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PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:06 pm 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
Stirring the pot again, Dodd says the Big Ten isn't done expanding.

UMD's Loh said as much that his school was part of a big plan. I doubt it just meant them and Rutgers.

Can't help but think the B1G is tired of the PAC's waffling and isn't going to wait anymore for what they do out there. It wasn't the Big XII schools who walked from the PAC, and it wasn't the B1G who walked from B1G-PAC.

Here's the quote from Dodd since its pretty deep in the story...

"Big Ten expansion: It isn't done. That's about all I can say. Hint: The conference will begin negotiating on a new TV deal next year. The current contract expires in 2016. Definitely stay tuned."

Unless he's targeting a non BCS school like UConn, or an SEC school like Kentucky, Vandy, or Mizzou...all other conferences now have a GOR in place (though I'm not 100% on the ACC since it had some weird stipulations related to revenue/TV deal and possibly a network) so I'm not sure how this would come about, though if any conference would be willing to test a GOR I bet it would be the Big Ten w/ Delaney's ego thinking about his legacy...

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:30 pm 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
Stirring the pot again, Dodd says the Big Ten isn't done expanding.

UMD's Loh said as much that his school was part of a big plan. I doubt it just meant them and Rutgers.

Can't help but think the B1G is tired of the PAC's waffling and isn't going to wait anymore for what they do out there. It wasn't the Big XII schools who walked from the PAC, and it wasn't the B1G who walked from B1G-PAC.


Big Ten expansion is going to require SEC cooperation. Jim Delany can't single handedly pluck away ACC schools at will without Mike Slive taking a few for his conference in order to incite panic and get things moving.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:38 pm 
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From what I read on the GoR, and each may be a little different, is that not only revenue could be withheld from the school, but that the TV network broadcasting a game involving the departed school could be sued for the disbursements that would go to the school. The amount could be higher over the violation of terms.

Outside the ACC and Big12, the SEC has no 'ace jewels' (UF President's term), if they wanted to expand with a couple. The B1G would have a couple of options, but certainly nothing near the ambitious targets they were alleged to have pursued earlier.

Is this super-group (5 conferences) intending to separate out and then re-organize into four? If so, it would seem the Big12 would be the conference that would be broken up in such as situation. I say this, not because they are less quality than the ACC, but because they are in the middle of the country with fewer members. The ACC could do nothing for the PAC12 directly.

Could the B12, in this, strike a deal with the other 4 and nullify their own G0R? Hypothetically, in a great compromise for bigger bucks, the PAC12 takes Texas, TTU, and an Oklahoma school (for 15 and needing another for 16). The SEC agrees on OU or OSU (for their own 15, and needing one more--Kansas State?). The B1G takes at least Kansas, but would also need to accept Iowa State; thus 16. The ACC takes WVU along with a full commitment from ND; thus 16.

The thinking would be, the sacrifices on accepting certain schools are for the good of the new order and more mega-bucks from TV. The networks may love it.

B12 conference schools could go along with the split-up if it means security and more profit.

But a problem with this scenario. Who would want Baylor and Texas Christian? None of the other 4 probably. Don't know the rules on what it takes to break the GoR, but 8 out of 10 schools could be enough. Of course Baylor would sue. Would it be "welcome to the AAC" TCU & Baylor? Would that be fair though, when the Wake Forests' and BCs' stay a part of the new order?
And what about those schools on the outside that may deserve inclusion such as BYU? Talking about money here, not religion as much.

OK, a conspiracy theory here. But I would put the possibility a tad above the dream conference stuff.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:54 pm 
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sec03 wrote:
Is this super-group (5 conferences) intending to separate out and then re-organize into four? If so, it would seem the Big12 would be the conference that would be broken up in such as situation. I say this, not because they are less quality than the ACC, but because they are in the middle of the country with fewer members. The ACC could do nothing for the PAC12 directly.

Could the B12, in this, strike a deal with the other 4 and nullify their own G0R? Hypothetically, in a great compromise for bigger bucks, the PAC12 takes Texas, TTU, and an Oklahoma school (for 15 and needing another for 16). The SEC agrees on OU or OSU (for their own 15, and needing one more--Kansas State?). The B1G takes at least Kansas, but would also need to accept Iowa State; thus 16. The ACC takes WVU along with a full commitment from ND; thus 16.

The thinking would be, the sacrifices on accepting certain schools are for the good of the new order and more mega-bucks from TV. The networks may love it.


It might be a bit of a dream but its not an awful idea. It would require the Big Ten to really take one for the team if they got stuck with Iowa St and Kansas St. If the Big 5 broke away and formed "division 4" as a single entity (rather than existing as independent conferences and pooled all of their resources and revenue as well as negotiated media deals as one group similar to the NFL) I could see them possibly re consolidating into 4 leagues.

Big Ten gives the ACC Maryland, Rutgers, and Penn St
SEC gives the Big Ten Missouri
ACC gives SEC Louisville

PAC 12 adds Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, and Oklahoma St
Big Ten adds Iowa St, Kansas, Kansas St, and Notre Dame
SEC adds WVU and Baylor/TCU

The end result is 4 relatively balanced conferences of 16. This would only happen if they were sharing all the money which I doubt would ever happen but if this group of 64 could somehow function as one league they could make a fortune and have a monopoly on college football-- naming their price for tv rights.


Last edited by fighting muskie on Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:09 pm 
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sec03 wrote:
From what I read on the GoR, and each may be a little different, is that not only revenue could be withheld from the school, but that the TV network broadcasting a game involving the departed school could be sued for the disbursements that would go to the school. The amount could be higher over the violation of terms.

Outside the ACC and Big12, the SEC has no 'ace jewels' (UF President's term), if they wanted to expand with a couple. The B1G would have a couple of options, but certainly nothing near the ambitious targets they were alleged to have pursued earlier.

Is this super-group (5 conferences) intending to separate out and then re-organize into four? If so, it would seem the Big12 would be the conference that would be broken up in such as situation. I say this, not because they are less quality than the ACC, but because they are in the middle of the country with fewer members. The ACC could do nothing for the PAC12 directly.

Could the B12, in this, strike a deal with the other 4 and nullify their own G0R? Hypothetically, in a great compromise for bigger bucks, the PAC12 takes Texas, TTU, and an Oklahoma school (for 15 and needing another for 16). The SEC agrees on OU or OSU (for their own 15, and needing one more--Kansas State?). The B1G takes at least Kansas, but would also need to accept Iowa State; thus 16. The ACC takes WVU along with a full commitment from ND; thus 16.

The thinking would be, the sacrifices on accepting certain schools are for the good of the new order and more mega-bucks from TV. The networks may love it.

B12 conference schools could go along with the split-up if it means security and more profit.

But a problem with this scenario. Who would want Baylor and Texas Christian? None of the other 4 probably. Don't know the rules on what it takes to break the GoR, but 8 out of 10 schools could be enough. Of course Baylor would sue. Would it be "welcome to the AAC" TCU & Baylor? Would that be fair though, when the Wake Forests' and BCs' stay a part of the new order?
And what about those schools on the outside that may deserve inclusion such as BYU? Talking about money here, not religion as much.

OK, a conspiracy theory here. But I would put the possibility a tad above the dream conference stuff.


I'll put what i think on the Big 12 below but because this is a Big Ten thread, if getting Kansas and Iowa St is the end game then that sucks for them.

In my opinion, they are either after Texas, Oklahoma, and quite possibly Kansas, but then they'd have to take a lesser Big 12 school like Texas Tech or a non-Big12 school like UConn to get to 18 (Iowa State, K State, OK State are not getting in; they might take Texas Tech as a way to get Texas but that as low as they'd go to get the Horns)...

Or after the ACC schools we already know about, UNC, UVA, FSU, GT and possibly a Duke, Syracuse or BC (but not Pitt) all of course in hope of landing ND.

If they don't land one of the bolded schools above then their post Nebraska expansion will look pretty sad...Maryland (okay...), Rutger (meh), Iowa State (HA), Kansas (okay...), UConn (meh)

Now if they landed Kentucky or Vandy from the SEC it would be huge, while those school aren't fb greats they are both baseball and basketball greats and would give the impression the the Big Ten is better than the SEC, and while they aren't on the same level as the bold schools above the impact of the move would be profound.


Now on the B12...

If the they can break the GOR w/ 7 (over 3/4ths vote which I've seen but cannot confirm if fact) the PAC12 would simply have to get the ACC to take WVU, then it could take UT, TT, OU, OSU, KU, and KSU and leave behind the private schools nobody would be interested in TCU/Baylor (AAC) and the lackluster Iowa St (MAC) and would not need help from the SEC or Big Ten (both which would only really be interested in Texas/OU/KU and possibly tag-a-long Tech). Plus if we look at the PAC12's options after TX/OK (Mizzou/Ark/LSU/A&M in SEC; Neb/Iowa/MN/WI in Big Ten) they really would have no where else to go other than grabbing non AQs from the MWC so why leave a prime bball powerhouse AAU school in major market (KC) out for the SEC/B1G to snatch up especially when the have KSU which is just as good if not better than as ASU/OrSU/WSU/Utah. Plus adding another two Central Time Zone schools (for a total of 6) will give them more branding and access to those early kickoff spots which the PAC12 can't really fill currently at 10am local time which would help them bump up their future TV value and the number of possible P12 network game broadcasts (for all sports).

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:43 pm 
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If the ACC raiding thing isn't working out and it's partly because the SEC won't cooperate they could definitely go the Big 12 route--Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, and to spite the SEC--Missouri.

This would accomplish a lot for the Big Ten in Jim Delany's master plan to dominate college football:

The PAC 12 can't expand without going for MWC schools and/ or schools below their academic standards.

The SEC will be compelled to raid the ACC to keep pace AND Delany just embarrassed them by stealing one of their members. Further irritating the SEC will be the fact that they probably will have to take some of those instate rivals (FSU and Clemson) they have been trying to keep at arms length.

The Big 12 is left weakened from the Big Ten raid and the ACC is left weakened by the SEC raid.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:16 am 
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I think Gordon Gee tipped the B1G's hand. See my June 10th post.

11:49: “I would see potentially Missouri and Kansas (for the B1G).
By the way it goes without saying this all has to be speculation that remains right here.
And I could also see a T that goes south all according to what happens with the ACC, but we need to be ready to move.”

I think Missouri is the top target.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:34 am 
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What makes the perception of GoR so impenetrable is just how much money an institution will likely definitively lose through agreeing to give the conference its media rights. But it isn't fully ironclad. Not even the B1G's, which isn't synced to any media deal, and is further layered by the BTN buy-in. The ACC, like the Big XII, has openings in their GoR that are specifically linked to any media deal renogitations. I never believed this was as locked-down as people suggested saying we were good for the next decade or so. This may be as singly solvent as one school saying they want out during the first look-in. We just don't know.

And who knows...maybe this is why the Big XII is so emphatic about its ten-member status. If any addition, one or one hundred, forces the renegotiation, then maybe it produces the "hole" in which a school can exit.

And really, I think this is only applying to three schools: Kansas, Missouri, and Vanderbilt. Or, maybe this is a call for more associate members (ice hockey).


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:02 am 
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Wish lists are wish lists. All I see is the B1G has not retracted from the effort; and if the old one (ACC) failed, then imply you (the B1G) may be trying for an even more difficult one (SEC). That's suppose to be revenge at the SEC along with telling them they cannot read? Why highlight that you got out-foxed by what you see as the illiterate?
There's zero evidence the B1G has any inroads to getting Mizzou (that ship did sail to the displeasure of some), Vandy, or Kentucky (as some contiguous link not really wanted except for bb prominence) or anyone else in the SEC. The B1G keeps trying to land Notre Dame with all kinds of initiatives, another bee under Delany's and retired Gee's bonnets. I think ND belongs in the B1G from long ago, and perceive that these major conferences continue to help enable ND's fb independence and special deals. The SEC gave no deal (other than the SEC can share the blame for the old BCS criteria and giving ND a direct seat at the new playoff table) to ND and voted 14-0 by fb coaches to deliver a statement on it. Where's the B1G's symbolic action on this other than Gee's utterances? Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, and others in the B1G were huge enablers of ND for many years for their own perceived benefits, and cooperated with ND about officiating and hockey among other matters. You sign-on to a bowl, even as an opponent, whereby ND has a tie-in with another conference, that's tacit acceptance of ND's unique status.
For the SEC, perhaps not having a GoR is a sign of strength, not weakness. Maybe the B1G should drop their own if they are indeed the ultimate masters of college sports. Their expansion capabilities, as with others, are limited too, though there is some apparent denial in some quarters. Not everyone wants to be a part of a largely, upper midwestern conference, even thou their money (BTN, huges stadiums, media loving, etc.) is enticing for so many not in solid financial situations.
Personally, I have no issue with the BIG trying for their goals. But if they run into barriers and dissenters who think otherwise, showing disdain for those that did not cooperate isn't getting them anywhere. I'm more bothered that they didn't stand behind Penn State in a constructive way.

The SEC has been turned down in past decades by FSU and Texas, and other attempted dances could have failed (approach to Miami back then). They just moved on down the list of possibilities. If the BIG was truly after UNC, UVA, GT, and ND; and could not achieve that on their own, then the incentives fell short. Simply as that.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 6:59 am 
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I don't know where Kentucky even came from. Before Gee blasted them (and the SEC in general), they never appeared anywhere, it seemed. Did the supposed study containing Vanderbilt create Kentucky's candidacy by way of the "contiguous rule?"

Quite honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the B1G was talking to Tennessee. Remember that Maryland was in the red financially? Ditto for the Vols.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:06 pm 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
Quite honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the B1G was talking to Tennessee. Remember that Maryland was in the red financially? Ditto for the Vols.


Would be wasted time.

If the Rocky Top 102,455 (plus) seat Neyland stadium that is often packed, plus SEC payouts, can't keep UT well afloat, sounds like a lot of mismanagement.

Tennessee has had much controversy with coaching changes and other athletic issues. Apparently they are being very aggressive with recruiting. How many times we've seen a program's new aggression and then see more trouble follow?
Anyway, Rivals.com has them at #1 so far for 2014 due to the significant number of 4-star recruits. They are a blogger darling some places.
But shall they torch some bridges in the process? Perhaps see this as one new tidbit:

http://www.thestate.com/2013/08/01/2893 ... essee.html


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:31 pm 
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Thoughts from NJ/Rutgers on D. Dodd's earlier comments.

http://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/index ... oming.html

Is the B12's GoR water-proof and sound-proof? B1G wants 16 for 2016 tv deal whereby negotiations start in 2014?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:54 pm 
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sec03 wrote:
Thoughts from NJ/Rutgers on D. Dodd's earlier comments.

http://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/index ... oming.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Is the B12's GoR water-proof and sound-proof? B1G wants 16 for 2016 tv deal whereby negotiations start in 2014?


Grabbing Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri, and Texas would be awesome if Delany can pull it off.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:01 pm 
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sec03 wrote:
Thoughts from NJ/Rutgers on D. Dodd's earlier comments.

http://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/index ... oming.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Is the B12's GoR water-proof and sound-proof? B1G wants 16 for 2016 tv deal whereby negotiations start in 2014?

From what I've seen the Big 12's GOR is as strong a the B1G/PAC12's (modeled after B1G's), only the ACC's supposedly has some sort of qualifying clauses based on TV payout which hasn't been met yet (was dependent on a network or other like revenue stream) which one could argue means its not active at the moment thus thus the B1G can poach.

Now I've also read that these GORs are only as strong as their perception is and as soon as 1 schools breaks one (through mutual agreement w/ conference or in court) then they all will be subject to similar terms (similar to the MD exit fee lawsuit, if settled for say $30mil then that effectively becomes the new exit fee for UNC or FSU), therefor if the Big Ten (which likely doesn't fear being poached) may weaken its own GOR by breaking the ACC's or B12's and thus open the door for the PAC12/SEC or ACC/B12 raiding each other.

Still that blog and the comments below are funny, the ACC w/ UNC/UVA/GT are on lockdown but the Big 12 w/ Oklahoma/Kansas/Texas are not? Shows the quality of knowledge of the author/commentors...

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:07 pm 
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fighting muskie wrote:
sec03 wrote:
Thoughts from NJ/Rutgers on D. Dodd's earlier comments.

http://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/index ... oming.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Is the B12's GoR water-proof and sound-proof? B1G wants 16 for 2016 tv deal whereby negotiations start in 2014?


Grabbing Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri, and Texas would be awesome if Delany can pull it off.


It would but then I'd be interested to see how they'd divide up the conference.

West w/ Northwestern and East w/ Illinois?

But still I assume the 18 is not the end game...20 most likely is if you pick up to in the East then you have a straight split with both Illinois and Indiana in the West.

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