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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:16 am 
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I put up with the constant posts of how all these teams were going to leave the ACC for the B1G. I am not interested in seeing nonsense about how the B1G is going to raid the SEC now. Moderators please make sure this is contained in the dream thread unless you believe it is a realistic possibility. And if you do I think it's time to find a new forum for me.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:17 am 
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SJSUFan2010 wrote:
I put up with the constant posts of how all these teams were going to leave the ACC for the B1G. I am not interested in seeing nonsense about how the B1G is going to raid the SEC now. Moderators please make sure this is contained in the dream thread unless you believe it is a realistic possibility. And if you do I think it's time to find a new forum for me.


I'm inclined to agree that it's whimsy, but...the Big Ten studied them. I think it's harder to fathom because they would break the contiguous "state thing" for a private school, especially one that has hardly ever been relevant in football. Who knows...but apparently, they generated some inerest to someone in the conference (again, maybe Gee).

---

In the wake of the approved nine-game conference slate and east-west division structure, seems like Purdue and Michigan State's games with Notre Dame may be jeopardized.

Either of these games being lost is bad news for the B1G. One can be miffed as much as one can be about constantly getting turned down or out-maneuvered by the Irish, but the loss of content from two mid-tier programs (and that's generous for Purdue), has to cost the conference something.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:40 am 
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I think its great for ND to be playing a real soft schedule.
They need duke,wake forest,bc and syracuse to be added to navy.

With regard to Vanderbilt they are the only private school in the SEC.While Florida and Missouri and Texas A&M are AAU schools,Vanderbilt could easily be joined with U kansas to give the B10 16 schools.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:53 am 
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Regarding comparison of Vandy to Maryland:

The Tennessee, Nashville, and upper mid South culture does not mesh with Midwest and Mideast culture nearly as much as Maryland/Baltimore/DC does. Today, Maryland has as much in common with Pittsburgh as it does with Raleigh. It's still a "Southern" state but demographics and culture are beginning to reflect just as much above Mason-Dixon as below. SEC is money is comparable with Big Ten so to speak. Vanderbilt is much more loved and seen as a brother to the SEC schools than those outside SEC culture may realize. There are no rivialries with Big Ten schools. Neither does Maryland I guess, but one could see Penn State or Rutgers mingling with the Terp folk a bit. In Nashville (of course there are SOME!!) who are the Commodore faithful to banter with and crow over in Nashville without a bunch of SEC foes? What besides academics do they share with Big Ten foes? Who will be their rival? Nashville is not Big Ten country. There is ZERO interest in joining the Big Ten. They'd be a Southern private school stuck in a Midwest Conference of large state universities (except NW) and all over a few more dollars. Right now, they can trash talk with their neighbors at the pre-game BBQ, gloat or cry eating their Sunday morning GRITS, be the smartest kid on the block and still make tons of cash. Why would they go to the Big Ten and give up 3 of those 4?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:00 am 
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OOps. I did think of ONE reason Vandy might join. Twenty years from now they would have twenty Big Ten Baseball Championship trophies.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:04 am 
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stevuscaticus wrote:
OOps. I did think of ONE reason Vandy might join. Twenty years from now they would have twenty Big Ten Baseball Championship trophies.

If they could stand playing BB at 36 degrees.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:16 am 
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SJSUFan2010 wrote:
I put up with the constant posts of how all these teams were going to leave the ACC for the B1G. I am not interested in seeing nonsense about how the B1G is going to raid the SEC now. Moderators please make sure this is contained in the dream thread unless you believe it is a realistic possibility. And if you do I think it's time to find a new forum for me.


You may be saying certain posts get away from realism. Certainly am in agreement with that. There have been posts expressing the B1G can take whomever they want. There's a mix of wishful thinking, B1G (and other) partisans, agitation, flawed perception, and ignorance of the facts. That said, there's some very good posters, very much including yourself, in this forum. (I've learned not to post when too tired or out of sorts :) . Some I don't agree with, but I respect those on the informed side. There's about a dozen or so that post regularly in this forum, that are darn well on top of it all. I look at some of the details some post about the mid-major and lower-grade conferences and get amazed at the deepness of speculation and analysis.

One can spend a lot of time showing why something is not going to happen. It doesn't stop others intent on sticking to a contrary line or a desire to inflame. We usually can get a bit reactionary at insults flung at a school and.or conference we support.

Vanderbilt is very secure in the SEC. They are not hurting being a member of the SEC. For what they contribute, they ride it nicely. Their prime rivalries are in the SEC,; and geographically, they are basically central to the conference. Playing Tenn., Ole Miss, Kentucky, Georgia, etc., is well-ingrained. Vandy has repeatedly denied interest in going elsewhere, including the long period they were so out-matched, particularly in fb. Talk of Vandy being a candidate for elsewhere has been chatted about for years without substance.

As to the B1G, I hope they don't lose their strong midwest identity by over-reaching and diluting the product. And there are limits as to whom they can over-reach with.

Not to deny the B1G values AAU and wants/requires all their members/new members to belong (recognizing also the situation with Nebraska). But it is not a monopoly, and certainly not the only factor each school and conference ponders when such decisions may be involved. The AAU is not an athletic organization either. McGill is Canadian, and some AAU members are null with athletics. If the B1G becomes 100% AAU, grand for them. But to carry the thought that every AAU school prefers to jump conferences and become a B1G member is not so. The ACC proved that. The B1G could certainly go for Rice and Tulane if that was the overwhelming criteria. The B1G has long sought ND who is not an AAU member; so the B1G itself is not so absolute on the issue. Interest in Notre Dame may be pointed to as the exception, but it is still makes an exception.


Last edited by sec03 on Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:23 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:21 am 
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westwolf wrote:
stevuscaticus wrote:
OOps. I did think of ONE reason Vandy might join. Twenty years from now they would have twenty Big Ten Baseball Championship trophies.

If they could stand playing BB at 36 degrees.



Only for early season road series in conference play ;)


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:52 am 
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stevuscaticus wrote:
Regarding comparison of Vandy to Maryland:

The Tennessee, Nashville, and upper mid South culture does not mesh with Midwest and Mideast culture nearly as much as Maryland/Baltimore/DC does. Today, Maryland has as much in common with Pittsburgh as it does with Raleigh. It's still a "Southern" state but demographics and culture are beginning to reflect just as much above Mason-Dixon as below. SEC is money is comparable with Big Ten so to speak. Vanderbilt is much more loved and seen as a brother to the SEC schools than those outside SEC culture may realize. There are no rivialries with Big Ten schools. Neither does Maryland I guess, but one could see Penn State or Rutgers mingling with the Terp folk a bit. In Nashville (of course there are SOME!!) who are the Commodore faithful to banter with and crow over in Nashville without a bunch of SEC foes? What besides academics do they share with Big Ten foes? Who will be their rival? Nashville is not Big Ten country. There is ZERO interest in joining the Big Ten. They'd be a Southern private school stuck in a Midwest Conference of large state universities (except NW) and all over a few more dollars. Right now, they can trash talk with their neighbors at the pre-game BBQ, gloat or cry eating their Sunday morning GRITS, be the smartest kid on the block and still make tons of cash. Why would they go to the Big Ten and give up 3 of those 4?


Well, you'd anger the shirt-fans...but Vandy's student body is not Southern by majority. Could that be the appeal? It's the same for schools like GT, UVA, and UNC; schools that are selective enough with diverse student bodies who hail from all corners of the country and disperse nationally (if not internationally) after their college education.

sec03 wrote:
As to the B1G, I hope they don't lose their strong midwest identity by over-reaching and diluting the product. And there are limits as to whom they can over-reach with.


Put me in the camp who thinks if Delany thinks nothing of value to the likes of Pitt, Syracuse, Kansas, and Missouri, then just to stop and let the future leadership reevaluate.

This doesn't even cover schools like UMOH and Buffalo who will never get a look in a million years but fit most metrics for inclusion.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:54 pm 
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Big 10 would like to go to 16.

Vanderbilt has little in common with vast majority of SEC schools.
They have a history in the SEC as well as a geography in the southeast.
However,their student body and alumni have little in common with most of the SEC.

I am not predicting that they are leaving the SEC for the B10.
However,the B10 investigated them for potential membership

I also think that U Kansas a current B12 member could be a feasible candidate for the B10.

The B10 is not intersted in all AAU schools,only those have a major sports program.

Pitt an AAU member does seem to be on the list for B10 evaluation.
The same is true for Iowa state another AAU member.

If the B10 went after both Vanderbilt and U Kansas they would likely become members of the western division of the B10 and Purdue would become a member of the eastern division of the B10.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:44 pm 
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I could see Vanderbilt making its way up to the B1G if the offer was right. However, the B1G is fond of contiguous states. If the B1G added Missouri and Vanderbilt, I see it being more plausible than Kansas, Iowa St, or Pitt. Hypothetically, if the B1G did add Missouri and Vanderbilt, I don't really see the SEC feeling obligated to expand back up to 14, but they probably would to somewhat keep up with the ACC and B1G. Who would they pick up? This is where I could see the XII GoR clause kick in that if at least 6 schools left the XII, the GoR wouldn't hold against those schools. We could see the SEC picking up maybe TCU (DFW market) and Oklahoma St (for 14), the PAC picking up Texas and Oklahoma (for 14), the ACC picking up West Virginia possibly. This would leave Kansas, Kansas St, Iowa St, Texas Tech, and Baylor. From these, may the B1G picks up Kansas/Iowa St (for 18), PAC picks up Texas Tech and Kansas St (for 16) and Baylor finds its way into the Mountain West.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:20 pm 
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The ACC just slammed the door in the B1G's face, so the B1G is now going to raid the SEC of their AAU schools?

So they want to try to mess with bigger game, maybe the very biggest game? I suppose taking Rutgers rendered visions of unlimited possibilities?

Checking out a school's demographics, endowments, sports history, attendance figures, etc., is not suggestive of a move. Conferences have been collecting data on certain non-member schools as a matter of routine in case transitions and opportunities emerge. Inquiries are not invitations, and invitations are not acceptances by the affected school.

The SEC is not expanding unless it involves Texas, UNC, UVA, or Oklahoma. UF President as much as said so. And, those schools are off the table, at least for now, to both the B1G & SEC.

The SEC would not take TCU; would drop in numbers first. They got who they wanted in Texas. And Okie State (maybe), but w/o OU, it would not even be on the SEC target list as a top backup choice. If the SEC had passed on opportunities to take FSU, Clemson, or Miami, they are not going to dip further down in the barrel when it is not needed or desired.

If the B1G has got to be 16 in a hurry, then they need to visit places such as Storrs, Conn., Philadelphia, and Cincinnati, OH (Gee & company would love that one).


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:59 pm 
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The ACC made the B10 expansion a bit more difficult but far from impossible.Does Kansas refuse a B10 offer?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:03 am 
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ctx48c wrote:
The ACC made the B10 expansion a bit more difficult but far from impossible.Does Kansas refuse a B10 offer?


The spotlight's never really been off the Big XII, even with signing the deal and syncing the GoR. They have room to grow and other revenue matters they need to address (the CCG), and if they can't expand within the next year or two, I suspect you may just see one or two of these schools squeezing through a window that's written into the media deal and GoR. The most obvious candidates look like Texas and Oklahoma, but I think Kansas and West Virginia are just as likely to potentially peel off.

Taking the Machiavellian approach, I think you work on BYU and Cincinnati if you're the Big XII, because those two become the "big fish" or bridge of any future lesser major conference.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:35 am 
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Probably right there, Cutter on the B12.
I was reading a fairly recent interview Bowlsby was giving to a West Virginia press source. While he acknowledged and sounded sympathetic to WVU's travel concerns, he also kept emphasizing how pleased the conference was functioning at 10 members. My thought was, you can't have it both ways.
When WVU was leaving the old BE, they were thrilled to have gotten acceptance into a top conference, any top conference. When travel and geography was brought up at the time as a potential issue, both the school and conference indicated it was not a big worry, they can deal with that, and it is a minor concern given the overall benefits the relationship shall bring.
Now, for example, WVU complained about playing mid-week (think bb) at TCU, then flying back at 5am to Morgantown; then fly back 48 hours later to Baylor which is only about 2 hours away from Ft. Worth. Travel fatigue (with expense) can impact on certain team sports.

I can understand why WVU fans would like a better conference deal. And the ACC, with their arrogance, missed the boat on not taking WVU. Whether such would have done much to have kept Maryland is unclear. Cash-strapped Maryland got some incentive (don't want to term it a bribe) from the B1G, disguised as an undisclosed travel line item, to exit the ACC.
Not being privy to B12 conversations, it is hard to say why the B12 is being very conservative about further expansion now.
Reasons presented include:
1. No real desirable schools are available. Were waiting/hoping for the ACC to break.
2. Texas rules, and Texas can control all with the "1O".
3. They'll wait and see how the playoff picture fully unfolds, and whether or not, not having a CCG hurts.
4. No new additions available will enhance the revenue distributions to each school.
5. Adding new members shall make certain current members more eager to leave.
6. They had 12 before, and it led to defections by unhappy schools.

I can't see schools such as Baylor, TCU, Iowa State; and maybe Kansas State, Oklahoma State and Texas Tech, without great tag-along options, willing to vote to break the GoR . Even WVU would not, unless they were promised something better further east. That said, it could be tested. But I don't see a conference with a similar GoR of their own, going after another school in a GoR. It could weaken their own GoR if successful.

I agree, schools such as BYU, Cincy, UConn, etc., may be the real expansion pool for the major conferences right now.

I am not fond of the G0R concept and the outrageous exit fee stuff. If a school wants to leave and pays 'reasonable costs' and gives a decent notice, let them go. On the other hand, predatory expansion, whereby coercion is involved, is troubling also. As long as big discrepencies in revenue distributions exist, such shall happen.

Somebody may find a way to test this GoR stuff. It could happen in the B12. That ACC one, what's known about it, is even more vicious.


Last edited by sec03 on Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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