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Big Ten Realignment & Expansion Thread
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Author:  jlog3000 [ Sat May 04, 2013 7:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Ten Realignment & Expansion Thread

tute79 wrote:
Somehow we missed this -

Big Ten had a vote and approved new names for divisions (no more "Legends" and "Leaders", it'll be "East" and "West"), and the 14-team alignment will have both Michigan schools + Indiana in the East, both Illinois schools + Purdue in the West.....

this had been tentatively stated earlier, but it has now been officially approved by Big Ten Presidents.


http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nc ... e/2119055/


This seems official. But putting this topic aside, I just hope that the ACC would follow the same format just like the Big TEN just has. For the ACC, it should be more like North/South instead of East/West, but it'll depend on the conference to think this over.

Author:  sec03 [ Sat May 04, 2013 7:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Ten Realignment & Expansion Thread

ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
tute79 wrote:
Somehow we missed this -

Big Ten had a vote and approved new names for divisions (no more "Legends" and "Leaders", it'll be "East" and "West"), and the 14-team alignment will have both Michigan schools + Indiana in the East, both Illinois schools + Purdue in the West.....

this had been tentatively stated earlier, but it has now been officially approved by Big Ten Presidents.


http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nc ... e/2119055/


This seems official. But putting this topic aside, I just hope that the ACC would follow the same format just like the Big TEN just has. For the ACC, it should be more like North/South instead of East/West, but it'll depend on the conference to think this over.


In theory and some practicality, I agree with you, ncaano--a, per the ACC. But they have some unique issues. The stronger ACC fb programs are mostly on the southern side. The State of NC with four schools in the ACC, have some schools outside of NC preferring more diversity in scheduling if they would be stuck with having to play most, or all of them, regularly in a division. How Notre Dame is rotated in with 5 games is another factor to resolve. When the ACC added former BE schools in 2003 or so, they were trying integrate the new additions with the full conference's geography. I suppose there are pros and cons with any model, but some sort of north/south model, if they can make it work well, could be the best for the long-term.

Author:  jlog3000 [ Sat May 04, 2013 7:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Ten Realignment & Expansion Thread

sec03 wrote:
ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
tute79 wrote:
Somehow we missed this -

Big Ten had a vote and approved new names for divisions (no more "Legends" and "Leaders", it'll be "East" and "West"), and the 14-team alignment will have both Michigan schools + Indiana in the East, both Illinois schools + Purdue in the West.....

this had been tentatively stated earlier, but it has now been officially approved by Big Ten Presidents.


http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nc ... e/2119055/


This seems official. But putting this topic aside, I just hope that the ACC would follow the same format just like the Big TEN just has. For the ACC, it should be more like North/South instead of East/West, but it'll depend on the conference to think this over.


In theory and some practicality, I agree with you, ncaano--a, per the ACC. But they have some unique issues. The stronger ACC fb programs are mostly on the southern side. The State of NC with four schools in the ACC, have some schools outside of NC preferring more diversity in scheduling if they would be stuck with having to play most, or all of them, regularly in a division. How Notre Dame is rotated in with 5 games is another factor to resolve. When the ACC added former BE schools in 2003 or so, they were trying integrate the new additions with the full conference's geography. I suppose there are pros and cons with any model, but some sort of north/south model, if they can make it work well, could be the best for the long-term.


You have a point right there Sec. But it would be manageable if the ACC can find a 16th member and having Notre Dame to play football in the ACC (making the Irish' longtime status as an D-I FBS Independent to an end), which it would eventually lead to this format:

ACC North: Boston College, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Louisville (replacing Maryland), Virginia, Virginia Tech, Notre Dame (with football in conference play) and an 8th team (whether it should either be UConn, Cincinnati or West Virginia)
ACC South: The Carolina schools (UNC, Duke, NC State, Wake Forest), Clemson, Georgia Tech, and the Florida schools (Florida State and Miami)

Author:  ctx48c [ Sat May 04, 2013 10:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Ten Realignment & Expansion Thread

The North Division could be called the old BE.

Author:  Notsellingjeans [ Sun May 05, 2013 1:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Ten Realignment & Expansion Thread

Quote:
You have a point right there Sec. But it would be manageable if the ACC can find a 16th member and having Notre Dame to play football in the ACC (making the Irish' longtime status as an D-I FBS Independent to an end), which it would eventually lead to this format:

ACC North: Boston College, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Louisville (replacing Maryland), Virginia, Virginia Tech, Notre Dame (with football in conference play) and an 8th team (whether it should either be UConn, Cincinnati or West Virginia)
ACC South: The Carolina schools (UNC, Duke, NC State, Wake Forest), Clemson, Georgia Tech, and the Florida schools (Florida State and Miami)


That's my long-term hope for the ACC, as a fan. The country clearly prefers logical geographic divisions, as proven by the Big Ten reaction to Legends/Leaders. I'd make one change to the above, however - the program the ACC should target for #16 is Navy football only. Slim as it may be, thats their best chance of getting a future 8-game full commitment out of Notre Dame.

Author:  jlog3000 [ Sun May 05, 2013 1:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Ten Realignment & Expansion Thread

Notsellingjeans wrote:
Quote:
You have a point right there Sec. But it would be manageable if the ACC can find a 16th member and having Notre Dame to play football in the ACC (making the Irish' longtime status as an D-I FBS Independent to an end), which it would eventually lead to this format:

ACC North: Boston College, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Louisville (replacing Maryland), Virginia, Virginia Tech, Notre Dame (with football in conference play) and an 8th team (whether it should either be UConn, Cincinnati or West Virginia)
ACC South: The Carolina schools (UNC, Duke, NC State, Wake Forest), Clemson, Georgia Tech, and the Florida schools (Florida State and Miami)


That's my long-term hope for the ACC, as a fan. The country clearly prefers logical geographic divisions, as proven by the Big Ten reaction to Legends/Leaders. I'd make one change to the above, however - the program the ACC should target for #16 is Navy football only. Slim as it may be, thats their best chance of getting a future 8-game full commitment out of Notre Dame.


Then either Army or Navy should be that football-only member to complete (plus either having UConn, Cincy or West Virginia).

Author:  sec03 [ Sun May 05, 2013 6:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Ten Realignment & Expansion Thread

Comments from Mich. AD on the topic of expansion from the Detroit Free Press, May 5, 2013.

http://www.freep.com/article/20130505/S ... ve-Brandon

Author:  The Bishin Cutter [ Sun May 12, 2013 3:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Ten Realignment & Expansion Thread

sec03 wrote:
Comments from Mich. AD on the topic of expansion from the Detroit Free Press, May 5, 2013.

http://www.freep.com/article/20130505/S ... ve-Brandon


When the "for now" speech comes out, it sounds like there's a few schools still having discussions with the conference. And I think that could always be the case. There are many schools out there just like Rutgers who would love to be in the conference and have impressive academics and desirable markets, if just not worthy of absorption through membership by themselves.

For the B1G, at this point, it's lacrosse. They'll want JHU. If they can't get them, they'll try to get one of their own to field a team. If that doesn't happen...there's your #15 or #16 all-sports member.

Author:  westwolf [ Mon May 13, 2013 11:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Ten Realignment & Expansion Thread

Bad weekend for State of Maryland lacrosse. For the first time JHU didn't make the tournament, and for the first time none of our schools survived the first round. Loyola coach had a brain fart which cost the Greyhounds a victory over Duke.

Nonetheless, I'd like to see other B1G schools pick up lax to go along with UMD, Ohio St and Michigan.

Author:  TKthunder [ Mon May 13, 2013 11:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Ten Realignment & Expansion Thread

westwolf wrote:
Bad weekend for State of Maryland lacrosse. For the first time JHU didn't make the tournament, and for the first time none of our schools survived the first round. Loyola coach had a brain fart which cost the Greyhounds a victory over Duke.

Nonetheless, I'd like to see other B1G schools pick up lax to go along with UMD, Ohio St and Michigan.

Rutgers and Penn St have LAX, they just need 1 more to get the auto-bid which is why John Hopkins was rumored to be invited as in as a LAX only member.

I broke it down on the LAX thread...

B1G LAX: Michigan, Ohio St, Penn St, Maryland, Rutgers & TBD...
ACC LAX: Notre Dame, Syracuse, Virginia, North Carolina, Duke & TBD...
Big East LAX: Gtown, Nova, St Johns, Providence, Marquette & TBD...
NEC LAX: Robert Morris, Mt St Mary's, Wagner, Sacred Heart, Bryant & TBD...
All one team shy of the automatic bid...

Author:  Fresno St. Alum [ Mon May 13, 2013 4:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Ten Realignment & Expansion Thread

tkalmus wrote:
westwolf wrote:
Bad weekend for State of Maryland lacrosse. For the first time JHU didn't make the tournament, and for the first time none of our schools survived the first round. Loyola coach had a brain fart which cost the Greyhounds a victory over Duke.

Nonetheless, I'd like to see other B1G schools pick up lax to go along with UMD, Ohio St and Michigan.

Rutgers and Penn St have LAX, they just need 1 more to get the auto-bid which is why John Hopkins was rumored to be invited as in as a LAX only member.

I broke it down on the LAX thread...

B1G LAX: Michigan, Ohio St, Penn St, Maryland, Rutgers & TBD...
ACC LAX: Notre Dame, Syracuse, Virginia, North Carolina, Duke & TBD...
Big East LAX: Gtown, Nova, St Johns, Providence, Marquette & TBD...
NEC LAX: Robert Morris, Mt St Mary's, Wagner, Sacred Heart, Bryant & TBD...
All one team shy of the automatic bid...

Detroit fits well as an affiliate in the B1G
Johns Hopkins in the ACC
Hobart in the NEC
Fairfield in the MAAC(their actual conf) how can they not be in that?
A-Sun: Mercer, Jacksonville, High Point, Furman, Richmond, VMI (needs to be renamed SoCon, 3 members, 1 ASC, 1 BSC, 1 A10)

That would leave Denver, AFA, Bellarmine as Indy. Bellarmine could fit in the BE.
Denver, AFA could fit in the BE or B1G.

Author:  The Bishin Cutter [ Tue May 14, 2013 8:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Ten Realignment & Expansion Thread

If the ACC can land Hopkins, it will be a huge black eye for the B1G. And it will get the ACC back into the Beltway for a sport that's insanely popular in that region. And the thing is, both JHU and the ACC don't rely on AQ because they're already so strong!

It would really only leave Hobart as the cleanest to absorb, or Bellarmine. Neither are exactly "hot picks," although Hobart's one of those old salts you have to love.

I know who the B1G would love to have if they'd ever consider going full D1/FBS...Cornell. File that one in the "never happens" cabinet. Although, it does get brought up from time to time on forums...much, I'm sure, by other Ivies looking to take a jab at good ole "SUNY Ithaca."

I have to wonder if Marquette stands a chance for potential inclusion, just for its lacrosse. I know the B1G is so much against this associate membership thing, but I still wonder how happy Marquette will be over the long run in the "Big East." When expansion candidates favor more eastern schools, and the western members are the likes in Ohio, Indiana, and Nebraska...DePaul's the only thing making it easy for them.

Author:  hickory_cornhusker [ Tue May 14, 2013 11:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Ten Realignment & Expansion Thread

The Bishin Cutter wrote:
If the ACC can land Hopkins, it will be a huge black eye for the B1G. And it will get the ACC back into the Beltway for a sport that's insanely popular in that region. And the thing is, both JHU and the ACC don't rely on AQ because they're already so strong!

It would really only leave Hobart as the cleanest to absorb, or Bellarmine. Neither are exactly "hot picks," although Hobart's one of those old salts you have to love.

I know who the B1G would love to have if they'd ever consider going full D1/FBS...Cornell. File that one in the "never happens" cabinet. Although, it does get brought up from time to time on forums...much, I'm sure, by other Ivies looking to take a jab at good ole "SUNY Ithaca."

I have to wonder if Marquette stands a chance for potential inclusion, just for its lacrosse. I know the B1G is so much against this associate membership thing, but I still wonder how happy Marquette will be over the long run in the "Big East." When expansion candidates favor more eastern schools, and the western members are the likes in Ohio, Indiana, and Nebraska...DePaul's the only thing making it easy for them.


I can't see Marquette joining the Big Ten for lacrosse. If the Big East is smart that'll kick out Marquette for everything if they join the Big Ten for lacrosse. Marquette will never be picked up by the Big Ten for everything. Where does Marquette go from there?The MVC is the only real possibility. The AAC probably wants to avoid anything even closely resembling a hybrid model like the plague and Marquette was a key player in leaving those schools behind so the AAC wouldn't want them. The ACC (I know a real long shot) wouldn't take them because the best reason for the ACC to take them right now is for the lacrosse team which won't be there if Marquette lacrosse joins the Big Ten. The MAC probably won't take them without football, plus Marquette would be the only private school. The Horizon League is out because most Marquette alums would rather shut the school down than be in the same conference as UW-Milwaukee, it's bad enough they have to be in the same city.

Author:  tute79 [ Tue May 14, 2013 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Ten Realignment & Expansion Thread

If Lacrosse is a big deal to the leaders of the new Big East, they can use it as leverage during expansion, and let St. Louis, Dayton, VCU, Richmond
know that starting up a Lacrosse program that could be the league's 6th team would be looked on very favorably...

Author:  Quinn [ Wed May 15, 2013 3:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Ten Realignment & Expansion Thread

i think we can simplify the lacrosse situation:

1) Lacrosse is not going to be a real factor in Big5 conference expansion. There just isn't the money there to make lacrosse a real factor in a conference picking a school. For instance, the Big Ten would only add UNC, Duke, UVA as schools that have D1 lacrosse.

2) Conferences with their own networks can do just as well sponsoring lacrosse with 5 members than they would with 6. So if the Big Ten or ACC wanted to add programing to their network, they would have the games on. And the school with the best conference record is named the conference champion or #1 seed in a 4 team tourney to decide the champion (giving the network 3 higher value games than the regular season).

The only benefit to having 6 or more members is having an auto-bid. But a lacrosse autobid means little to nothing to say, the ACC who will get at least 1 school in each year. Going forward, with 5 members, I'd still expect 2 ACC schools getting bids each year.

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