOR THE CREATION OF 2 DIVISIONS THEN THIS ONE.

FOR THOSE NAYSAYERS THAT SAY "HIGH" ACADEMIC STANDARDS THAT ARE CURRENTLY IN THE PAC-10 WOULD RULE BOTH SCHOOLS OUT, THEN ANSWER ME THESE SIMPLE QUESTIONS: WERE BOTH ARIZONA AND ARIZONA STATE'S INVITATION INTO THE THEN PACIFIC 8 CONFERENCE BASED ON THEIR ACADEMIC EXCELLENCE OR FOR THEIR GEOGRAPHIC FIT? , OR FOR THAT MATTER, DOES USC FIT INTO THE SAME "ACADEMIC" STANDARD AS DOES UCLA OR STANFORD? ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!

THIS NEW PACIFIC-12 CONFERENCE WOULD TRULY BENEFIT FROM THE ADDITION OF THESE 2 UNIVERSITIES, THEIR RESPECTIVE CITIES AND THEIR LARGE TELEVISION MARKETS.

THERE IS NO LIMIT TO WHAT THE CONFERENCE COULD DO WITH THE COMBINED FORCES OF THE WEST'S LARGEST CITIES AND TELEVISION MARKETS, ...IE:
LOS ANGELES, SAN DIEGO, SAN FRANCISCO, OAKLAND, SEATTLE, PHOENIX AND LAS VEGAS...AMONG OTHERS.

IT WOULD THEN TRULY DOMINATE THE WEST AND WOULD FURTHER INTRIGUE BOTH NATIONAL RECRUITING AND INTEREST IN THE CONFERENCE AND BOWL POSSIBILITIES.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2003 5:25 am 
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UMLV into the PAC-10 is a complete joke.The academic level of this school is so far from AAU Pac 10 members that this alone would make such a move totally without basis.The only schools that could be considered would be Utah and BYU.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2003 6:47 am 
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UMLV into the PAC-10 is a complete joke.The academic level of this school is so far from AAU Pac 10 members that this alone would make such a move totally without basis.The only schools that could be considered would be Utah and BYU.


Tigershark, you obviously know nothing about politics. Conservatives hate liberals and liberals hate conservatives. BYU is a conservative school and the Pac 10 is a liberal conference. Not gonna work boss.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2003 7:51 am 
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UNLV and SDST are at the bottom of the academic world.The schools like UCLA,Stanford and Berkley are not about to let schools such as UNLV or SDST in.Of course the best choices are UCOl and UTEXAS.However,I do not believe these schools are going to the PAC 10.My mention of BYU and Utah reflect sports and academics not politics or social belief.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2003 7:54 am 
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they ought to spread out their base..... add buffalo and troy state. that gets them in both the North and south east. should be great road trips and recruiting bases.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2003 10:25 am 
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Ok, that was d**n funny knightgood. ;D


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2003 10:34 am 
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Does anyone known if Utah could join witout BYU? That'd be a political firestorm in Utah, but if they could actually pull it off, the Pac 10 would only need one more team, and they could wait for some sort of shift in the BE and try to snag Colorado. I just think the state of Utah would go beserk if the Utes left the Cougars behind. Then again, if the Big 12 were still a going concerns minus a few members, I'm sure they'd make room for the Cougars. BYU has to be on the short list of teams that can actually convince a BCS conference to take them. They're just in a tough political situation.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2003 1:46 pm 
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i see all this "byu and utah to the pac 10" stuff and then all the "texas and texas a&m to the SEC" stuff and i wonder ... why not texas and texas a&m to the pac 10? bowl games in california and texas - all the recruiting bonuses for both sides - and the lucrative championship game. if approached, wouldn't the texas schools have to consider the possibilities? it's may be no better than the big 12 is for them, but it certainly is no worse. travel for these schools is not a major issue - and tv markets would be much better with texas added to the pac10 markets than what the rest of the bg 12 brings.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2003 3:27 pm 
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Quote:

Does anyone known if Utah could join witout BYU? That'd be a political firestorm in Utah, but if they could actually pull it off, the Pac 10 would only need one more team, and they could wait for some sort of shift in the BE and try to snag Colorado. I just think the state of Utah would go beserk if the Utes left the Cougars behind. Then again, if the Big 12 were still a going concerns minus a few members, I'm sure they'd make room for the Cougars. BYU has to be on the short list of teams that can actually convince a BCS conference to take them. They're just in a tough political situation.


Nothing connects BYU to Utah when it comes to conference decisions. Granted they would like to remain together since they are rivals, however that didn't stop BYU from considering an opening in the Big 12 before Texas Gov. Ann Richards pushed her school of Baylor in and BYU out.

I could see BYU heading to the Big 12 if they lost anyone. I could also see Utah heading to the PAC 10 without BYU.

CKS


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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2003 3:52 pm 
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EMUHuron,

That could work for Texas. Would make the faculty happier. Not sure about the football fans. They wouldn't be miserable, but the SEC would probably make them happier. Would be unbelievably great for the Pac 10 though. Lock in another fertile recruiting ground. Texas and Colorado would be their fantasy pair though.

CKS,

Didn't know that about BYU. I'd love to see BYU in the Big 12. I'm still fuming over their "national title," but they're fun to watch. WOuld be interesting to see what they could do with major conference affiliation aiding their recruiting. With their continuity on offense, they really only need a few blue chippers to make big strides. A BYU/Nebraska clash would be pretty cool.


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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 1:43 pm 
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Academics...

new markets...

two from the same state (preferably)...

would join if asked...

athletic pedigree, if possible.

How about Air Force and Colorado State?


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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 3:05 pm 
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Utah and BYU make the most practical sense here, but Dawgand Duck is right on...they (actually BYU) are not "politically tenable" to the Pac-10. They bring athletics/academics and a logistical fit that is the most amenable, but BYU will not be accepted by the greater group of the Pac-10.

Colorado has the best political fit with academics and athletics but they need a partner. Not certain if that is Colorado State or not. They would have to be lured from the Big 12 which is problematic.

The e-mail that suggests the perfect geographical fit of SDState and UNLV (AztecJeff) shows a lack of understanding of longstanding rivalries of the Pac-10! Sorry Aztec, but any split of the pac10 MUST have a southern division of ASU/UA, USC/UCLA, CAL/Stanfurd.

A number of years back a former AD of USC came in and dropped CAL off of USC's football schedule to pick up a national game with Oklahoma. USC alumni went nuts. The alumni of all the California schools look forward to a trip north or south every year.

So, UCLA/CAL/Stanfurd/USC always play each other in football. A split that seperates these schools results in a schedule much like what you see in the SEC where some schools play once every 5-10 years so you can keep traditional rivals playing every year.

Thus any expanded institution into the Pac-10 has to play in the Northern Division with UO/OSU/Wash/Wazzou. That's if you want a balanced football schedule. Your candidates are limited and look like they come out of Utah or Colorado.

Because of this I see no forseeable expansion in the Pac-10. 8-)


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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 8:06 pm 
AZTECJEFF, I agree, San Diego and Las Vegas make stong geographic sense. They are practical.
In some of the comments on this site, I wonder if some people ever bother to look at an atlas or map. One fundamental purpose of a conference is geographic compatibility (Miami is openingly speaking to this issue). Has some ever looked at how far Austin, Texas (or even Boulder, Colorado for that matter) is from places such as Los Angeles and Seattle? The PAC 10 reaches the boundries of Mexico and Canada as it is. Crossing the rockies and plains has to be a consideration in looking at schools in Big 12 country. TV markets is one thing; on the other hand, travel for fans, expenses for minor sports travel, and having border state rivalries and rational continuity are profound factors to examine.


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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 8:06 pm 
AZTECJEFF, I agree, San Diego and Las Vegas make stong geographic sense. They are practical.
In some of the comments on this site, I wonder if some people ever bother to look at an atlas or map. One fundamental purpose of a conference is geographic compatibility (Miami is openingly speaking to this issue). Has some ever looked at how far Austin, Texas (or even Boulder, Colorado for that matter) is from places such as Los Angeles and Seattle? The PAC 10 reaches the boundries of Mexico and Canada as it is. Crossing the rockies and plains has to be a consideration in looking at schools in Big 12 country. TV markets is one thing; on the other hand, travel for fans, expenses for minor sports travel, and having border state rivalries and rational continuity are profound factors to examine.


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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2003 6:25 am 
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Location: Dothan, AL for the time being.

Quote:
Utah and BYU make the most practical sense here, but Dawgand Duck is right on...they (actually BYU) are not "politically tenable" to the Pac-10. They bring athletics/academics and a logistical fit that is the most amenable, but BYU will not be accepted by the greater group of the Pac-10.

Yaaayyy!!! Someone actually agrees with me!!! ;D

Quote:

Colorado has the best political fit with academics and athletics but they need a partner. Not certain if that is Colorado State or not. They would have to be lured from the Big 12 which is problematic.

The e-mail that suggests the perfect geographical fit of SDState and UNLV (AztecJeff) shows a lack of understanding of longstanding rivalries of the Pac-10! Sorry Aztec, but any split of the pac10 MUST have a southern division of ASU/UA, USC/UCLA, CAL/Stanfurd.

A number of years back a former AD of USC came in and dropped CAL off of USC's football schedule to pick up a national game with Oklahoma. USC alumni went nuts. The alumni of all the California schools look forward to a trip north or south every year.

So, UCLA/CAL/Stanfurd/USC always play each other in football. A split that seperates these schools results in a schedule much like what you see in the SEC where some schools play once every 5-10 years so you can keep traditional rivals playing every year.

Hmm, this sounds vaguely familiar to a problem the ACC is facing right now with breaking up the North Carolina schools in expansion. Plus, there is a huge rivalry in every sport (college or pro) between the Bay Area and Los Angeles. Why that is I have no idea. The two areas have a lot more in common than they realize, with two key differences:
1. LA is the second largest city in the US (SF has always been jealous of LA because of this fact)
2. LA is in the news more than SF (see Hollywood).
Maybe that's why there's a rivalry? ???
Southern Californians will try to tell you that they're more conservative than northern Californians, but that's just a bunch of baloney, unless you're comparing San Diego to LA & the Bay Area. SD is very conservative in comparison to the rest of California.

Quote:

Thus any expanded institution into the Pac-10 has to play in the Northern Division with UO/OSU/Wash/Wazzou. That's if you want a balanced football schedule. Your candidates are limited and look like they come out of Utah or Colorado.

Because of this I see no forseeable expansion in the Pac-10. 8-)

Hmm, one could go with an oddball mix of Utah and UNLV, but I don't know how well that would sit with Utes or the Pac 10. UNLV would want to play UA, ASU, USC, etc, but if they had to play in northern division with UO, OSU, UW, I don't know if they would like that or not. ???


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