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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:27 am 
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Yeah -
They could add Houston to the South.
Add Boise State to the North for 14.
Otherwise you'd be looking at spitting up USC and UCLA....

If they suddenly tried to conspire and relegate Washington State, the law suits would fly immediately, and nobody needs that.
Plus that would really undermine the "all for one, one for all" mantra....

Houston is one long haul in terms of travel for any sport not called "football".
I think the PAC would do well to own the entire Mountain and Pacific Time Zones.
Go to 16 and add BYU, Colorado State, UNLV, Boise State (and split the conference east-west).

They struggle with viewership in the East, but they can carve out a niche of everything west of the Rockies
and hock up with a network that airs football late Saturday afternoon.
The PAC's TV problem is that they've let themselves get pigeon-holed by networks showing other games at 4 pm Eastern.
The PAC needs to offer a double-header of games at 4 pm Eastern (1 pm Pacific) and 8 pm Eastern (5 pm Pacific).
If Fox / ESPN are using those times slots for Big XII or Big Ten (CBS has the SEC game), then do a deal with NBC.
NBC owns the Notre Dame home games, but some of them are 1 pm Eastern kick-off....


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 9:32 am 
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I can understand the Pac-12's struggle with game times. There is only so often that there will be a lot of eyeballs on a game that starts at 10 or 10:30 on the east coast. Really, other than when the MLB playoffs are on, FOX should be able to show a doubleheader of college football every week, including at least one Pac-12 game. They could probably go to a tripleheader depending on the games that week and could get a lot of viewers. A 1:30/5:00/8:30 setup would work well for them as it would be offset enough to get many viewers, at the very least, tuning into the 4th quarter of their games.

As for NBC, I am surprised they haven't tried to pair the Notre Dame games with another college football game. Or show another game when they don't have a Notre Dame game on. Finally, I can't remember the last time Notre Dame had a 1pm kickoff. They are almost always 3:30 or 7:30 EST.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:12 am 
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I remember last year Notre Dame kicked off at 1 pm AT VIRGINIA.
(Virginia had that game won, but their stupid coach frittered it away with inexplicably bad "clock management").

That may not have been an NBC game.
Notre Dame is required to play 5 ACC opponents per season.
I guess NBC owns the home games and gets input on the kickoff times for those.
The away games may be at the discretion of the ACC home team.

Anyway, NBC owns perhaps 7 Notre Dame games, and probably wants them in prime time (to avoid conflicts with Golf).
I think most cable subscribers get the Golf Channel (they could slide Round 3 (Saturday) over there...
Even more cable subscribers get NBC Sports. I think the PAC could get into more homes via NBC Sports Channel (over cable & satellite)
than they apparently are NOT getting via PAC-12 network with their satellite TV agreement (is it ATT / Direct TV ?)


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 4:24 pm 
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Jon Wilner blog article(previously posted in another thread) discussing PAC 12 Networks/Sling TV deal at http://blogs.mercurynews.com/collegespo ... op-service


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:08 am 
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tute79 wrote:
I remember last year Notre Dame kicked off at 1 pm AT VIRGINIA.
(Virginia had that game won, but their stupid coach frittered it away with inexplicably bad "clock management").

That may not have been an NBC game.
Notre Dame is required to play 5 ACC opponents per season.
I guess NBC owns the home games and gets input on the kickoff times for those.
The away games may be at the discretion of the ACC home team.

Anyway, NBC owns perhaps 7 Notre Dame games, and probably wants them in prime time (to avoid conflicts with Golf).
I think most cable subscribers get the Golf Channel (they could slide Round 3 (Saturday) over there...
Even more cable subscribers get NBC Sports. I think the PAC could get into more homes via NBC Sports Channel (over cable & satellite)
than they apparently are NOT getting via PAC-12 network with their satellite TV agreement (is it ATT / Direct TV ?)


Yeah I am pretty sure the ND-UVA game was on ABC.

Like this past weekend, when there is golf it is moved to noon to accommodate Notre Dame (unless the Irish play at 7:30). This only happens a couple times a season I believe. And yes, the home games (and neutral-site ones) fall to NBC and the others would go to an ESPN network (unless it's at USC or Stanford; in that case FOX could pick it up).

It's true that NBC Sports could pick something up and run a game at noon (for a 3:30 ND start) or 3:30 (for a 7:30 ND start). I'm wondering if a lot has to do with the costs of picking up games worth showing. They could easily get a good portion of the Conference USA slate but would that be worth it for NBC? That's the question.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 6:01 pm 
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If laws haven't changed in the state of Washington, it actually IS illegal to split them up. The state legislature did that to get Washington State into the WIAA-soon-to-be-Pac-8 in the early 1960s.

As for Houston... I'm never inclined to base an expansion on one upset. I'd most certainly note that it seemed like someone would end up undefeated out of the A last year and nobody could manage that. It's not so amazing how easy it is for G5 college kids to start overlooking conference opponents after an upset like that. Not that I'm not tempted... just skeptical.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2016 12:03 am 
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I don't think you'll see expansion without the Big-12 breaking up and Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State coming over to the PAC-12. There's a couple of reasons. The PAC-12 would be looking towards a realignment not north-south, but east-west, and would need something to counterbalance California in the recruiting and viewership. The divisions would be as follows:

West - Washington, Washington State, Oregon, Oregon State, Cal, Stanford, USC, UCLA
East - Arizona, Arizona State, Utah, Colorado, Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State.

Without something to counter-balance California, there would be no way to continue the policy of all 4 California Schools playing eachother, without completely removing the North Division (other than Cal/Stanford) from playing against Southern California at all.

1. Houston - Won't happen. At best, Houston is the fourth best school in the state (behind Texas, Texas Tech, Texas A&M, possibly Baylor and TCU), and that would be where the conference would start with? I don't think that the PAC-12 would want to start there. Gets them virtually nothing.

2. Boise State - Not going to happen just for the very simple reason of Academics. I actually see the Big-12 eventually splitting up, and the MWC joining with the remains of the Big-12 to make a conference there. Boise State also doesn't have any sort of media market getting with them. Each of the teams have a media market, or share a media market. The current primary media markets are as follows: #2 Los Angeles (USC/UCLA), #6 San Francisco/Oakland/San Jose (Cal/Stanford), #12 Phoenix (Arizona/Arizona State), #14 Seattle (Washington/Washington State), #17 Denver (Colorado), #24 Portland (Oregon/Oregon State), and #34 Salt Lake City (Utah). The main media market for Boise State would be #107 Boise. That would be under these following cities that are within States that they already own: #20 Sacremento/Stockton/Modesto, #28 San Diego, #54 Fresno, #73 Spokane, and #89 Colorado Springs. So, to state that it would significantly add viewers is redicilious. It wouldn't add academics, either.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 9:41 am 
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Salt Lake Trib article(previously posted in another thread) with comments from PAC 12 Commish regarding league tv network and other issues at http://www.sltrib.com/sports/4391011-15 ... cott-talks


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 12:52 pm 
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Houston and SMU?

Dunstvangeet wrote:
West - Washington, Washington State, Oregon, Oregon State, Cal, Stanford, USC, UCLA
East - Arizona, Arizona State, Utah, Colorado, Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State.

But this looks good


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:03 pm 
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Huan wrote:
Houston and SMU?

Dunstvangeet wrote:
West - Washington, Washington State, Oregon, Oregon State, Cal, Stanford, USC, UCLA
East - Arizona, Arizona State, Utah, Colorado, Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State.

But this looks good


It does look good. But if you are Central Time Zone schools, do really want to be flying home from Washington or Oregon on a school night. Makes it much more difficult on your student athletes. If those schools were to leave the Big 12, wouldn't they want to go east? The Big 10 and SEC already have networks up and running (and carried by major providers).


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 11:57 am 
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Almost happened. Supposedly they were 30 minutes away, and it got de-railed, maybe over the LHN issues.

SINCE WHEN do the guys deciding this stuff care about the welfare of their student athletes ?
(If you think I'm cynical, I'll cite numerous examples)...
It's all about money !


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 5:56 pm 
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tute79 wrote:
Almost happened. Supposedly they were 30 minutes away, and it got de-railed, maybe over the LHN issues.

SINCE WHEN do the guys deciding this stuff care about the welfare of their student athletes ?
(If you think I'm cynical, I'll cite numerous examples)...
It's all about money !


Tute, was it TTU or A&M as the 4th addition? I can't remember which. Had A&M already bolted to the SEC when that was about to go down. My memory of the sequence of events is a little hazy. I also thought the Pac wasn't big on OSU's academics.

If it was all about the money wouldn't they make more money in the SEC or Big 10?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:44 am 
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My recollection is that before Colorado and Utah joined the PAC, there were proposals for 6 Big XII teams to go to the PAC.
Colorado, OU, OSU, UT, TAMU, and TT.

A&M got tired of Texas seeming to drive the bus, and got very upset about a rumor that the LHN would showcase Texas High School games.
This was seen as UT inducing featured HS players to come play for UT.
A&M and others thought this was unethical, and perhaps violated some NCAA recruiting rules.
UT and the LHN backed off on this, but A&M was fed up.
SO I think that led to A&M jumping to the SEC.

Somewhere in there, Nebraska left to become Big Ten #12, even though Missouri's governor had actively lobbied for the big Ten to approach Mizzou.

The PAC then invited Colorado and Utah to become the PAC-12.

The Big XII was in total chaos.
At this point there was yet another discussion about a PAC-16 involving UT, TT, OU, OSU making the move.
I think Boren (on behalf of OU and OSU) approached the PAC, and then UT and TT were brought into the discussion.
It would've required 9 of 12 votes of the PAC-12 members (Colorado and Utah would get to vote).
Some people at UT and OU claim they were "very close" or "30 minutes away" from a deal.
I think the 4 were negotiating with commissioner Larry Scott, and he then would have to sell the deal to the PAC-12 membership.
It didn't happen.
The post-mortem focused on 2 things.
they couldn't reach agreement on how the LHN would integrate with the PAC-12 network, and all the issues with division of TV $$$$,
and apparently at least 4 schools thought this merger would result in UT trying to dominate the management of the conference
(and apparently were hemming and hawing about buying into this PAC-16).
Larry Scott finally released a statement admitting to the proposal and said the PAC membership was not behind it.

So at this point, the remaining Big XII teams were REALLY feeling abandoned; namely - KU, KSU, ISU, Mizzou, and Baylor.
there was talk of them merging with the BE FB schools....
Pitt and Syracuse left for the SEC, but the be still had: UConn, Rutgers, WVU, Cincy, Louisville, USF, and a commitment to bring TCU on board.
FoxTV came to the rescue and threw a nice TV contract at the Big XII, if they would sign a GOR.

Meanwhile the SEC was looking for #14 and was reportedly focusing on WVU (who had recently won 2 BCS bowl games) and Missouri.
Mizzou (rejected by the Big Ten, and feeling somewhat abandoned by the Big XII South schools) leaped for the greener pastures of the SEC (team #14).
So the Big XII was down to 8, with A&M, Mizzou, Colorado, and Nebraska gone.
The Big East's BCS auto-bid was looking weak, due to their defections, and the Big XII invited TCU.
TCU had to eat an exit fee or maybe $5 million (they had not yet officially joined the Big East), to bail out and join the Big XII as team #9.
WVU then used their Oliver Luck connections (WVU AD, was formerly a Houston Oiler, and a Texas lawyer, who helped facilitate the construction of the Houston Texans stadium) to wrangle a Big XII invitation as #10. (they ended up coughing up something like $11 million to leave the BE).
Just before WVU's invitation was announced, some Kentucky politicians (maybe it was Mitch McConnell ?) tried to get Louisville invited instead,
The Big XII went with WVU. In retrospect, they should've invited WVU, Louisville and Cincinnati for 12.
Fox's TV agreement would've paid the extra 2 teams the same per school money, so the 10 schools would not have had to split their share.
But some forces wanted to stay at 10, and play a 9-game round robin, possibly because so many top-rated Big XII teams had been ambushed in the Big XII CCG...


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