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 Post subject: Kentucky to Big 10?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:23 am 
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I doubt it eithe but could there be any chance that Kentucky would join the Big 10 if asked? They have a rival in Indiana, Ohio State could be one. Any thoughts?


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 Post subject: Kentucky to Big 10?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:40 am 
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Interesting. Never gave much thought to that. There would surely be political issues involved.

But I'd think that it would be worthy of exploring if the Big 10 ever expressed interest. Simply put, the SEC doesn't have the strongest academic reputation and any school joining the Big Ten would get a boost in that area. But giving up the rivalries would be tough. Most people agree that the spot is sitting there for Notre Dame. Until there is a real need to expand to 12, 11 is the number. But I'd rather see Kentucky over any Big 12 schools other than Missouri.

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 Post subject: Kentucky to Big 10?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:09 pm 
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All b-10 current schools are AAU schools.All current contenders Missouri,Iowa St,Syracuse,Pitt and Rutgers are also AAU schools.Kentucky is not an AAU school by far.The b-10 schools have more in common than sports.Their common bond includes scholarship and research all at very high levels.


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 Post subject: Kentucky to Big 10?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:20 pm 
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I think Kentucky is fairly good academically. But TS2 is right about the Big 10. Although Norte Dame isn't an AAU school though. But it is a highly regarded academic institution and I beleive the Big 10 wouldn't think for a second not to invite Norte Dame just because they aren't an AAU school.

But, again Kentucky, despite not being AAU is a decent academic school.

For several years, about a decade (1980's) the University of Nebraska-Lincoln, an AAU school, had a Chancellor with a PhD from the University of Kentucky.

The Big 10 will not take a school outside of its footprint or only from a school located in a neighboring state of its footprint. So technically only schools existing in the following states are eligible:

Michigan
Ohio
Pennsylvania
Indiana
Illinois
Wisconsin
Minnesota
Iowa
New York
New Jersey
Delaware
Maryland
West Virginia
Kentucky
Missouri
Nebraska
South Dakota
North Dakota

This includes both Public and Private Universities.

Of all the schools that border the Big 10's footprint, these are the ones that are AAU:

Syracuse University
University of Pittsburgh
Rutgers University
University of Maryland-College Park
University of Missouri-Columbia
Iowa State University
University of Nebraska-Lincoln

I still think Norte Dame is the school that is on the Big 10's short and long list -- the only school in the Big 10's queue for membership expansion. After that in the distance is Syracuse, Missouri, and Pittsburgh.


Last edited by sportsgeogoffline on Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Kentucky to Big 10?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 12:50 pm 

Quote:
I think Kentucky is fairly good academically. But TS2 is right about the Big 10. Although Norte Dame isn't an AAU school though. But it is a highly regarded academic institution and I beleive the Big 10 wouldn't think for a second not to invite Norte Dame just because they aren't an AAU school.

But, again Kentucky, despite not being AAU is a decent academic school.

For several years, about a decade (1980's) the University of Nebraska-Lincoln, an AAU school, had a Chancellor with a PhD from the University of Kentucky.

The Big 10 will not take a school outside of its footprint or only from a school located in a neighboring state of its footprint. So technically only schools existing in the following states are eligible:

Michigan
Ohio
Pennsylvania
Indiana
Illinois
Wisconsin
Minnesota
Iowa
New York
New Jersey
Delaware
Maryland
West Virginia
Kentucky
Missouri
Nebraska
South Dakota
North Dakota

This includes both Public and Private Universities.

Of all the schools that border the Big 10's footprint, these are the ones that are AAU:

Syracuse University
University of Pittsburgh
Rutgers University
University of Maryland-College Park
University of Missouri-Columbia
Iowa State University
University of Nebraska-Lincoln

I still think Norte Dame is the school that is on the Big 10's short and long list -- the only school in the Big 10's queue for membership expansion. After that in the distance is Syracuse, Missouri, and Pittsburgh.


The Big Ten have already stated publically that they don't want Syracuse (travel, out of Big Ten map) and Pitt (because they have that market).


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 Post subject: Kentucky to Big 10?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:19 pm 
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Quote:


The Big Ten have already stated publically that they don't want Syracuse (travel, out of Big Ten map) and Pitt (because they have that market).


Where did you hear or read that?


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 Post subject: Kentucky to Big 10?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 7:51 pm 
Kentucky does play Indiana regularly and is close to several Big 10 schools.
I have never heard, though, Kentucky is unhappy in the SEC. While their football program most years dwells in the bottom half of the SEC, their bb program is a dominant force. If Kentucky was in the Big 10, maybe their football would have a bit more success in conference play, but that is subject to debate. Just as Kentucky gets dominated in fb by GA, FLA, and Tennessee in the SEC eastern division, they would be dominated by Michigan, OSU, and a couple of others in the Big 10.
Kentucky has strong rivalries with Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Georgia, and Louisville who is Out-of-conference, and, nearby Indiana in the Big 10, they seem to play frequently.



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 Post subject: Kentucky to Big 10?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 1:31 pm 
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I always thought they were too north for the SEC. Big 10 could use a bball addition to Michigan (one of the rare football & basketball powers) and Indiana.

And we've already established that parts of Indiana, Ohio, and Illinois are considered "southern" in culture, as well as Louisville being the "southernmost northern city". Kentucky is intertwined with the north almost as much as it is the south. And Lexington is pretty far north in the state. I always thought of Kentucky as a crossroads state moreso than really belonging to a specific region. West Va. and Va. are that way as well.

If you look at the map of where Lexington is, it's totally isolated in the SEC region. It's pretty level in latitude with Louisville and St. Louis. True it represents a state close to the heart of the region, but the school is pretty far away.

Now put it with Big Ten. Columbus and Bloomington are very close. Champaign and West Lafayette are not too far either. Even the Michigan cities are reasonable distance. The biggest stretch is Minnesota, which is far from most eastern Big 10 schools. But Gainesville and Baton Rouge aren't exactly neighbors to them either.

I'm not going to do this, but if one were to average the distances between U of Kentucky and Big 10 schools, and compare it to the distance average of SEC schools, the Big 10 would likely be lower.


Last edited by byufan227 on Mon Sep 06, 2004 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Kentucky to Big 10?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 2:09 pm 
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Although the academics would be attractive, as a Kentucky fan, the idea is just not imaginable. I don't think the B10 would be interested in UK either.

Interesting thought about the distances. Taking a quick look at it on a map, I would guess the average distance between Lexington and the B10 cities and Lexington and the SEC cities would be very similar, probably within 5% either way. But culturally, its a huge divide.


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 Post subject: Kentucky to Big 10?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 5:09 pm 
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"The Big Ten have already stated publically that they don't want Syracuse (travel, out of Big Ten map) and Pitt (because they have that market)."


Quote:


Where did you hear or read that?

He didn't. The Big ten never says such things publicly.
Such comments have appeared at times in articles by reporters who claim to be "in the know."


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 Post subject: Kentucky to Big 10?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 10:11 pm 
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Quote:
I always thought they were too north for the SEC. Big 10 could use a bball addition to Michigan (one of the rare football & basketball powers) and Indiana.



I'd rather take Syracuse. They have a far superior basketball program. Plus, they would cement the B10 into the densely populated Northeast market. Syracuse/Penn St contests could probably demand some TV play in New York City.

It only "sounds" like it's travel liability. It's actually closer to many B10 schools than Penn St is (eastern edge of Pennsylvania). There is a deep resentment that Penn St has to travel SO FAR and they lack a travel partner.

Syracuse is the likliest candidate. They add a new highly populated media Market (New York). They serve as Penn St's travel partner and keep the lions cemented in the B10 (can't have them wandering into the Big East). PLUS it defines the ENTIRE northeast region as BigTen recruitment territory.

The BigEast is a cobbled together Frankenstein league. Their basketball now extends to the Mississippi. They are collecting mid-majors (Cincy, Louisville) just to keep the bastard "Big East Football" league alive.

We all know that Syracuse WANTS out. They tried unsuccessfully to leave last year. My bet is that if the B10 finally wearies of NDs coiness, Syracuse will be in.



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 Post subject: Kentucky to Big 10?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 8:03 am 
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Upper NYS is not an area that the B10.The western schools of the B10 want Iowa St, or Missouri.ND does not want to become an equal member of the B10.What Syracuse needs is a program to fix up its football facilities and to hire a a big time hC.However,the financial base in Syracuse is very weak.The major industry in Syracuse is the university.


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 Post subject: Kentucky to Big 10?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 9:46 am 
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I think all BE FB members are keeping their options open to any further expansion (if their is any). I mean if the ACC, SEC, or Big10 came calling, those schools would probably jump at the chance to join them.

I'm not saying that those conferences will expand, I'm just saying that all FB members are open to leaving.

That being said, I think if the Big10 were to expand and it was NOT ND, it would be in their interests to take someone in the east rather than expand west or south.

PSU really needs a travel partner and needs someone for an end of year rivalry for football. The three schools I could see would be RU, SU, or Pitt. All have advantages and dissadvantages.

The Big10 would be centered in Indiana with 5 teams on each side with 2 in the center. I'm not sure how you'd split it up though.


Last edited by panthersc97 on Wed Sep 29, 2004 9:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Kentucky to Big 10?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 10:02 am 
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How you split is why I thought (and the Big 10 did in the mid 90s) a western team like Missouri made sense. However, when ND looked like they were going to accept I saw a post on a Big 10 board from someone who appeared to know what he was talking about saying it would be a north/south split:
North
Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota (3 big rivals), Michigan, Michigan St., Ohio St. (3 more big rivals)
South
Indiana, Purdue, Illinois, Northwestern, Penn St., Notre Dame.

The idea is to split up the Big 3 and get a rival for Penn St. So apparently the Big 10 is probably leaning toward an eastern school if they go to 12 without ND being #12. That would favor Syracuse. If Rutgers could get their act together in football, they would be the favorite. Pitt has the problem that they don't really add any market.


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 Post subject: Kentucky to Big 10?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 12:37 pm 

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Upper NYS is not an area that the B10.The western schools of the B10 want Iowa St, or Missouri.ND does not want to become an equal member of the B10.What Syracuse needs is a program to fix up its football facilities and to hire a a big time hC.However,the financial base in Syracuse is very weak.The major industry in Syracuse is the university.


Not true. Penn St has a large presence in upstate New York because they were long considered the major outlet for football on the East. Syracuse would be a natural rival for them. Syracuse has the Big10 level academics. Football may be somewhat limited with the Carrier Dome only seating 50k, but they make up for it with strong basketball support.

I never understood why the Big 10 just doesn't take the approach of adding Syracuse now, and if Notre Dame wants to join later they could always pair them with Rutgers for 14. Expanding from 11 to 12 with the addition of a championship game would have to be worth in my estimation.


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